The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[KDawg]

Glad people are putting some respect on that man’s name.

[skinny21]

Yeah, I’m pretty confident Howell’s gonna work out.  Has the baseline attributes you need in a qb - arm strength, accuracy, work ethic, and football IQ, in addition to the more “luxury” attributes - athletic, great deep ball thrower, drive to improve and being a quick study.

 

With that said, 2nd offense in 2 years, the staff might be replaced next year, his oline is potentially sketchy, and the division’s a tough one, so it could be tough sledding in the short term, which leads to more of an unknown as to how things work out for him in the long haul.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I’m pretty confident Howell’s gonna work out.  Has the baseline attributes you need in a qb - arm strength, accuracy, work ethic, and football IQ, in addition to the more “luxury” attributes - athletic, great deep ball thrower, drive to improve and being a quick study.

 

With that said, 2nd offense in 2 years, the staff might be replaced next year, his oline is potentially sketchy, and the division’s a tough one, so it could be tough sledding in the short term, which leads to more of an unknown as to how things work out for him in the long haul.

He'll have top notch WRs and OC, but yeah the OL is a big time concern. Bad OLs have been the downfall of many a young QB.

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

Glad people are putting some respect on that man’s name.

 

 

A Birdman reference in the QB thread.

[RandyHolt]

On 5/8/2023 at 6:14 PM, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I’m pretty confident Howell’s gonna work out.  Has the baseline attributes you need in a qb - arm strength, accuracy, work ethic, and football IQ, in addition to the more “luxury” attributes - athletic, great deep ball thrower, drive to improve and being a quick study.

 

With that said, 2nd offense in 2 years, the staff might be replaced next year, his oline is potentially sketchy, and the division’s a tough one, so it could be tough sledding in the short term, which leads to more of an unknown as to how things work out for him in the long haul.

Dont let me banging the drums to draft a QB every year until we find one fool anyone. I like Sam and support him and any QBs we draft. Sam's in a tough spot for the reasons you stated but he was one thing going for him (which is nice) - he doesnt have the expectations of a top round pick. As a 5th no one expects him to succeed (ignoring me and the extremist masses here) so he has no pressure. He'll have far more pressure from the vaunted defensive fronts of the modern day NFL D who attack attack attack. If he can avoid the dreaded deer in the headlights that would be a great first step to development this season.  Getting our run game scheme (zone IIRC) and myriad of OL into their optimal places will also be yuge for him.  Finally, I don't want EB to overload the playbook for him and maybe even more so for our OL. One blown assignment....splat.

Edited May 9, 2023 by RandyHolt

[skinny21]

16 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Dont let me banging the drums to draft a QB every year until we find one fool anyone. I like Sam and support him and any QBs we draft. Sam's in a tough spot for the reasons you stated but he was one thing going for him (which is nice) - he doesnt have the expectations of a top round pick. As a 5th no one expects him to succeed (ignoring me and the extremist masses here) so he has no pressure. He'll have far more pressure from the vaunted defensive fronts of the modern day NFL D who attack attack attack. If he can avoid the dreaded deer in the headlights that would be a great first step to development this season.  Getting our run game scheme (zone IIRC) and myriad of OL into their optimal places will also be yuge for him.  Finally, I don't want EB to overload the playbook for him and maybe even more so for our OL. One blown assignment....splat.

Tough dlines in our division too.  And good point about pressure/expectations, although Howell doesn’t strike me as a guy that let’s pressure get to him, lol.

 

I reread my post, and I probably should have clarified that by “work out”, I mean he’ll show to be a capable qb (though possibly more).  Franchise, high end qb?  Who knows… the odds are pretty heavily against that.  So I agree about keep trying at qb.  With that said, I have no qualms about not going that route this year - let the next regime pick at that thread, Ron needs/needed to be focused on the short term (as long as he isn’t/wasn’t hurting the long term).

[KDawg]

40 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Tough dlines in our division too.  And good point about pressure/expectations, although Howell doesn’t strike me as a guy that let’s pressure get to him, lol.

 

I reread my post, and I probably should have clarified that by “work out”, I mean he’ll show to be a capable qb (though possibly more).  Franchise, high end qb?  Who knows… the odds are pretty heavily against that.  So I agree about keep trying at qb.  With that said, I have no qualms about not going that route this year - let the next regime pick at that thread, Ron needs/needed to be focused on the short term (as long as he isn’t/wasn’t hurting the long term).

There was no real need to go that route this year. Howell is a better prospect than Hooker, so using high 1/2 draft capital on a guy who projects (key being projects, not set in stone) to be your backup QB when you have Brisset significant reduces the “need” value of the QB position. 
 

People will contest this, but I think Howell is a better prospect than Levis, too. Though I expect pushback there. And I’d understand it. Physically Levis is much more prototypical and in the mold of a franchise guy. He can also run. I’d argue he was less successful than Howell as it pertains to reading the field, decision making and health. But I can see the argument there.

 

In this class I would have had Howell in the QB2–3 range. Probably below Young, though Young also has size concerns and those are greater than Howell’s. In line or slightly below Stroud. Not sure. Haven’t put a lot of thought into that. Physically lesser than Richardson in virtually every way but a much more proven and better QB.

 

I think I could make a convincing case he was QB2 in this class in MY view. 
 

This is where “but he wouldn’t be because he went in the 5th round” people chime in. But I’m talking about my rankings. So save that.
 

The only need at QB this off-season were 1. Bonafide, proven or high level franchise quarterback, 2. Backup/competition.

 

We filled 2. One wasn’t available. We did the “right” thing there… (in my opinion).

[HigSkin]

Good listen...

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

[Die Hard]

9 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

 

Sam’s legs are not a weapon, but they’re still an asset. They’ll get him out of trouble a couple of times a game and give him some additional time to make plays down field.

 

Im all in on Sam. I think he’ll be a top 10 QB in this league. There will always be guys that are more dynamic and have game breaking traits… but I think Sam has most of what you need to win.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Die Hard

[Koolblue13]

20 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

Sam’s legs are not a weapon

Yes they are. You don't need to be Lamar or Watson for your legs to be a weapon. He's Hurts light.

[Die Hard]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes they are. You don't need to be Lamar or Watson for your legs to be a weapon. He's Hurts light.

 

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes they are. You don't need to be Lamar or Watson for your legs to be a weapon. He's Hurts light.

Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts were 2,3,4 in QB rushing in 2022 with 760 yards.

 

 

[GardenStateSkins]

Take away Sam is a 5th round pick and watch him play. Does he look like a 5th round pick? I don't think so, granted what we have seen is minimal. However what I saw is a QB with the smarts, arm strength and leadership that could propel this offense...especially with the weapons we have. My concern is the O line to a point any QB behind them will have their work cut out for them. We really need Robinson and Gibson to stay healthy and pound the rock and keep opposing D's on their heels and not storming the castle on every down. We also have WR's that can easily stretch the field and there is no question about Sam's arm strength...he can sling it and sling it accurately. The thing he needs most is experience and if he starts off a little rocky I have faith in him and what this offense can do. 

[Koolblue13]

Nice try, but I'm not falling for that again. I almost quoted your post, but I'm not getting banned for that **** again. 

 

828 yards and 11 TDs, yep, not a weapon.  Maybe watch Howell play football. He belongs in that group.

[Bifflog]

Remember way back when, before [REDACTED] got gunshy about taking off into a soft area for 6-8 yard gain, how useful that was?  Sam is gonna chew those up much more effectively.

 

And on occasion, he's gonna shake a guy and turn it into a big run, because he has vision and a kinda good stutter move.

[Die Hard]

27 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Nice try, but I'm not falling for that again. I almost quoted your post, but I'm not getting banned for that **** again. 

 

828 yards and 11 TDs, yep, not a weapon.  Maybe watch Howell play football. He belongs in that group.

Jalen Hurts’ legs are weapons. They’ve always been since his collegiate career. We don’t disagree here. His ability translates well in the NFL.

 

Considering Howell’s small sample size of 3 NCAA years and 1 pro game…. I’ve probably watched as much as him as you have.

 

Sam’s not the same player. He’s a better passer… but he’s not in the same category running.

 

Just because you categorize them similarly doesn’t make it so. 
 

Howell is never going to run for 800 yards and 11 TDs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MartinC]

7 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

 

Howell is never going to run for 800 yards and 11 TDs. 

 In the NFL? No I would agree. But he literally did this in his last year of College.

 

He doesn't have the speed and home run ability of a Jackson or Hurts and I would not design too many called run plays for Howell if I was the OC - but he's a very good instinctive runner and they would be at least a part of a game plan. His legs are definitely a weapon if only because he is a legit threat to keep on a read option. He will make some plays with his legs on broken pass plays as well, he is much more willing to take off if he has pressure and sees green than anyone we had under centre last year.

[zCommander]

First NFL game and he did well. As for for his running ability what I see is the instincts he has when he runs. That designed run play where he demolishes Diggs at the end - he is a bruiser and a powerful runner.

 

With Terry and Jahan on the field and accurate throws to them it won't even matter how many yards Howell has with his legs. But we know he can use them when needed. A luxury indeed and a welcomed one.  

SAM HOWELL Every throw and run || DALLAS COWBOYS vs WASHINGTON Video

 

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 In the NFL? No I would agree. But he literally did this in his last year of College.

 

He doesn't have the speed and home run ability of a Jackson or Hurts and I would not design too many called run plays for Howell if I was the OC - but he's a very good instinctive runner and they would be at least a part of a game plan. His legs are definitely a weapon if only because he is a legit threat to keep on a read option. He will make some plays with his legs on broken pass plays as well, he is much more willing to take off if he has pressure and sees green than anyone we had under centre last year.

I was going to say…

 

”I hope you mean in the pros because he literally did that in college”

[Die Hard]

19 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 In the NFL? No I would agree. But he literally did this in his last year of College.

 

He doesn't have the speed and home run ability of a Jackson or Hurts and I would not design too many called run plays for Howell if I was the OC - but he's a very good instinctive runner and they would be at least a part of a game plan. His legs are definitely a weapon if only because he is a legit threat to keep on a read option. He will make some plays with his legs on broken pass plays as well, he is much more willing to take off if he has pressure and sees green than anyone we had under centre last year.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. And it’s nothing inconsistent with what I’ve already said.

 

I’ve already said I think he’s a top 10 NFL QB material. I’m gushing.

 

The legs are assets… but I don’t think they’re going to be weaponized (game planned).

 

I hope so. I hope you’all are right.

 

I just see the way he runs… and I don’t think it’s going to work as well in the pros.

 

 

[Bifflog]

600 yards and 6 TDs if he plays a full season, seems achievable...

Edited May 11, 2023 by Bifflog

[Die Hard]

10 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

600 yards and 6 TDs if he plays a full season, seems achievable...

To me that would be his best year rushing in his entire career.
 

I’ll take it though… every year. I just don’t see it being consistent. He’ll have a game here and there that his legs will contribute/help, I’d imagine.

[Koolblue13]

They've been a weapon in college and the pros. So, if they've already always been a weapon, I doubt that suddenly changes.

 

And just because he's not beating the fastest QBs in the NFL at the 40, doesn't mean that he's not a running QB.

 

If any DC decides not ignore Howells legs and not game plan for him running the ball, they should probably be fired. Because his legs are a weapon.

17 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

To me that would be his best year rushing in his entire career.
 

I’ll take it though… every year. I just don’t see it being consistent. He’ll have a game here and there that his legs will contribute/help, I’d imagine.

Okay, you are basing this on the imaginary ceiling that you made up for him. That makes more sense now.

[redskinss]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Okay, you are basing this on the imaginary ceiling that you made up for him. That makes more sense now

3/4's of what this board does is make up imaginary floors and ceilings for players based off the opinions of that particular poster.

[Wyndorf25]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:48 PM, samy316 said:

What’s the argument here?  He’s a 5th Round QB, with 1 start to his name, and 19 pass attempts.  MAYBE he should be above Desmond Ridder, but he played more games than Howell, so there’s more tape on him than Howell as an NFL starter.  This is an accurate rating, unless Howell over performs next year.  It’s not a disrespectful rating, it’s an “we don’t know anything about him, and he’s a developmental QB with 1 NFL start” rating.

 

Every QB ranking or team rating isn’t a slight or disrespect.  It’s just an honest review of a bottom tier NFL team.

 

Eh, maybe. If I'm Rivera I'm sure as **** posting this up in the locker room though. Just sayin'.