Death of a Fanbase

[samy316]

I kept saying this in previous posts, but this team is dead in DC.  Look around town, do you see ANYONE in team gear anymore?  I see countless amounts of Caps/Nats gear whenever I’m in DC or Arlington.  It was really jarring when I went to an Arlington bar a couple of weeks ago for the Giants/WFT game.  The amount of Giants gear I saw at the bar, as well as different NFL jerseys was shocking.  I knew that the team was dead as far as popularity and coverage, but I had no idea it was this bad.

 

This has been a long time coming.  I think the combination of losing Cousins and keeping Bruce/Allen accelerated what was already taking place.  You can actually point to the year when we started bleeding fan support at Fed-Ex to when we lost Cousins to free agency after jerking him around with the FA tag for the 2 years prior.  2017 had at least 75-80% capacity at Fed-Ex.  I’m 2018, you started seeing the attendance drop to around 60K, and falling.

 

Part of the big problem with this team (aside from the obvious like the owner/FO), is the lack of marketable stars we have.  I know Chase is the de-facto face of the team now, but the NFL is an offense league.  If you don’t have a franchise QB, you’re dead in the water.  We’ve been in purgatory for the last 30 years, just as the franchise QB started to become the most important role in sports.  As long as we don’t have a franchise QB, good luck attracting new young fans.  I wouldn’t be surprised if we have the oldest fan base in the NFL.  What new young fans would willing follow this crap team?

[Csup]

44 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Hineke is just as good if not better than any qb we have had for the past 20 years

Step away from the meth

[Skinsinparadise]

58 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not from the area but I used to love going down there for a game or two every year. 
 

Now I look at the ticket prices, as low as they are… factor in my drive time… and decide the couch is a fantastic option. The fact that there are more opposing team fans there than our own is also a major hurdle for me. Why would I want to drive 6.5-7 hours for the game day experience to have an away team crowd? I could drive shorter distances or go on an actual vacation where the money would be worth it and go to a better stadium for that experience.

 

I think they need to find a spanking new stadium-state of the art ASAP.   Like you, I'd come up to games.  In my case fly.   But once i start hitting games on the road its no comparison.  

 

I am not in the group of fans that every now and again says they want their kids to root for other teams.  I like to indoctrinate my kids with this team and man its not easy.     But so far I am pulling it off.   We have much more fun going on the road for three reasons:

 

A.  The WFT fan base actually travels well.  It's actually fun to invade anothers stadium versus going to DC and seeing your stadium invaded.  So that's kind of fun for us.

 

B.  Some of the new stadiums I've been too like Arizona and Dallas are just a blast.  Right now I am booked for the Raiders game in part to check that facility out.

 

C.  Aside from Dallas, the other stadiums I've been to you can make a day of it.  There are other things to do near the stadium. 

 

The problem with this team runs deeper than the stadium but I find the stadium to be the lowest hanging fruit that has nothing to do with winning.  Sad thing for me is while I've been down about Dan for the most part for a long time.  I used to think that landing a stadium would be up his alley.  I used to see him as a dummy when it came to football and running a team but on the other hand he was a competent marketer and business guy who can think big.  I now think the dude is incompetent across the board.

 

I know a little but (I am no expert but I know a little more than a layperson about it) about the process of getting a stadium because I  worked for someone who was lobbyied on it from the governent side and then later I did some marketing work on it for a consulting friend who was helping a sports team.  I talked at length about this years ago and said everything I've heard about how they are approaching the stadium push leads me to think they will fail.  That was the period when Bruce was supposedly poised to use his political connections to secure one.  

 

Now, I am not sure how it goes.  Jason Wright is bright and savvy unlike Bruce.    But Dan's lack of political connections coupled with him being unpopular coupled with him supposedly not having a lot of liquid cash comparatively speaking to some owners -- doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy vibe.   Some who are following this are saying  they will be forced to rebuild around Fedex.  Personally I doubt it.  Dan is dumb but I don't think he's that dumb where he fails (or at least Wright would explain it to him) to realize that the location is a big part of the problem.

 

I am assuming DC is too hard.  If so, I think they got to go aggressively after the National Harbor area.  You can marry gambling with the experience.  You have the restaruants and stuff nearby.  I think he's going to have to go with major business partnerships, including a gambling one ala what the Raiders did.  But the Raiders still got 750 million in public funding.  I am gathering Dan isn't going to get a cent of public funding.    

Edited October 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Yeah there won't be a stadium in D.C. No chance. I'm guessing National Harbor since its close to both NoVA and MD.

[SoCalSkins]

15 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

Was texting with my friend today, we had season tickets together from 03-08.  I suggested going to next weeks Chiefs game purely to watch Mahomes.  His reply?  I'd rather go see them play someone else in KC.

 

I agreed.

I went to KC when we played there when we had Sean Taylor. Awesome experience. The fans there know how to tailgate and are beyond super nice. The worst heckling I got was being told they hope my team comes in second today. One of the better game day experiences I have had. Stadium is old but the atmosphere is amazing. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

My neighbors buddy from Denver (originally from MoCo, a skins fan) was in town, we made the trek (about 90 minutes) to Davidsonville to play Renditions golf course.  He kept trying to convince the group to get a room at the MGM for the night, get tix to the game, and go today.   It was sad that none of us could muster the enthusiasm to do such a thing.  We all went into telling stories about our awful experiences there, how said it is now, and how it wasn’t even worth discussing with our spouses.  We all pretty much share the feeling that we are stuck.  Stuck in a primarily emotionless relationship with this team.  We just don’t have the juice for this team anymore.  But can’t just manufacture the feelings for a new team.

 

It’s such a stark contrast from how it used to be.  I miss the emotional roller coaster watching games could be.  I miss feeling like I might stroke out over the outcome of a play.  I now find it hard to be 100% engaged when watching at home.  I used to go to a game or two at minimum every season.  I’d look forward to it all week.  I’d have the truck loaded up to tailgate the night before.  Sometimes we’d win, sometimes we’d get our asses kicked.  But nowadays, I can’t imagine spending the money and time to go to a game.  In fact, I can’t imagine going even for free. 

[Fred Jones]

I have seen nothing in the last 10 plus years to show that this team will be anything more than average until Dan is no longer the owner.  Years go by and the same story, just a different coach or front office.

 

To me, the failure has always been about the lack of acquisition of talent.  It starts with no franchise QB.  And, the horrible owner just makes everything worse.

[profusion]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s such a stark contrast from how it used to be.  I miss the emotional roller coaster watching games could be.  I miss feeling like I might stroke out over the outcome of a play. 

 

I remember how the entire metro area was either way up or way down on Monday morning depending on how the game went. And it wasn't even that long ago--RG3's one great year just about lifted the roof off of DC, as I recall. People were genuinely excited. It went downhill very very rapidly after that.

 

I'm not even sure a legitimate playoff run (not a 7-9 fluke) would get this town interested now. On the other hand, I also remember when Caps tickets were easy to get and nobody was "rocking the red"--also not really that long ago. Things can change if people feel an invitation to it.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

I went to KC when we played there when we had Sean Taylor. Awesome experience. The fans there know how to tailgate and are beyond super nice. The worst heckling I got was being told they hope my team comes in second today. One of the better game day experiences I have had. Stadium is old but the atmosphere is amazing. 

 

A stadium that is old but I had a lot of fun at was the Superdome in NO.  Atmosphere was a blast.  You can walk to the stadium from your hotel.  Opposing fans were cool.  Heck even Tampa Bay (which gets slammed some around the league) was much more fun than Fedex.

 

Fedex is the worst.  It's bad enough that the team doesn't win.  But when you add the crap atmosphere and crap game day experience to it -- that's hard to recover from.

 

IMO they can't wait until 2027.  In Snyder's interview in front of the Rams stadium this summer, he alluded to the idea that it could come sooner than 2027.  I got my doubts he could pull it off but in his shoes I'd make that stadium project code red.  

[bh32]

42 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

Thank you. You don’t need the first pick to get a franchise QB. You have to start by being a competent franchise that can evaluate talent and build a team. We can’t do either.

Not saying you need the #1 pick,But you need a pick within the first 8 or so picks to even have a chance at a franchise QB..Picking 15th or below and your chances aren't very good

[SoCalSkins]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A stadium that is old but I had a lot of fun at was the Superdome in NO.  Atmosphere was a blast.  You can walk to the stadium from your hotel.  Opposing fans were cool.  Heck even Tampa Bay (which gets slammed some around the league) was much more fun than Fedex.

 

Fedex is the worst.  It's bad enough that the team doesn't win.  But when you add the crap atmosphere and crap game day experience to it -- that's hard to recover from.

 

IMO they can't wait until 2027.  In Snyder's interview in front of the Rams stadium this summer, he alluded to the idea that it could come sooner than 2027.  I got my doubts he could pull it off but in his shoes I'd make that stadium project code red.  

 

i was at the super dome for RG3s debut. Loved it but they improved it significantly after Katrina. I don’t consider it that old. 
 

A new stadium will kill what’s left of the fan base. Who is going to pony up $25 to $50k PSL per seat in the lower bowl? Public funding is out. There just isn’t a realistic scenario where it gets built unless Snyder eats the cost which I don’t foresee. He might delude himself into thinking he will sell PSLs so you will have a situation where the team will be selling single game tickets on the secondary market at bargain prices while the few suckers who paid for PSLs will be infuriated. That’s exactly how this plays out. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by SoCalSkins

[NoVaSkins21]

The stadium, the parking, and the overall fan experience is why FedEx has become a haven for a visiting fan takeover every home game.  WFT fans are tired of the same 'ol stuff for the last 30 years and it's going to get worse.  Snyder and his cronies and largely to blame for all of this erosion. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

i was at the super dome for RG3s debut. Loved it but they improved it significantly after Katrina. I don’t consider it that old. 
 

A new stadium will kill what’s left of the fan base. Who is going to pony up $25 to $50k PSL per seat in the lower bowl? Public funding is out. There just isn’t a realistic scenario where it gets built unless Snyder eats the cost which I don’t foresee. He might delude himself into thinking he will sell PSLs so you will have a situation where the team will be selling single game tickets on the secondary market at bargain prices while the few suckers who paid for PSLs will be infuriated. That’s exactly how this plays out. 

 

It might.  

[profusion]

2 minutes ago, bh32 said:

Not saying you need the #1 pick,But you need a pick within the first 8 or so picks to even have a chance at a franchise QB..Picking 15th or below and your chances aren't very good

 

21st Century SB-winning QBs picked 15th or below:

Tom Brady

Patrick Mahomes

Aaron Rodgers

Russell Wilson

Ben Roethlisberger

Joe Flacco*

Nick Foles*

 

That represents most of the QBs who won SBs in this century.

 

I put an asterisk behind the last two because they're sort of accidental winners.

 

There's no single formula, but typically these organizations put a rookie into a good situation by fielding a good team around him. A couple of these guys spent their rookie seasons on the bench because their teams didn't need them to start right away. That rarely happens with teams bad enough to pick in the top 10. It's mostly the perennial losers.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I used to think Dan was going to get a stadium.  In fact, the only question I had was where.

 

Now, I can’t think of a way that he gets one.  How do you justify a ‘need’ for a new stadium when you can’t fill the one you have?  For a team that has absolutely no buzz? Why would any politician want to get in bed with an unlikable figure in Dan, and agree to spend tax dollars to help him build a stadium for a team nobody likes?  Without taxpayer support, how would he afford it?

[SoCalSkins]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I used to think Dan was going to get a stadium.  In fact, the only question I had was where.

 

Now, I can’t think of a way that he gets one.  How do you justify a ‘need’ for a new stadium when you can’t fill the one you have?  For a team that has absolutely no buzz? Why would any politician want to get in bed with an unlikable figure in Dan, and agree to spend tax dollars to help him build a stadium for a team nobody likes?  Without taxpayer support, how would he afford it?

Wirh smoke and mirrors and fraud. But he has milked his fan base dry that those tactics no longer work. He can’t create an illusion of demand any longer. They are already polling fans to gauge PSL interest. It’s going to be a massive failure.

Edited October 11, 2021 by SoCalSkins

[profusion]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I used to think Dan was going to get a stadium.  In fact, the only question I had was where.

 

Now, I can’t think of a way that he gets one.  How do you justify a ‘need’ for a new stadium when you can’t fill the one you have?  For a team that has absolutely no buzz? Why would any politician want to get in bed with an unlikable figure in Dan, and agree to spend tax dollars to help him build a stadium for a team nobody likes?  Without taxpayer support, how would he afford it?

 

The trend is away from public funding, anyway. Stan Kroenke built SoFi Stadium without public financing. The smarter owners understand that if you can build a larger entertainment complex around the stadium, you can make a killing on the thing all year long and not just 8-11 Sundays per year. With that, you can get your own private financing if you need it--and many of the "new wave" owners are vastly wealthier than Snyder and don't need the help.

 

Only the team-less cities like St. Louis and San Diego would even consider public funding now in order to lure a team there.

 

Snyder could probably get all the bureaucracies to lineup if he was willing to pay for the next stadium himself. But we all know he can't and wouldn't even if he could. It'll end up being a debacle where the team is at FedEx for many years to come.

Edited October 11, 2021 by profusion

[SkipJackSkin]

57 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Sadly yes, i never wanted to believe it but its the only way, The name change is gonna hurt as well might be the last nail in the coffin for a lot of old timers

 

I haven't been keeping track of that storyline. What's the latest? Obviously the scandals didn't crush him. Are there any catalysts that could force a sale?

[SoCalSkins]

3 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

The trend is away from public funding, anyway. Stan Kroenke built SoFi Stadium without public financing. The smarter owners understand that if you can build a larger entertainment complex around the stadium, you can make a killing on the thing all year long and not just 8-11 Sundays per year. With that, you can get your own private financing if you need it--and many of the "new wave" owners are vastly wealthier than Snyder and don't need the help.

 

Snyder could probably get all the bureaucracies to lineup if he was willing to pay for the next stadium himself. But we all know he can't and wouldn't even if he could. It'll end up being a debacle where the team is at FedEx for many years to come.

All the wealthier owners including Kroencke used PSLs to offset stadium costs. There will be zero appetite to pay $50 grand per seat on the lower level between the 40s that Snyder will look to charge. Not to mention the outrageous pet game ticket price you might be able to recoup for the zdallas game in the first 2 seasons of the stadium. It’s going to be a disaster. 

[petey hodge]

We need fresh, new corporate sponsorship to get the juices flowing again! 

 

I'd like to recommend Pfizer... "They can bring the Dead back to Life!"

 

 

Tell Julia Donaldson!

 

[profusion]

1 minute ago, SoCalSkins said:

All the wealthier owners including Kroencke used PSLs to offset stadium costs. There will be zero appetite to pay $50 grand per seat on the lower level between the 40s that Snyder will look to charge. Not to mention the outrageous pet game ticket price you might be able to recoup for the zdallas game in the first 2 seasons of the stadium. It’s going to be a disaster. 

 

Yep, I can't imagine more than a few people being willing to pay that so long as Snyder owns the team.

 

I suppose this raises the question of whether Snyder is willing to move the team someplace dumb enough to pay for his stadium. Since the team doesn't even have a name right now and basically zero local support, it's almost a blank slate akin to an expansion team.

[Dark Acre]

41 minutes ago, Csup said:

Step away from the meth

That's not meth, it's paint thinner.

[skinswillwin06]

My buddy said Terry McLaurin held the door open for 8 people at Duck Donuts in Herndon Saturday morning and not one person recognized him or spoke to him (other than my buddy). And he was even wearing WFT gear.

 

Just embarrassing that the local team has such little interest that the best player on the team doesn't even get recognized in public. That would never happen for the Nats, Caps, or even Wizards.

[DCSaints_fan]

21 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

21st Century SB-winning QBs picked 15th or below:

Tom Brady

Patrick Mahomes

Aaron Rodgers

Russell Wilson

Ben Roethlisberger

Joe Flacco*

Nick Foles*

 

That represents most of the QBs who won SBs in this century.

 

I put an asterisk behind the last two because they're sort of accidental winners.

 

There's no single formula, but typically these organizations put a rookie into a good situation by fielding a good team around him. A couple of these guys spent their rookie seasons on the bench because their teams didn't need them to start right away. That rarely happens with teams bad enough to pick in the top 10. It's mostly the perennial losers.

Drew Brees picked 32nd in 2001

Edited October 11, 2021 by DCSaints_fan