The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[Skinsinparadise]

I did the draft redo thing the previous draft but not this one.

 

I'll do my best now to recall what I was thinking then versus now with hindsight.

 

first round:  Jamin Davis:  I was probably the highest on the draft thread on Jamin so I had no issue with that pick.  TK did a competition on the board to guess our first round pick and if I recall I was the only one who picked Jamin.  I did like JOK better but I didn't know about his heart condition.  I did like Darrisaw better but I did hear in the days leading to the draft that there were some concerns about Darrisaw's football character and that this FO wasn't likely to take him.   Before that it looked like he'd be the pick here if he fell but I noticed the shift.  But back to Davis, I was high on him and spent a lot of energy touting him.  So i was happy with it.

 

2nd round:  Cosmi.  I liked the pick a lot.  I wasn't one of the early ones on him on that draft thread but I liked him.  He was on the table for me in a trade down in the first.  On the day draft thread, he was the guy I said I thought they'd take if he was still there in the 2nd at their pick.

 

3rd round.  St Juste.  I didn't really watch many corners before the draft.  But I happened to rewatch the Senior Bowl a week before the draft and it was tough to miss St. Juste in that one.  He was breaking up passes and getting a lot of love from the broadcasters.   Who did I want then?  I was a big Tremble guy and Brevin Jordan.  I wanted one of them.  Judging by how far Jordan fell, I might be wrong about him.  Will see. 

 

3rd round.  Dyami Brown.  Once Sheehan leaked that they loved Elijah Moore but considering they likely wouldn't take him with their first pick, they'd want someone like him -- my mind raced to Dyami Brown and I said so on the draft thread.  I like Elijah over Dyami but they both share super ball tracking skills.   If I had to pick a player in the draft who was my guy so to speak it was Elijah.  I was really high on him early before I noticed his draft stock really caught fire.   So in short I loved that pick in real time.  The other guy I was hot on in that place in the draft was Michael Carter.

 

4th round.  John Bates.  I spent a lot of time on the TEs.   I didn't dive deep though and who I thought were the third tier TEs and I included Bates on that 3rd tier list.  Bates was my highest ranked among the third tier TEs but he was on my radar for later in the draft, not in the 4th.  In real time, I wanted Brevin Jordan then.  Like @stevemcqueen1 I was a big Tylan Wallace guy and he was still available but after taking Dyami, I wasn't as hot for a WR.  But I'd have taken Wallace over Bates regardless. 

 

5th round:  Darrick Forrest. I knew nothing about him aside from I did a ranking of pure athleticism among the safeties who still weren't drafted yet after day 2 and Forrest was ranked #1.  But I never watched him play.  In this round if I recall I wanted Jamar Johnson or a RB like Hill.

 

6th round.  Cheeseman.  Obviously I didn't know any of the long snappers or was thinking of that spot.  I wasn't really hardcore about a specific player in this round or ditto in the 7th round.  But I recall wanting a RB.   Kylin Hill, Jake Funk.  I did like Trey Smith who was still there.

 

7th round.  Bradley-King.  Toney.  I didn't study the pass rushers at all.  I knew nothing about either guy.   So they weren't on my radar.  I think at this point I was really beating the drum for Kylin Hill.  I did ironically mention Jaret Patterson in one post, too but he wasn't my top want at RB at this juncture but I did know a little about him. 

 

7th round.  Dax Milne.  I liked this pick a lot.  I didn't call for it in real time because I didn't think they'd take another WR.  He's a guy I did watch quite a bit and commented on several times in the draft thread. 

 

Jared Patterson UDFA:  it gave me a rush when they signed up.  I thought he deserved to go in the late rounds.  I didn't like him as much as some of the guys who were drafted before him late in the draft like Herbert, K. Hill, Funk.  But I felt a lot of those late round RBs were close in ability so I wanted one of them.  I felt we missed out in the late rounds to do it but Patterson was a nice save.  

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

7 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

What is this telling me exactly? lol...it's too late to do any real reading.

Basically a complicated statistical process that uses weightings around EPA per play and PFF grade to explain how good each QB really was over their careers (or since 2007) vs their peers. It claims to remove the recency bias that is so common in ranking QBs. Obviously, Fitzpatrick won’t look as good here given his shaky career up until the past couple of seasons. 

15 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

 

Brady has a particularly good record against Jack del Rio:

"Del Rio's teams have gone 1-9 against Brady. In those 10 games, Brady has thrown 25 touchdowns against just one interception"

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/tom-brady-has-found-remarkable-success-against-jack-del-rios-defenses

 

 

 

I think Del Rio’s schemes are too simple and predictable against a QB like Brady. You have to constantly try to trick him and subvert his expectations, changing up your pre- vs post-snap looks on the back-end, while getting pressure with 4 each play.  Easier said than done, but some DCs have definitely had more success against him than others due to using this method. 

[mudhog]

6 hours ago, terpfan said:

I like Patterson too, but how do I take the other side of this bet? He’s more likely to be cut than be our #2 RB. 

I see it as McKissic has been made expendable by Samuel. In a numbers game, Samuel would be the 4th RB because he brings more to the table than J.D. simply because of how versatile he is. As far as Barber and Miller, I could not say who is better. Miller was great once, but we're talking circa 2018. Barber has never been special except for the fact that he always picks up the extremely hard short yards. And maybe that's enough.

Patterson is explosive. He is just as good running between the tackles as turning the corner on the outside. He's got speed and twitch and power. He's not as heavy as Barber, but he's 3 inches shorter, so the package is the same, just lower. Plus he's a pass catcher. 

I will say that the X-factor in all this is who plays on special teams and if McKissic or Patterson would PR/KR

[HTTRDynasty]

Terry hype 🚀

 

 

[Burgold]

14 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Just saying, it's really hard to have repeat elite defensive years. 

Is this really true? I remember Baltimore having an elite defense for a ten year stretch. Tampa Bay. A few others. Seems to me, when you get that defense sorted, they stay a top defense for a long team (at least this is true with the "good" teams.

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, mudhog said:

All in all, that is a stellar draft. I put Brown in as a day-1 starter because I don't know how the line-up goes, but everyone is talking about Samuel as an outside receiver, when we all know he does his best work from the slot. Therefore, Brown should have the edge over him and Humphries as the Z receiver

 

I'm not sure I'd pencil anyone but Jamin Davis in as a day one starter.  Cosmi is probably behind Lucas and Leno day one, St Juste will almost certainly be behind Fuller and Jackson, and Brown is going to have to battle Humphries for reps too I think.  But day one starting is also not the standard I'd use to judge the class.  We don't necessarily need big rookie contributions for it to be a good class, although it's nice to get guys locking down roles early in their careers like Young and Curl did last year.

 

I do think our first four picks will eventually pan out and I am hopeful about Bates, Forest, Milne, and Toney.  Cheeseman was a dumb pick, but having said that, he better make the team and do his job well as a rookie.

 

I think a distinction can be made between having a good class and having the best possible class, where you minimize opportunity cost paid.  And I think we'll be able to settle some of these questions with hindsight.

[Burgold]

40 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

 

Brady has a particularly good record against Jack del Rio:

"Del Rio's teams have gone 1-9 against Brady. In those 10 games, Brady has thrown 25 touchdowns against just one interception"

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/tom-brady-has-found-remarkable-success-against-jack-del-rios-defenses

 

 

 

To be fair, doesn't Brady have a particularly good record against everybody?

[mudhog]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'm not sure I'd pencil anyone but Jamin Davis in as a day one starter.  Cosmi is probably behind Lucas and Leno day one, St Juste will almost certainly be behind Fuller and Jackson, and Brown is going to have to battle Humphries for reps too I think.  But day one starting is also not the standard I'd use to judge the class.  We don't necessarily need big rookie contributions for it to be a good class, although it's nice to get guys locking down roles early in their careers like Young and Curl did last year.

 

I do think our first four picks will eventually pan out and I am hopeful about Bates, Forest, Milne, and Toney.  Cheeseman was a dumb pick, but having said that, he better make the team and do his job well as a rookie.

 

I think a distinction can be made between having a good class and having the best possible class, where you minimize opportunity cost paid.  And I think we'll be able to settle some of these questions with hindsight.

Damn, I forgot about Forest. Yes, he definitely makes the team.

[MisterPinstripe]

12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Is this really true? I remember Baltimore having an elite defense for a ten year stretch. Tampa Bay. A few others. Seems to me, when you get that defense sorted, they stay a top defense for a long team (at least this is true with the "good" teams.

Seattle recently with the legion of boom.

[Gurgeh]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

To be fair, doesn't Brady have a particularly good record against everybody?

 

Brady's been good against everyone, but the point is he's been exceptionally good (even for Brady) against Jack del Rio. Del Rio's style of defense just seems to particularly suit his game.

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Is this really true? I remember Baltimore having an elite defense for a ten year stretch. Tampa Bay. A few others. Seems to me, when you get that defense sorted, they stay a top defense for a long team (at least this is true with the "good" teams.

 

It's true for both sides of the ball, but on offense is easier to maintain the continuity of a high powered unit via having an elite QB.  They are probably individually responsible for like 35% of an offense's power.  There is no such individual impact on a defense.

 

A lot of times, a great defense gives you like a three year window for making super bowl runs, especially if it's not paired with a good offense.  The Eagles in the early 90s with Reggie White.  Bears in the late aughts.  Seahawks in the early teens.  Broncos and Panthers in mid teens.  The current Rams.  The main thing is it's hard to keep the band together when it's time for everyone to get paid.  A lot of times, dominant defenses are the product of a cluster of great draft classes and thus a team has to make rough choices like letting a Josh Norman or Michael Bennett walk.  And defenses are predicated on speed, which goes first as a player ages and sustains cumulative NFL wear.  So attrition is a major limiting factor on the sustainability of a defense.

 

But that's also why it's important to build a balanced roster, and why I am arguing we should have done more to build the offense instead of pumping most of our resources into the defense, which was already high end last season, and is maturing into their prime.

[HTTRDynasty]

27 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Is this really true? I remember Baltimore having an elite defense for a ten year stretch. Tampa Bay. A few others. Seems to me, when you get that defense sorted, they stay a top defense for a long team (at least this is true with the "good" teams.

Hard not to have an elite defense over that stretch with two first-ballot HOFers (Ed Reed and Ray Lewis) leading your squad - both of whom are considered perhaps the GOATs at their respective positions - and surrounded by pro-bowlers. 
 

We definitely don’t have that. Young could maybe become that, but he’s not there yet. I don’t think anyone else on this team has that type of ceiling. 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by HTTRDynasty

[mudhog]

3 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

 

Brady's been good against everyone, but the point is he's been exceptionally good (even for Brady) against Jack del Rio. Del Rio's style of defense just seems to particularly suit his game.

I guess the stats will prove me wrong because I usually go with my gut.  I can't wallow in the minutiae of boring charts and graphs. But I didn't see it that way in the WC game. I saw us play pretty well defensively. Every one of us knew where our weak points were before we went into that game. We saw it all year. So I don't see it as a fail on JDR's part, or any sort of brilliants on Brady's part. It was obvious. If the middle of the D is total suck, then that's where you attack. Period. The simple fact that we held them to 31 points instead of a blowout is what speaks here.

My bottom line is that JDR is one of the most brilliant defensive minds in the NFL and I thank God He and RR and their whole crowd showed up when they did, because now I have hope.

[Skinsinparadise]

One other thought on the draft picks.  A key benefit that this FO or any FO has over fans is they can take a deep dive into a player's character.  Is he driven to excel?  Good teammate, etc?

 

I was a big Derrius Guice guy for example before that draft but I had no idea about the depth of character concerns which apparently some NFL teams had some clue about it but our FO apparently shrugged off.  Granted from what i've heard it was just rumors but the rumors apparently were enough to take him off of Carolina's draft board among others. 

 

When you listen to and read about the players they took in this draft, the character of these guys are through the roof.   They were going for high intangibles.  It's come out on some fronts that some of the players like Darrisaw, J. Johnson and Brevin Jordan have some questions as to their intangibles.  Will see if that plays out.

 

So I got faith that this FO took a deep dive into these prospects and I think their hit rate is going to be good.  Judging by rumors from camp, feels like everyone of these guys shined to some extent thus far.   With the benefit of hindsight, I feel even better about this draft then I did in real time. 

 

The tweets below fit every guy they drafted.  Mayhew has talked about being on SB teams and he said the common denominator is having great locker rooms.  This clearly was an orchestrated attempt from the FO to load up that locker room with good teammates-hard workers who would feed off of each other. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Our defense is going to be elite over the next 3 years. Allen and Payne are going to become unstoppable in the middle. There is no ceiling to how great Young can be either.

 

The way to beat Brady has never changed. You have to be able to hit him and make him uncomfortable. You need great coverage from the middle of your defense and that's where the problem usually is.

[Going Commando]

Leaving the speculative debate about the offense behind, and since we do have premium talent everywhere in the defense, I'm interested in the discussions about the schemes we run and how the defensive personnel is to be used.  The buffalo nickel discussion was pretty cool because it sounded like we ran a version of man-match cover seven defense that I read about in an article on the Athletic.  https://theathletic.com/2613417/2021/05/28/understanding-the-basics-of-cover-7-part-1-past-three-super-bowl-winners-have-used-it/

 

I think our buffalo nickel is the same thing as Nick Saban's star.  Virtually the same role from the way it was described.  That suggests Collins could be a good fit to play a lot of snaps in that role, but clearly you need three guys who can play safety-like fits and coverages on the field in this system.  And I think interchangeability of all three of those DBs is key because motion is going to change their alignment and coverage to the point where that star/buffalo nickel might have to drop from man into a deep zone/bracket if the #2 motions away.  Plus you could have a situation where your DB guarding the #2, who has no fitting responsibility at the beginning of the alignment could get motioned into box duty and now he's suddenly got a very important fit to make.

 

- The level of complexity of these coverages hurts my brain and makes it clear to see why it's so difficult to play safety and OLB in the NFL.  Playing Jamin Davis at Mike (or Mac in the Saban scheme) is the right call.  It will vastly simplify his coverage duties since he pretty much will only have to read 3s and final 3s and there still are way fewer big time passing game weapons at RB and inline TE than at 2 receiver.  It makes the field much smaller for him and gives him a chance to fly around as a rookie in that condensed area.

 

- The split field coverages built into the scheme explains why we can have Kendall Fuller thriving in off coverage on one side and St Juste or Jackson thriving in press man on the other side.

 

- The versatility of McCain, Collins, and Curl are absolutely the key to running these schemes well since their duties are going to be so difficult, varied, and read intensive.  They will do the heavy lifting of covering 2s and also performing good brackets on dangerous ones, plus they have a big role in finishing spilled runs.  Having a quality player on the field for each spot is big, and we might have some problems if any one of them misses a lot of time.  Hudson's progression is also super important because we're going to need him to be able to play competent coverages.  He's our best shot at presenting a box that is not so terribly light.

 

- If St Juste and Jackson can play good press man on 1s then that makes the defense so much more simple and sound.  It'd be nice to have the other DBs focus on everyone else and not worry about 1s.  But the mixed duty of outside corners does mean that St Juste is going to have to do some reading and play some quarters and we might have to pump the breaks on expecting him to have a big rookie year.  Jackson is clearly going to be our primary outside man corner.

 

- The Payne/Settle rotation can actually play a HUGE role for this defense if it lets us lighten the box up and play an extra linebacker instead of lineman and still get a big and effective spill from the middle of the line.  It'd also be huge if Allen could play well in the rotation in this role since he is better than Settle overall and we're going to need to limit snap counts to be effective.  He's explosive and athletic enough for it. We may not have Aaron Donald, but if you can throw a fresh Payne and Allen at the job of being a dominant spilling one tech, then you can still defend good run games with a light box.

 

[mojo]

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

Over or under valuing individual games is dangerous. Some times it’s a bad match up or a few bad plays that lead to a bad game defensively. Especially in todays NFL that provide many advantages to the offense. The one pattern that screamed out for last years defense was inconsistent run defense. 
 

The Rams the number 1 defense in 2020 got 32 points hung on them by Rodgers and were run on for over a 180 yards. 
 

The Steelers the number 3 defense got 48 points put on them by the Browns. Big bens 4ints didn’t help, but Baker and the run game didn’t experience much resistance on that day. 
 

It’s tough in today’s NFL, an elite defense isn’t going to be elite every game. 

Agreed but it’s also true average defenses can post elite numbers while playing inept offenses and we played a lot of bums last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Our defense is going to be elite over the next 3 years. Allen and Payne are going to become unstoppable in the middle. There is no ceiling to how great Young can be either.

 

The way to beat Brady has never changed. You have to be able to hit him and make him uncomfortable. You need great coverage from the middle of your defense and that's where the problem usually is.

 

Yeah I'd add this to the Brady comment.  Brady is clearly a wiz as for dissecting a defenses' strengths and weaknesses.  And I thought it was telling that it came out after the game that Brady felt our secondary could be had.  Seemed like the idea was that if they could block the D line well (which for the most part they did) Brady felt he could pick apart the secondary.  They were clearly targeting the heck out of Darby for example.

 

Hopefully William Jackson, St. Juste (eventually) and McCain can change that.

 

Also as you pointed out they challenged the LBs.  Fournette (who was struggiling before that game) looked like Walter Payton against this defense.  Ironically I used some clips from that game to tout Jamin Davis when I pushed for him on the draft threat.  Our LBs struggled with lateral-side line to side line movement and open field tackling -- both IMO are Jamin Davis' strengths.   Jamin's sideline to sideline range and open field tackling ability IMO is really good.  Also, he has the athleticism to cover a RB or TE if need be.    The more I think about it, I think he's going to make a nice impact.  Plus I think Del Rio will finally get home on some of his double A blitzes.    

Edited June 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[London Kev]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Leaving the speculative debate about the offense behind, and since we do have premium talent everywhere in the defense, I'm interested in the discussions about the schemes we run and how the defensive personnel is to be used.  The buffalo nickel discussion was pretty cool because it sounded like we ran a version of man-match cover seven defense that I read about in an article on the Athletic.  https://theathletic.com/2613417/2021/05/28/understanding-the-basics-of-cover-7-part-1-past-three-super-bowl-winners-have-used-it/

 

I think our buffalo nickel is the same thing as Nick Saban's star.  Virtually the same role from the way it was described.  That suggests Collins could be a good fit to play a lot of snaps in that role, but clearly you need three guys who can play safety-like fits and coverages on the field in this system.  And I think interchangeability of all three of those DBs is key because motion is going to change their alignment and coverage to the point where that star/buffalo nickel might have to drop from man into a deep zone/bracket if the #2 motions away.  Plus you could have a situation where your DB guarding the #2, who has no fitting responsibility at the beginning of the alignment could get motioned into box duty and now he's suddenly got a very important fit to make.

 

- The level of complexity of these coverages hurts my brain and makes it clear to see why it's so difficult to play safety and OLB in the NFL.  Playing Jamin Davis at Mike (or Mac in the Saban scheme) is the right call.  It will vastly simplify his coverage duties since he pretty much will only have to read 3s and final 3s and there still are way fewer big time passing game weapons at RB and inline TE than at 2 receiver.  It makes the field much smaller for him and gives him a chance to fly around as a rookie in that condensed area.

 

- The split field coverages built into the scheme explains why we can have Kendall Fuller thriving in off coverage on one side and St Juste or Jackson thriving in press man on the other side.

 

- The versatility of McCain, Collins, and Curl are absolutely the key to running these schemes well since their duties are going to be so difficult, varied, and read intensive.  They will do the heavy lifting of covering 2s and also performing good brackets on dangerous ones, plus they have a big role in finishing spilled runs.  Having a quality player on the field for each spot is big, and we might have some problems if any one of them misses a lot of time.  Hudson's progression is also super important because we're going to need him to be able to play competent coverages.  He's our best shot at presenting a box that is not so terribly light.

 

- If St Juste and Jackson can play good press man on 1s then that makes the defense so much more simple and sound.  It'd be nice to have the other DBs focus on everyone else and not worry about 1s.  But the mixed duty of outside corners does mean that St Juste is going to have to do some reading and play some quarters and we might have to pump the breaks on expecting him to have a big rookie year.  Jackson is clearly going to be our primary outside man corner.

 

- The Payne/Settle rotation can actually play a HUGE role for this defense if it lets us lighten the box up and play an extra linebacker instead of lineman and still get a big and effective spill from the middle of the line.  It'd also be huge if Allen could play well in the rotation in this role since he is better than Settle overall and we're going to need to limit snap counts to be effective.  He's explosive and athletic enough for it. We may not have Aaron Donald, but if you can throw a fresh Payne and Allen at the job of being a dominant spilling one tech, then you can still defend good run games with a light box.

 

 

Thanks for posting this. I find some of these concepts a bit hard to grasp, but you explain them really well.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Hard not to have an elite defense over that stretch with two first-ballot HOFers (Ed Reed and Ray Lewis) leading your squad - both of whom are considered perhaps the GOATs at their respective positions - and surrounded by pro-bowlers. 
 

We definitely don’t have that. Young could maybe become that, but he’s not there yet. I don’t think anyone else on this team has that type of ceiling. 

 

I wanted to take a deeper look at this, so I pulled down the defensive DVOA rankings from Football Outsiders on an annual basis from 2000 to 2020 and created a table to show the output. 

 

The table below shows the average rank over that period for each team, as well as the number of top 10, top 5, and top 3 finishes over that span.  It's clear that Baltimore has been on a completely different level than the rest of the league.  They averaged a 6th place ranking; the next closest team averaged a ranking of 13th (Chicago).  Baltimore also finished inside the top 10 19 times over 21 years, and top 5 12 times, which is ridiculous.  They are the massive outlier over the past 2 decades.

 

Washington's defense has been average among its peers over the past 21 seasons.

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by HTTRDynasty

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

Is this really true? I remember Baltimore having an elite defense for a ten year stretch. Tampa Bay. A few others. Seems to me, when you get that defense sorted, they stay a top defense for a long team (at least this is true with the "good" teams.

 

A difference with some of these is multiple HoF and "Hall of Very Good" players.

 

That 2000's Tampa Bay defense was absolutely loaded with elite talent.  The year they won the Super Bowl in 2002:

HoF linebacker Derrick Brooks

HoF safety John Lynch

HoF IDL Warren Sapp

"Hall of Very Good" CB Ronde Barber (who knows, maybe he still makes it into the HoF)

"Hall of Very Good" pass rush specialist Simeon Rice with 122 career sacks

 

Do we think the 2020 Football Team defense has that much talent?  Jon Allen, Payne, and Ioannidis are pretty good players...but they aren't Warren Sapp.  Our LB core last year was abysmal, let alone led by a HoF.  Curl was a revelation, but Landon Collins is going to get a lot of playing time in 2021, and he's not a HoFer.  Best we can say is Chase Young's potential is better than Simeon Rice, and Montez Sweat might be a better all-around player than Simeon Rice as well.

 

Going by DVOA, and looking at teams in the AFC East (picked a division at random)

Sort of methodology I used.  If they had a Top 3 finish, I put that year and the year after.  I thought about doing it with a DVOA threshold but that's more work.

 

Bills:

2019 - 7th

2018 - 2nd

...

2015 - 24th

2014 - 3rd

...

2005 - 29th

2004 - 1st

 

Jets:

2012 - 10th

2011 - 2nd

2010 - 6th

2009 - 1st

 

Dolphins:

2003 - 5th

2002 - 2nd

2001 - 10th

2000 - 3rd

1999 - 8th

1998 - 1st

 

Patriots:

2020 - 26th

2019 - 1st

...

2004 - 6th

2003 - 2nd

 

For reference for our own Football Team:

2021 - TBD

2020 - 3rd

...

2006 - 32nd

2005 - 4th

2004 - 4th

 

Sure seems like most of these are not elite defenses in back to back years.  The best are the Dolphins who had a stretch oscillating between elite to above-average to elite to etc...

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

- The versatility of McCain, Collins, and Curl are absolutely the key to running these schemes well since their duties are going to be so difficult, varied, and read intensive. 

This was an awesome post. Wish I could read that Atlantic article. Guess I should watch some Alabama defense.

 

I highlighted this part in particular to add Fuller. If Juste can start at least in spot duty, it allows Fuller to move around a lot as well.

[Skinsinparadise]

some interesting stuff here from WP today

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/06/18/ron-rivera-washington-offseason-decisions/

 

 

After you brought in Executive Vice President of Football/Player Personnel Marty Hurney and General Manager Martin Mayhew, when did discussions begin about how you wanted to attack the offseason?

 

Let’s just start with bringing Marty and Martin in. In sitting down with Mr. [Daniel] Snyder and interviewing both of them, [we] came to the conclusion that if it’s possible to have them both, can we? So we decided to do that.

For Year 1 of Washington’s rebuild, Ron Rivera leaned on past experiences and advice from the Bills

One of the things we talked about was team speed. Getting faster, period. If there was something that we were concerned about, it was that.

 

The next thing we talked about was at wide receiver and at defensive back. We also talked about shoring up the depth, the emphasis being on position flex, predominantly on the offensive line, and then saying, “If we’re going to try and build this roster and try and keep as many of our current guys that we can that we’ve drafted — they’ve played very big roles for us — how can we do that?”

 

The biggest thing [was] to make sure that we have guys that fit the salary structure that we’re hoping to build and maintain, and make sure that we hit on those guys in the draft.

 

How much of your approach to this year is due to the defense’s play last year, to where you can rely more on that side? Did that group exceed your expectations?

I would say they exceeded my expectations. But looking at what’s gone on in the league lately — I love what they did in San Francisco as far as their defense, and I love what they’ve built in Buffalo. I’ve got close ties to both those guys, [Coach Sean McDermott] and [GM Brandon Beane], so I talk to those guys and I listen to what they have to say. It’s interesting because I watched Coach [Andy] Reid and saw what Coach has done.

 

If you can keep that defensive front as strong as possible, it’s going to help your secondary. What Buffalo did with their secondary and their middle linebacker, they got guys that can all run, so that was the thought on defensive speed. But then you look at Kansas City and look at all that speed they got everywhere, at all their positions on offense, you sit there and go, “Man, we want to be fast like that.”

 

Then shoring up the offensive line, a great example of not having enough depth — and I don’t know if Kansas City could’ve had enough depth, because of all the injuries they had — but [the Chiefs’ loss in the Super Bowl] just showed me how important all that was.

 

Having conversations, they either added on to or reaffirmed what I’ve been thinking and that was we had to get faster — on the defensive side in the secondary, and the offensive side at our skill positions — and we had to make sure we have as much quality depth on the offense line.

 

Where did quarterback come in with those early conversations?

 

That was one of the topics when I was talking to all the [GM] candidates [to] see where everybody was at. The two guys that were probably the most similar were Martin and Marty. It was either, “Hey, we got to go out and identify that guy in the draft right away, and what are we willing to give up if we do that?” And two is, “If we don’t want to give that up, where can we be with our quarterback situation if we got a veteran guy?”

 

We all know there’s only one Tom Brady and he’s already busy. So we took a long look at a lot of the veteran guys and, other than Matthew Stafford, the next guy that appealed the most to us was Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

So was Stafford “Plan A?”

Stafford and Ryan and a couple of those other guys I can’t name because it’s tampering. As you remember, the Stafford [trade from the Lions to the Rams] went very quickly. So we had to finish the rest of our discussions in terms of do we want to go really young, young, or do we continue to look for that veteran guy?

 

 

 

Was it preferable to get a veteran?

Yes, because of what it potentially would have cost us [to trade up in the draft]. To do the things that we want to do, we’ve got to hit on draft picks right now because that helps keep your salary cap in control.

 

Going into the draft, were you still eyeing a quarterback if the price was right, or had your focus shifted to other positions?

I think for right now, the focus has shifted to shoring up the rest of the positions. Again, there’s nothing that says Ryan Fitzpatrick can’t be the guy for a while. If this dude continues to play at the level he has and with Brady showing everybody that these veteran guys can do it — just ask Phil Mickelson, he’ll tell you — then why not? Why would we want to move on?

At the same time, we have a guy we have confidence in Taylor [Heinicke], we have confidence in Kyle [Allen], and we got a very young player in Steven Montez. So we’re kind of in an interesting position right now.

 

 

Did signing Fitzpatrick influence other free agent decisions?

We were looking for that speed receiver and Curtis [Samuel] was always on our mind. Our concern was Curtis was going to go right away. When things slowed down on the wide receiver market, we thought, wait a minute, and then that’s when we pursued Curtis.

 

We wanted to try to re-sign Ronald Darby, but with William Jackson still sitting out there, we said, “Hey, let’s take another look,” and we did. That was great because that conversation I had with Mr. Snyder and explained to him what we’d want to do and how we want to do it and that it wouldn’t impact us in a negative fashion as far as the cap was concerned, he was all for it: “Go for it. Do what you need to do, Coach. We’re good with it.”

 

Signing both guys helped create the ripple effect for Adam Humphries, as far as being able to add another piece to what we think is going to be a very good offensive puzzle. With the vertical speed that we now have and then drafting Dyami [Brown] and getting Dax Milne, we think we added some pretty good receiving pieces. We got AGG [Antonio Gandy-Golden] who’s out there, we’ve got Cam Sims who’s out there. We got some really good pieces going forward.

 

 

 

Were there Day 1 quarterbacks you really liked and were willing to make a move to get?

Oh yeah. I can’t go into who they are for league reasons. One for sure. The asking price was just too much. … We don’t feel a need to mortgage the future.

 

So were you all in on one prospect? Any disagreement?

We were in on probably one guy for sure. There was one other guy we were looking at closely. If the circumstances had suited us, it could have worked. But the biggest thing we had to look at was how it was going to impact our future.

 

..Why did you feel Jamin Davis was the must-have player at No. 19 overall?

You have to have linebackers who can run. We were in Carolina, we had Luke [Kuechly] and we had Thomas Davis. What we lacked was that third guy that could run, just flat out run, because if something were to happen to Luke or Thomas, we’d be deficient at that position. The speed takes a guy from being a solid player to being an impact player, in my opinion. When we were in Carolina, we did that one year and, lo and behold, that guy [Shaq Thompson], his rookie year he becomes part of our crew and we got better.

 

At that position, we were looking for a high-impact guy, and that’s who Jamin was as far as we were concerned.

 

...Do you worry about the window closing on the defense?

Whether you can extend that window talks about whether or not you could draft well to replace those guys. When I was in Carolina, we had guys that, if they had been healthy, if they had worked out, we could have taken that window and stretched it. But it didn’t work that way.

I think there are windows. But you try to keep that window open as much as possible by being successful in replacing players.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Thinking more about that scheme explanation in the Athletic article gives me a better appreciation of why the football world seemed to be so high on the value of Jeremiah Owusu-Koromoah before draft day.  Daniel Jeremiah had him #15 on his final board, for example.  His heart condition is ultimately what made him drop, but if that doesn't limit him in his playing career, then the Browns might have gotten incredible value with him in the second.

 

He could end up being the best star or buffalo nickel in the NFL.  Probably between him and Isaiah Simmons and Derwin James as the most talented prospects to come out in the last five years to play that specific role.  And of the three, Owusu-Koromoah is the one who gives you the best box so you wouldn't have to rotate anyone else at the position while he is healthy.  He's your star for every match up, even against the most physical run games.

 

Kind of makes me think that if Curl hadn't had such a good rookie year, we would have doubled up in the draft and picked Owusu-Koromoah in the second instead of Cosmi.

Forgot about Jamal Adams.  He's probably the best star nickel in the NFL, but I assume he splits his time at safety.