The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I thought Troy Brown retired? Isn't he like 50?  

I think thats Tim Brown, who'd be a perfect comparison to TMac if we're lucky. Even down to the QB carousel. 

[ExoDus84]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

YES. MORE OF THIS.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by ExoDus84

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[ILikeBilly]

40 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I am pretty sure Bird was drafted by the eagles.  Coaches decided he was too small to be an eagle, so they let him fly the coop.  We are lucky to have him.  I have seen him on the field during offensive, defensive and special team snaps.  He sometimes lacks discipline and just wings it.  But he's fast.  He can really fly......😁

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think thats Tim Brown, who'd be a perfect comparison to TMac if we're lucky. Even down to the QB carousel. 

 

Tim Brown would solve our problems with "meh' kick off-punt returns. 😀  Troy Brown from what I watched in camp look pretty good.  Sure hands.  Some bust.   I think they try to get him on their practice squad.  

[wit33]

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

McLaurin is always going to be a little underrated when compared to guys like AJ Brown and DK Metcalf, because most people have a clear size bias when it comes to WRs. They love the big physical freaks. McLaurin doesn’t really qualify for that title when compared to those guys (even though he’s 6’0” and runs a 4.35 40). I think it’s an idiotic way of looking at things, but plenty of people do. Terry’s just gonna have to outproduce those guys consistently to get put ahead of them. 
 

 

Old narrative about bigger WRs getting more love. The game has evolved to point 160 pound Wrs are getting drafted in round 1. With that said, bigger WRs who are fast have potential for a higher ceiling. I mean, size does have value, right? 
 

Ya, I’m one of those people lol I think Metcalf has traits and the game to be an all time great. Haven’t watched enough of Brown. 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Based on their roster moves, it looks like the Pats are going to incorporate an element of the Ravens offense.  A running QB, with a good O line with multiple TEs.

 

Indeed. I think they’ll incorporate the short passing game much more effectively than the Ravens with a great deal of it coming from their RBs (Ravens don’t do a good job of getting their backs involved in the passing game). Pats and Cam have a long history of doing so. 
 

Cam will be at 2% or so of the cap and bring elite running potential to the offense. 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not saying you are saying otherwise.  My take on the QB spot from the context of FA is that the main plot of the narrative is the market itself.  It's not like teams can choose in FA like going to an ice cream shop and picking whatever flavor suits them.  Elite QBs rarely hit the market.  Ditto great Qbs.  Heck even good QBs rarely hit it.  You are usually choosing among reclamation projects or question marks -- dudes who maybe had a good season or two in the mix of "meh" or someone who was once good like Cam but do they have anything left, maybe a decent but aging QB, etc.  The FA market often forces you to be creative.  Fitz was my favorite FA QB in that context this year.   

 

Clearly a great rookie QB is the ticket.  It's just difficult to do for some teams especially ours.  Maybe the new thing becomes this new drill with QBs trying to strong arm their way out of the current situation -- see Stafford and perhaps in the near future Aaron Rodgers, Watson, Russell Wilson, etc. 

 

No doubt its tougher to manage a roster with a QB getting paid big money.  But most of those teams still seem to be competitive.  Seattle hasn't won a SB post the Wilson contract.  But they are still always relevant, always in the post season.  We'd kill for their post SB run.   Double digit wins every season except one.  Their worst season 9-7.  Playoffs every season but the 9-7 one.  12 wins twice.  That run would be by a mile feel like the glory years for the Dan era. 

 

As for the QBs winning SBs.   They are usually really good players.  The exceptions being streaky players who were famous for getting hot in the clutch.  Eli was known for that.  Foles got hot in the post season.  Flacco for a time was considered a clutch post season guy.  I don't think you are winning SBs with Case Keenum types no matter how cheap the deal is.  At some point the QB play becomes relevant.   Foles and Eli played really really well in the SB.  They were the MVP.  
 

 

We view the Giant runs in a different light, my feeling is the defense led the way. I mean Eli got hot from a TD to Int ratio, but the offense wasn’t the catalyst to their SB runs or good to great. 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Eli had to go toe to toe with Brady for example. He had it in him because when he would get hot, he would get red hot.  It's the same argument a dude from PFF gave for Fitzpatrick.  That is, if Fitzpatrick made the post season, he could have a game out of the blue where he could kill it and if he got hot in the post season you never know.  I think if the goal is a SB, then the twist to perhaps beat a Brady or Mahomes is a lesser QB who is capable of getting red hot in a big game.   
 

 

Brady had to go toe to toe with Spags and that DLine, that’s the narrative I thought mist walk away with in those two SB runs. Not Eli going heads up with Brady. The Giant led offense scored 17 and 21 points in their two SB victories. Not red hot by any means, but yes, his TD to int ratio was good. 
 

I agree there’s a “twist” and speculate it will become a real option for teams in the coming years to win with a middle of the road guy who’s paid a small percentage of the overall cap (the other angle being the rookie QB contract). The QB market seems to have matured from the 2015-2019 days of way overpaying for guys. It seemed if you were a QB starter you were guaranteed 10% of the cap. Weird times for the NFL.  

Just say no to paying the above average guy more than 6% or the cap or so. All in on the rookie contract or cheap middling QB. This model until you hit on a unicorn. 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Tim Brown would solve our problems with "meh' kick off-punt returns. 😀  Troy Brown from what I watched in camp look pretty good.  Sure hands.  Some bust.   I think they try to get him on their practice squad.  

Tim Brown could of had a Jerry Rice career if they traded QBs.

 

To your point about JDR loving the Agap LBer blitzes, I think Davis is going to excel there, but really think Collins will too.

[bowhunter]

52 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Hmmm....he just might fly under the radar this season. The sky is the limit for him  

Edit, was already beat to the punchline

Edited August 4, 2021 by bowhunter

[ExoDus84]

2 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I heard he's already "Tweeting" about it

 

Not going to lie, I honestly expected Chase to explode from that crouched position and sack that bird.

[bowhunter]

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

Not going to lie, I honestly expected Chase to explode from that crouched position and sack that bird.

He and Chase doing a little chirping between plays?

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

7 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

The Athletic has an article about the WR battle.

 

Thinks one of AGG or DeAndre Carter make the team.  But Steve Sims is pushing into the mix.

 

They suspect Milne, Harmon, Wright, Brown are more practice squad guys.  Harmon looks the best of these 4, but he's not a returner on special teams.

 

They mention a few times that several of these guys in previous years alone would be training camp stories and make the team.  But the overall WR talent is just better.

 

 

Not gonna try to figure out how the WR battles play out until the preseason games begin. Lets see who starts dropping passes and running ****ty routes when the game lights are on. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Tim Brown could of had a Jerry Rice career if they traded QBs.

 

To your point about JDR loving the Agap LBer blitzes, I think Davis is going to excel there, but really think Collins will too.

 

It's a good point about Collins.  I agree about Collins.  He is a good blitzer.    Del Rio didn't really have dudes outside of the D line who can bring the heat.  Collins and Davis I think will shine on that front.

 

I recall some on the draft thread (not you) said who cares if the LBs can blitz.  I gather Del Rio cares because he sent his LBs after the QB or threatened the QB with fake blitzes quite a bit in the games I watched. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think thats Tim Brown, who'd be a perfect comparison to TMac if we're lucky. Even down to the QB carousel. 

Ah, you fell folly to exactly what I fell folly to, and had to ask the Great God that is Google for confirmation.  I knew there was a Raider "Brown" starting with a "T." But found out that was Tim.  But I KNEW there was a Troy Brown also.  So I found out there are 2 (somewhat) historic "T. Brown" receivers:

 

Tim Brown, who was mostly a Raider (last season with the Bucs), who was inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame in 2015.

Troy Brown, who made his name on the NE Patriots, where he did a bit of everything, including playing a little bit of DB, and was on the early Patriot SB teams, and a pretty big part of them, given his (wait for it) position flex.  

 

My joke was accurate, as there is a 50 year old Troy Brown who is now coaching somewhere.   (I know because I looked it up BEFORE I posted.)

 

EDIT: Also, I think we need to add to our "Like" options a Matumbo finger-wag, to go along with the thumbs up, trophy, etc.  

Edited August 4, 2021 by Voice_of_Reason

[NickyJ]

All you guys have been going on about Troy Browns and Tim Browns, but I spent the last few hours confusing Troy Brown for Troy Vincent.

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Tim Brown could of had a Jerry Rice career if they traded QBs.

And they played together for a few years with Jon Gruden and Rich Gannon at QB.  Basically got to 5000 yards that season by throwing 7 yards slants to 2 old HOF receivers.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

 

We used to have Ryan Kerrigan.

Who was still a huge drop off.  He was an "ok" rusher last year, but limited in everything else.  

 

I say that acknowledging I probably would have signed him back for a low money, 1 year deal, but I totally understand why they didn't want to.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

We view the Giant runs in a different light, my feeling is the defense led the way. I mean Eli got hot from a TD to Int ratio, but the offense wasn’t the catalyst to their SB runs or good to great. 

 

 

Sure.  But you are stating the obvious about the Giants defenses leading the way.  No one would disagree.  We've all mentioned a million times we are hoping like the Giants, we build a defense like that to help us get to a SB.   I've talked about it plenty. 

 

So no we don't see that differently.  I don't think anyone would.  And I didn't say anything of that kind.  I didn't say Eli led the way.  I said at some point your QB is going to have to have a good game going up against a great QB in a big spot.  If I recall you at one time talked about Eli and Foles being game managers in the SB.  But they weren't.  Eli and Foles won the MVP award for every SB they were in.  Eli going 20-30 in one, just short of 300 yards.   Foles went for almost 400 yards and 3 tds.  Eli had about the same # of yards that Brady did in those games.    The QBs were a big part in those wins.   

 

And my point wasn't that they outplayed Brady.  My point was they could at least do their part to keep pace.  Just like Heinicke did in the playoff game ironically against Brady.  i don't think Heinicke outplayed Brady or is better than him.  But he did enough to let the defense do their thing but unfortunately the defense didn't that day. 

 

Trent Dilfer game managed a SB win, 150 yards or so, but that was eons ago in a different era for the NFL.   Trent Dilfer in his prime would unlikely help beat a Brady or Rodgers or Wilson, etc.  But if you get a good albeit not great QB who gets hot at the right time -- you'll have a fighting chance.  Dilfer outdueling Kerry Collins with both playing less than "meh" -- that's a different era kind of matchup. 

 

The odds that a Keenum or name that type of QB beats one of the big guns in the SB is pretty low IMO.  It doesn't matter how cheap you get them.  

 

29 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Just say no to paying the above average guy more than 6% or the cap or so. All in on the rookie contract or cheap middling QB. This model until you hit on a unicorn. 

 

 

 

 

I do think the actual product is more central than the price.  Yeah you got to factor both variables (product and price at every spot but especially QB) but I don't think the price is more important than the product.    I can get a hot dog that's worth $2 for just $1.  That would be quite a bargain versus paying $32 for a steak that's worth $25.  The hot dog is the better deal.  But its still just a hot dog and its not a great meal regardless of how much of a bargain you got it for.  I think there is a ton of nuance in the debate.  I think more than anything this is the type of thing that keeps GMs up at night.  I think you got to factor a number of things in the soup.  

 

For me, if I am trying to go cheapish and get lucky.  I'd want a dude like Fitz who is streaky and at times clutch like Eli once was versus a dude like Dalton who loses playoff after playoff game.  That's just one example.  But I think there are a lot of permutations to this that makes this debate really complex.  Not saying you are saying otherwise but i am explaining my thought. 

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Prescott still not throwing? I thought he was fully back? Supposedly he will be back by week one but that has to be concerning for Dallas.

[London Kev]

I like everything I see about our WRs so far, except their numbers. I'm old school and like it when they wear 80 numbers, I've grudgingly accepted these new-fangled teen numbers, but a wide receiver wearing number two is just stupid. Sort it out Ron.

 

Cam Sims		-		89
Dax Milne		-		84
Adam Humphries		-		19
Isiah Wright		-		18
Terry McLaurin		-		17
DeAndre Carter		-		16
Steven Sims Jr.		-		15
Kelvin Harmon		-		13
Tony Brown		-		12
Antonio Gandy-Golden		-		11
Dynami Brown		-		2

[Chris 44]

4 minutes ago, London Kev said:

I like everything I see about our WRs so far, except their numbers. I'm old school and like it when they wear 80 numbers, I've grudgingly accepted these new-fangled teen numbers, but a wide receiver wearing number two is just stupid. Sort it out Ron.

 

Cam Sims		-		89
Dax Milne		-		84
Adam Humphries		-		19
Isiah Wright		-		18
Terry McLaurin		-		17
DeAndre Carter		-		16
Steven Sims Jr.		-		15
Kelvin Harmon		-		13
Tony Brown		-		12
Antonio Gandy-Golden		-		11
Dynami Brown		-		2

Any self respecting kicker wouldn't even wear #2!

Even soccer back in the day you played a 2,3,5.  Keeper was 1, right back 2, left back 3 etc.  Damn im old! 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Chris 44

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think anyone thinks its awesome but there are people that think Smith was around average to mediocre. He wasn't even close. Mediocre gets us to 9-7+.

 

Well, he was 5-1 as starter, so he would have had to go 4-6 in the other remaining games. And stay healthy of course.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Califan007

[London Kev]

8 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Any self respecting kicker wouldn't even wear #2!

Well there was Cobra Kai.

[Skinsinparadise]

Mike Garafalo just on NFL Network saying asking around, he's hearing Fitz has outplayed Heinicke in camp thus far.

 

I think though the pre season is going to be interesting, I think that's Heinicke's shot to do his thing.  But right now feels like its going to be Fitz starting.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

We must have had a decent off-season, I haven't heard one mention of Hopkins in quite some time, not even once yet since training camp opened. 

Normally we're all discussing whether or not we need a more consistent kicker because he's the most likely person we're gonna need to score but this year he's been mostly an afterthought. 

 

 

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

We must have had a decent off-season, I haven't heard one mention of Hopkins in quite some time, not even once yet since training camp opened. 

Normally we're all discussing whether or not we need a more consistent kicker because he's the most likely person we're gonna need to score but this year he's been mostly an afterthought. 

 

 

 

Oh **^^, that’s a great point....i completely forgot about him 😂 there’s been no tweets about field goal kicking from training camp. that’s really odd