2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[CommanderDOOM]

You talking bout legends of the game with the knowledge and minds of champions, adjusting...........not someone learnin the nfl with a minus arm.

Edited November 15, 2021 by TheShredSkinz

[philibusters]

21 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

You talking bout legends of the game with the knowledge and minds of champions, adjusting...........not someone learnin the nfl with a minus arm.

 

But Howell and Pickett don't have minus arms.  They are average.   If you want a non legend example, just use the Mac Jones example.

[CommanderDOOM]

Long term success, with a below average to average arm???

Cousins, Rivers, Alex Smith

[FootballZombie]

59 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I mean you look at some of the better QB over the past 20 years who had average to below average arms

 

Tom Brady

Payton Manning

Matt Ryan

Drew Brees

Phillip Rivers

Deshaun Watson

 

Holy sweet baby jeebus do you consider anyone who does not have a warship railgun grafted to their shoulder average? Some of those guys are/were probably top 5 in the NFL for arm strength at various points.

Edited November 15, 2021 by FootballZombie

[Warhead36]

Yeah all those guys have/had good arms. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees arms weren't considered below average until the very end of their careers.

 

You don't necessarily need a howitzer but you need to be able to fit balls into tight windows and make what we call NFL throws on a consistent basis.

[philibusters]

14 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Holy sweet baby jeebus do you consider anyone who does not have a warship railgun grafted to their shoulder average? Some of those guys are/were probably top 5 in the NFL for arm strength at various points.

 

Who in that group had a top 5 arm?   Most QB's in the NFL are by definition going to be average and there are a lot of QB's with big arms in the NFL who are backups.

[philibusters]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah all those guys have/had good arms. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees arms weren't considered below average until the very end of their careers.

 

You don't necessarily need a howitzer but you need to be able to fit balls into tight windows and make what we call NFL throws on a consistent basis.

 

I never said Peyton Manning or Drew Brees had weak arms at their peak.  I said at the end of their careers they had below average arms and they were not the same QB.   However, I don't think any of the guys I listed had big arms at any point in their career.   

 

I saw Steve Marucci talk about Tom Brady on a Youtube video I watched and he basically said the 49'ers didn't really seriously consider Brady because watching him throw in person he was so unimpressive.   He said the  49ers staff watched Brady throw twice in person in the lead up to the draft.  The 49'ers ended up taking a kid out of Hofstra with a big arm who was out of the league in a couple years.  

 

I think two things are causing confusion--first--due to inflation people are understanding average as below average.  Most people are average.   If there are a 120 QB's in the league (inlcuding practice squads) maybe 10 have elite arms and 20 have clear above average arms and like 70 have what I would consider average arms.  That said a lot the backups have bigger arms than starters--average is relative to NFL QB's.   Second I think people remember good QB's as having maybe better arms than they actually have.

[FootballZombie]

18 minutes ago, philibusters said:

Who in that group had a top 5 arm?   Most QB's in the NFL are by definition going to be average and there are a lot of QB's with big arms in the NFL who are backups.

P Manning

 

In Bill Polian's book he said despite the reports of his lacking arm strength, when they got the opportunity to test him out themselves in person, he had one of the strongest arms he had ever seen. The in person workout was a big reason he was drafted as he was able to alleviate the physical fears they had about him.

 

He might not have been top of the NFL, Mahomes-like, but I don't think its fair to consider him average.

[RichmondRedskin88]

1 hour ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Long term success, with a below average to average arm???

Cousins, Rivers, Alex Smith

Kirk actually has a decent arm to air it out.  Rivers absolutely can throw deep.  Alex had a bullet but definitely lacked a real deep ball. All have a significantly better arm than TH strength wise.

Edited November 15, 2021 by RichmondRedskin88

[KDawg]

Those guys don’t have average arms. 
 

They have NFL arms. 
 

Heinicke does not. And it’s literally the one thing that prevents him from being a really, really good quarterback. 
 

Howell has a NFL arm. As does Mac. They aren’t on the top of the list but they have better than average arm strength. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

26 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Those guys don’t have average arms. 
 

They have NFL arms. 
 

Heinicke does not. And it’s literally the one thing that prevents him from being a really, really good quarterback. 
 

Howell has a NFL arm. As does Mac. They aren’t on the top of the list but they have better than average arm strength. 

If Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have below average arms I’d hate to see what our various QBs from 1992 to present would be considered. 

[philibusters]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Howell has a NFL arm. As does Mac. They aren’t on the top of the list but they have better than average arm strength. 

 

I guess when I am using the term average, I am using a different standard than other posters.  I am saying average by NFL standards.   To me Howell and Mac Jones have average arms.  

[philibusters]

4 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

If Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have below average arms I’d hate to see what our various QBs from 1992 to present would be considered. 

 

First I never said they had below average arms.  I am not sure if its grade inflation or what--I say they had average arms.  I do believe Tom Brady's arm was pretty mediocre.

 

If you go to Youtube, NFL films has a film call The Brady 6 which is about the six QB'S taken ahead of him in the 2000 draft.   They do some interviews with personnel of teams about why they didnt' draft him and they outright say--he simply wasn't impressive throwing the ball.  They liked his moxie, but thought his arm strength limited him to a backup spot.   His ceiling was low in their opinion.  

 

Even more recently, with Deshaun Watson there was a consensus he had a ton of game skills leading Clemson to two national championships games and winning one, but that his arm strength limited his ceiling in the NFL because while it was in the average range by NFL standards it was in the lower end of that average range.  Watson was a far better college player than Mitch Trubisky who went 2nd in that draft (Watson went 12th).    I think everybody just assumes any QB who is a good NFL QB is good because they have a strong arm compared to other NFL QB's and it is simply not true.

[Warhead36]

The NFL is all about speed now and utilizing the entire field. You need a QB with an arm that can attack all parts of the field.

 

Heinicke can make quite a few throws but there are some he simply can not and it does limit what our offense can do against certain defenses and matchups. We need a QB who can attack all aspects of a defense.

[Voice_of_Reason]

22 minutes ago, philibusters said:

First I never said they had below average arms.  I am not sure if its grade inflation or what--I say they had average arms.  I do believe Tom Brady's arm was pretty mediocre.

Peyton’s arm early was above average but not Favre/Elway level, which at the time Peyton was coming out would have been the elite arm comparisons.  But it was plenty good enough.  If I recall, Leaf was said to have a bigger arm, which is why there was some debate as to who to take at #1. But Peyton had plenty of arm to make every throw into tight windows.  And he did, repeatedly, for almost 2 decades. 
 

Then the nerve thing happened and his gun became a water pistol.  But he made it work because he could control the game so we’ll from the LOS. 
 

Tom’s arm actual might be one of the rare instance which seemed to get a little stronger after he got to the NFL.  It’s never been elite, but like with Peyton, he can drive the ball into tight windows.  
 

But what allows Brady to be the GOAT with an average-ish arm is the same thing which Montana had: absolute perfection with timing and unreal accuracy.   The ball comes out on time, to the right receiver, and the placement is impeccable. If you’ve got that, you can make up for an average arm.  

 

One thing good or great arm

strength gives you is more margin fir error.  If you are a beat late getting to a read, you can still fire it in there.  Favre made a career of that.  
 

If you don’t have that, you HAVE to be on time and accurate.  
 

What I don’t think TH can do consistently is drive the balls into tight windows or take advantage of the cover-2 “honey hole” which is behind the up-corner and outside the closing safety.  
 

There are going to be days like today where everything works.  But there will be times when it doesn’t.  

 

[Going Commando]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Herbert was one of my guys, i didn't fall for him until later in the process though.  Shows that you can get a good RB in almost any round.   I like Patterson but too bad we didn't go fishing earlier in that draft.  Next year...

 

I liked Herbert too.  How about that KC line that has two of the highest graded rookies starting.  That is super unusual for a line with two rookies beside each other to be killing it, especially one of them playing center.

 

Trey Smith was one of my guys and he'd be on our team if I'd been the one making the draft picks, no hindsight.  Picking Cameron Cheeseman over him was an absolutely idiotic decision that will bother me for the rest of Smith's career.  The dude was a first round talent.

[ium786]

I think this is a good year to draft a QB because it doesn't have to be a top five pick.  This year's QB's can be had with later selections.  We can just ease into our pick, no pressure to have to move up or trade away anything.  Just sit back and relax and let one of these Mac Jones type QB's fall to us.

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Peyton’s arm early was above average but not Favre/Elway level, which at the time Peyton was coming out would have been the elite arm comparisons.  But it was plenty good enough.  If I recall, Leaf was said to have a bigger arm, which is why there was some debate as to who to take at #1. But Peyton had plenty of arm to make every throw into tight windows.  And he did, repeatedly, for almost 2 decades. 
 

Then the nerve thing happened and his gun became a water pistol.  But he made it work because he could control the game so we’ll from the LOS. 
 

Tom’s arm actual might be one of the rare instance which seemed to get a little stronger after he got to the NFL.  It’s never been elite, but like with Peyton, he can drive the ball into tight windows.  
 

But what allows Brady to be the GOAT with an average-ish arm is the same thing which Montana had: absolute perfection with timing and unreal accuracy.   The ball comes out on time, to the right receiver, and the placement is impeccable. If you’ve got that, you can make up for an average arm.  

 

One thing good or great arm

strength gives you is more margin fir error.  If you are a beat late getting to a read, you can still fire it in there.  Favre made a career of that.  
 

If you don’t have that, you HAVE to be on time and accurate.  
 

What I don’t think TH can do consistently is drive the balls into tight windows or take advantage of the cover-2 “honey hole” which is behind the up-corner and outside the closing safety.  
 

There are going to be days like today where everything works.  But there will be times when it doesn’t.  

 

You know who had an insanely powerful arm? Rex mother****ing Grossman. That dude had a cannon. McNabb, too. Those are probably the 2 biggest arms we've had since Rypien. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I liked Herbert too.  How about that KC line that has two of the highest graded rookies starting.  That is super unusual for a line with two rookies beside each other to be killing it, especially one of them playing center.

 

Trey Smith was one of my guys and he'd be on our team if I'd been the one making the draft picks, no hindsight.  Picking Cameron Cheeseman over him was an absolutely idiotic decision that will bother me for the rest of Smith's career.  The dude was a first round talent.

 

Yeah I liked Trey Smith as well, no hindsight from me either on that.  Heck before his last college season he was seen by some as a late first-2nd rounder.    I called for him in the draft thread at the time too.  Yeah agree about Cheeseman.    6th round had some nice prospects.  I hate drafting for need which is what they seem to do at times in that draft. 

 

The 4th-7th round they went against my board so speak quite a bit with the exception of Milne who I liked.  And I did call for Patterson in the mix of 7th rounders I liked so them getting him as an UDFA I liked.  I admit though I didn't study the pass rushers so I didn't now squat about Toney and Bradley-King.

 

Even though I pushed Jamin Davs, i saw him as a trade down in the first guy, not at 19.  I wanted JOK bad there.  And I recall you did, too.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[philibusters]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I liked Trey Smith as well, no hindsight from me either on that.  Heck before his last college season he was seen by some as a late first-2nd rounder.    I called for him in the draft thread at the time too.  Yeah agree about Cheeseman.    6th round had some nice prospects.  I hate drafting for need which is what they seem to do at times in that draft. 

 

The 4th-7th round they went against my board so speak quite a bit with the exception of Milne who I liked.  And I did call for Patterson in the mix of 7th rounders I liked so them getting him as an UDFA I liked.  I admit though I didn't study the pass rushers so I didn't now squat about Toney and Bradley-King.

 

Even though I pushed Jamin Davs, i saw him as a trade down in the first guy, not at 19.  I wanted JOK bad there.  And I recall you did, too.

 

If I recall Steve ranked the LB'ers Collins, JOK, then Davis.  For what its worth Collins played pretty well before his injury, but he was only playing one third of Arizona's snaps.  I liked the Toney pick because I watched him enough at Penn St. to know he was a good college player.  

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

If I recall Steve ranked the LB'ers Collins, JOK, then Davis.  For what its worth Collins played pretty well before his injury, but he was only playing one third of Arizona's snaps.  I liked the Toney pick because I watched him enough at Penn St. to know he was a good college player.  

 

I was Parsons, JOK, Davis, Collins.  I liked them all but to different degrees.  I though Davis was a better scheme fit to Collins who I saw as having more potential as an OLB versus Will-MLB.   I talked a ton about JOK.  I ended up talking a lot about Jamin because of a Jamin versus Collins debate.    I did my own rankings of every spot at the time and put it on the thread, this was my one for LB.  Barnes was my favorite sleeper among them. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

There are a great many backers we could have taken that would have helped over the last several years. There's absolutely no need to re-hash it, though. Davis is looking pretty good right now and Holcomb isn't getting exposed. 

 

For the record, Logan Wilson, Pete Werner, Isaiah Simmons, Derrick Barnes are all playing quality football. Davis-Gaither has started coming around but he's now out for the season. I liked Kenneth Murray big time last year. He got hurt but has been a real problem when he's on the field for offenses.

 

[Koolblue13]

SAM is definitely going to be a big need heading into this draft, along with FS and CB.

[Skinsinparadise]

Another dude I pushed but I should have pushed even more last year.  Football life here would be different IMO if they grabbed him.  😢

 

 

 

Back to reality, 2022.  No way we are going OG in the first

 

 

8.

Washington

Ikem Ekwonu

IOL, NC State

Another big riser up the boards is North Carolina State’s Ikem Ekwonu. Ekwonu starts at left tackle for the Wolfpack and has been absolutely sensational this season. Entering the year, we knew about his raw power and explosiveness upon contact—especially in the run game. What we still had questions about were his ability to move laterally and what type of range he had playing left tackle and lining up against speed rushers. Many folks in the industry believed he would likely be shifted inside to guard, but he has certainly quieted that noise and definitely appears to be a franchise left tackle. For Washington, adding Ekwonu would go a long way in solidifying this offensive line for whenever they find their next franchise quarterback.

9.

Jets

Andrew Booth Jr.

CB, Clemson

This corner class is one of the best we have seen in quite some time and I’m sure I’ll be repeating that sentence more than a few times throughout this mock. One of my favorite ones in this class is Clemson’s Andrew Booth Jr. Booth is a good-sized corner with outstanding quickness and fluidity. He can mirror man-to-man in the short and intermediate areas of the field while also possessing very good deep speed to cover vertically. His instincts and awareness in coverage are outstanding and he has rare ball skills and body control to make plays on the football. He would provide the Jets with a much-needed playmaker on the backend.

10.

Dolphins

Charles Cross

OT, Mississippi State

The selection of Austin Jackson was a swing and a miss for the Dolphins. He has truly been awful this season and is a liability for whoever starts at quarterback for this team next season. The selection of Charles Cross makes a ton of sense, as he is an excellent prospect with a good blend of length and athleticism. He is light on his feet and can mirror in pass protection while also showing much improvement in his punch and physicality in the run game. Cross projects as a plug-and-play left tackle, which is exactly what this football team needs. 

11.

Eagles

DeMarvin Leal

IDL, Texas A&M

One of my favorite players in this class, DeMarvin Leal is an absolute force. Leal is a big and powerful defensive lineman who has the versatility to play everywhere along the defensive line. With outstanding movement skills and explosiveness for a man his size, he can win with speed and quickness inside and also has power to displace guards with a bull rush. His fit with the Eagles makes a ton of sense as Fletcher Cox isn’t getting younger. 

12.

Falcons

Trevor Penning

OT, Northern Iowa

Trevor Penning was a fun study I did back in the summer. He plays such low-level competition that you hope when you watch him he would dominate, and dominate he did. Penning is a long and strong tackle who plays with a tremendous mean streak. He looks to end people upon contact and always plays through this whistle. Penning also has very good movement skills and foot quickness to mirror in pass protection and has shown above-average range. The Falcons need to address this offensive line which has been beaten up this year. 

13.

Vikings

Jordan Davis

IDL, Georgia

A player many were surprised came back for his senior season, Jordan Davis has boosted his stock from a potential day-two pick to a surefire top-20 selection. Davis has been a force to be reckoned with inside the Bulldogs’ defensive line. He has rare size and strength and cannot be blocked one on one. While he was always a strong run defender being an immovable force, he has now shown an ability to win as a pass rusher, showing surprising burst for a man his size. Davis would be a tremendous fit in the Vikings defensive line that has been searching for an impact player inside.

14.

Broncos

Matt Corral

QB, Ole Miss

This is just simply not the most exciting quarterback class—especially when you compare it to the past two years. That being said, there are some passers in this class that possess an intriguing skill set. Matt Corral has been the most consistent of this year’s crop and has certainly helped his stock. He has a live arm, is a good athlete, and is an accurate thrower to all levels of the field. One thing I love about Corral is his instincts and creativity in the pocket, which are very reminiscent of Joe Burrow. Now that he has cut down on his turnovers, Corral has a chance to be the first quarterback off the board. The Broncos have swung and missed on just about every move they have made at the position and take another at-bat here. 

[Koolblue13]

I was hoping for Mac in the first and Bolton in the second. Both went before our picks.