2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[kingdaddy]

5 minutes ago, Whiskeypeet said:

The team just swung at Haskins and many folks (beyond dumb ass Dan) thought he was viable pre-draft.  He is a stark reminder that making a swing simply for the sake of doing so is a bad idea.  Its possible Howell is a good option (random choide 😀) , but its also possible he's Haskins and I want these guys in the FO to be long-term strategic with their choices.  If the plan is to swing every single year until they get their guy, it might work but not how i would approach it.

 

 

 

Thats what the Browns have been doing....keep swinging til you hit and they haven't come close to a franchise QB. 

This is a great debate and no one is wrong, it's exactly the dilemma NFL teams face.

The NYG STILL think Daniel Jones is the answer!!!!!

[Whiskeypeet]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I did not believe Haskins was a good choice. But I admired the swing. He had the tools. Just lacked some of the technique, the work ethic and a fostering organization. I think we waited too long to swing again, though. 

Well, i suspect you think (or at least at the time) taking Chase was okay but last year's absence of "swinging" was poor.  I agree and agreed at the time.  This year's draft feels different to me, but I'm not expert.  Either way, I'll defer to their long term plan and hope they do the same.

[Whiskeypeet]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Thats what the Browns have been doing....keep swinging til you hit and they haven't come close to a franchise QB. 

This is a great debate and no one is wrong, it's exactly the dilemma NFL teams face.

The NYG STILL think Daniel Jones is the answer!!!!!

Good analogies, except I don't think the Brown have kept swinging.  Perhaps the should have, although they are like Washington in that they've been just too good to be in draft slots necessary to upgrade.  Either way, the NYG are a perfect example of a team that should have consider the swing-away mentality.....at least in hind sight.  Maybe Jones beomes a reclamation project with success for the new staff, only time will tell.  But if you want to wait for time, you can also go ahead and kill the swing until you miiss appraoch.

[kingdaddy]

It's all about having assets to be able to take the big swing when the opportunity presents itself. Philly has three 1sts in this years draft and if they're smart they can take that capital and use it over the next 2-3 drafts until there's a guy they want to pounce on. This year doesn't seem to be the year to jump on a franchise QB because there isn't one coming out. They could trade back with one or two of their 1sts this year and keep picking up draft picks for down the road until they fall in love with someone. That's kicking the can down the road somewhat but it's also smart and patient. And in the meantime maybe someone falls into your lap and you have something? 

[KDawg]

19 minutes ago, Whiskeypeet said:

Well, i suspect you think (or at least at the time) taking Chase was okay but last year's absence of "swinging" was poor.  I agree and agreed at the time.  This year's draft feels different to me, but I'm not expert.  Either way, I'll defer to their long term plan and hope they do the same.

 

I thought Chase was a lot more flawed than anyone else. I did several write ups on what he lacked (and had).

 

I discussed Tu’a as an option, only dismayed by his injury.

 

I was hoping Cincy did something dumb and took Chase #1 OR the reports of their love of Herbert from the Senior Bowl had them take him…

 

I was hoping Burrow fell to 2 and took away that temptation for Young and we got the QB.

 

Given the way the draft shook out it was hard to pass on Young.

 

But I believed Simmons was more talented, just at a less premium position. 
 

I actually very much disliked the Haskins pick once I heard it was Snyder and not the football guys swinging. Add that to how I felt about him myself and I was uneasy. But open minded. 
 

I think we missed last year not trading up for Fields. Or even Jones. Badly. Exacerbated by Fitzpatrick’s injury. 
 

I like 3 QBs quite a bit in this draft, 1 well enough and still one more… passably. 
 

If they come in and show promise and their teammates think they can turn into something and they work I’m okay with giving them another year even if the results aren’t perfect. If they look like a total flop I’ll be looking at QB prospects again.

Edited February 5, 2022 by KDawg

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Whiskeypeet said:

Good analogies, except I don't think the Brown have kept swinging.  Perhaps the should have, although they are like Washington in that they've been just too good to be in draft slots necessary to upgrade.  Either way, the NYG are a perfect example of a team that should have consider the swing-away mentality.....at least in hind sight.  Maybe Jones beomes a reclamation project with success for the new staff, only time will tell.  But if you want to wait for time, you can also go ahead and kill the swing until you miiss appraoch.

Browns missed on Tim Couch and it looks like Baker Mayfield....both top picks in the draft. Picks that have continued to set them back for years and years. Regardless, we're on the same page....finding a franchise QB might be the hardest thing to do in all of pro sports?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

Browns missed on Tim Couch and it looks like Baker Mayfield....both top picks in the draft. Picks that have continued to set them back for years and years. Regardless, we're on the same page....finding a franchise QB might be the hardest thing to do in all of pro sports?

Tim Couch was drafted in 1999. He and Mayfield don’t constitute constant swinging. Also, I’m not sold on him being a bust. He’s just not a top 10 guy. They have even beyond relevant since he went to Cleveland… especially compared to years prior… but then again they were throwing games (allegedly)

[mistertim]

28 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Browns missed on Tim Couch and it looks like Baker Mayfield....both top picks in the draft. Picks that have continued to set them back for years and years. Regardless, we're on the same page....finding a franchise QB might be the hardest thing to do in all of pro sports?

 

How have those picks "set them back years"? It's not like they were headed to the SB without a good QB.

 

You know what actually does set you back years? Kicking the can down the road on finding a QB.

[kingdaddy]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Tim Couch was drafted in 1999. He and Mayfield don’t constitute constant swinging. Also, I’m not sold on him being a bust. He’s just not a top 10 guy. They have even beyond relevant since he went to Cleveland… especially compared to years prior… but then again they were throwing games (allegedly)

Yep, and our misses on Heath Shuler and RGlll stand out as swings and misses that we took when we had high 1st round picks. Add Haskins to these two and we're 0 for 3. 

The list goes on and on....taking your swings is definitely one approach but when you miss with any 1st round pick the ramifications are not good. They set you back big time. I'm cool with taking a QB in the 1st round this year if the scouts think the guys a solid prospect...I just hope we don't reach for one or even worse trade future assets for a guy thats not a sure thing. 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2022/draft-crushing-malik-willis

 

I think the QB hopefuls and Willis fans will like the interview segment of that QB. 

 

Some other tidbits.

 

Quote

Oklahoma defensive lineman Perrion Winfrey was dominant for the second consecutive day, stripping Arizona State running back Rachaad White on one play and camping out in the backfield on several others. Winfrey has had the best two days of practice I have seen from a Senior Bowl defender since Aaron Donald.

 

High praise.

 

Quote

...Walkthrough is convinced Strong has a B-grade NFL arm that is being talked up as an A+++ arm...

 

Doesn't think Strong has the goods.

 

Quote

Carson Strong says he patterns his game off Brett Favre and Peyton Manning. Setting aside the fact that both of those players were long gone by the time Strong grew into young adulthood, how on earth does a quarterback model his game on both Favre AND Peyton simultaneously?

 

That's kind of a good point.

 

Quote

North Dakota State's Christian Watson is a tall drink of water who extends his arms well to snatch contested balls, but he has not gotten much separation.

 

uh oh

 

 

[Going Commando]

I've seen the way Strong throws field side outs and vertical routes.  He's got a strong arm.  He needs get his cleats into the ground to drive the ball, but he doesn't need a lot of time or space to do that.  It's a compact release and really casual looking footwork to set up.

 

Arm strength isn't his superpower anyway, the accuracy and really natural looking placement is where I think he is excellent.  Accurate on all different kinds of throws.  He's got natural touch and throws a wonderfully catchable ball and that ability to just feel exactly where the ball needs to go and how to get it there is it's own kind of God-given talent.

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, Going Commando said:

I've seen the way Strong throws field side outs and vertical routes.  He's got a strong arm.  He needs get his cleats into the ground to drive the ball, but he doesn't need a lot of time or space to do that.  It's a compact release and really casual looking footwork to set up.

 

Arm strength isn't his superpower anyway, the accuracy and really natural looking placement is where I think he is excellent.  Accurate on all different kinds of throws.  He's got natural touch and throws a wonderfully catchable ball and that ability to just feel exactly where the ball needs to go and how to get it there is it's own kind of God-given talent.

@no drawers mcqueen , where would you place now before the game? Has Strong shown enough to move into the bottom of the 1st?

I feel he has surpassed Ridder moving into this slot. All the potential bilt up in Ridder yet such inconsistency has me moving him out of the first round

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[VaK9Trainer]

The more I watch Carson Strong the more I'm falling in Love with this kid. He's got a cannon for an arm and that ball comes out quick with good velocity. There's no waiting on the ball from the receiver. He hits them in stride. His ball placement is excellent as well. He has a very Tom Brady-esque look about him. His throws are just effortless like Bradys were. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, VaK9Trainer said:

The more I watch Carson Strong the more I'm falling in Love with this kid. He's got a cannon for an arm and that ball comes out quick with good velocity. There's no waiting on the ball from the receiver. He hits them in stride. His ball placement is excellent as well. He has a very Tom Brady-esque look about him. His throws are just effortless like Bradys were. 

I’m not a big Pickett guy. I don’t see it. I’d be okay with him but I think he’s my fifth choice right now. But this game can do a lot for him.

 

He checked down for most of the college season this season. Or designed short passes. He throws a beautiful drop in the bucket ball when his receivers are behind the defense, though. He’s most accurate of all the passers with an open receiver. He’s good on the move too. 
 

I don’t dislike Pickett. I just don’t think he’s the best prospect. Or near the top.

 

Strong is a mixed bag for me still. 
 

Going into the Senior Bowl:

 

1) Willis

2) Howell/Corral

3) Strong/Pickett

4) Zappe

5) Ridder

[mistertim]

12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Yep, and our misses on Heath Shuler and RGlll stand out as swings and misses that we took when we had high 1st round picks. Add Haskins to these two and we're 0 for 3. 

The list goes on and on....taking your swings is definitely one approach but when you miss with any 1st round pick the ramifications are not good. They set you back big time. I'm cool with taking a QB in the 1st round this year if the scouts think the guys a solid prospect...I just hope we don't reach for one or even worse trade future assets for a guy thats not a sure thing. 

 

I think you're really overstating how much missing on a 1st round pick sets a team back. Now, in terms of the RG3 trade, yes...we gave up a boatload and it didn't go well. But just in general if you swing and miss on a 1st round QB it's not that huge of a deal. That's why you keep trying.

 

Consider the situation. Let's say we didn't select Shuler or Haskins or Campbell, but instead we decided to build the team and select a DE, OT, WR, CB, whatever. What do you think the chances are that that person we selected instead would have put us over the top and we'd be going to a Super Bowl? Basically none. 

 

So the outcome for us of a bust 1st round QB and not picking a QB at all in terms of heading to the big game is the same: we go nowhere. But if one of those QBs we selected had worked out and become an elite NFL QB? Then we'd likely be perennial contenders and in the playoffs almost every year and would have a much clearer path to a SB victory.

 

This obviously isn't me saying that you only select QBs in the first round and other positions aren't important. But it means that QB has to come first. You swing and swing until you hit on one. Then, when you hit on one, you can focus like a laser on making sure the team around him is top notch.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think you're really overstating how much missing on a 1st round pick sets a team back. Now, in terms of the RG3 trade, yes...we gave up a boatload and it didn't go well. But just in general if you swing and miss on a 1st round QB it's not that huge of a deal. That's why you keep trying.

 

Consider the situation. Let's say we didn't select Shuler or Haskins or Campbell, but instead we decided to build the team and select a DE, OT, WR, CB, whatever. What do you think the chances are that that person we selected instead would have put us over the top and we'd be going to a Super Bowl? Basically none. 

 

So the outcome for us of a bust 1st round QB and not picking a QB at all in terms of heading to the big game is the same: we go nowhere. But if one of those QBs we selected had worked out and become an elite NFL QB? Then we'd likely be perennial contenders and in the playoffs almost every year and would have a much clearer path to a SB victory.

 

This obviously isn't me saying that you only select QBs in the first round and other positions aren't important. But it means that QB has to come first. You swing and swing until you hit on one. Then, when you hit on one, you can focus like a laser on making sure the team around him is top notch.

Haskins only set us back for 2 reasons…

 

1) Because he was Snyder’s pick we had to trade back up to get the scout’s pick.

 

2) We should have drafted one in Ron’s first year and we didn’t. 

[Ball Security]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Haskins only set us back for 2 reasons…

 

1) Because he was Snyder’s pick we had to trade back up to get the scout’s pick.

 

2) We should have drafted one in Ron’s first year and we didn’t. 

A McLaurin/Pittman (taken by Indy with our pick) would be a really nice combo.

[Koolblue13]

Swinging and missing on a mediocre QB instead of nailing a potential probowl CB or LBer doesn't help this team at all.

[KDawg]

20 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

KDawg, thoughts on Christian Harris? I think he’s physical and can get downhill and I also like him in coverage. 

 

I like Christian Harris. He really pops on film and when you watch him... But I didn't watch a whole lot from 2021 on him yet. Alabama linebackers tend to peak early and then... slow down.

 

I think Jordan Battle is the star of the Bama defense, though. And I think he'd fit VERY well with us in the Buffalo Nickel spot. But he's going back to Bama for another season.

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Swinging and missing on a mediocre QB instead of nailing a potential probowl CB or LBer doesn't help this team at all.

 

Same can be said in reverse as well, though.

 

Swinging and missing on a CB who Jeff Okudah's us or another linebacker that doesn't turn out to be what we thought he was doesn't help the team at all.

 

Bottom line is: If the position you draft hits, it helps the team. If the position you draft doesn't hit, it doesn't help the team. I know that sounds entirely too simple but it's true.

 

But a quarterback, even mediocre, who finds success is going to help a lot more than a linebacker or corner.

 

The debate then, in my opinion, becomes is it better to find the mediocre QB who helps more but leads you to more mediocrity or to draft the guy who helps less in the short term but allows a strong presence when/if you find the franchise quarterback?

 

I think you can get a Derek Carr level prospect at pick 11. And that is much more helpful than Stingley (who had a bad year) or Lloyd.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, VaK9Trainer said:

The more I watch Carson Strong the more I'm falling in Love with this kid. He's got a cannon for an arm and that ball comes out quick with good velocity. There's no waiting on the ball from the receiver. He hits them in stride. His ball placement is excellent as well. He has a very Tom Brady-esque look about him. His throws are just effortless like Bradys were. 

 

Big game for him.  Judging purely on reports he got off to a hot start on day 1 of practice but its been mixed play after that.

 

I've watched him any chance I've could this previous season, so at least in my mind I have a good reference point to compare then to now.  So the key for me is to see if his mobility has indeed improved the further he is removed from that surgery.  I've heard mixed things on that too so I want to see it for myself today. 

 

He defintely is intrguing to me. 

[Mooka]

Drafting Haskins did not set us back. Swing and a miss. Not drafting a QB in the following 2 drafts is what set us back.

 

Draft a QB, and draft one again in 2023 if they're better. ****, draft 2 QBs in 2023 if there's going to be so much talent. 

 

Remember that the best QB we've seen in this franchise in decades was Cousins and we drafted him after trading the farm for RG3 which made no sense at the time. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am ok with Pickett, I don't love him, he's not as high on my list as some.  But I am OK with him.  And I keep harping on his personality - i really dig.  If it was a personality contest he'd be my top guy. 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Inigo Montoya]

Pickett is below Corrall and Howell for me and probably Willis, I don’t know enough about Strongs situation. But he could be below strong for me too. I would only take Pickett in a trade back scenario 

[BC-Redskins]

Not a fan of Pickett he’s below the others for me 

 

Willis / Howell / corral 

like more and more of strong but depends on his knee and mobility for me.

this draft could be very interesting