2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Silvernon]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Come on man that's crazy. Davis has shown next to nothing so far in the NFL and you're comparing him to a GOAT tier LB and Rice, while not a HOF-er, was an outstanding DE whom Young hasn't come close to approaching yet.

 

Young and Davis aren't even Phillip Daniels/Marcus Washington yet let alone two guys who were cornerstones to an all time great defense.

We shall see. 

 

I have more faith in Davis becoming Rice than Young becoming Brooks level, but we'll see.

 

Clearly it takes awhile for Davis to digest the D and for it to be second nature. We will know one way or another next year. It should be evident. 

 

I see a lot of people ragging on Del Dio and this D, and I have given my share of criticisms, but they are only a couple pieces away from being elite. And they need their arguably most talented player (Young) to put his head down and produce. It's not far off.

 

Maybe I am crazy. 

[philibusters]

8 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

 

I felt Nick Cross played out of position at Maryland last year so Maryland could play their best two safeties (Cross and Mosley).   Cross played FS, but I think his skill set is more SS.   Cross is good against the run and showed play making ability in that he made a lot of plays on the ball but he also made his share of mistakes in coverage.  I remember one time he had man to man coverage on Jahan Dotson and Dotson got him turned around on the first move and Penn St got like a 60 yard TD.  He ran a 10.77 100 meters in HS and 22.0 200 meters so Cross has the 4.4 speed to play centerfield. https://md.milesplit.com/athletes/7631575-nick-cross/stats He is listed at 6'1 215 so he has good size for a safety so you not sacrificing size to get his speed.   I think if used correctly he could be a starter in the NFL.   Maryland lead the Big 10 in percentage of defense they played man coverage this past season and Cross was solid but made mistakes, but he had tough assignments for a safety.   Given his size he could probably do well in that Buffalo Nickle role that Landon Collins played last year though he probably doesn't have the instincts Collins has around the line of scrimmage.  If we went Devin Lloyd, Carson Strong, Offensive Tackle withour first three picks, Cross could be a decent pick for the 4th round or so.

 

The first play of this Youtube video is the play I mentioned where Dotson burned him...

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by philibusters

[Koolblue13]

I've been high on cross for a while. Got a good story, position of need, local. Seems like an easy 4rth rounder.

[Chump Bailey]

Oregon FS Verone McKinley III is interesting.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

This is less about what I think will happen and more about what I'd like. I honestly wouldn't mind spending pick 11 on a MLB, but I would still like a backup plan. And I like Holcomb / Davis there more than I like Bostic or Mayo there. 

 

Ron's getting a lot of heat from radio and fans for drafting an outside guy and trying to play him inside but I liked the idea then and I don't hate it now. What he saw in him in ability is something that could be valuable in the middle. If Davis could be more instinctive there and less reactionary then it can still work. But its not what I'd call for. Remember that we took Lemar Marshall from weakside and played him inside and Antonio Pierce from weakside and played him inside. Its not an out of nowhere idea. It didn't work this year but I wouldn't give up on it just yet. 

 

Honestly this isn't as big of a deal to me. I just want these two on the field more. If we sign or draft somebody who has speed and instincts then I'll probably care less about who's making the play but I don't want to invest in Mayo/Bostic as our starting MLBs. 

 

I spent a lot of time on Jamin Davis last year.  I put up a lot of posts on him.  The criticism of him before the draft was he wasn't quick to diagnose, can play a beat behind some plays, and he didn't shed blocks well.  He was more like a Reuben Foster, fast, with side line to side line range, weakside LB, not a Mike.  He's a good open field tackler.  Can run with TEs, etc.

 

So playing him at Mike IMHO plays to his weaknesses not to his strengths.  Keim said after that draft some of the personnel people he spoke to didn't think Jamin would adjust to Mike LB well, some thought he could.

 

It strikes me weird that a dude who is slowish to diagnose plays himself,with only a year of college experience, is the dude to be the London Fletcher type diagnose plays for the whole unit.  I think the thought process behind it was more based on wishful thinking and maybe we could coach him that way versus based on his college tape.

 

Sounds like Rivera after testing Jamin on that front decided he's better suited to outside.  It makes all the sense in the world to me.

 

As far as Holcomb, i've heard multiple beat reporters (especially Keim) say they really like him at OLB, not so much at Mike though they admire his effort at Mike.  Among other things Holcomb has said (forgot if he said it privately or publicly) that he's a bit hesitant at times to call plays because he hates to be wrong. 

 

yeah I am not worried that they are thinking of Mayo/Bostic at Mike.  Every indication is that Mike is hot on their shopping list.  They seem to think that spot is the biggest hole on the defense, I really doubt they chill about it this off season.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

yeah I am not worried that they are thinking of Mayo/Bostic at Mike.  Every indication is that Mike is hot on their shopping list.  They seem to think that spot is the biggest hole on the defense, I really doubt they chill about it this off season.

I agree with your while post. I must admit I am a little skittish with the resigning of Mayo. I know, he is a solid STer, but he is not a solid backup. If whoever they bring in for the middle (and I agree with you, it's their hot spot on the shopping list) goes down, we are right where we were this year. And I pray Bostic is not on the bring back list

[Riggo#44]

Twitter, highlight tape scouting alert. Watching this several times, I think Willis gets crushed at least twice in the NFL: at the 42-43, and dancing on the 11-12 yard line. Maybe that's just me...

 

[Warhead36]

The fact that Willis's only highlights seem to be of him running are a cause for concern. Even his Senior Bowl promo pic is of him running.

 

He's on the verge of being on my do not draft list.

[Zim489]

3 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

I felt Nick Cross played out of position at Maryland last year so Maryland could play their best two safeties (Cross and Mosley).   Cross played FS, but I think his skill set is more SS.   Cross is good against the run and showed play making ability in that he made a lot of plays on the ball but he also made his share of mistakes in coverage.  I remember one time he had man to man coverage on Jahan Dotson and Dotson got him turned around on the first move and Penn St got like a 60 yard TD.  He ran a 10.77 100 meters in HS and 22.0 200 meters so Cross has the 4.4 speed to play centerfield. https://md.milesplit.com/athletes/7631575-nick-cross/stats He is listed at 6'1 215 so he has good size for a safety so you not sacrificing size to get his speed.   I think if used correctly he could be a starter in the NFL.   Maryland lead the Big 10 in percentage of defense they played man coverage this past season and Cross was solid but made mistakes, but he had tough assignments for a safety.   Given his size he could probably do well in that Buffalo Nickle role that Landon Collins played last year though he probably doesn't have the instincts Collins has around the line of scrimmage.  If we went Devin Lloyd, Carson Strong, Offensive Tackle withour first three picks, Cross could be a decent pick for the 4th round or so.

 

The first play of this Youtube video is the play I mentioned where Dotson burned him...

 

 

Nick Cross is a single high FS. He has ridiculous speed and closing ability. Along with great ball skills. I have no idea where this thought comes that Nick is a SS. Just let him be your centerfielder and shag fly balls. Keep Curl underneath. 

I personally hate interchanging safeties between the positions. They are a difference for a reason. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Zim489

[Silvernon]

28 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The fact that Willis's only highlights seem to be of him running are a cause for concern. Even his Senior Bowl promo pic is of him running.

 

He's on the verge of being on my do not draft list.

I feel we're close to the past of the draft process where Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis will start dropping down the pre-draft lists. 

 

I'm still thinking Carson Strong is the guy to get this year. 

[method man]

29 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Nick Cross is a single high FS. He has ridiculous speed and closing ability. Along with great ball skills. I have no idea where this thought comes that Nick is a SS. Just let him be your centerfielder and shag fly balls. Keep Curl underneath. 

I personally hate interchanging safeties between the positions. They are a difference for a reason. 

That difference is going away. Look at the Bills’ 2 All Pro safeties. Both guys are interchangeable

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, Silvernon said:

I feel we're close to the past of the draft process where Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis will start dropping down the pre-draft lists. 

 

I'm still thinking Carson Strong is the guy to get this year. 

Unless teams start seeing they need to draft for traits and ceilings than Willis will only rise. Personally hes my choice for 11 right now and very little can change that. 

 

In regards to Strong it will come down to medicals. If his knee shows its good and that he gains more mobility over time he will shoot up boards. He has the only true elite trait in the draft with his Arm. But if the knee is bone on bone hes going to plummet. 

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Unless teams start seeing they need to draft for traits and ceilings than Willis will only rise. Personally hes my choice for 11 right now and very little can change that. 

 

In regards to Strong it will come down to medicals. If his knee shows its good and that he gains more mobility over time he will shoot up boards. He has the only true elite trait in the draft with his Arm. But if the knee is bone on bone hes going to plummet. 

But are Willis's traits THAT great? He's pretty small. He's fast sure but there have been plenty of fast QBs. You can't compare him to guys like Vick or RG3 because those guys dominated the best competition. Vick went to a national title game and RG3 won a Heisman. 

 

I feel like in any other normal QB class Willis would be like a 2nd or 3rd rounder and end up being a Tarvaris Jackson or Deshon Kizer type. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

Twitter, highlight tape scouting alert. Watching this several times, I think Willis gets crushed at least twice in the NFL: at the 42-43, and dancing on the 11-12 yard line. Maybe that's just me...

 

 

49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The fact that Willis's only highlights seem to be of him running are a cause for concern. Even his Senior Bowl promo pic is of him running.

 

He's on the verge of being on my do not draft list.

 

19 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

I feel we're close to the past of the draft process where Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis will start dropping down the pre-draft lists. 

 

I'm still thinking Carson Strong is the guy to get this year. 

Agree with a lot of this. Willis has a rocket and elite athleticism but he lacks a lot of actual quarterback skills. People want to equate him to Vick or Lamar… Vick… not even close. Vick was a much better passer and in an era where no one had ever seen a Vick kind of athlete at QB.

 

Lamar was a better passer in college than Willis, and he wasn’t even a good one. Still isn’t.

 

Josh Allen statistically wasn’t great, but watching film he was a much cleaner prospect with his pass attempts combined with running. Strong arm, the ability to hang in the pocket and deliver a strike. He just wasn’t great at reading a D.

 

Willis is a pure running threat with a rocket for an arm. I don’t see much for a pocket presence when I watch him and he is inaccurate with ball placement. 
 

But his athleticism says he could be worth a flier. I don’t love him for us. This is a consistent stance. He doesn’t fit us. 
 

Pickett makes me nervous. Not a big breakout age guy but combine that with what I see from him as a lot of turnover worthy throws and hospital balls and he makes me nervous. The small hands, if measurement is true, will sink him. If it’s not true he’s going to be considered by a lot of teams.

 

Howell is the cleanest prospect in my eyes. But he’s on the shorter side of QB passable height. And his RPO offense doesn’t translate great. Good size overall, good passer, can hang in the pocket. He does get a touch skittish at times in the pocket but overall I feel he is the most pro ready prospect with the most translatable skills. 
 

Corral is pretty good, too. His size and running style give me severe hesitation. His combine weight is going to matter big time. Strong arm, has some Houdini escape ability, second best pocket presence. If he was bigger I think he’d be my top QB. Or if he had a different running style. 
 

Strong is a big question mark to me. He has a rocket and seems pretty fearless in the pocket. But he is a literal statue and his knee is tissue paper.

 

Ridder is a great prospect to stash behind a true QB1. I think he could turn into a really good player in that situation in 3-4 seasons. But too inaccurate with out routes, fairly inaccurate on the deep ball. But charismatic and loves football. But he isn’t a guy on my radar.

 

Its Howel and Corral for me. Willis as a flier but I wouldn’t love it. But I’d like us getting a guy with elite traits. 
 

Then I’m not sure. We will see how Pickett’s off-season goes.

[Zim489]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

But are Willis's traits THAT great? He's pretty small. He's fast sure but there have been plenty of fast QBs. You can't compare him to guys like Vick or RG3 because those guys dominated the best competition. Vick went to a national title game and RG3 won a Heisman. 

 

I feel like in any other normal QB class Willis would be like a 2nd or 3rd rounder and end up being a Tarvaris Jackson or Deshon Kizer type. 

If were forced to take a QB this year hes got the best chance of being elite. I dont think its a great chance but give me that option instead of the decent chance to turn into a Tannehill level QB. Ron messed up big time ignoring the position. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Ironically @Thinking Skins Keim's latst podcast which I just listened to had an ex-scout talk about Jamin among others.  He went over some of this draft class.

 

He said he saw Jamin as a see ball, get ball, weakside LB not a Mike where you put a lot on his plate.  He was surprised they put him at Mike.  He liked JOK better at 19 for them but likes Jamin, too.  He does like his future, thinks he has a high ceiling at outside LB. 

 

He liked Dyami Brown in college but not sold on him in the pros just yet but has a chance, he would add a receiver if it were him.

 

He liked what he saw from Bates.  Keim kicked in that the team is high on what Bates can do to help the run game.

 

Some of his other stuff was on QB, I posted this part on the QB thread too

 

A.  Still thinks a veteran gotten before the draft is likely the QB.

B.  Talked about Carr and suggested McDaniels getting the Raiders job likely means Carr stays unless the Raiders trade for a bigger name

C. If Pickett falls to 11 they might take him

D.  Mentioned Corral maybe if he fell later in the first round but was somewhat vague on it.

E.  Backup play if they miss out on a veteran would involve a lesser veteran (assume Trubisky type) and 2nd-3rd round QB, he's now said twice that they'd like Ridder or Strong in the 2nd.

F.  He had an ex-scout on that podcast, who was higher on Strong than Ridder.  Thought Ridder had a high floor-low ceiling but wondered if he was more of an NFL backup. The ex-scout thought Strong had the strongest arm in the draft aside from Willis and Corral

G.  This maybe could change, they have all hands on deck at the Senior Bowl, both Martys going, Turner, Zampese

H.  They have spent a ton of time studying QBs especially these guys in the draft

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I agree with your while post. I must admit I am a little skittish with the resigning of Mayo. I know, he is a solid STer, but he is not a solid backup. If whoever they bring in for the middle (and I agree with you, it's their hot spot on the shopping list) goes down, we are right where we were this year. And I pray Bostic is not on the bring back list

 

 

[Zim489]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I am sensing a pattern on "if they find that guy" What the hell does that mean? Us Joe Schmoes knows whos out there and whos available? Ron you dont have to go pan sifting through the rubble to find some one. Identify a target and be aggressive. This passivity from Ron pisses me off. 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I am sensing a pattern on "if they find that guy" What the hell does that mean? Us Joe Schmoes knows whos out there and whos available? Ron you dont have to go pan sifting through the rubble to find some one. Identify a target and be aggressive. This passivity from Ron pisses me off. 

 

If you look purely at the FA market if it stays exactly the way it is (L. Campbell maybe but is he a stud?) it spells they have to use the draft.  The FA market right now stinks at MLB IMO.  But if Seattle for example puts Wagner on the market, and the Giants release Martinez as there is a rumor it might happen or whatever it can change the landscape.  You have to let things unfold and hope for some luck.  Conversely, the FS market looks IMO much more attractive if they are looking to upgrade with a veteran.

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

Dean Harris Round one and Trade up / Ridder round 2 is looking more likely. And I would hate it. 

[Silvernon]

38 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I am sensing a pattern on "if they find that guy" What the hell does that mean? Us Joe Schmoes knows whos out there and whos available? Ron you dont have to go pan sifting through the rubble to find some one. Identify a target and be aggressive. This passivity from Ron pisses me off. 

I'm generally in agreement with this. 

 

It wouldn't be awful to give up the second rounder to get Bobby Wagner for 2-4 years. 

[Darth Tater]

51 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I am sensing a pattern on "if they find that guy" What the hell does that mean? Us Joe Schmoes knows whos out there and whos available? Ron you dont have to go pan sifting through the rubble to find some one. Identify a target and be aggressive. This passivity from Ron pisses me off. 

I have always seen the phrase used as a CYA/way to support the narrative that fits the boiler-plate the writer has. If a guy is signed the writer didn't want or never heard of and he works out "they just found their guy." If its a fail, the narrative the writer wants to pursue is still safe.

[bowhunter]

Being that I think we need to add (relative) first round talent to two spots, MLB and QB , asset management comes into play. The potential to trade Payne for a pick should be part of the conversation. I think one of our QB targets should be ileft available in the mid teen range (IMO Corral or Strong.) So two picks in the teens should have us exiting the draft in a better spot than when we began. In order to do that, what is Paynes realistic value in this picture? Would Payne and our 3rd net us a mid 1st round pick?  Or what is his realistic trade value?

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Dean Harris Round one and Trade up / Ridder round 2 is looking more likely. And I would hate it. 

 

I spent a lot of time on Ridder for 2 years now and still don't know what to think about him.

 

I am intrigued that they are intrigued by Carson Strong.

 

Strong's interview which I posted here last weekend where he basically said his knee wasn't right last year and was throwing with basically just his upper body without his legs helping (amazing considering he still had a strong arm)  and his mobility now is improved because his legs feel better -- i guess will see if that's so in a few days at the Senior Bowl. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[bowhunter]

21 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Dean Harris Round one and Trade up / Ridder round 2 is looking more likely. And I would hate it. 

I agree, I'm not sold on Ridder.  Could he become a starter in this league? Absolutely. But could he become THE guy? I don't think so. My mind makes me think "Daniel Jones the 2nd.)