The Guardian: Joe Biden's gender discrimination order offers hope for young trans athletes - Discussion Thread

[tshile]

The thing that cracks me up about the teaching in school thing - and this isn’t a shot at you @TD_washingtonredskins I think I understand exactly what you’re saying and I agree with it in many ways. 
 

but, presumably most adults were kids that experienced the fact that kids learn a lot from hanging out with other kids. And surely most people that have kids, have witnessed this as a parent. I say most because I’m sure there’s people out there that, due to who they do/don’t hang around, have lived a sheltered life. 
 

swear words. Bullying it even more innocent making fun. Fighting. Drugs. Tobacco. Alcohol. Sex. Kids learn about things from other kids. 
 

this idea that something shouldn’t be taught about in school is basically saying you’d prefer for kids to learn from other kids - which any objective person understands is a bad idea. 
 

id prefer my children be exposed to these topics in a school setting. That includes gender identity. I’d prefer to know it’s going on, so we can ask questions and continue the conversation at home and be on the same page as what’s going on at school. 
 

Not teaching sex Ed is how we wind up with teenage pregnancies. I think our drug education is backwards and wrong but surely it scares some kids away from certain things. Not teaching about bullying resulted in bullying being the norm and tolerated and we now all know how wrong that was. 
 

it just makes me laugh because when I hear someone say something shouldn’t be taught in school, my immediate thought is “hah ok so they’re learn it from other kids, sounds like a swell plan”

 

 

And from my limited experience - the younger you teach these things the less of a “big deal” it is

 

ive got a 8 and 4 year old and they seem to be able to handle this type of stuff so much easier than many 30+ year olds. 
 

probably because they don’t have 30ish years of baggage that growing up pretending these people don’t exist, and it being socially acceptable to ridicule them, puts on a person 

Edited June 12, 2023 by tshile

[tshile]

My 4 year old has recently said

”some people have two mommies or two daddies”

 

”some people’s parents don’t sleep in the same room”

 

and other things along the lines of how a family is made up or may act. 
 

and every time we’re like “what do you think of that?” And she’s always saying something along the lines: that’s ok, some people live that way

 

and the conversation is over in a minute or two. And she goes about her life. And it doesn’t affect her at all, or change her. It’s just a new piece of information and supports a key thing we taught them at a young age, which starts with questions about race because our friends are all of different races and it’s easy to notice, which is that everyone’s different and that’s ok. The world would be boring if we were all the same anyways. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by tshile

[dfitzo53]

4 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

When you say vital, do you mean it should be a focus or should happen indirectly? 

It will happen indirectly no matter what.

 

I believe strongly it should be a focus, and this is well supported by decades of educational research.

https://casel.org/fundamentals-of-sel/what-does-the-research-say/

[Destino]

6 hours ago, tshile said:

this idea that something shouldn’t be taught about in school is basically saying you’d prefer for kids to learn from other kids - which any objective person understands is a bad idea. 
 
I’d prefer my children be exposed to these topics in a school setting. That includes gender identity. I’d prefer to know it’s going on, so we can ask questions and continue the conversation at home and be on the same page as what’s going on at school. 

My father used to say as a parent you have two choices, you can teach your kids or the streets can. There’s no third option. I agree.

 

my issue with gender is that I think adults should figure out what the hell they’re talking about before they attempt to teach anything. What is “accepted” changes yearly. No one can even give you a definitive list of genders. Gender affirming care, and what is safe, changes constantly between nations and US states. When things are so fluid, it’s hard to speak with any certainty. And a lot of it is at odds with the gender messaging feminism has introduced. It’s going to take a while for people to figure it all out.
 

my daughter has asked me about genders and I told her that there’s a ton of bull**** out there but when you cut through it there seem to be three. Male, female, and neither. Most are born as male or female that matches their body. Others discover they’re male or female. Some fluctuate between some combination of the three. And some don’t relate to male or female at all and do their own thing. I told her it’s probably tough to have to deal with any situation in which your gender is at odds with the expectations society places on the bodies they're born with. Also, that good people don’t make habit of making things worse for people just trying to live their lives. 
 

not sure if that’s great or horrible, but it’s the best I got at the moment.

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

@tshile @dfitzo53 @Destino you all make good points. And, again, I can't express how much I appreciate how polite you are being in this discussion. I guess why I almost prefer that kids talk about this "amongst themselves" for now is because I don't think there's any non-politicized consensus on anything out there coming from adults. It almost seems like a few kids chatting about what they feel and have seen could be a little more useful as an introduction than what some adults decided over the summer should become part of the curriculum.

 

Playground talk will prompt enough discussion with parents to get the ball rolling. And that's where I believe the ball should be rolling - at home. It just doesn't seem (to me) to be a public school curriculum item. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

I think she means it...

 

 

 

[Larry]

Jon Stewart interviewing the AG of Arkansas about the state's total ban on all gender dysphoria treatments for minors. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 hours ago, Larry said:

Jon Stewart interviewing the AG of Arkansas about the state's total ban on all gender dysphoria treatments for minors. 

 

Jon Stewart and Jordan Klepper are both just...

 

[Larry]

He actually puts numbers to my "gays spend money" point. 
 

And I even think he missed a point. 
 

If Acme makes a rainbow anvil, in the current climate?  Then they'll get publicity for their courage, and for the attempted boycott. Both are publicity for their brand. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

On 6/16/2023 at 8:12 AM, Larry said:

If Acme makes a rainbow anvil, in the current climate?  Then they'll get publicity for their courage, and for the attempted boycott. Both are publicity for their brand. 

yea, I mean the strategy seemed to work great for Bud Light…

Edited June 17, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[The Evil Genius]

Disgusting.

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

Yea if I were a parent of a trans kid, I'd be up and moving tonight. 

 

*though I wouldn't have been living there to begin with. 

[EmirOfShmo]

 

[EmirOfShmo]

 

[The Evil Genius]

The Worm is 62 and can still pull off a skirt. Might we all be that lucky with age. 😁

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Fergasun]

Not sure if this thread is appropriate as its kind've the catchall LGBTQ thread. 

 

My teenagers (17 and 14) both feel like homosexuality is now out of control and being pushed by media, schools, etc.  They both expressed the opinion that (paraphrasing here), "We don't hate gay people, but we hate flaming gay people -- so annoying --  and we think trans people need counseling... every Netflix show and movie now has a token gay people... schools and books are definately exposing kids to sexuality at a young age... we think Youtubers are doing it for clout and overexposure and discussion is causing more gay confusion."

[TradeTheBeal!]

7 hours ago, Fergasun said:

Not sure if this thread is appropriate as its kind've the catchall LGBTQ thread. 

 

My teenagers (17 and 14) both feel like homosexuality is now out of control and being pushed by media, schools, etc.  They both expressed the opinion that (paraphrasing here), "We don't hate gay people, but we hate flaming gay people -- so annoying --  and we think trans people need counseling... every Netflix show and movie now has a token gay people... schools and books are definately exposing kids to sexuality at a young age... we think Youtubers are doing it for clout and overexposure and discussion is causing more gay confusion."

Make sure to let those youngsters know that it’s been “out of control” since the 80s.  Here’s all the evidence you’ll need to convince them…

 

 

[dfitzo53]

Yeah sounds like they are expressing the typically exaggerated opinions of two adolescents with relatively limited real world experience. Par for the course with that age group. 

 

"We don't hate gay people but we hate flaming gay people" says it all. (And I'm not claiming most of us were much different in high school.)

[EmirOfShmo]

Pride Month 'No, we still here.'

 

[Cooked Crack]

World chess body bars trans women from competing in women’s events

 

Quote

The international governing body of competitive chess is effectively banning transgender women from competing and stripping trans men of previously won women’s titles. 

 

In its guidelines for transgender competitors released Monday, the International Chess Federation, or FIDE, said players that have transitioned from male to female have “no right” to compete in the game against cisgender women, or those who are not trans, until its officials complete “further analysis” of the issue. The governing body gave itself a timeline of no more than two years to complete its review. 

 

The guidelines also state that women's titles currently held by trans male competitors “are to be abolished” and can be transferred to a general title of the same or lower level. The federation said if a trans male competitor “changes the gender back to a woman,” the women’s titles can be renewed.