Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Berggy9598]

5 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

If you can upgrade the QB position this offseason without investing too much, you do it.  But his performance and the way Allen was trending doesn't make QB as big of a need as it was previously thought.  

You don’t have sufficient data to make that call. That’s not an opinion. 

[skins2victory]

I feel like we would be in a very good scenario if we bring back Heinicke and Kyle Allen. We have plenty of draft picks and cap space to improve other areas of need, and could come back next year with a real shot to compete.

 

Worst case scenario for me. Not bringing back Heinicke, and signing Cam Newton. I hope Ron looks to new beginnings, instead of trying to live in the past. Just say NO to Cam! 

[Number 44]

15 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

For my own personal entertainment I actually looked up Cousins’ QBR from the Sunday night game against Green Bay. It’s significantly higher than Heinicke’s on Saturday 😅

 

EDIT:

Heinicke had a QBR of 63.2. Are you sure the QBR hill is the one you want to die on? 

Ummm.  I was strictly commenting on the purpose of the stat.  Your argument is with the other poster.

[Llevron]

Just think about how much crazy **** had to go right (or wrong) for us to even be in position to give this kid a shot at all. Its pretty crazy. 

 

No pandemic no pandemic QB. 

Haskins had to be drafted and fail

Smith had to break his leg into 14 pieces and then come back and then not be able to finish

We had to win the division at 7-9. The NFC East. just a few years ago that would have been unbelievable 

The dude in dallas had to break his ankle sy could be bad enough that we had a shot 

Philthy had to poop the bed again, just a few seasons after winning it all 

 

I mean this is why people love football. Literally an ounce of luck was all it took. Hope he pans out. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Football Outsiders guy chatting about the game

 

Tampa Bay Buccaneers at Washington Football Team

 

...Aaron Schatz: Taylor Heinicke looks ... good? He's finding open guys. His interception was tipped by a pass-rusher. The Washington running game is getting absolutely nothing against the No. 1 Bucs run defense though.

 

Vince Verhei:After 15 minutes, I think Heinicke would have been the second-best quarterback in the two early games today.

 

Bryan Knowles: I don't know if I'd go that far, Vince, but that was an impressive drive by someone who was unemployed at the beginning of December. Some nice passing -- nothing mega-dramatic or anything, but he hasn't been overly phased by pressure, he's got some zip ... it's certainly not a give-up start, and Washington marches right down the field to make the score 9-7.

 

...Dave Bernreuther: 

I'll join the chorus of folks impressed by Heinicke. He looks like a far more experienced quarterback, and while he may be staring his first read down just a bit (maybe it was just the last two I noticed), he's throwing accurately and with confidence. Even his incompletions -- including a deep-ish ball just now off the hands of Isaiah Wright and a third-down pass where Carlton Davis got away with one -- are on the money.

That's a bad call not to get, trailing on third-and-9, though. That really should have been flagged.

 

Bryan Knowles: The 7-9 team is still competitive in a playoff game against the 11-5 team at halftime. I don't really know if Washington could have asked for much more.

If the Football Team is going to win the football game, they need that defensive line to do more. They have one sack in the first half; they'll need quite a few more to slow Tom Brady and company down in the second half. Full credit to the Tampa Bay line for holding up so far; I would not have had "Washington has only one sack" and "Washington is still competitive" as things that could happen simultaneously.

 

Vince Verhei: So, uh, not as much excitement so far in the night game, huh? The backup quarterback has played well but has been hurt by drops by his receivers; the Hall of Fame quarterback has played great, but his team has struggled a bit in the red zone. So it's 18-7 instead of 24-7 or something like that.

 

Dave Bernreuther: I like Jack Del Rio, and he definitely got a raw deal in Oakland and has done good work this year, but man does he seem to struggle with Tom Brady. I believe his defenses are 1-9 against him coming in -- of course, many coaches have similarly putrid records in 10-game samples against juggernauts -- and even with the pass rush talent this team has, Brady has mostly had time to pick them apart calmly. The sack, which came just before halftime, looked to be a coverage sack, as Brady was caught from behind, but even that one wasn't some dominant collapsing of the pocket; in fact I'm surprised he didn't throw it away. (Curious what he got so angry at when he popped up after; my sound is off so I didn't get to hear what the broadcast said on the replay.)

This isn't like Jags-Pats playoff game level bad or anything, and we've all seen what a difference Ali Marpet makes on the Bucs' line and surely he deserves some credit, but it's not nearly as ferocious a pass rush as some of us were expecting. Certainly not good enough to slow this offense down or win this game by themselves.

But ... maybe they don't have to. Heinicke continues to impress me. He looks every bit as good as several recent first-round picks, and the Football Team got him off the scrap heap. He was lucky to avoid a second pick just now, but even that one wasn't too bad a throw. Just a tad off target and still perfectly catchable. Settling for a field goal there is a bit of a downer, but it's a one-score game again. Not bad at all.

 

...Bryan Knowles: A somewhat phantom horsecollar tackle moves the Football Team into the red zone, but it's the legs of Tyler Heinicke that is the story of the drive -- he had a 13-yard run where Kevin Minter whiffed on him in open space, and now an 8-yard touchdown to bring Washington within two points, pending the ensuing two-point conversion...

Bryan Knowles: Conversion is no good, but at 18-16, we have a ballgame!

Aaron Schatz: Heinicke is playing so well, I have no idea how this guy didn't have an NFL job until a few weeks ago. His pocket movement is fantastic.

Vince Verhei:The pocket movement, the processing, the arm strength, the mobility. Heinicke has been fantastic. In all seriousness, is this the best game an NFC East quarterback has played since Dak Prescott got hurt?

The two-point play was awful -- looked like a wide receiver tunnel screen with no tunnel -- but I won't mention that.

Dave Bernreuther: The afternoon game makes a lot more sense now that it's clear that Russell Wilson switched bodies with Taylor Heinicke somehow.

I kid, but everything about that escape and score looked like Wilson, right down to his posture as he rolled left. Incredible series for him. Shame the conversion got stuffed, but even without it, we've got a ballgame.

I'm also impressed with Payne's forced fumble ... he was at a really awkward angle without much leverage, and Vaughn was falling. I'm surprised he was able to punch so accurately and effectively.

Vince Verhei: Per Next Gen Stats, Heinicke has been the fastest ballcarrier in the game so far.

 

Vince Verhei: Oh god, now Heinicke's going to the locker room and Steven Montez -- an undrafted rookie out of Colorado -- may be quarterback number FIVE for Washington this season.

Dave Bernreuther: The Bucs defensive line just dominated that series. Usually when a young quarterback has a chance at an upset against a good team, I wait for the opposing defensive coordinator to foil him with some exotic looks or just send the house at him and force a bit of panic ... Todd Bowles hasn't had to. They're getting great pressure with four.

Looked like it was the second-down play where they got to Heinicke and he landed oddly on his left arm/shoulder. It would be really awful if he couldn't continue.

Meanwhile, they're back to getting nowhere near Brady, and he just sliced them apart after the punt. Funny how much easier things get when your receivers don't drop passes.

 

Bryan Knowles: I think the Heinicke injury, coupled with Tampa Bay's recent touchdown, probably is all she wrote for Washington. I just can't imagine the backup backup backup backup quarterback putting together two scores in 9:11.

I suppose crazier things have happened.

 

Aaron Schatz: Crazier things like Heinicke coming back hurt and marching down the field for a touchdown to Steven Sims?

 

Bryan Knowles: Except Heinicke ISN'T hurt! Or, well, he is, but not enough to keep him out, so add "toughness" to your list of accolades for the day.

d spot to be in with the season on the line.

Bryan Knowles: A hell of an effort, and Heinicke has got himself a backup quarterback job somewhere in 2021, but fourth-and-21 was just too much of a miracle to ask for. The desperation shot falls incomplete, and Tampa Bay will come out on top.

Fun while it lasted, though!

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2021/audibles-line-wild-card-saturday

[Number 44]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Yeah, when the play happened, it looked to me like Cam slowed down a little for a step or two right around the WFT 40 or 45 yard line, then picked it back up and jumped for the catch, only to drop it.  Looked like a perfect pass that may have possibly been a touchdown if Cam had just kept running full out and caught it in stride.  Perhaps could have been a game-changer.

[Thinking Skins]

Ok, there have been some names thrown out there of who Heinicke reminds people of, so I'm trying to build a list: 

 - Russell Wilson

 - Drew Brees

 - Jeff Garcia

 - Doug Flutie

 

I'm trying to think of others. 

[Commander Wolffe]

Tony Romo

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Ok, there have been some names thrown out there of who Heinicke reminds people of, so I'm trying to build a list: 

 - Russell Wilson

 - Drew Brees

 - Jeff Garcia

 - Doug Flutie

 

I'm trying to think of others. 

 

If you watch Zach Wilson, BYU, that's who he reminds me of the most -- sans the rocket arm.  He has some Tony Romo in him, too.

 

My pause on him is durability -- the fact that a beat guy checked in on him on that front with sources with the team and they double downed on it -- adds to my concern.  But purely as a player, I am sold.  I understand the limited sample.  But this one  wasn't some throwaway preseason game or random season game.  This was a playoff game where he faced a top defense and he had almost no help. No running game.  Receivers were meh. 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[CommanderInTheRye]

22 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

So now it's a hive ?

Does Heinicke sting like a bee ?

Or sweet as honey ?

 

 

He’s a cold blooded murder hornet.  🐝 

[Thinking Skins]

29 minutes ago, SkinsFootball said:

Tony Romo

Yeah I forgot about Tony Romo. 

[Thinking Skins]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

If you watch Zach Wilson, BYU, that's who he reminds me of the most -- sans the rocket arm.  He has some Tony Romo in him, too.

 

My pause on him is durability -- the fact that a beat guy checked in on him on that front with sources with the team and they double downed on it -- adds to my concern.  But purely as a player, I am sold.  I understand the limited sample.  But this one  wasn't some throwaway preseason game or random season game.  This was a playoff game where he faced a top defense and he had almost no help. No running game.  Receivers were meh. 

Durability will work itself out (or not). We can only see how that plays out. But if he is healthy in July, I'd like to see him get some reps with the 1s. The good thing that I saw is that he knows how to slide and run out of bounds. So its more of a thing of balancing his competitiveness with that ability to play the next play. I think Allen had a similar problem, but he got hurt so he didn't really learn from it. 

 

My whole feeling with this is that we can definitely do worse (Case/Colt/Dwayne anybody). I have no problem with a QB room of Heinicke/Allen/(Taylor or a rookie) as our QB room. In fact that's my preferred selection. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Durability will work itself out (or not). We can only see how that plays out. But if he is healthy in July, I'd like to see him get some reps with the 1s. The good thing that I saw is that he knows how to slide and run out of bounds. So its more of a thing of balancing his competitiveness with that ability to play the next play. I think Allen had a similar problem, but he got hurt so he didn't really learn from it. 

 

My whole feeling with this is that we can definitely do worse (Case/Colt/Dwayne anybody). I have no problem with a QB room of Heinicke/Allen/(Taylor or a rookie) as our QB room. In fact that's my preferred selection. 

 

 

I think you have to factor durability in the mix.  It's not like its just some theory.  He has a bad history already on that front in a short sample.   I am jazzed about his play as much as anyone.  But I worry about his slight frame combined with style of play.  I am ok with the combination you gave there.  I gave the same combination yesterday. But I am open minded at QB.  It all depends on what's available.

 

Overall though I am an easy-cheap date when it comes to QB this off season.  As much as I hype up the spot, I still would at this time endorse just about any move they make.  I trust the powers that be on this.  

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I think you have to factor durability in the mix.  It's not like its just some theory.  He has a bad history already on that front in a short sample.   I am jazzed about his play as much as anyone.  But I worry about his slight frame combined with style of play.  I am ok with the combination you gave there.  I gave the same combination yesterday. But I am open minded at QB.  It all depends on what's available.

 

Overall though I am an easy-cheap date when it comes to QB this off season.  As much as I hype up the spot, I still would at this time endorse just about any move they make.  I trust the powers that be on this.  

So what gets me is that he did get injured twice, but he came back both times. That shows some guts. Its what RG3 had and we loved it until it should have kept him out against Seattle. So I wonder about his durability long term but I think that there are degrees to it, and if he's just banged up, its nothing. If its a tear or something then we have a problem. But I still think he has a good chance. I look at guys like the ones I mentioned above and that's what I was thinking about, a lot of them had injury concerns early in their career. And I think he may just need to invest in a hyperbolic chamber like Cousins or do some underwater weights like Smith. 

[bonhommelemec]

I'm ok now if we get Matt Ryan on the cheap.  I am assuming that ATL will pick Zach, Trey or Justin.

 

With Allen and Heinicke as backups, Ryan could be the bridge qb we are looking for.

 

I am high on TH but we will have to see how he does over a longer stretch of playing time.  With that said, he obviously has all the qualities except the prototypical size for the NFL.

 

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, Berggy9598 said:

Heinicke had a QBR of 63.2. Are you sure the QBR hill is the one you want to die on? 

If you're gonna play that card at least make it apples to apples and don't use a regular season game for comparison.  Kirk had a 58.9 QBR in his 1 playoff game for us.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, bonhommelemec said:

I'm ok now if we get Matt Ryan on the cheap.  I am assuming that ATL will pick Zach, Trey or Justin.

 

With Allen and Heinicke as backups, Ryan could be the bridge qb we are looking for.

 

I am high on TH but we will have to see how he does over a longer stretch of playing time.  With that said, he obviously has all the qualities except the prototypical size for the NFL.

 

 

If my math is right Ryan would cost over 30 million a season against the cap.  He's good but is he that good?

[Berggy9598]

Just now, JSSkinz said:

If you're gonna play that card at least make it apples to apples and don't use a regular season game for comparison.  Kirk had a 58.9 QBR in his 1 playoff game for us.

 

My original response clearly mentions performance in a vacuum and the poster I was replying to did not at any point say he was referring strictly to playoff games so I’m not sure what that has to do with anything 

[Dark Acre]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Just think about how much crazy **** had to go right (or wrong) for us to even be in position to give this kid a shot at all. Its pretty crazy. 

 

No pandemic no pandemic QB. 

Haskins had to be drafted and fail

Smith had to break his leg into 14 pieces and then come back and then not be able to finish

We had to win the division at 7-9. The NFC East. just a few years ago that would have been unbelievable 

The dude in dallas had to break his ankle sy could be bad enough that we had a shot 

Philthy had to poop the bed again, just a few seasons after winning it all 

 

I mean this is why people love football. Literally an ounce of luck was all it took. Hope he pans out. 

It all started in 1978 when Jack Pardee traded WR Frank Grant when the Skins were 6 & 0.  The team collapsed, finishing 8 - 8.  When "wait til next year" died 2 pts shy of the playoffs in 1979, 1980 was Pardee's sad swan song which ultimately led to your post.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So what gets me is that he did get injured twice, but he came back both times. That shows some guts. Its what RG3 had and we loved it until it should have kept him out against Seattle. So I wonder about his durability long term but I think that there are degrees to it, and if he's just banged up, its nothing. If its a tear or something then we have a problem. But I still think he has a good chance. I look at guys like the ones I mentioned above and that's what I was thinking about, a lot of them had injury concerns early in their career. And I think he may just need to invest in a hyperbolic chamber like Cousins or do some underwater weights like Smith. 

 

His ex-college coach who loves him even said before the game don't run RO with him in fear of him getting hurt.  A beat guy said his sources with the team told him durability is a concern going forward.  So if you feel more chilled about it, OK, but I am taking my cues from those who I'd assume are more in the know. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Dave Bernreuther: The afternoon game makes a lot more sense now that it's clear that Russell Wilson switched bodies with Taylor Heinicke somehow.

I kid, but everything about that escape and score looked like Wilson, right down to his posture as he rolled left. Incredible series for him. Shame the conversion got stuffed, but even without it, we've got a ballgame.

That's great!

[markshark84]

7 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I will take a step back from my praise of Heinicke and say that one concern I have of him is that he's 27. This is his 4th or 5th team including XFL. As much as I love the Rocky Balboa stories I have to caution myself because at soem point you are what you are. That's not to say that my theories about him never being given the chance he should have been given aren't true (and he played well for a guy in 2018 for Carolina against Atlanta but was intercepted 3 times). But I do research and one thing I have to caution myself about is to look for my own mistakes - like, if there's a problem that people have been trying to solve for 50+ years and I think I've solved it in 2 weeks, I probably have a mistake. So the key question becomes where is the mistake. That's the thing about Heinicke. Did everybody miss out on this guy for this long, not even being willing to give him a chance on a roster this year, not even giving him a starting job in the XFL? 

 

The saying goes that cream rises to the top and mayhe this year and his relationship with Scott Turner provided him with that opportunity to rise. But there's also a saying that you are what you are. And maybe we have a guy who played lights out for a game (a game and a quarter) but will eventually come back down to earth. 

 

Whichever situation is true, I will hold that this game got me excited in a way I haven't been since the RG3 days. Kirk got stats but never had me hype about a win. Smith got wins but never made the plays. Haskins didn't get stats or wins. Colt got hurt. Even Kyle Allen got some good plays (I think about his TD run against the Rams) but it wasn't the same type of a feeling as this game (partially because he got hurt that game and partially because we got beat so badly that game and it wasn't as nice of a run). 

 

You are disregarding the fact there are even politics in pro sports.  When you have an undersized guy (and let's be honest, TH isn't close to 6-1; Brady looked a full head taller when they went to shake hands) that came from a nothing program, sigma/bias will work wildly against you. When you look at Romo's early history, it's crazy.  The guy was almost cut for Quincy Carter!  It took 3 years and a threat to leave to New Orleans in order for him to sniff the field. 

 

I 100% agree that generally the cream rises to the top, but you need to have an opportunity to rise.  The vikings was his best hope, but that was in year 1 out of college, he got hurt, and it is understandable the franchise didn't want to waste time on a guy that was on IR for like 2 years.  After that, he was behind Brady, Watson, and Newton --- and he still rose the ranks after Newton was hurt and impressed the staff so much, well, he's here now.  

 

Personally, I think when evaluating the depth chart and investment of a player, overall performance should be considered greater than what other teams thought of the guy.  But that's just me.....   

 

I am with you that this game finally got me excited about this team.  I have been 100% dormant for nearly 6 years.  TH woke me up.  To not give this dude a chance to compete for QB1 would be insanity.  That said, we would absolutely need to invest in multiple QBs as his injury concerns are 110% valid.  In looking at all this, the redskins have screwed up much easier decisions, so as long as Snyder is the owner, my expectations on their ability to correctly handle this are next to 0.

Edited January 11, 2021 by markshark84

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, markshark84 said:

I am with you that this game finally got me excited about this team.  I have been 100% dormant for nearly 6 years.  TH woke me up.  To not give this dude a chance to compete for QB1 would be insanity.  That being said, the redskins have screwed up much easier decisions, so as long as Snyder is the owner, my expectations on their ability to correctly handle this are next to 0.

I just can't help but remember how we lost Trent Green and then Brad Johnson in consecutive offseasons (I think). Then we had the loss of Cousins. And I can't ignore the stuff like picking C. Rogers /Campbell instead of A. Rodgers or picking LeRib over Wilson. or trading out of the 4th in 2016 (getting Matt I and Sprinkle) instead of picking Dak Prescott. 

[Llevron]

36 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

It all started in 1978 when Jack Pardee traded WR Frank Grant when the Skins were 6 & 0.  The team collapsed, finishing 8 - 8.  When "wait til next year" died 2 pts shy of the playoffs in 1979, 1980 was Pardee's sad swan song which ultimately led to your post.

 

You trying to make me look dumb!? Lol it worked