Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[HogsVa7]

None of us need to be arguing with each other about Heinieke. We're on the same team here, but this is why a message board is used for. Fitz got the one year 10M deal and won the battle and got the starting job. Don't think for a second that Rivera and company knew that Heinieke was going to come in this season for bad play of Fitz, or injury etc.... We had a chance to trade up for a QB but they didn't because they trusted of what they had. They never thought it would be after four drives of the first game. They gave Heinieke a two year deal not a one year deal. They wanted more of him but it's too risky to give him the starting job over a game and a half of a sample. That's why we got Fitz, he was brought here to win games and open the offense, if things went south then we would go to Heinieke to see how that would work out. At the time they're confident with Allen too. Heinieke is a gamer and it's simple as that. The tape doesn't lie, since he's been here he has been balling. Idc if he was a backup in the XFL or got released from other NFL teams. He bulked up this off-season and when his time has been called he's been balling. I understand some of yall want to see more but when can we stop the excuses with him? People said he scrambles and extend plays and it  helps him too much. He stayed in that pocket last night and tore it up. He is composed and very smart. He never gave up and this team believes in him and it shows especially if you saw the video with Rivera giving out the game balls. I would recommend to read the article that JP Finlay wrote today about Heinieke being the guy here and the excuses of him not being the guy are dwindling down. I'm 33 years old and been a die hard fan since I was 5 years old. We have never had a Franchise Qb ever since I've watched them. I'm not saying Heinieke is, but I can see it coming for some reason and I can't explain it. This is what we have always wanted and time will tell, but at the end of the day I think during the season we all will be on the same page.

[CapsSkins]

Just to make clear that I'm not blind to any flaws Taylor has, here are my concerns with him at the moment:

• Durability / injuries
• Sailing the balls
• Throwing behind receivers

That's it. I'm hoping the weight gain and less reckless play style solves the first one but only time will tell. I'm assuming the 2nd and 3rd can be fixed thru more experience and reps but time will tell, plus they aren't as serious to me as the durability issues.

[Berggy9598]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

@Llevron this is the type of circular logic I find maddening FYI.

 

It's Bayes' Theorem / conditional probability. Yes if you picked a random UDFA QB out of a hat, the chances he'd be a Romo or Garcia is miniscule. But if you're looking at a guy who is performing at a high level in live fire NFL games in ways that are intrinsically sustainable (e.g. going thru reads etc. vs. pure RPO), then the probability is no longer miniscule. In fact, the draft caliber becomes irrelevant.

 

Taylor should be judged purely on his ability to perform as a starting quarterback in the NFL. 

 

So tell me this: in this moment, for this season, would you rather have Heinicke as starting QB at his $1.6M cap hit or Kirk Cousins at his $31M cap hit (and for arguments sake need to cut/trade guys to get under the cap)? Because I take Heinicke.

 

Based on what we've seen thus far, if the draft were tomorrow and we had the #10 pick would you use it on a QB or a different position assuming BPA was a tie? Because I'd be looking at LB again, secondary, or OL in that order.

 

I don't think anyone is "crowning" Taylor. We're just excited and think we may have found our guy. But I don't think even ODU Aggie would say let's extend Heinicke at $25M/year, and that's what "crowning" him would actually look like. 

 

Yes, let's watch him perform consistently before making any forward-looking decisions. I think we're all in agreement there. But I refuse not to indulge my excitement in the meantime when the kid is balling like no QB has since 2012 RG3.

But making draft plans discounting QB as a need is sounder logic than let’s wait and see? 

[Malapropismic Depository]

37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I did read your post and saying something like 35-11 is rediculous.  We scored 16 points last week and got Bills up next, Giants are garbage.  He has talent, most do at this level. He has to beat a good team, this was a test Kirk never passed, he still hasn't played Dallas yet.  I'm saying its early, sticking to that.

 

 

 

I just think it's very ironic that you feel that about Heinicke, considering that immediately after Dwayne Haskins was drafted, you started a thread about Haskins and said "Dwayne Haskins is already better than Alex Smith".

You said those words long before Haskins even stepped onto an OTA practice field.

How do you reconcile those conflicting standards/expectations between Haskins and Heinicke, in having to prove themselves as a young QB ?

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Juan1812]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

He needs to prove he can do it consistently, but that was a game he could not lose if he wanted a chance to stay the starter.  The two are not the same conversation.  He passed the first test, thats not the only test.

 

Its the same process every QB goes through, do it once and do it consistently. 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make because, with the exception of very few players, this is the life of every NFL QB. 

[CapsSkins]

Just now, Berggy9598 said:

But making draft plans discounting QB as a need is sounder logic than let’s wait and see? 

 

The hypothetical was if the draft were tomorrow. Fortunately, the draft is not tomorrow and we will have much more data by the time that decision needs to be made.

 

The point of the hypothetical is as a temperature check on where things stand today - understanding a lot can change. It's like tracking opinion polling a year out from an election. A lot can change, but it's helpful to know where you are today in real time as well.

 

Right now, I would take Heinicke at $1.6m over Kurt at $31M and I would draft LB/DB over QB.

 

Maybe by January I will say ****, Heinicke was a mirage, we need to trade up for a QB. Or maybe I will say hell, I'd take Heinicke at $20M over Kurt at $31M. That's the benefit of more time.

 

It's also why I became a Heinicke Truther in January after Tampa but still wanted to trade a 1st for Derek Carr. Because at that time, it really was basically one game in which he got injured and if there were opportunities to upgrade with surer certainty I was interested in them.

 

However, what I've never done is write off Heinicke because of his draft caliber. And as for naysayers in this thread, I mean it's literally called the Heinicke Hive Thread - if you want to err on the side of skepticism why come in here at all? Lol

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I just think it's very ironic that you feel that about Heinicke, considering that immediately after Dwayne Haskins was drafted, you started a thread about Haskins and said "Dwayne Haskins is already better than Alex Smith".

You said those words long before Haskins even stepped onto an OTA practice field.

How do you reconcile those conflicting beliefs between Haskins and Heinicke ?

 

 

I was wrong in the long run, you happy?  That doesn't mean I'm wrong here.

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

@Llevron this is the type of circular logic I find maddening FYI.

 

It's Bayes' Theorem / conditional probability. Yes if you picked a random UDFA QB out of a hat, the chances he'd be a Romo or Garcia is miniscule. But if you're looking at a guy who is performing at a high level in live fire NFL games in ways that are intrinsically sustainable (e.g. going thru reads etc. vs. pure RPO), then the probability is no longer miniscule. In fact, the draft caliber becomes irrelevant.

 

Taylor should be judged purely on his ability to perform as a starting quarterback in the NFL. 

 

So tell me this: in this moment, for this season, would you rather have Heinicke as starting QB at his $1.6M cap hit or Kirk Cousins at his $31M cap hit (and for arguments sake need to cut/trade guys to get under the cap)? Because I take Heinicke.

 

Based on what we've seen thus far, if the draft were tomorrow and we had the #10 pick would you use it on a QB or a different position assuming BPA was a tie? Because I'd be looking at LB again, secondary, or OL in that order.

 

I don't think anyone is "crowning" Taylor. We're just excited and think we may have found our guy. But I don't think even ODU Aggie would say let's extend Heinicke at $25M/year, and that's what "crowning" him would actually look like. 

 

Yes, let's watch him perform consistently before making any forward-looking decisions. I think we're all in agreement there. But I refuse not to indulge my excitement in the meantime when the kid is balling like no QB has since 2012 RG3.

I get your point. Truly. And don’t mistake my keeping MY expectations grounded for me trying to stop you from having a good time. We are sharing opinions here. I’m not at all telling you that you need to calm down. I haven’t said anything like that and it should be clear that’s not my intent. 
 

I just think it’s silly for y’all to jump down everyone’s throat for being critical of a clearly flawed player (to whatever extent you find acceptable, if any) IN OUT OPINION. We don’t have to agree. 
 

I say it’s silly, here I have been extending this conversation all day when it clear some of you are so far in your corner just seeing people disagree is enough to cause a hernia. 

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Juan1812 said:

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make because, with the exception of very few players, this is the life of every NFL QB. 

How much leash has Taylor earned?  Are we developing him now?  Very different plan then running with Fitz.  He's gonna have ups and downs, im not convinced he's done enough to not let Fitz take the job back, but a couple more wins and I'll be on board.  Beating the giants isn't good enough to earn the leeway many QBs have earned

 

[CapsSkins]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

How much leash has Taylor earned?  Are we developing him now?  Very different plan then running with Fitz.  He's gonna have ups and downs, im not convinced he's done enough to not let Fitz take the job back, but a couple more wins and I'll be on board.  Beating the giants isn't good enough to earn the leeway many QBs have earned

 

 

I think, right now in this moment, Taylor has earned the right to start every game until the bye week.

[ODU AGGIE]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I was wrong in the long run, you happy?  That doesn't mean I'm wrong here.

But -- does it perhaps indicate a trend?

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, ODU AGGIE said:

But -- does it perhaps indicate a trend?

 

Say what you mean.

[Die Hard]

I don’t know if the extra10 pounds has contributed, but Taylor hasn’t seemed as quick or elusive as he did in that Tampa game when he was running for 1st downs.

[Malapropismic Depository]

31 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I was wrong in the long run, you happy?  That doesn't mean I'm wrong here.

 

I'm not singling you out for being wrong. Don't take it that way. It's not about that. I'm wrong too, sometimes on predictions.

But this is a principle thing ; Because it's like the standards and expectations for each QB to prove himself,  keep changing and conflicting.

I just want to see each QB held to similar standards. And if they are not, I just want to know why ?

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[TK]

3 hours ago, Stone Cold said:

lol im just here to quote the bottom line, drink some beer and watch the WFT kick some ass.  Hell yeah

What?

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

I don’t know if the extra10 pounds has contributed, but Taylor hasn’t seemed as quick or elusive as he did in that Tampa game when he was running for 1st downs.

It probably has, but I argue it’s a good thing. I want him to be able to take that punishment and I don’t think he really NEEDS to run anyway at this point. He’s pretty surgical from the pocket when his line holds up. 
 

I hate to say it, but he’s as hard to tackle in the pocket as Romo was. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Llevron

[CapsSkins]

18 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I get your point. Truly. And don’t mistake my keeping MY expectations grounded for me trying to stop you from having a good time. We are sharing opinions here. I’m not at all telling you that you need to calm down. I haven’t said anything like that and it should be clear that’s not my intent. 
 

I just think it’s silly for y’all to jump down everyone’s throat for being critical of a clearly flawed player (to whatever extent you find acceptable, if any) IN OUT OPINION. We don’t have to agree. 
 

I say it’s silly, here I have been extending this conversation all day when it clear some of you are so far in your corner just seeing people disagree is enough to cause a hernia. 

 

Haha, I think it's a bit silly to come into a thread defined by emotional exuberance for a player and preach skepticism. 😉 But as long as everyone's following the forum rules, it's well within your rights!

[Jabbyrwock]

2 minutes ago, TK said:

What?

 

He said: "IM JUST HERE TO QUOTE THE BOTTOM LINE, DRINK SOME BEER AND WATCH THE WFT KICK SOME ASS"

 

Turn your hearing aid up when you're reading TK.

 

5 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

I don’t know if the extra10 pounds has contributed, but Taylor hasn’t seemed as quick or elusive as he did in that Tampa game when he was running for 1st downs.

 

His adrenaline levels might also have been slightly different, playoff and all.

[CapsSkins]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

It probably has, but I argue it’s a good thing. I want him to be able to take that punishment and I don’t think he really NEEDS to run anyway at this point. He’s pretty surgical from the pocket when his line holds up. 

 

Yeah and in some ways the best use of his legs is to reset the pocket and buy a few more seconds, not scamper upfield and lower the shoulder.

[Llevron]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

How much leash has Taylor earned?  Are we developing him now?  Very different plan then running with Fitz.  He's gonna have ups and downs, im not convinced he's done enough to not let Fitz take the job back, but a couple more wins and I'll be on board.  Beating the giants isn't good enough to earn the leeway many QBs have earned

 

Dunno. If Fitz was healthy today I would want to see what Taylor could do anyway. I know Fitz. I want to see what Taylor can do honestly. The players are with it too! 

[Malapropismic Depository]

6 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

I don’t know if the extra10 pounds has contributed, but Taylor hasn’t seemed as quick or elusive as he did in that Tampa game when he was running for 1st downs.

 

Hey, he didn't hurt himself though !

So maybe we have to choose between

 

1) Elusive but Fragile Heinicke Light

or

2) Durable but Sluggish Heinicke Heavy

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Haha, I think it's a bit silly to come into a thread defined by emotional exuberance for a player and preach skepticism. 😉 But as long as everyone's following the forum rules, it's well within your rights!

You say skeptic I say realist. I haven’t once said I don’t think he can do it. That’s your problem. You are letting all that emotion flow and braking at the moon. I’m higher on this guy than anyone we have seen in years and I have said that multiple times. You choose to focus on the part of the whole picture that is negative. That’s a you problem not a me problem. 

[TK]

3 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said:

 

He said: "IM JUST HERE TO QUOTE THE BOTTOM LINE, DRINK SOME BEER AND WATCH THE WFT KICK SOME ASS"

 

Turn your hearing aid up when you're reading TK.

What?

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Yeah and in some ways the best use of his legs is to reset the pocket and buy a few more seconds, not scamper upfield and lower the shoulder.

Yea he commands the pocket like a vet and I dig that. I keep saying “this is what I like best about him” but I think this is what I like best about him lol 

 

 

[ThomasRoane]

25 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I was wrong in the long run, you happy?  That doesn't mean I'm wrong here.

 

Maybe not.  But it means that your judgment on what an NFL QB looks like should not be taken seriously.