Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[TChaler70]

24 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

For now I'm sticking with my instinct that Heinicke's potential is probably a mid-tier guy. Top 20 or top 15. He's definitely a guy you keep, but you absolutely still look for an upgrade because there really is nothing that can compare to having a true top 5 type franchise QB. Hopefully we like a guy in the 1st and he falls to us, but I doubt we'll be in a position for one of the top prospects unfortunately.

 

I think Heinicke is a guy you might be able to win 1 SB with, but it would take a top defense, good running game, and some luck. That's what it took for Dilfer, Flacco, Kaep, Jimmy G, Goff, and Foles to get there.

 

 

I can see you know more about this then me but man you are a tough cookie, 1 SB? Dan still owns the team doesnt he? I think 99% of the fan base would sign up for that. How many superbowls has Stafford won? A top 15 qb with TH qualities is a winner for me I would look no further, I am not saying he is that by the way. 

 

Getting a top 5 qb is damn near impossible, even if you had the number 1 pick for the next 3 years your chances of getting one is slim. Then you sell out over draft looking for one and you end up with a guy taking selfies when he is needed on the field.

Edited December 6, 2021 by TChaler70

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

For now I'm sticking with my instinct that Heinicke's potential is probably a mid-tier guy. Top 20 or top 15. He's definitely a guy you keep, but you absolutely still look for an upgrade because there really is nothing that can compare to having a true top 5 type franchise QB.

This is the correct evaluation. Capable football player and great story. If he played guard, I’d love to have him as a 5 year starter but he’s not going to win you a Super Bowl as a QB and the league is about finding that guy so you have to keep looking for an upgrade.

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, TChaler70 said:

I can see you know more about this then me but man you are a tough cookie, 1 SB? Dan still owns the team doesnt he? I think 99% of the fan base would sign up for that. How many superbowls has Stafford won? A top 15 qb with TH qualities is a winner for me I would look no further, I am not saying he is that by the way. 

 

Getting a top 5 qb is damn near impossible, even if you had the number 1 pick for the next 3 years your chances of getting one is slim. Then you sell out over draft looking for one and you end up with a guy taking selfies when he is needed on the field.

 

I'm not saying I think TH will win a SB. I think the chances are incredibly slim, like they are for any middle of the road QB. Those guys basically need magic pixie dust consisting of a great supporting cast, a great defense, and some luck in order to get to the big game.

 

What I'm saying is I think if TH does manage to get us to a SB, it will be one an done. Teams with middle tier QBs aren't perennial contenders so all of the stars have to align for them to get to the SB and they don't make it back. Dilfer, Flacco, Kaep, Jimmy G, Foles, Goff. All of those guys went to one SB and pretty much never sniffed it again.

 

Getting a top QB is pretty much the only way to guarantee the chance of being a perennial contender for a long time. With a middle tier QB, a top supporting cast, and a top defense, you have about a 2-3 year window. With an elite QB you have a 10-15 year window.

 

And yes, getting a top 5 QB is hard, and includes quite a bit of luck. I bet the Chiefs are really regretting trading up for a QB in the 1st when they had just gotten to the playoffs with a perfectly serviceable one. Just because it's hard doesn't mean you stop trying. Pretty much every single coach and FO knows this. That's why QBs keep getting picked so high. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by mistertim

[Commander PK]

I've seen enough to know that you don't **** with team chemistry when you find it.  The team loves Taylor.  Having the backing of the other 52 guys on the team is immeasurable.

 

He appears to be bringing out the best in everyone around him and in a team sport like this you can't argue with the results.  For me, the intangibles are always more important.  Taylor has them.  

[Renegade7]

@mistertim you keep bringing up this window for going to multiple super bowls, but the only QB that seems to be common for is Brady.  Brees only went to one, ARod only went to one, its really hard to get to the superbowl, let alone win it, even with a HoF QB. 

 

The standard you are holding in front of Taylor is not realistic, if he gets to one, let alone wins it, would be a huge accomplishment, so we should be taking about if he can do it once, not multiple times.

[Commander PK]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

What I'm saying is I think if TH does manage to get us to a SB, it will be one an done.

 

I would absolutely take one and done. 

 

The messiah that leads you to multiple Super Bowl wins while the rest of the team turns over repeatedly is largely a myth.  The modern day game is not built for that kind of sustained success.  Brady is not only the greatest of all time he is an outlier.  What he has done you are not supposed to do in the modern NFL.  Free Agency was meant to kill the dynasties of the past and spread the wealth.  For the most part, that is what it has done.  Winning a single Super Bowl is no small feat.  

[petey hodge]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@mistertim you keep bringing up this window for going to multiple super bowls, but the only QB that seems to be common for is Brady. 

 

You're missing his point, Renegade... if we just traded Tress a-Way, for the next Joe Montana.  We should make that our priority... did I get that right?

[mistertim]

23 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@mistertim you keep bringing up this window for going to multiple super bowls, but the only QB that seems to be common for is Brady.  Brees only went to one, ARod only went to one, its really hard to get to the superbowl, let alone win it, even with a HoF QB. 

 

The standard you are holding in front of Taylor is not realistic, if he gets to one, let alone wins it, would be a huge accomplishment, so we should be taking about if he can do it once, not multiple times.

 

I've already said I think it's highly unlikely for him to do it once. He's a guy that probably needs to a top defense and top supporting cast, including a good running game, in order to do it. Basically the stars have to align, because he's not a guy who's going to get us there with his arm. 

 

And the reason I say that 2-3 year window with a middle ot he pack QB is because it's basically impossible in the modern NFL to keep a star studded group together for any longer than that, because you're simply not going to be able to pay them all and will inevitably have to let some walk or trade them.

 

14 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

 

You're missing his point, Renegade... if we just traded Tress a-Way, for the next Joe Montana.  We should make that our priority... did I get that right?

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by mistertim

[zCommander]

21 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I've already said I think it's highly unlikely for him to do it once. He's a guy that probably needs to a top defense and top supporting cast, including a good running game, in order to do it. Basically the stars have to align, because he's not a guy who's going to get us there with his arm. 

 

And the reason I say that 2-3 year window with a middle ot he pack QB is because it's basically impossible in the modern NFL to keep a star studded group together for any longer than that, because you're simply not going to be able to pay them all and will inevitably have to let some walk or trade them.

 

We don't have a good defense - they are playing a lot better after the bye though. We don't have any stars on offense (except for Terry) and the oline is hurt, Curtis is limited and now Thomas is out. We have a new kicker. But he is still putting us in position to win on his arm. You know the arm he doesn't have as you like to say it. 

 

If you draft a QB you are still looking at 2-3 years or even longer. Do you really think we have a star studded group right now?

[Cooleyfan1993]

Man. Honestly, I’d take heiney for 1 SB run. I’m 28, it’d be my first since being alive......who am i to Complain when it occurs 🤷🏻‍♂️

[mistertim]

25 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

We don't have a good defense - they are playing a lot better after the bye though. We don't have any stars on offense (except for Terry) and the oline is hurt, Curtis is limited and now Thomas is out. We have a new kicker. But he is still putting us in position to win on his arm. You know the arm he doesn't have as you like to say it. 

 

If you draft a QB you are still looking at 2-3 years or even longer. Do you really think we have a star studded group right now?

 

Our defense has been playing very well since the bye. They've held multiple good teams to well below their average points scored prior to that game. Contrary to that, many times our offense has put up decidedly less points against defenses than they were giving up on average.

 

Please stop making it sound like we didn't do anything and Heinicke singlehandedly drove us to victory with his arm. He's a game manager and he managed the game relatively well. Accurate in the short and intermediate, not many big shots, but not many big mistakes. We had a good running game, our defense held them to way under their average up to that point, and even though our offense sputtered we managed to eek out enough points to narrowly edge them.

[PartyPosse]

Honestly, I don’t know how we keep winning or why. Taylor makes some weird decisions, the offense always seems stagnant and we’re always in a position where we don’t deserve to win.

 

But we do. I don’t know how. I don’t know why defenses are dropping easy interceptions or opposing offenses are making questionable decisions, but they are. And sometimes you just can’t question things. We’re winning now and there’s no reason not to ride the wave until there is. 
 

so, just enjoy it until it’s not enjoyable.

Edited December 6, 2021 by PartyPosse

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

Heinicke walking into his post-game presser...

 

 

 

 

 

[CjSuAvE22]

Taylor Heinicke is Ron Riveras Alex Smith imo exactly how Ansy Reid used smith, i think with him we can continue to build and eventually go and get the guy we want at qb.

[Burgold]

I don't think this was Heinike's best game. It feels like his accuracy was off. So many of his throws were high and forced his receivers to make amazing catches. That first TD by Logan Thomas was really impressive. I wonder if he felt the weight of this game more.

[SkinsGuy]

22 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't think this was Heinike's best game. It feels like his accuracy was off. So many of his throws were high and forced his receivers to make amazing catches. That first TD by Logan Thomas was really impressive. I wonder if he felt the weight of this game more.

 

Some media people this morning are jokingly referring to him as Taylor HIGHinke, because of all the overthrown passes yesterday. Though statistically  he had a pretty good game.

 

Even the TD pass to Thomas was overthrown.

[KDawg]

All of this talk of "he will never be anything other than a mid tier QB" and even my  own belief that he was a fringe starter/top tier back up...

 

I was thinking about it on and off all night. Went to bed and couldn't sleep and was thinking about it...

 

How do we measure that? Why do we call some a top 5 QB versus not? It came to my attention while thinking about this that we generally apply that label and rank to quarterbacks who we are wow'ed with physically. Yes, they have to have stats, including wins, but it's generally only players that we say, "ya, that guy is a physical monster". But why do we do that?

 

Derek Carr has been pretty good this year but no one thinks he's anything other than mid-tier. Why? Because he isn't a physical freak and his team isn't a world beater. If the Raiders were a better team with a better record, though, I still don't think he'd get the respect.

 

So... why don't we think Heinicke can grow? I agree that he had some high tosses and throws off his back foot too often. But this is a guy who learns from his mistakes.

 

I'm NOT claiming he is or will be a top 10ish QB. But if he continues to win (not at this pace, but in a positive record kind of way), make plays when he has to and down the stretch of games and has his teammates all in on him... Why can't he be that guy?

 

The answer I came up with: There's no reason he can't.

 

We have a QB that the locker room believes in and does Jedi things on the regular. He had some ridiculous zip on some of his passes yesterday. I'm not inclined to spend a ton of resources to replace him. If a franchise guy falls in our lap? Okay. But otherwise.... Why not Heinicke? I think he's the overall best QB we've had in decades. Including Cousins. Cousins had better physical tools, sure. But he didn't have the locker room like Taylor. He didn't spark that "we can do anything" behavior of the team like Heinicke.

 

I think this is going to be Heinicke's team. And it should be. But we have some games to play still. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by KDawg

[NoVaSkins21]

Heinicke on two dropped INTs yesterdays was just lucky instead of good.  He needs to be smart about his decision making or it will come back to bite them especially in this 5-game stretch to come.  Division games are always tough and those teams will pick up on his tendencies.  

Edited December 6, 2021 by SAli457180

[seamonster]

LOL at this thread. Don't worry about Heinike...Snyder's a clown . He'll trade for some washed up QB like  Carr and jettison Henike. Car's got the prototypical big arm and put's up numbers. Doesn't matter that he's a garbage QB and Heinike's a baller. Car's got what plants need. 

[Koolblue13]

QB was such a missing piece yesterday. Game wouldn't have been close if we had a better one. Pass rusher too. Those were the missing keys and why we didn't dominate them start to finish.

 

I like Heinicke a lot and he's definitely good enough to be our bridge QB, we can stay out of reclamation project bin this offseason, but I'd still go all out for one of the big 3 that I doubt we get and have to draft one for the future. 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

QB was such a missing piece yesterday. Game wouldn't have been close if we had a better one. Pass rusher too. Those were the missing keys and why we didn't dominate them start to finish.

 

I like Heinicke a lot and he's definitely good enough to be our bridge QB, we can stay out of reclamation project bin this offseason, but I'd still go all out for one of the big 3 that I doubt we get and have to draft one for the future. 

 

I disagree with this.

 

Our line was the missing piece yesterday. They were really, really bad.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I disagree with this.

 

Our line was the missing piece yesterday. They were really, really bad.

Ngakou has had 5 sacks in 6 games and Crosby is a baller. We knew before the game they were gonna be hitting Heinicke often. They also sold out on stopping the run and let us pass when we wanted and the QB couldn't get the ball out quick enough. Heinicke resorted back to the pre bye QB he was and it showed. We had 3 people in the gd thread who were at the game and said our guys ran open on every play.

 

When the Raiders didn't bring more than 4 guys, very little pressure and that's with Ismael starting, bu RT, flowers hurt, Scherff always hurt, no McKissic to pass protect. 

 

Raiders sold out to stop our run game and short passing, with their safeties constantly blowing up our screens. And we couldn't take advantage and burn them because we can't throw deep.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Ngakou has had 5 sacks in 6 games and Crosby is a baller. We knew before the game they were gonna be hitting Heinicke often. They also sold out on stopping the run and let us pass when we wanted and the QB couldn't get the ball out quick enough. Heinicke resorted back to the pre bye QB he was and it showed. We had 3 people in the gd thread who were at the game and said our guys ran open on every play.

 

When the Raiders didn't bring more than 4 guys, very little pressure and that's with Ismael starting, bu RT, flowers hurt, Scherff always hurt, no McKissic to pass protect. 

 

Raiders sold out to stop our run game and short passing, with their safeties constantly blowing up our screens. And we couldn't take advantage and burn them because we can't throw deep.

 

Heinicke didn't have time to throw deep. I'm not opposed to the thought that Heinicke lacks some arm strength. But he was under constant durress. I understand their pass rushers are good. Crosby may be the best in the league. But we didn't scheme around that appropriately. Our protections were lacking. Leno was in dual reads more than a few times and responsible for two rushers. Lucas had no business on Crosby 1 on 1. 

 

I bet guys were running open, but there was constant pressure on Heinicke and he had to perform Houdini acts at times to even get a throw off. He made a really bad decision on that last drive with the ball and he has to cut down on those. The pick that was actually caught was due to Crosby's pressure.

 

I'm not opposed to the idea that a true franchise level guy allows us to crush the Raiders. Heinicke isn't a "TRUE" franchise level guy. But I think we are entirely too fast to want to replace something that is, for the most part, working. A "TRUE" franchise quarterback is SO difficult to find. If you trade for them you mortgage the future. To draft one you need to be a top pick in the draft or have someone fall into your lap. They are extremely rare.

 

I just don't want us to give up stupid resources when we have a guy on the roster who has balls of brass that the team wants to rally around. That locker room aspect is a really, really big part of a quarterback's success. We have that with Heinicke. Will that continue? I don't know.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Heinicke didn't have time to throw deep. I'm not opposed to the thought that Heinicke lacks some arm strength. But he was under constant durress. I understand their pass rushers are good. Crosby may be the best in the league. But we didn't scheme around that appropriately. Our protections were lacking. Leno was in dual reads more than a few times and responsible for two rushers. Lucas had no business on Crosby 1 on 1. 

 

I bet guys were running open, but there was constant pressure on Heinicke and he had to perform Houdini acts at times to even get a throw off. He made a really bad decision on that last drive with the ball and he has to cut down on those. The pick that was actually caught was due to Crosby's pressure.

 

I'm not opposed to the idea that a true franchise level guy allows us to crush the Raiders. Heinicke isn't a "TRUE" franchise level guy. But I think we are entirely too fast to want to replace something that is, for the most part, working. A "TRUE" franchise quarterback is SO difficult to find. If you trade for them you mortgage the future. To draft one you need to be a top pick in the draft or have someone fall into your lap. They are extremely rare.

 

I just don't want us to give up stupid resources when we have a guy on the roster who has balls of brass that the team wants to rally around. That locker room aspect is a really, really big part of a quarterback's success. We have that with Heinicke. Will that continue? I don't know.

I like Heinicke and I want him to be the guy so freaking badly. I want to draft either LBer or FS first round, never QB. 

 

Yes, he faced a lot of pressure yesterday, but not every play and the second half we adjusted pretty well to the pressure and still couldn't capitalize. Terry was in single coverage most of the day with no deep safety help often. The high throws, the late throws on quick passes, the 8 second drop backs were all there yesterday. I mentioned in the prediction thread that Heini loves taking sacks and this defense is one to oblige him. They did.

 

 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I like Heinicke and I want him to be the guy so freaking badly. I want to draft either LBer or FS first round, never QB. 

 

Yes, he faced a lot of pressure yesterday, but not every play and the second half we adjusted pretty well to the pressure and still couldn't capitalize. Terry was in single coverage most of the day with no deep safety help often. The high throws, the late throws on quick passes, the 8 second drop backs were all there yesterday. I mentioned in the prediction thread that Heini loves taking sacks and this defense is one to oblige him. They did.

 

 

 

No, he didn't face pressure on every single play. But when you are under constant pressure you feel pressure that isn't there and you feel like you need to create. He felt that and it led to him forcing some throws.

 

He makes mistakes and isn't perfect. But I really want our fanbase to understand that sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side. Would I like to be developing a rookie QB right now? Absolutely. Would it be nice to have Mac Jones? Justin Fields? Yes. We could have had them. We didn't. Now we have Heinicke and I think even though he's NOT a rookie you have to evaluate him as if he is. Is he improving week to week? Giving you a chance to win? Does the team believe? That's the criteria we need to look at. 

 

And then in the draft if a QB the team loves is there at our pick.... and they think it'll be an upgrade... Take that guy. By all means. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water just because.