Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[Thinking Skins]

42 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

My position has always been you can start Taylor until you can find the QB that you need. You don't need to rush into trying to find that gem. If next year QB class doesn't have a QB that meets or exceeds your expectations then you roll with TH. I really don't have a problem with that. It gives you time to fix other issues and then drop in said QB. 

 

You are not going to SB with our D anyway. What is the rush?

 

I wanted to see what TH can do after the playoff game. I still like him to play out this year if Fitz can't make it back. I don't care for Allen.

This i kinda disagree with. At minimum he needs competition next year. At best it's a rookie who we're grooming to start but not under any pressure.

[PartyPosse]

59 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I was one of the main ones sticking up for Haskins and I'll blatantly point out that I like Heinicke's style more. I thought Haskins style was something to learn to play in the league and to survive, ala what Smith has done for years. But it's not exciting football. Throwing short of the sticks, not throwing contested balls, etc. I could deal with it because I thought he was growing. Even with Smith I could deal with it because we were winning and playoff push. But Heinicke I like because I can hoot and hollar in my living room the whole drive. We were down 21 to 7 and I was tempted to turn it off but I thought about other games when he's brought us back quickly. Then he drives us down to the goal line and should have scored. If he scores there, there's no question in my mind we win that game. But even still he drives us down again and we should have scored again. It's just fun to watch. 

If you could put Taylor's drive and moxie in Dwayne's body, we'd have our QB.

[Berggy9598]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

 

My position has always been you can start Taylor until you can find the QB that you need. You don't need to rush into trying to find that gem. If next year QB class doesn't have a QB that meets or exceeds your expectations then you roll with TH. I really don't have a problem with that. It gives you time to fix other issues and then drop in said QB. 

 

You are not going to SB with our D anyway. What is the rush?

 

I wanted to see what TH can do after the playoff game. I still like him to play out this year if Fitz can't make it back. I don't care for Allen.

Well yeah if Heinicke is your long term starter you land a high draft pick year after year and eventually you find the QB you like. I see the logic. 

[skinny21]

43 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

Well yeah if Heinicke is your long term starter you land a high draft pick year after year and eventually you find the QB you like. I see the logic. 

With our luck, we’d win 6 every year.

 

I have to say though, I’d be curious what he’d look like with a top notch receiver opposite Terry.  Right now, he’s doing about how I envisioned Fitzpatrick doing without Samuel (albeit more rushing yards, but a bit less in the passing game) - somewhat below average.

[tomwvr]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it would be more accurate to say "You can do that with any below average QB in the NFL"

 

All QBs miss an open guy every once in a while, but with good ones those are few and far between for the most part. Guys who consistently miss open receivers and/or can't get the ball to them are generally seen as below average.

 

And I agree that it's fairer to compared Heinicke to backups, but he's currently the starting QB as well as a guy who some people here insisted was our answer at the position. So for now he'll be compared to other starting QBs.

I would have loved to see him do great. I think it’s good that the team got to see him play. The people that I have problems with are those that say he was back up in the xfl and don’t even look at him.

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

If you could put Taylor's drive and moxie in Dwayne's body, we'd have our QB.

I said that a few weeks ago on an nbc sports article on face book and was called a racist….

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Berggy9598 said:

Well yeah if Heinicke is your long term starter you land a high draft pick year after year and eventually you find the QB you like. I see the logic. 

 

That's called losing, i thought we were tired of that : /

[NoCalMike]

TH might end up starting the rest of the year because it seems like Fitz isn't progressing along as fast as one would hope.  We already know what Kyle Allen offers.   All this is still irrelevant to whether TH is a long term solution, which I would argue, he isn't.    He has shown enough now, positive & negative, to make it clear that the search at the QB position continues on into another offseason.

[Thinking Skins]

4 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

If you could put Taylor's drive and moxie in Dwayne's body, we'd have our QB.

Honestly there aren't many QBs with that mentality. That's what I like the most about him. He's like the anti Cousins. I shouldn't say that but also anti Smith. And anti Haskins. It's like so much of what we wanted in these guys is present in Heinicke. Unfortunately he doesn't have their arms or their size. If he were 23 I'd be all over him being the QB going forward. At 28ish I'm more like he can be a bridge QB while he learns but I don't see him having a ceiling that's above say a bottom level starter in the league. 

 

I'll say though that one thing I like about him is his mobility and some games it's been painful to watch because he's trying not to get hurt (and remembering to Rg3 I understand) but that takes away the most exciting part of his game. 

 

This is one of the reasons I could live with a lower round athletic QB who is a hard worker. It's why I could see us going for Tribusky or Mariota. But I don't think either of those guys have the mentality of Heinicke. I liked Mond and Newman because of this. But I had (have) questions about Newman's work ethic and we haven't seen Mond yet. I liked Lance above Jones (thinking they might both fall to us) for this reason. 

 

But like Rg3. Almost all these guys have injury reports so that's another thing with these QBs. They need to learn to avoid hits and get down without giving up first downs and touchdowns. 

[CjSuAvE22]

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Honestly there aren't many QBs with that mentality. That's what I like the most about him. He's like the anti Cousins. I shouldn't say that but also anti Smith. And anti Haskins. It's like so much of what we wanted in these guys is present in Heinicke. Unfortunately he doesn't have their arms or their size. If he were 23 I'd be all over him being the QB going forward. At 28ish I'm more like he can be a bridge QB while he learns but I don't see him having a ceiling that's above say a bottom level starter in the league. 

 

 

What do you mean so much of what we wanted from Cousins is present in Heinicke? Im not sure they are in the same universe in terms of quarterbacking skills in the NFL but id like to hear what u have to say with examples of what is present in Heinicke that Cousins didn't have.

[zCommander]

5 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

This i kinda disagree with. At minimum he needs competition next year. At best it's a rookie who we're grooming to start but not under any pressure.

 

Well the competition is kinda implied as it is part of off-season/camp stuff. If you don't draft a QB or get one in FA who is the competition? Fitz? Allen?

 

3 hours ago, Berggy9598 said:

Well yeah if Heinicke is your long term starter you land a high draft pick year after year and eventually you find the QB you like. I see the logic. 

 

If you gonna mock make sure you know how logic works first.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

33 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

What do you mean so much of what we wanted from Cousins is present in Heinicke? Im not sure they are in the same universe in terms of quarterbacking skills in the NFL but id like to hear what u have to say with examples of what is present in Heinicke that Cousins didn't have.

Off script. Cousins never scrambled. And rarely tried to make a play happen. We'd see the occasional bootleg but he became so averse to throwing into coverage when he was here that it became frustrating. We had Doctson whose thing was supposed to be 50 50 balls and cousins wouldn't throw them. I get that initially he threw a lot of pics doing this but he did a complete 180 that it made it hard to watch. 

 

Cousins is definitely a better QB. Not even a question. But those are two areas of Cousins game that I don't miss.

[Berggy9598]

33 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Well the competition is kinda implied as it is part of off-season/camp stuff. If you don't draft a QB or get one in FA who is the competition? Fitz? Allen?

 

 

If you gonna mock make sure you know how logic works first.

 

 

I’m too busy knowing how legit NFL starting QBs work thanks to prime time games and the late game window on Redzone. 

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Off script. Cousins never scrambled. And rarely tried to make a play happen. We'd see the occasional bootleg but he became so averse to throwing into coverage when he was here that it became frustrating. We had Doctson whose thing was supposed to be 50 50 balls and cousins wouldn't throw them. I get that initially he threw a lot of pics doing this but he did a complete 180 that it made it hard to watch. 

 

Cousins is definitely a better QB. Not even a question. But those are two areas of Cousins game that I don't miss.

The first part is factually incorrect. 

[CjSuAvE22]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Off script. Cousins never scrambled. And rarely tried to make a play happen. We'd see the occasional bootleg but he became so averse to throwing into coverage when he was here that it became frustrating. We had Doctson whose thing was supposed to be 50 50 balls and cousins wouldn't throw them. I get that initially he threw a lot of pics doing this but he did a complete 180 that it made it hard to watch. 

 

Cousins is definitely a better QB. Not even a question. But those are two areas of Cousins game that I don't miss.

Docston was a bad receiver....not NFL caliber at all I don't think he even made a single catch for another team outside of this one, he had trouble running routes if you can't run routes don't expect your qb to look your way this is a pro league, as to something else you said about not throwing into coverage, just look at the "you like that game" two tds to Reed, he had 3 or more defenders around then look at the wheel route to Jamison Crowder...thats 3 examples of throwing into coverage right there in one game, cousins also scrambled for a td that day as well..I dunno man I think we watched two separate Kirk Cousins imo. But I can see how the 8-7/9-7/7-9 teams got boring to watch and u got bored of Cousins, and some of that was definitely his fault but if you think the defense is bad this year, some of the years Cousins had a defense that was simply non existent with barely any turnovers etc...not saying it was the defenses fault during those seasons because He should have definitely one the games we needed to win to make the playoffs that year but it wasn't all on cousins imo being able to lead us to success. Either way we are now stuck in QB purgatory with 3 Qbs on a roster who probably wouldn't even make it on other teams..

[mistertim]

10 hours ago, Berggy9598 said:

 

The first part is factually incorrect. 

 

I think the general gist of what he's saying is that Kirk was at his best when he was playing within the system and it was working well. He's capable of making off schedule plays when things break down, but that's definitely not his strong suit, whereas with Heinicke scrambling and making plays when things break down is where he excels.

[Voice_of_Reason]

36 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think the general gist of what he's saying is that Kirk was at his best when he was playing within the system and it was working well. He's capable of making off schedule plays when things break down, but that's definitely not his strong suit, whereas with Heinicke scrambling and making plays when things break down is where he excels.

Agreed. However, he does better making off schedule plays with his legs then with his arm.  He can make some plays with his arm, but we’ve also seen him be wildly inaccurate when throwing on the run, mostly throwing high.

 

And this is the conundrum: TH has just about everything you want in a starting NFL QB, at least one you can groom, except one thing: an NFL arm.  
 

He actually reminds me a bit of Kellen Moore, current OC for the Cowboys, but previously a really good QB for Bosie State.  
 

he came out in 2012, and I remember watching the combine because we were going to pick one.

 

And watching Moore throw against air in comparison to the other QBs throwing, you could just see the ball didn’t do the same thing it did for others.  And Griffin and Luck didn’t even throw. 
 

Did Moore have a heck of a good college career? Yes.  Did he win a lot? Yes.  Did he have the physical tools to be an NFL QB? No.  
 

TH to me is the same.  He has just about every you want in order to say you can try to develop him.  Except the arm talent you need in the NFL.

 

Moore is now an OC and probably will be a HC.  He recognized his limitations and quickly moved on.

 

I don’t know if TH will do that or not.  But he just doesn’t have what you need to even be a developmental guy.  He can be a backup.  That’s about it.  Which is unfortunate.  But it is what it is.  

 

Arm talent isn’t everything.  But it’s table stakes.  If you don’t have it, you’re done.  If you do have it, you’re in the game.  It doesn’t mean you will win, but at least you can play.  

[Koolblue13]

Now this is what I call moxie. Not floundering into the endzone so you can fulfill your childhood dream. 

[Llevron]

52 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Now this is what I call moxie. Not floundering into the endzone so you can fulfill your childhood dream. 

 

I remember when Steve Smith did this. One of my fav moments ever just cause he was so ready for the BS 

 

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

44 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I remember when Steve Smith did this. One of my fav moments ever just cause he was so ready for the BS 

 

 

 

 

Definitely a good one.

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And this is the conundrum: TH has just about everything you want in a starting NFL QB, at least one you can groom, except one thing: an NFL arm.  

No conundrum. Just unfortunate. He doesn’t have the one thing that’s absolutely required to do his job well.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

No conundrum. Just unfortunate. He doesn’t have the one thing that’s absolutely required to do his job well.

The thing I've been thinking is that he's just gassed. He's never been a starter throwing this much every single day. Maybe a full year of it and an offseason and maybe that improves next season. I dont know. He was throwing with a lot more velocity and zip when he first started and it's gotten progressively worse.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The thing I've been thinking is that he's just gassed. He's never been a starter throwing this much every single day. Maybe a full year of it and an offseason and maybe that improves next season. I dont know. He was throwing with a lot more velocity and zip when he first started and it's gotten progressively worse.

Eh, I'm no so sure.  He threw for a million yards in college.  Threw just about every play for years.  The beat guys pointed out his lack of arm strength in training camp.  I commented on a stupid Instagram video where he and Fitz were throwing the same route, and you could tell the difference.

 

I think you might be seeing an optical illusion.  Defenses have figured him out a bit, what he likes to do, what he doesn't, and they are starting to force him to make throws he can't really make.  It's why a lot of QBs have sophomore slumps.  The ones who can figure out how teams are playing them and then still beat them end up being the legitimate starting QBs.

 

Unfortunately, TH might know what to do, he just can't do it.  

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Eh, I'm no so sure.  He threw for a million yards in college.  Threw just about every play for years.  The beat guys pointed out his lack of arm strength in training camp.  I commented on a stupid Instagram video where he and Fitz were throwing the same route, and you could tell the difference.

 

I think you might be seeing an optical illusion.  Defenses have figured him out a bit, what he likes to do, what he doesn't, and they are starting to force him to make throws he can't really make.  It's why a lot of QBs have sophomore slumps.  The ones who can figure out how teams are playing them and then still beat them end up being the legitimate starting QBs.

 

Unfortunately, TH might know what to do, he just can't do it.  

Just trying to be optimistic. I think he's probably starting his last professional game Sunday.

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Just trying to be optimistic. I think he's probably starting his last professional game Sunday.

 

Why is Fitz coming back after the bye?

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Why is Fitz coming back after the bye?

There is a theory if TH stinks it up, Ron could go to Kyle Allen if Fitzy is still weeks away.

 

I doubt it personally.  I don’t think Ron wants to make 2 switches and I do think Fitz will start when he’s ready.  

[Thinking Skins]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Agreed. However, he does better making off schedule plays with his legs then with his arm.  He can make some plays with his arm, but we’ve also seen him be wildly inaccurate when throwing on the run, mostly throwing high.

 

And this is the conundrum: TH has just about everything you want in a starting NFL QB, at least one you can groom, except one thing: an NFL arm.  
 

He actually reminds me a bit of Kellen Moore, current OC for the Cowboys, but previously a really good QB for Bosie State.  
 

he came out in 2012, and I remember watching the combine because we were going to pick one.

 

And watching Moore throw against air in comparison to the other QBs throwing, you could just see the ball didn’t do the same thing it did for others.  And Griffin and Luck didn’t even throw. 
 

Did Moore have a heck of a good college career? Yes.  Did he win a lot? Yes.  Did he have the physical tools to be an NFL QB? No.  
 

TH to me is the same.  He has just about every you want in order to say you can try to develop him.  Except the arm talent you need in the NFL.

 

Moore is now an OC and probably will be a HC.  He recognized his limitations and quickly moved on.

 

I don’t know if TH will do that or not.  But he just doesn’t have what you need to even be a developmental guy.  He can be a backup.  That’s about it.  Which is unfortunate.  But it is what it is.  

 

Arm talent isn’t everything.  But it’s table stakes.  If you don’t have it, you’re done.  If you do have it, you’re in the game.  It doesn’t mean you will win, but at least you can play.  

This is an interesting comp. On one hand because Moore is a pretty good OC but also because Heinicke was about to quit and go into coaching last year. And we were just calling for him to be the guy to groom a rookie (heck out maybe a vet) and possibly help teach Turner's system. So if we get an athletic QB like him but with a better arm, maybe he can tell that guy some things like Smith told Haskins (with better effect).