Heinicke Hive: The LEGEND of Taylor Heinicke Thread

[zCommander]

31 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

You know you want one Jumbo.

 

@LetThePointsSoar I think it is time to re-name this thread to: The LEGEND of Taylor HEINICKE!

 

[ODU AGGIE]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So saying "He's looked good in very limited time, but I think we need to see more before we decide that he's the future of the franchise" is trying to "take down" Heinicke? Do you really not think Ron and the other coaches would probably say the exact same thing?

 

True, in the 2 games he has started, he has played well. You don't think it's understandable to want to see more before crowning him?

You know, MT, in a way Ron did crown him when he did not run out and bring in a free agent or trade for a known entity sitting on someone else's roster as a backup after Fitz went down. He could have brought in Cam Newton for instance, but he didn't. I think that shows a level confidence and "crowning"  when he basically gave TH the reins and said,"alright, the team is yours. Go get 'em."

[Malapropismic Depository]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This is really early...

 

10 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Rest of the season?  Nah, he needs to win some more games, its still about winning and who gives best xhance to win. Buffalo is a big test.

 

 

 

 

You said before the game it was a "can he do it or not" game against the giants" and laid out your expectation to score 20+ points and also win.

He did both of those things and much more.

So why does he need to win a bunch more games to prove he's legit, if he fully passed the "Can he do it or not" game ?

 

 

On 9/14/2021 at 5:20 PM, Renegade7 said:

 

This is a "can he do it or not" game against the giants, losing and scoring less then 20 points again isn't gonna fly.

 

[srtman04]

2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

 

You said before the game it was a "can he do it or not" game against the giants" and laid out your expectation to score 20+ points and also win.

He did both of those things and much more.

So why does he need to win a bunch more games to prove he's legit, if he fully passed the "Can he do it or not" game ?

 

 

 

 

Now he has graduated to the "Can he do it again or not" camp next.   Let's see if he passes that test!  

[ODU AGGIE]

4 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Now he has graduated to the "Can he do it again or not" camp next.   Let's see if he passes that test!  

Methinks someone is moving the goalpost.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

 

You said before the game it was a "can he do it or not" game against the giants" and laid out your expectation to score 20+ points and also win.

He did both of those things and much more.

So why does he need to win a bunch more games to prove he's legit, if he fully passed the "Can he do it or not" game ?

 

 

 

 

He needs to prove he can do it consistently, but that was a game he could not lose if he wanted a chance to stay the starter.  The two are not the same conversation.  He passed the first test, thats not the only test.

1 minute ago, ODU AGGIE said:

Methinks someone is moving the goalpost.

 

Its the same process every QB goes through, do it once and do it consistently. 

[ODU AGGIE]

20 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

To be fair, Fitz was signed to start and won the starting job over Taylor in August.

 

This is really early...

I truly believe that Fitz would have had to suffer a serious hip injury during training camp in order to lose that starting QB "competition".

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

You know, MT, in a way Ron did crown him when he did not run out and bring in a free agent or trade for a known entity sitting on someone else's roster as a backup after Fitz went down. He could have brought in Cam Newton for instance, but he didn't. I think that shows a level confidence and "crowning"  when he basically gave TH the reins and said,"alright, the team is yours. Go get 'em."

 

I think there's less than zero chance that Ron is interested in Cam. The FA pickings are super slim. Nobody out there who's anything close to an upgrade unless we want to try to trade for another team's backup.

 

Heinicke was the backup for a reason; the team thought he could take over if Fitz got hurt. That's what happened. They're letting him run with it.

 

I wouldn't really call that "crowning" him, as what I meant by that was saying "Yep. This guy is our QB of the future." I doubt they're anywhere close to that point at the moment, though that could certainly change by the end of the season.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’m trying to not let these dudes make me dislike Taylor sort of like the Alex Smith stans did when they showed up after the trade.  They made me like Smith less by telling me how great he was and how dare I not just thank my lucky stars we had him.  I already like Taylor more as a QB.  But maybe I just need to avoid this thread to continue favoring him.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I truly believe that Fitz would have had to suffer a serious hip injury during training camp in order to lose that starting QB "competition".

Not sure what you getting at here.

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Its the same process every QB goes through, do it once and do it consistently. 

Yeah I really don't get why some people see this as weird or controversial. Every QB has to prove he can play consistently well over a period of time before the franchise truly believes that he's the future. Heinicke has played well in 2 starts. The process of persuading the coaches and FO that he's the QB of the future has only just started.

 

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Not sure what you getting at here.

 

They basically seem to think the competition was fraudulent since Heinicke didn't win. I think Fitz was in the lead for the starting job from the beginning but I don't think Ron would necessarily have had a problem with changing his mind if Heinicke truly dominated during camp.

Edited September 17, 2021 by mistertim

[ODU AGGIE]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m trying to not let these dudes make me dislike Taylor sort of like the Alex Smith stans did when they showed up after the trade.  They made me like Smith less by telling me how great he was and how dare I not just thank my lucky stars we had him.  I already like Taylor more as a QB.  But maybe I just need to avoid this thread to continue favoring him.

I suspect you said that kind of tongue-in-cheek, but, nah, don't let newbie posters and Heinicke fans like me run you off. We need folks like you to keep us grounded. Cheers!

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m trying to not let these dudes make me dislike Taylor sort of like the Alex Smith stans did when they showed up after the trade.  They made me like Smith less by telling me how great he was and how dare I not just thank my lucky stars we had him.  I already like Taylor more as a QB.  But maybe I just need to avoid this thread to continue favoring him.

 

I recall having the exact same internal battle in the Colt Brennan days. I liked him and thought he seemed like a genuinely decent dude who had some talent. But the Cult of Colt that showed up and kept telling us that he's the best QB EVAR and he needed to become the starter because they said so got so old that I had to consciously try to make sure I was distancing my questions about Colt's play from him as a person so I didn't start to actively dislike him due to that crap.

[ODU AGGIE]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Yeah I really don't get why some people see this as weird or controversial. Every QB has to prove he can play consistently well over a period of time before the franchise truly believes that he's the future. Heinicke has played well in 2 starts. The process of persuading the coaches and FO that he's the QB of the future has only just started.

 

 

They basically seem to think the competition was fraudulent since Heinicke didn't win. I think Fitz was in the lead for the starting job from the beginning but I don't think Ron would necessarily have had a problem with changing his mind if Heinicke truly dominated during camp.

In no way do I think nor did I mean to insinuate that the competition was fraudulent. What I was saying was that Fitz was the QB1 at that time and he would have to glaringly be worse than TH for that to change. RR had openly said that failing to have a competition for QB1 the previous year was a mistake that he was not going to make again, so there had to be a competition. But clearly, it was Fitz's to hold on to unless he just flat blew it, and he did not.

[Malapropismic Depository]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

He needs to prove he can do it consistently,

 

Its the same process every QB goes through, do it once and do it consistently. 

 

Doing it for 3 consecutive games is pretty consistent.

He's performed at the same high level in all 3 of those consecutive games.

2 of them may not have been wins, but he gets a pass on both of them because one of them was against the World Champs, and the other one against LAC, he didn't get the opportunity to play the whole game, and most objective thinkers  believe he would have won that game, had he started it.

Also, he played a 4th game for us against Carolina, which was almost identical to LAC. He was on a pace to win it, if he didn't inherit a crappy situation in the game, and only get a portion of it, to win it.

So, that's all 4 games for us, he played at an extremely high level.

That's consistency.

22 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

Methinks someone is moving the goalpost.

 

I thought he was joking.

At least I hope he was joking.

Maybe not.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Doing it for 3 consecutive games is pretty consistent.

 

 

I have a feeling precisely zero NFL coaches would hang their hat on a QB as being the future of their franchise after 3 games. For 1st round draft picks there's certainly the hope and the clear aim is that they'll become that guy, but it's not going to be assumed until after they've had a fair amount of time.

 

I'm guessing the plan for now is to see how Heinicke does for the next 4-6 weeks and then when Fitz is healthy again reevaluate the situation. Even if they decide to keep TH as the starter, I'm guessing they'll use the whole season to evaluate him.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Doing it for 3 consecutive games is pretty consistent.

He's performed at the same high level in all 3 of those consecutive games.

2 of them may not have been wins, but he gets a pass on both of them because one of them was against the World Champs, and the other one against LAC, he didn't get the opportunity to play the whole game, and most objective thinkers  believe he would have won that game, had he started it.

Also, he played a 4th game for us against Carolina, which was almost identical to LAC. He was on a pace to win it, if he didn't inherit a crappy situation in the game, and only get a portion of it, to win it.

So, that's all 4 games for us, he played at an extremely high level.

That's consistency.

 

Huh? Hes 1-3 then, hes not winning consistently, I thought thats why we were here.  We only scored 16 points last week, so its not like he had a great game.  I'm not buying your sample size, did we all forget what we went through with Kirk? 

 

Beyond too early in convo to be talking about him proving he deserves the keys now.  He's earned the right to play over Kyle Allen right now, let's keep this in perspective so we don't rip him down if he has a bad game.

[Burgundy Yoda]

49 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So saying "He's looked good in very limited time, but I think we need to see more before we decide that he's the future of the franchise" is trying to "take down" Heinicke? Do you really not think Ron and the other coaches would probably say the exact same thing?

 

True, in the 2 games he has started, he has played well. You don't think it's understandable to want to see more before crowning him?

I personally think our QB play has been so awful that we have to take the good when it comes, even if it's just one game at a time. For two games Heinicke has looked good and that's exciting. I think our fanbase is so damaged that we expect things like this not to turn out in our favor. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Huh? Hes 1-3 then, hes not winning consistently, I thought thats why we were here.

 

 

It doesn't sound like you read my post

I said he's performing consistently. That's indisputable. He has done his job, in every single one of those games.

Not all those losses are on him.

Performing consistently as an individual, is enough to initially win a starting job in the NFL.

He has won the job.

 

Anyone can wait until QB has a record of 35-11, and say he's a great QB.

Anyone.

That doesn't take much thought.

But there are times when you can see talent, long before that QB has a winning record.

 

[Berggy9598]

35 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I suspect you said that kind of tongue-in-cheek, but, nah, don't let newbie posters and Heinicke fans like me run you off. We need folks like you to keep us grounded. Cheers!

The numbers game in terms of undrafted QBs turning into high level starters should be enough to keep you grounded. The odds of even getting a Tony Romo or Jeff García are minuscule. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Berggy9598

[ODU AGGIE]

4 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

The numbers game in terms of undrafted QBs turning into high level starters should be enough to keep you grounded. The odds of even getting a Tony Romo or Jeff García are minuscule. 

So, you're saying there's a chance?

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

It doesn't sound like you read my post

I said he's performing consistently. That's indisputable. He has done his job, in every single one of those games.

Not all those losses are on him.

Performing consistently as an individual, is enough to initially win a starting job in the NFL.

He has won the job.

 

Anyone can wait until QB has a record of 35-11, and say he's a great QB.

Anyone.

That doesn't take much thought.

But there are times when you can see talent, long before that QB has a winning record.

 

 

I did read your post and saying something like 35-11 is rediculous.  We scored 16 points last week and got Bills up next, Giants are garbage.  He has talent, most do at this level. He has to beat a good team, this was a test Kirk never passed, he still hasn't played Dallas yet.  I'm saying its early, sticking to that.

7 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

The numbers game in terms of undrafted QBs turning into high level starters should be enough to keep you grounded. The odds of even getting a Tony Romo or Jeff García are minuscule. 

 

Right this is not normal, hes passing the eye test so far in my book, but he's been bouncing around a lot before he got here.  Great story so far.

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

The numbers game in terms of undrafted QBs turning into high level starters should be enough to keep you grounded. The odds of even getting a Tony Romo or Jeff García are minuscule. 

 

@Llevron this is the type of circular logic I find maddening FYI.

 

It's Bayes' Theorem / conditional probability. Yes if you picked a random UDFA QB out of a hat, the chances he'd be a Romo or Garcia is miniscule. But if you're looking at a guy who is performing at a high level in live fire NFL games in ways that are intrinsically sustainable (e.g. going thru reads etc. vs. pure RPO), then the probability is no longer miniscule. In fact, the draft caliber becomes irrelevant.

 

Taylor should be judged purely on his ability to perform as a starting quarterback in the NFL. 

 

So tell me this: in this moment, for this season, would you rather have Heinicke as starting QB at his $1.6M cap hit or Kirk Cousins at his $31M cap hit (and for arguments sake need to cut/trade guys to get under the cap)? Because I take Heinicke.

 

Based on what we've seen thus far, if the draft were tomorrow and we had the #10 pick would you use it on a QB or a different position assuming BPA was a tie? Because I'd be looking at LB again, secondary, or OL in that order.

 

I don't think anyone is "crowning" Taylor. We're just excited and think we may have found our guy. But I don't think even ODU Aggie would say let's extend Heinicke at $25M/year, and that's what "crowning" him would actually look like. 

 

Yes, let's watch him perform consistently before making any forward-looking decisions. I think we're all in agreement there. But I refuse not to indulge my excitement in the meantime when the kid is balling like no QB has since 2012 RG3.

[Morneblade]

38 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I personally think our QB play has been so awful that we have to take the good when it comes, even if it's just one game at a time. For two games Heinicke has looked good and that's exciting. I think our fanbase is so damaged that we expect things like this not to turn out in our favor. 

 

Are they wrong?

 

If you're new you here,(not you specifically, but say, ODU fans that were not WTF fans) and not that familiar with just how BAD it's been, it's understandable to think fans that have been here for 30, 40, 50+ years are just being pessimistic. But we are just not going to bite, after going through this roller coaster for 30+ years. There is Lucy. With the football. And she's asking me if I want to kick it.

 

Yeah, not falling for that one............................again.

 

So, for the guys that think a couple games makes you a starter in the league, I submit guys like Scott Mitchell, Matt Flynn and others that had a really nice stretch of games.....and did nothing else the rest of their careers. As for WTF fans, recent history has not been kind here.

RGlll had a great rookie season. But after that, it was obvious he couldn't read NFL defenses and he's out of the league.

Capt. Kirk had a nice run and then used it to get a big contract with the Vikes. Who are not really happy with him right now.

Hell, even the Sex Dragon, Rex Grossman, actually played well for a few games. And then played abysmally.

 

What I'm getting at, and others are getting at, is that while we are absolutely LOVING what we are seeing, we can't trust it.

 

Not yet.

 

We've seen this too many times, from too many people for it to all go belly up. Every single time.

 

So, we need something substantial. Honestly, a full season might be what it takes.

 

Now, if you're already 100% on board, this might seem a little much. But if you walk in our shoes for a mile, I guarantee you're gonna have serious PTSD and need therapy. It's been historically bad. Especially if you're like me, and grew up in the 70's and 80's and KNOW what a really good QB can do for this team. And have been teased for 30 years.

 

We are leery as all getout.

 

But we so, so WANT to trust it. I WANT a goddamed Kurt Warner Story starring Taylor Heinicke. I WANT HIM TO WIN MULTIPLE SB'S WITH US, BE ALL PRO AND END UP IN THE GODDAMED HoF.

 

But right now, I don't trust Lucy with that goddamed ball.

 

That, is where the fan base is collectively. Wanting this to work REALLY bad, but have had a string of 20+ duds that make it hard to just "trust".

Edited September 18, 2021 by Morneblade

[moondog]

There’s no denying how well he’s played and everything he brings to the table. I just want to see it consistently (to include protecting the football both running and passing) and for him to stay healthy. I’m a believer but we’ve had a lot of qb injuries the last few years so I’m definitely gunshy about that.