The Vaccine Thread

[TMK9973]

I just saw a report where FOX news is requiring employees disclose their vaccination status.

Thats kinda funny.  

[PartyPosse]

29 minutes ago, purbeast said:

To be fair, while he is a professional athlete, he is also clinically obese and has a very high BMI.

 

I wonder how much being that much overweight had to do with how bad he had it.

It's an interesting dynamic in that while categorized as obese, his lungs are probably in great shape. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Sticksboi05]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

You can do what you want, I don’t know why you’d be so vehemently against it unless you think there are some detriments to it, which in a way does make you an anti-Vaxxer (even though I know you’re not). Like I said, you don’t realize the potential repercussions until it’s too late.

 

Also, I got J&J back in April, so it’d been about 2 months when I contracted it. Being in Vegas at a casino, it’s not all the surprising which is why I do think context matters. Being in a Petri dish like Vegas I do think yin need to take extra precautions than say a rural town in Idaho that doesn’t get a lot of travelers coming through.

 

JnJ is also much lower efficacy against symptomatic disease than the mRNA vaccines, which plays into it. I hope you get back to normal quickly.

 

The argument against booster is – there is a finite amount of vaccine supply and that will do more benefit going into the arms of people who are completely unprotected here and abroad. As long as places around the globe have completely unprotected populations where this is replicating, it's only a matter of time until more dangerous variants make their way here. Community spread would also decrease if we got more initial shots into arms vs. boosters.

[PartyPosse]

10 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

JnJ is also much lower efficacy against symptomatic disease than the mRNA vaccines, which plays into it. I hope you get back to normal quickly.

 

The argument against booster is – there is a finite amount of vaccine supply and that will do more benefit going into the arms of people who are completely unprotected here and abroad. As long as places around the globe have completely unprotected populations where this is replicating, it's only a matter of time until more dangerous variants make their way here. Community spread would also decrease if we got more initial shots into arms vs. boosters.

If that’s the argument, as TMK also mentioned then I’m on board with that 100% and I apologize if my responses came off snarky and omniscient. 

[skinsmarydu]

I'll do whatever Dr. Fauci says.  I never want to see a hospital again.

 

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

I'll do whatever Dr. Fauci says.  I never want to see a hospital again.

 

[Sticksboi05]

8 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

I'll do whatever Dr. Fauci says.  I never want to see a hospital again.

 

 

Agreed.

 

And this is part of the push back on boosters from many health experts. They will have minimal impact on hospitalizations - two doses of mRNA are still extremely protective vs. Delta when it comes to severe illness and hospitalization. This is all about avoiding mild symptoms of COVID-19.

[PartyPosse]

Just now, Sticksboi05 said:

 

Agreed.

 

And this is part of the push back on boosters from many health experts. They will have minimal impact on hospitalizations - two doses of mRNA are still extremely protective vs. Delta when it comes to severe illness and hospitalization. This is all about avoiding mild symptoms of COVID-19.

In a weird way, minor symptoms without long-term effects is the most ideal. Nothing scarier than a boatload of people transmitting it unknowingly.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Personally, I’m all for a booster and will be ready to get one when the time comes.  I get that doses are better served to the unvaccinated, but it’s almost September now.  Anyone who wants one can get one.  I don’t expect some surge of folks to start lining up for shots now.  It is what it is, protect yourself the best you can.

[skinsmarydu]

I did giggle at your post, PP... 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

16 hours ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

I think the question is - from a broad perspective, do we get more out of moderately decreasing the odds of symptomatic disease, or getting more shots to people who have no protection here and abroad?

 

 

The WHO and many virologists are disappointed in the focus on boosters vs. getting initial vaccination to people at all costs. You could argue certainly that they can be done simultaneously but there's fair arguments on the other side too.

 

Vaccine efficacy against infection is incredibly hard to track with real-world data because of all the confounders i.e. how often are people in each group being tested, what is the level of natural immunity in the community, behavioral differences, is a positive test actually infectious virus vs. non-viable particles in your nose with a bunch of antibodies on them etc.

 

If the next 50 million U.S. doses went to unvaccinated it'd be significantly more impactful than boosters. But yes, you can also argue, well we can still do outreach to those folks on the fence and do this. I just foresee this being really messy and there's already talk of wow so I am now signing up to get three shots in less than a year.

 

I'm selfish, so I'll put Americans first and give out boosters and first/second doses here before sending doses overseas.  

[PartyPosse]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Personally, I’m all for a booster and will be ready to get one when the time comes.  I get that doses are better served to the unvaccinated, but it’s almost September now.  Anyone who wants one can get one.  I don’t expect some surge of folks to start lining up for shots now.  It is what it is, protect yourself the best you can.

If it's just in America, yeah, **** em. But if it's a question of sending doses to more underdeveloped countries in need, i'd rather go that route. I firmly believe in freedom of choice here, however I believe everyone who refuses a vaccination by choice should be asked to sign a waiver absolving hospitals and/or their insurance from prioritizing them and footing the bill. If they're so confident it's nothing to fear then they should have no problem agreeing to the conditions.

[86 Snyder]

I believe in freedom of choice, but if you choose wrong, I also believe you deserve public ridicule and for me to think you are a moron at best and a straight asshole at worst.

 

I also believe employers and business have the right to exclude you based on your choice.

 

ETA: Just to be clear Im referring to vaxxing in general here, NOT the booster.

Edited August 19, 2021 by 86 Snyder

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

If it's just in America, yeah, **** em. But if it's a question of sending doses to more underdeveloped countries in need, i'd rather go that route. I firmly believe in freedom of choice here, however I believe everyone who refuses a vaccination by choice should be asked to sign a waiver absolving hospitals and/or their insurance from prioritizing them and footing the bill. If they're so confident it's nothing to fear then they should have no problem agreeing to the conditions.

I don’t disagree with you at all as I mentioned something similar a few days back.  I believe anyone that chooses not to get the vaccine and gets covid, shouldn’t have access to hospital beds and ventilators.  Go see the quack doctors they love to share on social media for help.

[Larry]

As to "those shots would be better spent vaccinating the unvaccinated" .....

 

I think that would be a great argument, if we were discussing turning away people who wanted the shot, to give out third shots instead. 
 

But I don't think that's the case. I'm pretty sure that the only people who want a shot, but can't get one at a cost that's slightly higher than voting, is pretty much limited to children under 12. 

[Sticksboi05]

2 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I'm selfish, so I'll put Americans first and give out boosters and first/second doses here before sending doses overseas.  

 

Ignoring the rest of the world's desperate need for vaccines will come back to screw us. We get a booster and feel better now for a few months until the next variant from overseas comes that renders your booster useless.

 

And this is just COVID, at some point if we continue to ignore the underdeveloped nations, a worse pandemic will break out than this one, it's almost inevitable. We got lucky to go a century since 1918.

 

I hear you though, as far as first and second doses to unvaccinated Americans, we need to take care of them first. But booster doses to people under 65? Much more debatable.

[TheGoodBits]

If boosters increase immunity enough to drastically reduce the spread of covid this winter, it’s absolutely worth doing. Not to protect the voluntarily unvaccinated, screw them, but to protect the significant population of people who have compromised immune systems (the small minority of vaccinated people who are still ending up hospitalized and dying from covid). That’s basically what we do with the flu shot every year. Ridiculously small risk of people other than children and elderly dying of the flu, but containing the spread is crucial to protecting the population that can’t get vaccinated (or won’t have the vaccine be effective). 

Edited August 19, 2021 by skinsfan_1215

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

If boosters increase immunity enough to drastically reduce the spread of covid this winter, it’s absolutely worth doing. Not to protect the voluntarily unvaccinated, screw them, but to protect the significant population of people who have compromised immune systems (the small minority of vaccinated people who are still ending up hospitalized and dying from covid). That’s basically what we do with the flu shot every year. Ridiculously small risk of people other than children and elderly dying of the flu, but containing the spread is crucial to protecting the population that can’t get vaccinated (or won’t have the vaccine be effective). 

And kids under 12.  

 

Sent my older 2 back to school (in Texas) today, still trying to figure out what to do with the youngest.  With no mask mandate, ICU beds filling up, and an almost certain outbreak coming among kids, I’m starting to have to wonder about things like - should we mask around my youngest?  Not be in the same room with him?  Insane questions to have to address all because our Governor is an idiot (and/or unscrupulous) and most of the parents/teachers apparently share his attitude.  Needless to say, I’m ****ing pissed.

[tshile]

4 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I'm selfish, so I'll put Americans first and give out boosters and first/second doses here before sending doses overseas.  

I understand that there is a point at which giving the vaccine to other countries is better than the N-th booster for us. I get it. And I’m capable of understanding an argument that actually puts some numbers behind it and makes a lead attempt and explaining where the line is. 
 

I am vehemently against the thought that at all times it is better to give them to the rest of the unvaccinated world over any booster for us. 
 

for example - at any time we could completely shut down our borders such that the rest of the world doesn’t matter and only worry about ourselves (not saying we should do that either)

 

but the tug on heart strings “vaccine equality” stuff does absolutely nothing for me. 
 

show me some numbers make a case and there’s a solid chance I’ll agree with you where that line is. 
 

otherwise…

Edited August 19, 2021 by tshile

[TheDoyler23]

I just learned that a family member who was very resistant got the jab this week. So there may be some hope in turning some minds.

[just654]

1 hour ago, TheDoyler23 said:

I just learned that a family member who was very resistant got the jab this week. So there may be some hope in turning some minds.

I wonder if the mandates that are starting roll in helped in convincing them. 

[TheGoodBits]

1 hour ago, TheDoyler23 said:

I just learned that a family member who was very resistant got the jab this week. So there may be some hope in turning some minds.

My mother-in-law’s husband is the sole holdout amongst our immediate family at this point… nervous as hell for him. Their 10 year old starts school in a couple weeks and it is only a matter of time until he brings it home. 

[Sticksboi05]

5 hours ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

If boosters increase immunity enough to drastically reduce the spread of covid this winter, it’s absolutely worth doing. Not to protect the voluntarily unvaccinated, screw them, but to protect the significant population of people who have compromised immune systems (the small minority of vaccinated people who are still ending up hospitalized and dying from covid). That’s basically what we do with the flu shot every year. Ridiculously small risk of people other than children and elderly dying of the flu, but containing the spread is crucial to protecting the population that can’t get vaccinated (or won’t have the vaccine be effective). 

 

There'd be way more reduction in community spread getting the unvaccinated their doses vs. adding on top of the 50% of Americans already vaccinated. If we could get to 70-80 percent, that'd be better than 3 dose 50%

[TheGoodBits]

28 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

There'd be way more reduction in community spread getting the unvaccinated their doses vs. adding on top of the 50% of Americans already vaccinated. If we could get to 70-80 percent, that'd be better than 3 dose 50%

Sure, but good luck with the currently unvaccinated.