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A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

JSSkinz

By JSSkinz
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TK
Message added by TK,

Pay Attention Knuckleheads

 

 

Has your team support wained due to ownership or can you see past it?  

229 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you attend a game and support the team while Dan Snyder is the owner of the team, regardless of success?

    • Yes
      47
    • No
      106
    • I would start attending games if Dan was no longer the owner of the team.
      77

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Zim489

Zim489

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, profusion said:

Historically, I don't think GMs got fired as quickly as they do now. They had longer to implement their plans and hire coaches etc. Now, they're just like coaches where they get three years or less to show progress or they're out. Thus, it's hard to make it all line up in a single offseason. Tough to rebuild an entire football organization from scratch in a couple months.

 

There's no possibility of success in Washington unless and until Snyder hires an actual football organization manager to run the team completely without Dan's interference or involvement. He's never done that, and I think at this point it's unlikely he ever will. It'll either be lackeys like Vinny/Bruce or "savior coaches" like Gibbs, Shanahan and Rivera. The pattern is well-established.

I get the feeling that Dan can sell a coach to a fan base when things arent going well because you see his face multiple times a week where with a GM you cant. I had a buddy who worked in the FO years ago. His understanding was Snyder is very aware of the criticism about him and is motivated to make changes when fans revolt. The believe is that Snyder is that as long as he makes a big move every spring and makes the playoffs every once in a while enough fans will buy into what Dan is selling. It plays into the reasoning of why it seems theres very little cohesive plans from year to year to year. It was said in this thread a couple pages ago by I think Jumbo that this franchise seems deathly afraid of taking steps backward in a year if it means taking 2 steps the following. 

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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Posted
3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

And maybe they knew Gettleman was moving on when they announced Judge and Daniels are staying. I hope so, Giants are a non-issue while those two are there. 

 

That's kindof where the rumor came from.  It's unlikely the Mara's would saddle a new GM with a coach and QB they didn't pick.  So the thought was they already knew who the GM was going to be, it was in-house, and before they made the commitment, they knew what they were doing.

 

Of course, Dan and Vinny hired coordinators before they hired a HC, and then backed into a HC once.  So, it's more than possible NY is just jacked up and they're looking for a new GM who will retain Judge and Jones for one more year of evaluation and then make changes.

 

I know teams don't typically like firing coaches after 2 years.  That's a lot of money to pay out to a fired coach, so getting that third year is probably what the Mara's want.  

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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Posted

So, there has been a lot of criticism of Ron the GM, and I think some of it is definitely earned and deserved.  But I wanted to go back and take a look at the mess he inherited, and see what moves they've made since he's been here, and where there are changes.   This is going to be a little long. NOTE: when I started this thought exercise, I had no idea where it was going to lead me.  All of the player info is from Pro Football Reference. Some of their position alignment is wonky, so I corrected some where I knew they were wrong.   But probably not all. 

 

QB: 

2019: Keenum/McCoy/Haskins

2021: Fitz/TH/Allen

Was there Improvement? Probably Yes and There should have been more. I think Fitz would have been significant improvement over any QB from 2019. (And better than TH, for that matter) Good enough/long term answer? No.  But he was the plan at QB1, and he was injured in the first half of the first game. TH is probably at least as good as Keenum/McCoy/Haskins, if not better than all 3. This was kindof bad luck.

 

RB: 

2019: AP/Guice/CT (others)

2021: Gibson/McKissic/Patterson

Was there Improvement? Yes.  I think the 2021 group is better than the 2019 group.  Especially with AP's age and CT's durability. I still think they need to do more here and they don't use Gibson correctly, but it's a better group overall.  

 

WR:

2019: Terry McLaurin/Paul Richardson/Steve Sims/Trey Quinn/Kevlin Harmon/Cam Sims

2021: Terry McLaurin/Curtis Samuel/Hump/Milne/D. Brown/Carter/Cam Sims

Was there Improvement? There should have been.  I like the 2021 group better, but Samuels being hurt all year really was damaging.  I think Hump/Milne > Quinn.  I think Terry/Samuel/Hump with some contribution from Brown would have been a good group. But Samuels being hurt really changed he entire dynamics of it.  This was kindof bad luck.

 

TE:

2019: Sprinkle/Vernon Davis/Hentges/Holtz/Cunningham

2021: Thomas/RSJ/Bates/Reyes

Was there Improvement? YES. Even when you consider Thomas missed most of the year, RSJ/Bates were better than anything they had in 2019.  VDavis I think missed more than half the year also with a concussion, but I could be making that up.  

 

OL: (remember that Trent Williams was on the roster but sat out the entire year because he hated Bruce.)

(Left to right as far as starters): Penn, Flowers, Rouiller, Scherff, Moses.  They also had Wes Martin, Timon Parris, Geron Christian and Tony Bergstrum.

(Left to right as far as starters): Leno, Flowers, Rouiller, Scherff, Cosmi.  Backups were Lucas, Schweitzer, Charles, Larsen and Ismael

Was there Improvement? YES.  Specifically the depth.   I think Leno was better than a 38 year old Penn.  Cosmi as a rookie vs. Moses might be a push, but I like Cosmi.  I think where they definitely improved was the depth.  Lucas is a great backup swing tackle, and Schweitzer was a great interior backup.  They also had Larsen who was a good backup center.  The problem is they lost Rouiller, Larsen and Schweitzer, so they were on their 4th string center.  And their third string interior guy, Charles, had to play a lot at both guard positions and tackle at times because Lucas also missed a couple games, and again, Schweitzer was out. 

 

But the fact the line didn't totally implode with all the missing pieces I think is a testament to the depth they brought in.  

 

Now to the defense: ** Remember we played a base 3-4, so Sweat and Kerrigan were technically OLB. 

DE: 

2019: Naoh Spence/Chris Odom/Ryan Bee (FWIW, I have no memory of any of these guys, but they are the only DEs listed I can find. 

2021: Young, Sweat, Wise, Smith-Williams, Toney, Toohill, Rotimi

Was there Improvement? YES. I think this is a tough comparison because of the switch to a 4-3.  But even though there were disappointing results, I think this group is better than the 2019 group.

 

DT:

2019: Allen/Settle/Payne/Ioannidis

2021: Allen/Settle/Payne/Ioannidis

Was there Improvement? PUSH.  It was the same guys.  

 

LB: (I'm just doing this as a group)

2019: Kerigan/Sweat/Philips/Orchard/Anderson/Bostic/Shaun Deon Hamilton/McKinzy/Holcomb

2021: Holcomb/Bostic/Davis/Collins**/Mayo

Was there Improvement? NO.  It's tough to compare here also, but they went in without a real plan at MLB except for Bostic, and that blew up in their faces.  

 

CB:

2019:

Josh Norman/Quinton Dunbar/Kayvon Webster/Simeon Thomas/Greg Stroman/Coty Sensabaugh/Jimmy Moreland/Fabian Moreau/Danny Johnson/Dee Delaney/Aaron Colvin/Breon Borders

2021: William Jackson III/Kendall Fuller/Darryl Roberts/Bobby McCain/Danny Johnson/Corn Elder/St.Juice

Was there Improvement? Yes.  I think the 2021 group is better than the 2019 group.  There were some holdovers.  I think the real thing that happened in the secondary was they blew up the chemistry when they tried to play Collins at Safety and WJIII as a zone corner, and they screwed with Fuller moving him around trying to play St. Juice.  But I think the talent is better.  They need to use it better.  

 

Safety:

 

2019:Deshazor Everett/Montae Nicholson/Josh Harvey-Clemons/Landon Collins/Maurice Smith/Jeremy Reaves/Kenny Ladler/Troy Apke

2021: Bobby McCain/Danny Johnson/Kendall Fuller/Corn Elder/Jeremy Reaves/Camaron Cheeseman/Darrick Forrest/Kamren Curl/Troy Apke

Was there Improvement? Yes. Mostly because of Kurl  McCain is an upgrade as well to anything they had previously also.  I did not list Collins as a safety, I listed him as a LB, because that's really where he played and played well.  

 

So, please nitpick away. I think there are a few takeaways which are interesting:

 

- As you would expect, the biggest impact players were brought here before Ron got here, since he's only going into year three: Allen, Payne, McLaurin, Ioannidis, Scherff, Rouiller and a few others I would identify.  That's to be expected. because they are from drafts 3-5 years ago and entering their prime.  

- The best acquisitions by Ron's group have been the second tier guys: Thomas, McKissic, Lucas, Leno, trading for Flowers, RSJ and a few of the lower draft picks.  The 3 big FA pickups haven't worked out with Fitz, Samuel and WJIII.  Though 2 because of injury.  

- They really lost a lot of pieces for the entire year who were supposed to be top-5-10 contributors on the team.  That's unfortunate.  Fitz, Samuel, Thomas, McKissic were all out a ton, and that really hurt them offensively.  

 

I think they have a better roster now than they did in 2019.  A LOT rests on if the defense just had a bad year, and they are a player or two away from taking a gigantic step forward.  A lot rests on how Chase Young and Montez Sweat return from extremely dissapointing seasons.  Both from a mental and physical perspective. 


And of course, the big question, who's going to play QB.  It can't be TH.  So, they have to have somebody else who can play, that's going to be the big question mark going into the off-season.  

 

But I do think the roster is better and deeper than it was when Ron took over. 

 

 

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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Posted

I think the entire defensive side of the coaching staff gets a fail grade this year.  And possibly toss in the scouting/talent evaluating side as well.

 

The mess they created with Fuller, St. Juice, WJIII, Collins, Kurl and others in the back end was a fireable offense.  Not playing Kurl as a starting SS early in the season was ludicrous.  Signing a Man safety to play Zone was ludicrous.  Not adjusting to make it easier was ludicrous.  Screwing with Fuller's head moving him inside, then outside, then inside again was nuts.

 

Drafting Jamin Davis to be a MLB, then figuring out he wasn't one, then not having a plan for MLB was awful.  

 

Taking 8 games to realize Collins can't cover a present with wrapping paper was amazing.

 

Not being able to get the DL on the same page was an epic fail.

 

I like Ron.  I'm not a huge fan of Jack.  I don't really know the position coaches.  

 

But they had the makings of a good defense and they broke it for no reason.  

 

I would have hired Fangio or Zimmer yesterday to replace Jack.  

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Zim489

Zim489

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Posted

The most egregious is the LB spot. Anyone with half a brain who followed the team the past 2 years could have told them a single LB was not enough to fix the position. Especially a raw one. I think it goes back to Ron being too old school. They are a decent to pretty good run stopping team. Unfortunately you dont win games any more that way. Hell you dont win with defense outright anymore. Its all about slowing teams as much as you can produce turnovers. 

 

The most puzzling is the corners. Last year we played a good amount of man coverage with a zone CB in Darby. Then you get rid of Darby and bring in a man CB in Jackson who says yesterday they "had him doing things he had never done before" while playing a bunch of zone. Its like the past 20 years were just extended with Ron. It makes no sense 

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Dissident2

Dissident2

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

"Watered with tears from actual WFT fans!"

 

You beat me to posting this abomination. "Grown in Glory" relating to FedEx Field. They are trolling us. They have to be. Unreal, lol. Should be "Grown in a literal and metaphorical dungheap that reeks of failure."

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tomwvr

tomwvr

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Posted
4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That's kindof where the rumor came from.  It's unlikely the Mara's would saddle a new GM with a coach and QB they didn't pick.  So the thought was they already knew who the GM was going to be, it was in-house, and before they made the commitment, they knew what they were doing.

 

Of course, Dan and Vinny hired coordinators before they hired a HC, and then backed into a HC once.  So, it's more than possible NY is just jacked up and they're looking for a new GM who will retain Judge and Jones for one more year of evaluation and then make changes.

 

I know teams don't typically like firing coaches after 2 years.  That's a lot of money to pay out to a fired coach, so getting that third year is probably what the Mara's want.  

Thank god this will ensure we are not the worst in the nfc east

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Chris 44

Chris 44

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

 

You beat me to posting this abomination. "Grown in Glory" relating to FedEx Field. They are trolling us. They have to be. Unreal, lol. Should be "Grown in a literal and metaphorical dungheap that reeks of failure."

Everyone complaining all this time about the broken lavatory pipes didn't realize it was in fact an irrigation system. Dont you feel foolish now?

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Rufus T Firefly

Rufus T Firefly

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

And maybe they knew Gettleman was moving on when they announced Judge and Daniels are staying. I hope so, Giants are a non-issue while those two are there. 

 

I was going to point out that they never "announced" that, but now he's been officially fired anyway.

Edited by Rufus T Firefly
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Wildbunny

Wildbunny

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Posted
1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think the entire defensive side of the coaching staff gets a fail grade this year.  And possibly toss in the scouting/talent evaluating side as well.

 

The mess they created with Fuller, St. Juice, WJIII, Collins, Kurl and others in the back end was a fireable offense.  Not playing Kurl as a starting SS early in the season was ludicrous.  Signing a Man safety to play Zone was ludicrous.  Not adjusting to make it easier was ludicrous.  Screwing with Fuller's head moving him inside, then outside, then inside again was nuts.

 

Drafting Jamin Davis to be a MLB, then figuring out he wasn't one, then not having a plan for MLB was awful.  

 

Taking 8 games to realize Collins can't cover a present with wrapping paper was amazing.

 

Not being able to get the DL on the same page was an epic fail.

 

I like Ron.  I'm not a huge fan of Jack.  I don't really know the position coaches.  

 

But they had the makings of a good defense and they broke it for no reason.  

 

I would have hired Fangio or Zimmer yesterday to replace Jack.  

That defensive coaching side is really having me scratching my head.

 

I still don't get how Jack Del Rio and Ron Rivera, who were two good LB in their prime have been able to come over this year with that kind of LB corp. I really don't get it.

 

Sam Mills could get the axe IMHO, getting those results with those players is unacceptable. They were abysmal on the end of the line. It's probably on the players, but at one point if they don't listen, just bench them and put somebody else so they get the message.

 

And well that secondary was an absolute mess for 8 too many games... I guess that Collins might have been tough to be told that he wasn't good at Safety, but damn. do your job as a coach and bench guys so they get the message here.

 

But also, you have WJ3, that is asked to do stuff he's never done before... Then you wonder you went after him...

 

So yeah that's quitte puzzling, especially with somebody like Rivera that has a huge defensive background in his life and comes out of the gate with that kind of Defense?

 

Damn...

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Conn

Conn

Posted
Posted (edited)

It’s infuriating that no matter who is signing the players or who is coaching or who else is on the roster, forever and ever we CONTINUE for literal decades to pay big money to guys who are good at one thing and then ask them to do something completely different once they get here. Feigning surprise when it doesn’t work well. Over and over and over. It’s almost enough, completely on it’s own, to make me be done with Rivera because it’s so ****ing stupid and even a half-caring fan of middling intelligence can tell you it’s a bad idea. Yet somehow the 5-6 franchises in the entire NFL who, year after year, put guys in a position to succeed and build their schemes and play calls around the talent they have on the roster continue to dominate everyone else. No surprise those are also the teams that successfully develop franchise QB’s over and over again—being good at developing and utilizing players gives you good players and breeds organizational stability, which feeds back into continuing to be good at developing and utilizing players, and the cycle continues while everyone else in the league trips over each others’ dicks.
 

The ****ing arrogance and ignorance on display in this league is infuriating and having to watch it from my team basically my entire life sucks the fun out of the sport. Watching Rivera and his gang of good ol’ boy hires do it as well is sending me towards a breaking point even before considering Snyder, the name change, or anything else. It feels like they waste my Sunday afternoon before the team even steps on the ****ing field bc they handicap themselves before they ever arrive at the stadium, in completely predictable, foreseeable, and avoidable ways. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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Ball Security

Ball Security

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think the entire defensive side of the coaching staff gets a fail grade this year.  And possibly toss in the scouting/talent evaluating side as well.

 

The mess they created with Fuller, St. Juice, WJIII, Collins, Kurl and others in the back end was a fireable offense.  Not playing Kurl as a starting SS early in the season was ludicrous.  Signing a Man safety to play Zone was ludicrous.  Not adjusting to make it easier was ludicrous.  Screwing with Fuller's head moving him inside, then outside, then inside again was nuts.

 

Drafting Jamin Davis to be a MLB, then figuring out he wasn't one, then not having a plan for MLB was awful.  

 

Taking 8 games to realize Collins can't cover a present with wrapping paper was amazing.

 

Not being able to get the DL on the same page was an epic fail.

 

I like Ron.  I'm not a huge fan of Jack.  I don't really know the position coaches.  

 

But they had the makings of a good defense and they broke it for no reason.  

 

I would have hired Fangio or Zimmer yesterday to replace Jack.  

I agree that the defense was a failure this year.  I don’t like Del Rio and wouldn’t mind him gone.  I hate the square peg/round hole we seem to do with big acquisitions.  Switching to the 3-4 with Haynesworth and Kerrigan (Orakpo?).  Josh Norman.  Collins. Billy Jackson 3-sticks.  However, Jackson started to play better as the season went on and he admits he was starting to get it.  And has a plan for the offseason.  So with a little continuity from this year to next (bring back McCain, let Curl grow as SS), I wouldn’t be surprised if we see big improvements out of the defense.  So I don’t hate them bringing JDR back.  Now if it doesn’t work in 2022, cut ties with the entire regime.

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drowland

drowland

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, SAli457180 said:

Yeah, I thought the clown show would continue, but the Vagaints came to their senses

 

Those back to back QB sneaks were Judge's "swinging gate" moment.  That's when Mara realized they had the a-hole version of Jim Zorn.

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