A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Thinking Skins]

9 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

You are talking about a Mike Shanahan that was only sort of in demand.  Ron was the hottest coach on the market pretty much.   We couldn’t even get a GM or president because we had to rush to get him.  Again Ron can walk today and he’d have a bunch of offers.  He just navigated a entire FO shift, harassment scandal, a rogue QB, cancer, and reached the playoffs his first year.   Soon as it gets leaked that Dan tried to take over it would not only make Ron look like he got a raw deal but no one would want to join the Wash front office.  You might as well fold the franchise.  Unless they come to some big deal for him not to reveal what happened so he would get paid anyway and still find tons of offers.  Ron doesn’t need Dan.  Dan needs Ron. 

THis sounds great in theory until Ron is without a job. Look at Doug Peterson and what he's going through. He's not even getting interviews. Dude has a SB Victory (something Ron doesn't have). He did it with a backup QB. He did it against the great Tom Brady. But what happened? The owner wanted to butt in. The owner wanted to pick the QB. The owner had already picked his offensive coordinator and wanted to pick his defensive coordinator. 

 

Now Peterson is in a different note because he said no to the owner and was fired. But Dan isn't saying to do this or I'll fire you. He's saying do this and if you don't like it, you'll have to quit. So what happens is that we wind up employing coaches who don't want to coach here and are just collecting a paycheck. I'm not saying that Ron will do this. What you're saying about Ron may ultimately be true and he may just walk away and say that its not what he signed up for. But just know that once Ron quits or is fired, Dan will hire somebody else and stories will leak about Ron (like they did about Scot, Bruce, Gruden, and everybody but Gibbs) to try to make it Ron's fault and he'll hire a new "the guy" and stories will spread about how he's a changed man and was young and naive before, how they should have never sold the team to such a young guy, etc (I remember these stories every time he wants a new image) and then he'll try to excite the fan base with somebody or some attractive new carrot and we'll fall for it. 

[goskins10]

11 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

I want to emphasize this

 

DAN NEEDS RON.  RON DOES NOT NEED DAN.  
 

If Dan screws with Ron or causes him to walk out no respectable FO person will ever step foot in this organization again.  Players will leave.  FO will leave.  The franchise might as well fold at that point unless the NFL owners step in because the Wash organization will collapse. 

 

I don't think anyone is denying that Dan needs Ron much more than Ron needs Dan - in fact I am pretty sure most if not all would agree.

 

However, many of us do not believe Dan is self aware enough to realize that. At some point he will get too comfortable and decide he knows more than ROn. And yes, Ron will survive, in fact will likely flourish.  And we will be stuck with whatever leftover from scrap heap POS coach Dan could get to come work here. 

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I don't think you give Dan enough credit. The only thing that will stop Dan is other stupid owners/GMs who say I'm not going to abuse you like that. Was it Marvin Lewis who didn't want to do Dan badly by taking 2 firsts from him for a player? I know it was the Jets who drafted Sanchez before we could, so we wound up taking Orakpo. Unfortunately I think Dan will have his ideas and where they come from is a mystery. The only certainty is that they'll be bad ideas. He's like Lucky from Goodfellas, or like Opposite George on Seinfeld. Whatever he bets on, we need to not do. But its Dan's team so the most Ron can do is try to placate him but ultimately if Dan wants to do X and no matter how bad X is, there is only so much that Ron can say before Dan is saying "we're doing X" like he said "we're drafting Haskins". 

 

It doesn't matter that Smith who is the best draft guy we've had under Snyder's tenure was against it. It only matters that Dan wanted it and Dan is not used to hearing no, and although he heard it here, it was insignificant because we still got Haskins. 

 

Not sure where you are going with i am not giving Dan enough credit.  You seem to be lecturing me about how bad Dan could be?   You should know I get it.   I've railed for a long time about Dan and the rotten culture he brought.   My rants on the FO thread weren't just about Bruce.  Plenty were directed at Dan.   And I said a zillion times Dan is always the top problem. 

 

I am surprised of all people that you are lecturing me on the subject considering you were one of the most defiant people on that previous FO thread about defending the status quo.  I recall people on that thread flat out making fun of the Dolphins and Browns years ago I gather because some of us (including me) cited them as examples of how to rebuild a team.  That thread got nasty.  I can go on and on.   But as I've told you before you made your points and debated with class.  So I appreciate that.   And its really part of the reason why i was stubborn with you on the Bruce stuff and that was because you came off so much classier than he does. 

 

I likened the Dan/Bruce combination as the Emperor and Darth Vadar.  You seemed to be a big fan of Darth Vadar and downplayed or refused to believe the sleaze and incompetence he was associated with that came from many corners.  But to your credit you weren't a fan of the Emperor.  

 

And the reason why at times I've given you are a hard time about your tough criticisms of Rivera is this:  to stick to my Star Wars theme, Rivera is Luke.  Maybe he doesn't win here but he clearly is a good guy.    In my view, you actively rooted for Vadar and gave him all the slack in the world.  Yet, had a hard time giving that same slack to Luke.     For a dude that comes off like a nice guy, it just seemed so incongruent to give Vadar all the slack in the world and at the same time was cynical as heck about Luke.  Obviously, you don't see it that way.  But that's how I see it hence I challenge you on that front.  😀

 

Let's take your Haskins example you give.  In my view, you fell under Dan's spell on that front.  I certainly didn't.  You were borderline irate that Rivera didn't ride with Haskins and felt he deserved all the patience in the world.  Now you are railing about Dan's involvement in it.  But at the time, I don't recall you bringing up Dan as an issue with how Haskins was handled.  I gathered then you thought it was irrelevant.  To me is was very relevant, Rivera and or Kyle Smith shouldn't feel pressured to cultivate any prospect that was forced on them by Dan -- especially if they had a predisposition that said prospect doesn't have what it takes.  

 

So sticking to my Star Wars theme, yep I think Luke has a better shot to mitigate the Emperor versus Vadar who just mostly feeds his worst instincts.  And I get you are on baord with Rivera now but you flat out told me in a post earlier in the season that you didn't trust Rivera or something like that.   But yeah I am just as cynical as you are about the Emperor.  No doubt he likely ends up ruining this in some fashion or form.  But to me I am more optimistic with Luke versus Vadar trying to tame the beast.  

 

I am only dredging up the past to remind you that I hated the status quo under the previous adminstration.  You defended it.   So i am having a hard time placing where you are now.  Was it better before?  This might be better now but not good enough?  It doesn't matter what we do, anything we do will fail?  I get it if its the later point but my only counter is I think you can come up with a way to mitigate the damage.   And sadly i think that's the best we can do.  

 

If anything I think my take on Dan is one of the most cynical positions here.  I am basically saying you can't run an organization the normal way with him -- you got to treat him like he's a major headcase.  So I am delving into Abnormal Psychology not so much straight Social Psychology. 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Commander -JB-]

9 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

THis sounds great in theory until Ron is without a job. Look at Doug Peterson and what he's going through. He's not even getting interviews. Dude has a SB Victory (something Ron doesn't have). He did it with a backup QB. He did it against the great Tom Brady. But what happened? The owner wanted to butt in. The owner wanted to pick the QB. The owner had already picked his offensive coordinator and wanted to pick his defensive coordinator. 

 

Now Peterson is in a different note because he said no to the owner and was fired. But Dan isn't saying to do this or I'll fire you. He's saying do this and if you don't like it, you'll have to quit. So what happens is that we wind up employing coaches who don't want to coach here and are just collecting a paycheck. I'm not saying that Ron will do this. What you're saying about Ron may ultimately be true and he may just walk away and say that its not what he signed up for. But just know that once Ron quits or is fired, Dan will hire somebody else and stories will leak about Ron (like they did about Scot, Bruce, Gruden, and everybody but Gibbs) to try to make it Ron's fault and he'll hire a new "the guy" and stories will spread about how he's a changed man and was young and naive before, how they should have never sold the team to such a young guy, etc (I remember these stories every time he wants a new image) and then he'll try to excite the fan base with somebody or some attractive new carrot and we'll fall for it. 

Scot is an alcoholic.  That is fact.  Bruce Allen was a politician in a cheap suit playing puppet, Jay Gruden was always at the bar at the Charles Town Casino in seasons in which he was losing games more than he won.  I’m not defending Dan Snyder.  In fact it’s his negligence & sheer stupidity that ever even allowed those guys in the door.  Jay Gruden is now the OC of a 1-15 team.  Nowhere near HC level coordinator.  Scot will never work again in the same capacity (and his drafts sucked), and Bruce will never work again.  Ron Rivera is a man of integrity.  Just like Marty was.  Let’s just hope Dan Snyder has learned a little bit about handling a man of honor 20 years later

[TD_washingtonredskins]

16 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I specifically mean there isn't going to be a historically bad defense or something like that pop up next year. I just don't see it, Rivera has a different kind of structure in the team. Our offense won't be worse than it was this year and our defense is definitely going to be  better (unless there is some insane level of injuries) 

 

Now when you bring up "under snyder" of course he could completely decide to **** things up but I don't see that happening because  Rivera wouldn't stand for that, he would bounce. So as long as it is under Riveras tenure this team is at its baseline imo, only up from here. 

 

OK, I guess we will see. I just believe that many of the playoff seasons under Snyder left fans with that same sense of excitement and optimism. 

[Thinking Skins]

I have been a Dan fan since he initially bought the team and had the free agent spending spree. Since then, its been bad decision after bad decision. For a long time I was simple minded. I thought "all we need is a GM" and I was elated that we got Bruce. His draft and history didn't matter as much as the idea that he'd be able to keep Dan out of the decision making. Even when he was here we heard stories of Dan being involved, but I didn't listen. Now that he's gone we are hearing even more. Part of the naive side of me as a fan is to root for the players because even scouts and coaches make mistakes. But while I was a fan of Bruce I have always been a fan of the draft more than anything else in terms of team building and I thought Bruce best used that resource (even if we weren't drafting all pros the fact that we had gone from having 4-5 picks per draft before Bruce to 8-10 picks per draft after Bruce was an improvement. 

 

I still root for Haskins and think he has the talents to make it in the league, but thats different from how he got here. If the coach doesn't want him, and the scouts don't want him, then why is he here? But Haskins isn't my point. My point is that employees have no pushback against Snyder. There is no out in their contract that says "if a decision is ever made that I do not approve of, then I can quit and get full pay for the remainder of this contract" so they're forced to simply deal with Dan's bad decisions. I could live with the signing of McGee and McClain if it meant that Dan wasn't going to be saying who we draft or buddying up with players (saying who gets to take off practice, who gets to not have bad plays seen, etc), especially if we were getting guys like Lanier and Ioannidis and Galette. 

 

I actually thought that Snyder was under control and we had a chance of building something. Heck I still hope so - that's what being a fan is about. But I see how naive it was, especially with you and others saying basically "just wait". And I'm saying the same thing now. Not that Ron's not a great guy or a great coach, but that ultimately Snyder will return to form and that's when we will see how these two interact. Its like a new relationship. Everything's fine on the first few dates and you may get married without ever having a fight. But when you have that first fight, what happens? Can you argue with each other and come to a resolution or does one side just sit in the corner and pout until they get their way? Snyder is that spouse that sits in the corner and dares you to divorce because he knows that he signed the prenub and if you divorce you get nothing. So once he shows his true colors (and he will) its an unhappy marriage. I hope it doesn't happen, but I'm done giving Dan the benefit of the doubt and saying Ron has all the power because Ron doesn't. Ron is Dan's employee and as long as Dan is in this, he'll force that fight.

 

We'll see how Ron responds. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Wright is a rock star.  Super bright, super likeable.  Heck Jason Reid is perhaps the most cynical reporter there is about Dan. 

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

21 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

On the defensive coordinator side, since 1980, the answer is Richie Pettibone, and there isn't a second place.  You skip the next 5 spots to get to Gregg Williams.  Then you throw out the rest of the candidates until JDR.  I'm not sure what happened before 1980 as far as who was a great DC.  But after 1980, we've had 3 good DCs: Pettibone (who was phenomenal), Gregg Williams and JDR.  Blache, Haz, Barry and Manusky are the others. Blache was "ok." The rest were straight up awful.  

Not sure how you can leave out Marvin Lewis and Kurt Schottenheimer. I'd also include Ray Rhodes in this. All three of those defenses were early in the Snyder tenure but were a large part of why we had a competivite team at all under Marty and Spurrier. Heck even Rhodes is part of what made Norv legit because before that we had a horrible Mike Nolan. 

[El Mexican]

I had no idea who Wright was before yesterday.

 

Can't hurt to bring in some new faces here (?)

[XxSpearheadxX]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

OK, I guess we will see. I just believe that many of the playoff seasons under Snyder left fans with that same sense of excitement and optimism. 

You aren't wrong about past seasons, we would be irresponsible not to feel wary. All I'm saying is that if Snyder does something Rivera will leave. So then we will know he did something. Also he is under massive pressure from the minority owners like never before. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by XxSpearheadxX

[Andre The Giant]

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

You aren't wrong about past seasons, we would be irresponsible not to feel wary. All I'm saying is that if Snyder does something Rivera will leave. So then we will know he did something. Also he is under massive pressure from the minority owners like never before. 

 

I don't know...there are a lot of assumptions up there!

 

First of all, Snyder "doing something" isn't the only reason this team might not get better next year. And I think it's naïve to believe Rivera would walk away from 4 years of his salary unless something absolutely crazy happened. Take a look at Rivera's history too, his win totals year-over-year don't really show that he tends to build on past seasons and incrementally improve. He had win totals of 6, 7, 12, 7, 15, 6, 11, and 7 over his full seasons in Carolina. I guess you could argue that 2020 was a "down" year for him here. But that doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this team will ascend and stick around for any length of time. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I actually thought that Snyder was under control and we had a chance of building something. Heck I still hope so - that's what being a fan is about. But I see how naive it was, especially with you and others saying basically "just wait". And I'm saying the same thing now. Not that Ron's not a great guy or a great coach, but that ultimately Snyder will return to form and that's when we will see how these two interact. Its like a new relationship. Everything's fine on the first few dates and you may get married without ever having a fight. But when you have that first fight, what happens? 

 

Agree.  Like most crazy high strung people, I'd gather Dan's crazy comes out under stress.  I've said this before and Loverro loves saying this a lot -- Dan is like Steinbrenner.  The one time Steinbrenner let a manager do his job was Torre who was left alone because he had early success.  Our coaches sadly have not had early success.  Rivera relatively speaking did.  So maybe that keeps Dan in the cage.  But no I am not optimistic about it.  But will see.  I do think Jason Wright is a superstar and Rivera is a really good coach with a great personality.  If they add a good GM into the mix maybe that combination helps?

[Andre The Giant]

Definitely worth a listen.  There’s a lot here. JP is on it. 

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

Definitely worth a listen.  There’s a lot here. JP is on it. 

Would you be kind enough to summarize for us, ATG?   I have satellite service which restricts my bandwidth.  It's be appreciated. 

[joeken24]

WFT leading the way. Lets see what the other coach introduction sound like. Lots going on this off season. But the term coach centric may be catching in this copy cat league.

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by joeken24

[Skinsinparadise]

I listened to Finlay's podcast, also Keim and Standig.

 

Finlay is guessing it will be Cowden.  Keim and Standig Mayhew.  None seem to suggest its based on team sources but they are making educated guesses.

 

Cowden's niche is picking players and he supposedly loves to interact with players in practice -- tosses the ball with them, etc.  

 

Mayhew is the more experienced do it all guy.  Keim and Standig think Rivera might value that experience.

 

 

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I listened to Finlay's podcast, also Keim and Standig.

 

Finlay is guessing it will be Cowden.  Keim and Standig Mayhew.  None seem to suggest its based on team sources but they are making educated guesses.

 

Cowden's niche is picking players and he supposedly loves to interact with players in practice -- tosses the ball with them, etc.  

 

Mayhew is the more experienced do it all guy.  Keim and Standig think Rivera might value that experience.

 

 

Thanks SIP.  I think it will be Cowden because of his prior relationship with Cowden and Cowden was his 1st interview.  Might mean something; might mean nothing. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Thanks SIP.  I think it will be Cowden because of his prior relationship with Cowden and Cowden was his 1st interview.  Might mean something; might mean nothing. 

 

Based on profile and reputation, Cowden is the one I am rooting for.

[Thinking Skins]

I like Mayhew and his story. He went to law school with a friend of mine. 

 

That said, i just want somebody who is great at lower round picks and that's not Mayhew. Maybe he was limited in Detroit but I haven't seen it from him. I haven't studied the other guys enough but i want to hit on 60% of the picks in rounds 4 through 7. I don't mean just making a roster but guys who actually get playing time. I was giving SDH all this credit for being a great pick but he never amounted to anything here. I want more players who actually play. 

[Andre The Giant]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Would you be kind enough to summarize for us, ATG?   I have satellite service which restricts my bandwidth.  It's be appreciated. 

Only thing I’d add to SIP’s summary of JP’s pod is that JP thinks Kyle Smith is gone.

 

One more bit of info from JLC...

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Andre The Giant

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RWJ]

26 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

Only thing I’d add to SIP’s summary of JP’s pod is that JP thinks Kyle Smith is gone.

 

One more bit of info from JLC...

 

Hate to see Smith go.  Really like him and will follow him wherever he land because I think he will be McVay 2.0, if you get what I am saying.   Stokes and not including Smith is disrespectful to me.  A slap in the face.  All have ties to Carolina.  In the end I am believing more and more Cowden is the pick.  I only believe 1/2 of what JLC says if that anyway.  LOL

[Skinsinparadise]

from the last time they hired him

 

https://www.washingtonfootball.com/news/washington-names-eric-stokes-as-director-of-pro-scouting-and-don-warren-as-senio

 

LOUDOUN COUNTY, Va. – Washington announced today that they have named Eric Stokes as director of pro scouting and Don Warren as senior pro scout.

"Eric Stokes is one of the finest scouts I have been around during my time as a coach in this league," said Head Coach Ron Rivera. "He is a man that knows what I expect and knows the culture that I want to instill here in Washington. His experience as an assistant general manager and his familiarity with my expectations make him an invaluable addition to our organization."

Eric Stokes brings 20 combined years of NFL experience to the role. He joins Washington after spending five seasons with the Carolina Panthers in a variety of roles, including director of college scouting, regional director of college scouting and southwest area scout.

As the director of college scouting for the Panthers, Stokes oversaw a college scouting staff that was tasked with targeting and tracking draft-eligible prospects, as he worked with area scouts. He was responsible for the pre-draft evaluation process at the NFL Combine, pro days and visits by draft-eligible players.

Prior to joining Carolina, Stokes spent two seasons (2014-15) as the assistant general manager of the Miami Dolphins. In his role, Stokes assisted in all aspects of player evaluation and acquisitions at the professional and collegiate levels, including the daily management and makeup of the Dolphins roster as well as guiding the team's preparation for the annual NFL Draft.

From 2012-13, Stokes was the director of college scouting for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Prior to joining the Buccaneers, Stokes spent 12 seasons as a member of the Seattle Seahawks scouting staff, working as an area scout (2000-01, 2005-09) and pro personnel assistant (2002-04) before serving as assistant director of college scouting from 2010-11. In that role, Stokes was instrumental in bringing in defensive standouts safeties Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor, linebacker Bobby Wagner and cornerback Richard Sherman.

Stokes played two seasons as a safety for the Seahawks after being selected in the fifth round of the 1997 NFL Draft. He was selected by the Cleveland Browns in the 1999 expansion draft before an injury cut his career short.

 

 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

from the last time they hired him

Apparent to me Cowden is going to be the new GM and Stokes will be part of our new regime.