Summer of 2020---The Civil Unrest Thread--Read OP Before Posting (in memory of George Floyd)

[nonniey]

14 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You dont agree with what thinking? 

 

 

Thats what the Director of HCA said. Im not sure I understand what you disagree with. 

Yes, you can move artifacts and sometimes you have too, but they are more effective as historical artifacts in the place they were used (The whippings happened at that location and it would give added context to people viewing the post).  I don't like the thinking that has people believing that this was an insult minorities to leave it in place, when the exact opposite is the case. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by nonniey

[Llevron]

10 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Yes, you can move artifacts and sometimes you have too, but they are more effective as historical artifacts in the place they were used (The whippings happened at that location and it would give added context to people viewing the post).  I don't like the thinking that has people believing that this was an insult minorities to leave it in place, when the exact opposite is the case. 

 

Well, it should be noted in that case that the argument can and is being made that its much less effective on display in front of a courthouse than in it could be in a museum some place where correct and appropriate historical significance can be given. As it was; it was just a thing outside of a courthouse where people used to get whipped. Now it can be displayed with other artifacts and actual historical significance can be given to it. Before people were just walking by it leaving the possibility for people to make up what they think it means to them. Now the HCA is taking it and they are going to tell you what place it did in fact have in history. If done correctly it could end up meaning a whole lot more. So im not sure what you have to complain about. The Lourve has many many pieces that by your definition would have more historical significance if they were left where they were found. I dont think that is what you are really trying to argue here. And I would dare you to go to the Louvre and argue that with any of the caretakers there.  

 

I play this game with you not ignoring your previous posting history...... where you come dangerously close to flirting with 'white power' and all the fun little charming bits that come with it. I know your shtick by now rather you mean to do it or not. So please, say something.....intelligent and grounded in reality if possible..... that helps me get past this preconceived notion that you worked so diligently to give me in the past when it comes to matters such as these. I immediately notice when someone that makes the types of under cooked arguments that you frequently make takes a backseat on issues of significance like police brutality, civil unrest, racial injustice when that is all the entire country can talk about but has much and more stupid **** to say about a ****ing whipping post like its of some sort of significance to history to be cherished. But I give you that rope knowing expecting and honestly hoping you use it to hang yourself. 

 

So here you go. I gave you that historical significance argument and helped you get up that ladder. Now dangle or help me understand exactly how moving this thing is so against your "thinking" when in reality, it will have more significance and the group who moved it told you that was the point. Go. 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Yes, you can move artifacts and sometimes you have too, but they are more effective as historical artifacts in the place they were used (The whippings happened at that location and it would give added context to people viewing the post).  I don't like the thinking that has people believing that this was an insult minorities to leave it in place, when the exact opposite is the case. 

 

Most of those statues and other artifacts were not put there to provide any historical context. They were put there to intimidate people of color, specifically blacks and and to remind them of their position in society, at least to those idiots. Any who says other wise is just ignoring history. 

 

It is fine to preserve the history in a museum so move them there - if you want preserve memories of a 4-5 yr failed attempt at treason. Either way they should not be sitting on #1 Main Street or anywhere else in plain sight.  

[LD0506]

[nonniey]

31 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Most of those statues and other artifacts were not put there to provide any historical context. They were put there to intimidate people of color, specifically blacks and and to remind them of their position in society, at least to those idiots. Any who says other wise is just ignoring history. 

 

It is fine to preserve the history in a museum so move them there - if you want preserve memories of a 4-5 yr failed attempt at treason. Either way they should not be sitting on #1 Main Street or anywhere else in plain sight.  

 

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

Well, it should be noted in that case that the argument can and is being made that its much less effective on display in front of a courthouse than in it could be in a museum some place where correct and appropriate historical significance can be given. As it was; it was just a thing outside of a courthouse where people used to get whipped. Now it can be displayed with other artifacts and actual historical significance can be given to it. Before people were just walking by it leaving the possibility for people to make up what they think it means to them. Now the HCA is taking it and they are going to tell you what place it did in fact have in history. If done correctly it could end up meaning a whole lot more. So im not sure what you have to complain about. The Lourve has many many pieces that by your definition would have more historical significance if they were left where they were found. I dont think that is what you are really trying to argue here. And I would dare you to go to the Louvre and argue that with any of the caretakers there.  

 

I play this game with you not ignoring your previous posting history...... where you come dangerously close to flirting with 'white power' and all the fun little charming bits that come with it. I know your shtick by now rather you mean to do it or not. So please, say something.....intelligent and grounded in reality if possible..... that helps me get past this preconceived notion that you worked so diligently to give me in the past when it comes to matters such as these. I immediately notice when someone that makes the types of under cooked arguments that you frequently make takes a backseat on issues of significance like police brutality, civil unrest, racial injustice when that is all the entire country can talk about but has much and more stupid **** to say about a ****ing whipping post like its of some sort of significance to history to be cherished. But I give you that rope knowing expecting and honestly hoping you use it to hang yourself. 

 

So here you go. I gave you that historical significance argument and helped you get up that ladder. Now dangle or help me understand exactly how moving this thing is so against your "thinking" when in reality, it will have more significance and the group who moved it told you that was the point. Go. 

""where you come dangerously close to flirting with 'white power'

 

Ahh - the old accusation of racism move huh?  Other times in history you'd have been saying I've come dangerously close to wrecking. You have joined the US equivalent of a struggle session (Look it up). 

31 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Most of those statues and other artifacts were not put there to provide any historical context. They were put there to intimidate people of color, specifically blacks and and to remind them of their position in society, at least to those idiots. Any who says other wise is just ignoring history. 

 

It is fine to preserve the history in a museum so move them there - if you want preserve memories of a 4-5 yr failed attempt at treason. Either way they should not be sitting on #1 Main Street or anywhere else in plain sight.  

Think you may have gone off track here we were discussing historical artifacts where events actually occurred vice putting up monuments to celebrate individuals defending slavery.  

Edited July 2, 2020 by nonniey

[TradeTheBeal!]

Stonewall came down for the same reason he went up...white supremacy.  We were cool with it for a while, and now we’re not.

 

Life is funny like that.

[goskins10]

10 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 

""where you come dangerously close to flirting with 'white power'

 

You included my comment to start - not sure what point you are making here. I never said anything about white power nor did i accuse anyone - yet. 

 

10 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 

Ahh - the old accusation of racism move huh?  Other times in history you'd have been saying I've come dangerously close to wrecking. You have joined the US equivalent of a struggle session (Look it up). 

 

These statues were put up by racists ****s to remind former slaves of their place. So it's not racists accusations - it's historical fact. Not sure what your point here is unless you do not think the confederate and other statues were put there for racists reasons. In that case, you need to do some research.

 

As far as the struggle session - that's bull****. I am not trying to ridicule you or anyone. Just pointing out historical facts and suggesting now is good time to correct the wrong. Move them to museums if you want. But they need to be taken down. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Think you may have gone off track here we were discussing historical artifacts where events actually occurred vice putting up monuments to celebrate individuals defending slavery.  

 

Not really pertinent to be honest. I still maintain the same. All of that belongs in a museum, not on street corners as bad reminders. Why have such reminders of that struggle in plain site? 

 

 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

""where you come dangerously close to flirting with 'white power'

 

Ahh - the old accusation of racism move huh?  Other times in history you'd have been saying I've come dangerously close to wrecking. You have joined the US equivalent of a struggle session (Look it up). 

 

You aint really defending your point with this. That you latched onto the white power thing and completely ignored everything else says more about your argument than anything I can say to be honest but that's your business. I will say though, I'm not accusing you of racism. I am letting you know that I judge what you bring to the table as shallow enough to be brushed aside and categorized in a similar pile of bull**** that just happens to run parallel to the arguments a lot of racists make. Rather that is intentional on your part or just how you "think" is really up to you. 

 

And that you immediately give up on your argument and go there tells me I'm right to do so. 
 

Edit: Also please don’t feel inclined to respond if you don’t want to continue to try and prove the point that “artifacts” have noticeably less historical value in a museum compared to where they were used. That’s all I’m trying to argue since you brought it to me. We don’t really need to do the other thing back and forth if you don’t want to. I don’t want to. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Llevron

[skinsmarydu]

6 hours ago, nonniey said:

it was an artifact that showed what had been done. 

I know I'm late to the party, but what had been done WAS WRONG, so this...thing...should've been gone long ago, as was the act. 

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, skinsmarydu said:

I know I'm late to the party, but what had been done WAS WRONG, so this...thing...should've been gone long ago, as was the act. 

Hey, I guess the Whitney Plantation should be added to your the lists. You all are missing the point of why it was preserved and are acting like a bunch of Jacobins. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by nonniey

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, nonniey said:

Hey, I guess the Whitney Plantation should be added to the list. You all are missing the point of why it was preserved and are acting like a bunch of Jacobins. 

 

Whitney Plantation is a museum. It's a place you go to learn about the history. You book tours and make plans to go there - if you want to. But people do not have to go there and through there in every day life. So really poor example since at least one of us has said take these things to museum if you want. 

 

The bigger problem is you have not actually made a point, just meandered around a very weak premise. We all heard and understood what you were trying to say. That the place of origin is important to the history and that some of those memorials should be left there for that reason. Sorry, but that's bull****. The point of taking these down is that they remind people of the wrongs that have been done over time, very likely to members of their family if not to them. The statues and monuments being in plain site is why they need to be taken down. 

 

Last but not least, if you cant actually argue the point, trying to associate people with extremist groups will not help make your point. In fact it not only shows how weak the point is, it's a total waste of a google search on your part. 

[visionary]

 

[Kosher Ham]

Easy fix. Build a confederate museum.  Storage for all that stuff and you choose whether you are interested in going or not. 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Kosher Ham

[visionary]

 

[China]

Apparently that wasn't the first time the McCloskey's have pulled a gun on somebody:

 

Messenger: This wasn’t the first time the McCloskeys pulled a gun to protect property, lawsuit says

 

The day after Mark and Patricia McCloskey made national news, they lost in court. 

 

The Portland Place couple, now known for pulling out a pistol and rifle and pointing them at protesters who walked by their mansion on the way to Mayor Lyda Krewson’s house in the Central West End, said they were scared. They said they were defending their property. 

 

That’s what the two attorneys have been doing in St. Louis Circuit Court since 2017, defending a sliver of property in what they call the “private place” of the tony neighborhood where they live. The defendants in the case are the trustees of Portland Place, who say a triangle of land that the McCloskeys claim as their own actually belongs to the neighborhood.

 

As the nation debates whether it was appropriate for the wealthy couple to aim their weapons at the protesters on a sidewalk and road that was designed to keep outsiders away, the McCloskeys are suing, in part, over the placement of the very sign that indicates the road to their house is a “Private Street.”

 

“Between the time of acquisition of One Portland Place and the construction of the above-referenced ten foot wall, the McCloskeys regularly prohibited all persons, including Portland Place residents, from crossing the Parcel including at least at one point, challenging a resident at gun point who refused to heed the McCloskeys’ warnings to stay off such property,” states an affidavit in the lawsuit.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

 

[skinsmarydu]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Last but not least, if you cant actually argue the point, trying to associate people with extremist groups will not help make your point. In fact it not only shows how weak the point is, it's a total waste of a google search on your part. 

Trying to make a point with this one is a futile exercise. 

[skinsmarydu]

2 hours ago, nonniey said:

Hey, I guess the Whitney Plantation should be added to your the lists. You all are missing the point of why it was preserved and are acting like a bunch of Jacobins. 

I worked at Flint Plantation, and my best friend got married there. 

 

I WAS SAYING BAD THINGS ARE BAD. 

 

Work through it. You'll be okay, I promise. I did. 

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, Kosher Ham said:

Easy fix. Build a confederate museum.  Storage for all that stuff and you choose whether you are interested in going or not. 

You guys ares still missing the point - It wasn't even confederate stuff I was talking about -  I'm pointing out the Jacobin inclinations that have taken control off much of the protest and this board.

[skinsmarydu]

1 minute ago, nonniey said:

You guys ares still missing the point - It wasn't even confederate stuff I was talking about -  I'm pointing out the Jacobin inclinations that have taken control off much of the protest and this board.

Oh shut up, then grow up. 

We all do it. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Guide to 2020:

 

Defending monuments to slavery and white supremacy...don’t.

Mansplaining to grown-ass women like @skinsmarydu...don’t.

Asking me when I’m gonna cut my hair...don’t.

Edited July 3, 2020 by TryTheBeal!

[nonniey]

29 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

Oh shut up, then grow up. 

We all do it. 

You kind of proved my point.

[Kosher Ham]

Problem is that you never really made a clear point. :whoknows:

Edited July 3, 2020 by Kosher Ham

[skinsmarydu]

28 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Guide to 2020:

 

Defending monuments to slavery and white supremacy...don’t.

Mansplaining to grown-ass women like @skinsmarydu...don’t.

Asking me when I’m gonna cut my hair...don’t.

I won't. Ever. 

Promise. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

11 hours ago, nonniey said:

I don't like the thinking that has people believing that this was an insult minorities to leave it in place, when the exact opposite is the case. 

 

“You Shall Not Be Offended!”

[PokerPacker]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Guide to 2020:

 

Defending monuments to slavery and white supremacy...don’t.

Mansplaining to grown-ass women like @skinsmarydu...don’t.

Asking me when I’m gonna cut my hair...don’t.

I won't ask you went you're gonna cut your hair.  But when you do cut it, will you cut it into a Mullet?

2 hours ago, China said:

Apparently that wasn't the first time the McCloskey's have pulled a gun on somebody:

Completely unsurprised.  As I said when the live-feed video came out, he was already out there with his AR-15 as soon as they ambled through the open gate.  That's not a panic-move, that's a "Ooh, an excuse to show off what a big man I am with my AR-15" move.