volsmet Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 * If you hit on a rookie QB, you’re a contender for 4-5 years. If you hit on a DE, you may see a double team on him from time to time. This **** is simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPhat Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 We’ve seen the injury prone QB show before in RGIII. Pass on Tua! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxprodigyxx Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 On 3/3/2020 at 5:10 PM, kwitt said: You can NOT ever ever have too many pass rushers. Never. how about 20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 On 3/5/2020 at 9:36 AM, Lovi said: I think that it's been long enough to determine that Tua indeed does not understand Rule #8 nor does he plan on correcting it. Maybe he broke both of his hands and can't type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 11 hours ago, volsmet said: Your sources, on the other hand, are? Common sense, my point is that it's not an impediment to Ron because he knew what he could or couldn't do with Haskins before he took the job. McShay tried to make it a hot take as if things are already going south because the owner isn't letting the new coach do what he wants to do. I don't need sources to believe Ron had deep conversations with Dan concerning Haskins prior to taking the job, we have the 2nd pick and a ton of options at our disposal, I'm willing to bet good money that was a major discussion point before he took the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 11 hours ago, volsmet said: * If you hit on a rookie QB, you’re a contender for 4-5 years. If you hit on a DE, you may see a double team on him from time to time. This **** is simple. Sadly true. My main problem is that i don't trust the FO to handle this correctly. A competent team would be able to keep first round value on Haskins even if they went QB in the first. Moot point if you draft a starting QB i suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pick6 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 At this point the argument is Haskins & Young or Tua. I am taking the Haskins & Young package. I also believe Tua is an awesome talent, but unfortunately I don’t think his health will let him fully reach that potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 On 3/2/2020 at 11:57 PM, rumplestilskin said: "Might" be a left handed Drew Brees. "Might" be a Russell Wilson "if" healthy. Too many unknowns. If it makes you feel good to initiate repetition in this forum by all means you are intitled. Von Miller won a Superbowl almost by himself. Broncos have done what since Peyton Manning retired? On 3/7/2020 at 12:43 PM, JSSkinz said: Common sense, my point is that it's not an impediment to Ron because he knew what he could or couldn't do with Haskins before he took the job. McShay tried to make it a hot take as if things are already going south because the owner isn't letting the new coach do what he wants to do. I don't need sources to believe Ron had deep conversations with Dan concerning Haskins prior to taking the job, we have the 2nd pick and a ton of options at our disposal, I'm willing to bet good money that was a major discussion point before he took the job. I agree with you. I’m sure Haskins was talked about. Ron told Snyder exactly how he felt about Haskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 On 3/7/2020 at 9:39 AM, xxprodigyxx said: how about 20? You are right! But it starts with the QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestilskin Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, maskedsuperstar said: Broncos have done what since Peyton Manning retired? What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maskedsuperstar Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 Just now, rumplestilskin said: What's your point? QB league! Without good QB play, team is not going too win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestilskin Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, maskedsuperstar said: QB league! Without good QB play, team is not going too win. Elite edge rushers can make a good QB bad in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestilskin Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Tua can be the second coming of Joe Montana but it means nothing if he spends his time in the league hurt. I for one am tired of taking gambles on injury prone players as this team has done far too much of it recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/7/2020 at 3:07 AM, volsmet said: * If you hit on a rookie QB, you’re a contender for 4-5 years. If you hit on a DE, you may see a double team on him from time to time. This **** is simple. I think this is only true if you either 1) Hit on a Patrick Mahomes who is an MVP in his second year and is basically unstoppable. or 2) Hit on a QB who's good but has a more normal rookie QB learning curve and happens to go to a great team where doesn't immediately have to put the team on his shoulders (AKA Big Ben in his first few years). #1 is insanely unlikely. When was the last time that happened? Peyton was an INT machine his first season starting, Brady was pretty mediocre in 2001. Big Ben was mediocre for his first few years. Aaron Rodgers hit the ground running mostly, but he sat for 3 years preparing. Brees was completely mediocre (at best) his first few years. Most young QBs, even "hits", are going to need at least a couple years to really get to the point where they can carry a team. So realistically that gives you a couple of years window if you're planning on jettisoning them once their rookie deal is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 No one has seemed to answer this basic question when I ask it... Is Tua really THAT much better than Haskins that we should pass up on Young? I don't think he is. Healthy or not. We actually saw a rookie QB grow as the season progressed and some want to throw it away because Tua is supposedly a better more superior QB? Again, even if he is, the equation is super simple. Haskins and Young > Tagovailoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSkins21 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/7/2020 at 3:07 AM, volsmet said: * If you hit on a rookie QB, you’re a contender for 4-5 years. If you hit on a DE, you may see a double team on him from time to time. This **** is simple. What if you hit on your rookie QB AND you hit on a DE? Where die that put us? Because we still have a shot to do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I dunno, I wonder how anyone can even consider going Tua when he has already run afoul of the mods with the Rule 8 thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said: What if you hit on your rookie QB AND you hit on a DE? Where die that put us? Because we still have a shot to do both. If you are sold on Haskins, it’s an easy choice to take Young. If you’re not sold on DH, and you believe Tua is a DeShaun Watson level prospect, you take Tua. You can’t pass on Watson to take Myles Garrett. Of course, Clev passed on Watson for Garrett & it resulted in them landing the #1 overall pick in 2018 — should we see a similar fate, we could have Young & Lawrence. 🤔 38 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said: No one has seemed to answer this basic question when I ask it... Is Tua really THAT much better than Haskins that we should pass up on Young? I don't think he is. Healthy or not. We actually saw a rookie QB grow as the season progressed and some want to throw it away because Tua is supposedly a better more superior QB? Again, even if he is, the equation is super simple. Haskins and Young > Tagovailoa. No one wanted Haskins in the top 15 other than an owner, who has a son, who is his buddy. Every nfl team would take Tua in the top 2 if healthy. Baker & Garrett < DeShaun Watson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 hours ago, mistertim said: I think this is only true if you either 1) Hit on a Patrick Mahomes who is an MVP in his second year and is basically unstoppable. or 2) Hit on a QB who's good but has a more normal rookie QB learning curve and happens to go to a great team where doesn't immediately have to put the team on his shoulders (AKA Big Ben in his first few years). #1 is insanely unlikely. When was the last time that happened? Peyton was an INT machine his first season starting, Brady was pretty mediocre in 2001. Big Ben was mediocre for his first few years. Aaron Rodgers hit the ground running mostly, but he sat for 3 years preparing. Brees was completely mediocre (at best) his first few years. Most young QBs, even "hits", are going to need at least a couple years to really get to the point where they can carry a team. So realistically that gives you a couple of years window if you're planning on jettisoning them once their rookie deal is up. Goff, Jackson, Wentz, Wilson, Watson, Mahomes ... they all had legitimate runs on rookie deals. Even Trubisky ...& Allen... These rookie QB deals are the nfl cheat code, if you can upgrade your rookie QB, you should do it. If you like your rookie QB, then you’re good to go, just don’t pay him when the deal expires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 18 minutes ago, volsmet said: No one wanted Haskins in the top 15 other than an owner, who has a son, who is his buddy. Every nfl team would take Tua in the top 2 if healthy. If that's the best reason you have for not wanting to keep Haskins it's a weak hill to die on. Trubisky was the second overall pick too... Chicago already wants to get rid of him. That's why I can't fathom taking a risk on an injured QB when you see that Haskins last two games he was able to produce. His last game against the Giants, you can see things started to click. The only other option with the number two pick should be to trade back. There's no way anyone can convince me that drafting another QB when it looks like you already have a decent QB on the roster. Haskins wasn't that bad that and Tua isn't that good... AND HE'S INJURED! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said: If that's the best reason you have for not wanting to keep Haskins it's a weak hill to die on. Trubisky was the second overall pick too... Chicago already wants to get rid of him. That's why I can't fathom taking a risk on an injured QB when you see that Haskins last two games he was able to produce. His last game against the Giants, you can see things started to click. The only other option with the number two pick should be to trade back. There's no way anyone can convince me that drafting another QB when it looks like you already have a decent QB on the roster. Haskins wasn't that bad that and Tua isn't that good... AND HE'S INJURED! lol Haskins was extremely bad. Then he looked like he put it together in incredible fashion the last two games. But then you look at context. He was awful when he was thrown in to the wolves (and, despite Gruden 'not giving him reps', he also looked like he didn't put any time into his craft at all). But he clearly had no idea what he was doing. As he began starting, he made minor improvements and kept making mistakes. Then he understood things and beat up two of the worst secondaries in football. And by beat up, I mean he absolutely throttled them. Nothing Haskins did last year really cemented anything either way (good OR bad) vs. what he was as a prospect. Great arm, mechanically not great, quick learner, inconsistent decision making, comfortable in the pocket, good size, can throw well into small windows, mediocre ball placement when he has more space to throw. In his sample size from last year, none of that changed. Add a new offense to learn to the mix. Now, on the flipside, add Zampese to the mix. No one can fault someone for believing Haskins should be the QB. Conversely, no one can fault anyone that thinks we can upgrade there. If this were the 2020 NFL Draft, we needed a QB, Haskins declared this year... Who would want him over Joe Burrow? Tua? Justin Herbert? Love? It's an interesting conversation. I think they ultimately stick with Haskins, primarily due to Tua's injuries. But this isn't a ridiculous premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Exactly how would I go about nominating KDawg for a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to keep an even keel in this thread? Just curious...... My take on Haskins is that his issues are like 87.4% 'tude, motivation/dedication/resolve/etc.. I KNOW he can physically do it, I saw it at OSU, and nitpick all ya want, his performance there was valid. Translating it to the pros takes a level of maturity and grit that Terry McLaurin has and Haskins has yet to demonstrate. Not dinging the kid, I like DH, think he might shock some people this season but he has to make that happen. I wonder, considering comments made by teammates/coaches/etc. from OSU, what effect might an exuberant, lovable extrovert like Chase Young, one of his college brethren, have on Haskins. I think the kid would benefit from having a posse here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 8 minutes ago, LD0506 said: My take on Haskins is that his issues are like 87.4% 'tude, motivation/dedication/resolve/etc.. That's not gonna go anywhere. That's just how kids around here act nowadays. It's like pseudo-swag or something. I guess because I'm an "oldhead" now, I can pick up on that type. What I've seen Haskins do or say isn't any different than most of the kids I've run into over the last few years in the DMV. Having said that, I think it's very encouraging that he's been in the facility a ton over the last month or so. 1 hour ago, KDawg said: But this isn't a ridiculous premise. I don't think it's ridiculous. I just think it'll be a waste. And on top of that... INSTANT QB Controversy. I'm so over those lol What would you do KD? I might have missed it looking over the thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said: That's not gonna go anywhere. That's just how kids around here act nowadays. It's like pseudo-swag or something. I guess because I'm an "oldhead" now, I can pick up on that type. What I've seen Haskins do or say isn't any different than most of the kids I've run into over the last few years in the DMV. Having said that, I think it's very encouraging that he's been in the facility a ton over the last month or so. I don't think it's ridiculous. I just think it'll be a waste. And on top of that... INSTANT QB Controversy. I'm so over those lol What would you do KD? I might have missed it looking over the thread... Tua is extremely tempting. I'm not sold on Haskins. I'm... 50/50 on him. I think Tua is absolutely a significant upgrade... If he's healthy. And for that reason, right now, I'm taking Chase Young at 2. That's also why, right now, if Young goes #1, I'm trading back from 2 to try to net Isaiah Simmons and extra draft assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo'sRangers Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/8/2020 at 6:35 PM, maskedsuperstar said: Broncos have done what since Peyton Manning retired? I agree with you. I’m sure Haskins was talked about. Ron told Snyder exactly how he felt about Haskins The Bronco's won that Super Bowl, IMHO, despite Peyton. The defense carried them almost as much as the Ravens years back with Trent Dilfer. Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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