We’re sitting pretty here guys.

[megared]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Yes, I see all of that.

 

But that's not what I meant.

 

We don't trade a first rounder and we have one. #15. It sounds like Sweat was in play for that spot. So, we only draft one of Sweat and Haskins. Which do you draft? Choice being only between them...

 

I think I go Sweat and don't look back.

 

Which changes what we do at 2 this year, and likely makes Tua our quarterback.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, I'm saying no way Sweat was worth the #15, taking into account where he is, and where he needs to get to.  As much as the scheme may have hindered him, he still wasn't winning very many 1-1 situations.  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Rivera picked up a vet (or kept Nate Orchard) as a challenge to him, much like I'd imagine him pursuing a competent backup QB.  

 

At #15, I'm fine with Haskins, because Sweat didn't change us going 0-5 being an opening day starter.  And at that point in the season, he was overmatched.  At least we had Haskins to turn to, once we quickly realized that Keenum was the answer to no one's prayers. 

 

The only reason you could possibly justify going Sweat with the #15 (knowing no one else was interested in him there) would be because you are in love with his measurables, and therefore potential.  I haven't heard anyone describe him as a 'steal' at #26, or someone that was a BPA at the #15 pick.  

[KDawg]

Just now, megared said:

 

With the benefit of hindsight, I'm saying no way Sweat was worth the #15, taking into account where he is, and where he needs to get to.  As much as the scheme may have hindered him, he still wasn't winning very many 1-1 situations.  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Rivera picked up a vet (or kept Nate Orchard) as a challenge to him, much like I'd imagine him pursuing a competent backup QB.  

 

At #15, I'm fine with Haskins, because Sweat didn't change us going 0-5 being an opening day starter.  And at that point in the season, he was overmatched.  At least we had Haskins to turn to, once we quickly realized that Keenum was the answer to no one's prayers. 

 

The only reason you could possibly justify going Sweat with the #15 (knowing no one else was interested in him there) would be because you are in love with his measurables, and therefore potential.  I haven't heard anyone describe him as a 'steal' at #26, or someone that was a BPA at the #15 pick.  

 

But again, this isn't what I'm asking.

 

On draft day. Forget hindsight.

 

Which do you take at 15?

[megared]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

But again, this isn't what I'm asking.

 

On draft day. Forget hindsight.

 

Which do you take at 15?

 

Haskins.  His upside was worth the gamble.  He could've been reasonably viewed as the BPA there.  Even the Redskins didn't think Sweat was worth the #15.  

[PlayAction]

Always looking for clues to what Rivera will do to mold the Skins.  He says he would like a mix of hard working team first veterans plus young up-and-coming talent.  To me that means Kerrigan won't be traded.  Maybe a lower price or extended contract but he's there to provide veteran leadership.

Rivera and Turner offenses have heavily relied upon the TE position.  Skins will need to use free agent money for that.  Hopefully acquire another WR in the draft (another speedster) if they decide to go deep frequently.  

[KDawg]

Just now, megared said:

 

Haskins.  His upside was worth the gamble.  He could've been reasonably viewed as the BPA there.  Even the Redskins didn't think Sweat was worth the #15.  

 

I'm not sure I agree with you there.

 

I think the Redskins football people wanted Sweat there, but Snyder wanted Haskins. And so he said the football people could trade up later if he was available to snag Sweat.

 

I would have likely traded down from #15 and drafted Sweat. The 2020 draft was always a better year for QB, so stockpiling assets last year while getting a highly touted edge was ideal in my eyes.

 

I was never against Haskins, but I knew he had work. And Gruden being a lame duck made taking a quarterback an egregious error.

[VRIEL1]

On 1/14/2020 at 10:12 AM, hatchetwound said:

I agree!  It just stinks that we no longer have our 2nd rounder.  Thanks a lot, Bruce!  😕 

 

i thought I read somewhere that the Redskins got a pick back for crowder who went to the Jets? Compensatory pick in the 2nd round. 

[RawRebel]

3 hours ago, megared said:

 

That's no consolation when we would've been essentially sitting on two first rounders this year because of how poorly we finished.  

 

Not that we'd want to, but right now we couldn't get two seconds back for him.  Which means the team gambled on his potential.  Whether he lives up to it or not, remains to be seen.  

Didnt we actually get 2 1st rounders last year instead of essentially getting a 1st and a 2nd this year? Sweat getting 7 sacks his rookie season is something to build on. Everyone loved the pick when it happened. 

[veteranskinsfan]

On 1/14/2020 at 6:38 AM, crabbypatty said:

There's plenty of reason to be optimistic. This team is not a 3 win team. This is probably a 7 or 8 win team as assembled. Poor coaching and culture dragged them down.

 

I'll be interested to see how they fare in the next few years. Dan is making all the right noises and doing all the right things, maybe he's learned his lesson and this dark cloud over Ashburn will finally go away and we'll see some real progress.

 

I'm optimistic though. We've got a proven coach and a ton of young talent. The whole front office has been **** canned and all the stuff we've been ****ing about for years is being addressed/changed.

We'll see what the future holds, but I'm excited.

One big key will be if the older coaches can relate well and teach the younger players.  Some teams go to younger coaches because they feel they can relate better to 

younger players that come out each year.  Likewise the younger players have to be willing to learn and not ignore the training they are getting from the new Skins coaching

regime.

[megared]

31 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm not sure I agree with you there.

 

I think the Redskins football people wanted Sweat there, but Snyder wanted Haskins. And so he said the football people could trade up later if he was available to snag Sweat.

 

I would have likely traded down from #15 and drafted Sweat. The 2020 draft was always a better year for QB, so stockpiling assets last year while getting a highly touted edge was ideal in my eyes.

 

I was never against Haskins, but I knew he had work. And Gruden being a lame duck made taking a quarterback an egregious error.

 

But that wasn't the option you gave me.  You said choose between the two.  I already said I didn't want a QB.  We're wasting his most valuable years (rookie contract) with probably the highest payroll in the league, allocated to the position.  

 

I don't necessarily believe Haskins WAS the BPA at #15, but at least he's closer to one, than Sweat would've been.  

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

But that wasn't the option you gave me.  You said choose between the two.  I already said I didn't want a QB.  We're wasting his most valuable years (rookie contract) with probably the highest payroll in the league, allocated to the position.  

 

I don't necessarily believe Haskins WAS the BPA at #15, but at least he's closer to one, than Sweat would've been.  

Well, I already said from the options in an earlier post it was Sweat.

 

Though I don’t mind the Haskins pick. 
 

But it was Sweat at 15.

[megared]

 

26 minutes ago, RawRebel said:

Didnt we actually get 2 1st rounders last year instead of essentially getting a 1st and a 2nd this year? Sweat getting 7 sacks his rookie season is something to build on. Everyone loved the pick when it happened. 

 

Again, not to say he won't ever be a really good player, but it was borrowing from the future to benefit the present.  That's the problem I had with it.  There's no guarantee he stays healthy.  I'd rather have that risk spread amongst two starters, than one guy. 

 

It'd be another story if he came in instantly pro ready, but he wasn't.   We drafted him because we had a hole at his position, and we fell in love with his combine numbers.  It'd be hard to argue him as a BPA, when we drafted him for a need we immediately stuck him as a starter to fill.  

[RabidFan]

50 minutes ago, VRIEL1 said:

 

i thought I read somewhere that the Redskins got a pick back for crowder who went to the Jets? Compensatory pick in the 2nd round. 

 

It's been speculated (on Redskins Wire) that the pick will be a 4th rounder.

[cakmoney61]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

I'm not sure we're in great position... 

 

We are on the right track...

 

We have significant concerns in the following positions (not in any order):

 

KDawg, your laundry list of possible concerns were chilling but true.  In fact, IMHO, you accurately described a 3-13 team or worse.  Let's hope that most of what ailed this team get fixed ASAP. 

 

For those who wish we had this year's #2 pick in the second round, the saying of hindsight being 20/20 is extremely apropos.  Personally, I am glad they drafted Sweat, but I too would love to have that pick.  Oh, the things they could do if they had it.

[Chump Bailey]

15 hours ago, method man said:

The Montez Sweat was a great trade. If the rumors of the fake heart condition were not out there, he would have been a top 15 pick. Teams generally are not able to trade a 2nd in the current year and a 2nd in the following year for a top 15 pick

 

I agree. D.K. Metcalf would have been nice too though. MetCalf and McLauren would have been ridiculous.

[megared]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm not sure I agree with you there.

 

I think the Redskins football people wanted Sweat there, but Snyder wanted Haskins. And so he said the football people could trade up later if he was available to snag Sweat.

 

I would have likely traded down from #15 and drafted Sweat. The 2020 draft was always a better year for QB, so stockpiling assets last year while getting a highly touted edge was ideal in my eyes.

 

I was never against Haskins, but I knew he had work. And Gruden being a lame duck made taking a quarterback an egregious error.

 

Sometimes you can take the wrong route to arrive at the right answer.  The fact that the FO got Sweat's value off by almost half of a round doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy about how they're building their draft boards.  We can talk about where Sweat was projected in mock drafts, but he was the 6th DE taken in actuality.

 

And I don't think you can fault the organization for taking Haskins because of what Gruden was or wasn't going to do.  You'd expect a professional to do their job, regardless of situation they're placed in.  Had Jay put a little time and effort into developing Haskins, instead of making him an expensive practice squad player, he possibly could've salvaged his job.  The fact that Haskins was the backup, dressing on gamedays, and woefully unprepared to play, is squarely on the coaches' shoulders.  And that was a fireable offense in of itself.  

 

Let me ask, if we held the #26, primed to take Sweat and a team (that you suspected would be terrible) offered you a two seconds, one of which you knew was the #46 pick that year, would you have taken it? I wouldn't have hesitated knowing that Sweat wasn't the final puzzle piece to a championship team.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

 

2

16 minutes ago, megared said:

Let me ask, if we held the #26, primed to take Sweat and a team (that you suspected would be terrible) offered you a two seconds, one of which you knew was the #46 pick that year, would you have taken it? I wouldn't have hesitated knowing that Sweat wasn't the final puzzle piece to a championship team.  

 

Very few--if any--teams consider drafted players a final puzzle piece for anything. Drafted players, no matter the round, are always viewed in reference to their long-term prospects. They look at drafted players as a relatively cheap way of bringing in young talent that (hopefully) will develop into a blue-chip player by the time they need to decide on paying them more...a LOT more. Plus, by moving up to draft Sweat in the 1st, they get to use the 5th year option on him should he turn out to be as good as they predicted. Neither Sweat or Haskins needed to be incredible right off the bat in order for drafting them in the 1st to be a wise decision.

[Jericho]

I feel some optimism, but...

 

<MOD EDITED, REMOVED PIC FOR VIOLATING RULE 6, DON’T CIRCUMVENT THE PROFANITY FILTER>

 

[megared]

29 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Very few--if any--teams consider drafted players a final puzzle piece for anything. Drafted players, no matter the round, are always viewed in reference to their long-term prospects. They look at drafted players as a relatively cheap way of bringing in young talent that (hopefully) will develop into a blue-chip player by the time they need to decide on paying them more...a LOT more. Plus, by moving up to draft Sweat in the 1st, they get to use the 5th year option on him should he turn out to be as good as they predicted. Neither Sweat or Haskins needed to be incredible right off the bat in order for drafting them in the 1st to be a wise decision.

 

San Fran would beg to differ. 

 

And if that was the case, they would've gone BPA and not have become affixed on only one edge rusher.  The reason they felt they HAD to go get a DE, was because they let P.  Smith hit free agency.  If we're talking long term goals, they didn't have to start him from day 1, when he missed a chunk of training camp/preseason.  I think you're attributing a level of long term planning to an organization that has not exhibited that kind of foresight in a long time. 

 

I mean, what's the chances that the BPA happens to be at the position you coincidentally don't have a starter to pencil in?  1/10?  1/20?  

[hatchetwound]

4 hours ago, VRIEL1 said:

 

i thought I read somewhere that the Redskins got a pick back for crowder who went to the Jets? Compensatory pick in the 2nd round. 

As it stands right now, we are getting a 4th for Crowder.  However comp picks are at the end of the round, so its basically a 5th, I'm afraid

[hatchetwound]

4 hours ago, RawRebel said:

Didnt we actually get 2 1st rounders last year instead of essentially getting a 1st and a 2nd this year? Sweat getting 7 sacks his rookie season is something to build on. Everyone loved the pick when it happened. 

 

I'm not exactly sure what the question is?  

 

To get Sweat, we used our 2nd round pick (46) last year and our 2nd round pick (34) this year to move up to #26.  

 

Again, this is not a knock on Sweat.  I liked the trade last year because I was looking at it as 46 and ~46 to get to 26.  Now knowing we have 34, it makes me think if we had that pick this year, and wanted to jump up into the 1st, it would take a heck of a lot of draft capital to do.  

[PlayAction]

Always looking for clues to what Rivera will do to mold the Skins.  He says he would like a mix of hard working team first veterans plus young up-and-coming talent.  To me that means Kerrigan won't be traded.  Maybe a lower price or extended contract but he's there to provide veteran leadership.

Rivera and Turner offenses have heavily relied upon the TE position.  IMO Skins will need to use free agent money for that.  Hopefully acquire another WR in the draft (another speedster) if they decide to go deep frequently.  

As to picking Sweat...that's in the past.....judge him after another 2 years.  I'd like more draft picks but at this point I'm not thinking Williams or Kerrigan in a trade.  Still there should be some favorite players at the top of the 3rd round

[hatchetwound]

5 hours ago, VRIEL1 said:

 

i thought I read somewhere that the Redskins got a pick back for crowder who went to the Jets? Compensatory pick in the 2nd round. 

 

50 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

As it stands right now, we are getting a 4th for Crowder.  However comp picks are at the end of the round, so its basically a 5th, I'm afraid

 

Sorry for the follow up post but I was doing some research on wikipedia.  It appears the last time a 2nd round comp pick was awarded was 1998.  Not sure why it stopped, but it appears the highest you can get these days is a 3rd

[megared]

49 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

Sorry for the follow up post but I was doing some research on wikipedia.  It appears the last time a 2nd round comp pick was awarded was 1998.  Not sure why it stopped, but it appears the highest you can get these days is a 3rd

 

Honestly, it's a dumb system that artificially restricts movements and impedes trading guys in the last year of their contract.  It rewards teams for not actively managing their roster and discourages them from replacing guys in free agency.  And for what?  Other than Dak Prescott, there's probably 100 guys that never contributed to every Mike Daniels.  I mean Pernell McPhee makes a short list of greatest all-time comp picks...and he's been useless pretty much ever since he got his payday.    

[posse87]

22 hours ago, The Rook said:

 

I know you meant this as a compliment, but no. 

 

Just like you wouldn't call Art Monk "Lil Bobby Mitchell", let Terry McLaurin make a name for himself. 

 

HTTR 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

I agree. I don’t think there is much of a comparison there. Monk was slow. He had pillow soft hands and used is body to make incredible possession WR catches. McLaurin is a superior athlete.