Press Release: #REDSKINS ANNOUNCE RYAN VERMILLION AS HEAD ATHLETIC TRAINER

[TSO]

2 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

A lot of data to sift through, and as mentioned, it's hard to quantify bad luck.

I think that’s kind of the point of it, though. If you see a pattern, that should pretty much eliminate luck from the equation. 
 

If you’re consistently ranked among the worse and there are other teams consistently ranked among the best... the take away should absolutely be that something is wrong with the operation compared to elsewhere and it’s not just a randomized product. 
 

Now, that doesn’t have to mean it’s necessarily on the Training Staff. Could be the facilities, the fields, the surgeons, etc... and/or some combination thereof, but with us the two constants have been Snyder and Hess since the early 2000s. Hard to assume Hess played no role. 

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Ok, help me out here. If I’m reading this right, I’m coming away with the Panthers being better than us on average over the course of that time, but not necessarily good? Or is that off? 
 

I need to look at it more, I know, but just my initial take away from it that. 
 

I remember how 2013 was such an anomaly for us injury-wise, so it makes sense. We were so healthy that year and it was one of of our worst seasons.  

 

Yea, that's the way I read it too. If you look at say 2013 and before they were worse. But then it changed and the last 4 seasons in this chart they got better for the most part - 2017 was not great. But it's not like we are night and day different.

 

I wish I had 2018 and 2019. It would give a more complete picture. I may have 2018 in comments just have not had a chance to look yet. 2018 we were top 5 - may have even been #1. And 2019 is close to top also.

[KDawg]

The Vermillion Dollar Man.

[bowhunter]

I honestly just hope that this crew is better at selecting the game day cleats. It always seemed to be that we slid/slipped 3x more than our opponents.

[joeken24]

The Redskins have always seemed to invest in size, strength, speed guys. I think they overlook the durability piece. If a player comes in the league with lower body issues, they are more likely to continue down that road. I really hope they look at that in the drafts moving forward. IMO, the focus on the SC coach or the medical staff should never be this hyped. I get that injuries happen, but a lot of our guys are either getting stuck in concussion protocol or suffering from preexisting conditions. I'd rather have C class durable players that are healthy and hungry, than B player that can't stay on the field.

[TSO]

3 hours ago, joeken24 said:

IMO, the focus on the SC trainer should never be this hyped.

SC trainer? 
 

I feel like a broken record at this point, but the Strength & Conditioning Staff has nothing to do with injury recovery plans or timelines. They don’t clear players. They’re part of the coaching staff and focus on individual/positional workout regimens. 
 

The Medical Staff are the doctors/surgeons that fully diagnose and perform surgery, if necessary, on the players. Sometimes that term, when used, includes the Athletic Training Staff. Speaking of which...
 

The Athletic Training Staff is basically the communicating body in between the coaching staff and the medical staff. Really, they’re in between EVERYONE in the organization. It’s a tough job, for sure. They can often be the first line of diagnosis (preliminary), they work with the players on injury recovery plans and timelines, they implement methods to prevent injury, and they clear players to play. 
 

The SC and Medical Staff can definitely be a part of the problem, but by all accounts the players here have had nothing but praise for those guys, while the frustrations have been almost exclusively leveled at Hess and the ATS. 
 

Here are the most recent ones: 

 

 

It is a problem around the NFL and Hess isn’t the only Trainer who’s had problems... but we've definitely had one of the worst, if not the worst, one. 
 

Now, as is with everyone under Dan, it might not totally be his fault. He may have been undermined often. Most people thought nothing of this when it came out, but it says a lot actually: 

 

Either way, it was time to move on. Maybe Hess can go elsewhere and shed the stain of the organization and improve on his craft. 
 

The following is an interesting article from years ago, but what’s particularly relevant for us is the stuff on Vermillion and Rivera: 

 

Quote

On the morning after a game, Rivera purposely stays out of the trainer's room. He avoids seeing trainer Ryan Vermillion until after he does his press conference at around 12:30 p.m. This way, he doesn't have to try to explain diagnoses to the press while the team is still trying to figure out the severity of the injuries.

 

After Rivera meets the press, he spends up to an hour with Vermillion discussing injured Panthers players. Sometimes, there is a follow-up meeting late in the afternoon. On Tuesday morning, he usually spends another 40 minutes or so with his trainer after most of the injured players have checked in and gone through treatments. On Tuesday afternoon, Vermillion meets with the whole coaching staff to map out the week ahead for injured players.

 

What happens in Vermillion's room can impact many fates.

---

 

Players and coaches aren't always in agreement on whether an injury is serious enough for a player to miss time.

 

When there is gray area, Rivera will talk it through with his player.

 

"Sometimes the player will tell me a little something different from what he tells the trainer," Rivera says. "Most of the guys don't want to let you down. They feel they let you down if they're hurt. ... I think they are more honest with the doctors than they are with the coaches and their teammates because they don't want to let us down."

 

Some players need to be told they can't play under any circumstances. Rivera recalls quarterback Cam Newton lobbying to play in the Panthers' 2014 season opener against the Buccaneers even though he had fractured a rib in a preseason game. Rivera told him he wasn't playing.

 

"He fought me, argued with me. He got mad and stormed out," Rivera says.
"But I didn't play him. Come Sunday, he was cheering everybody on, helping Derek Anderson out. Then we won the game, and he was mad at me again. Sometimes you have to protect them from themselves."

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2749101-inside-the-nfls-secret-world-of-injuries

The last bit here is very relevant. The better the Trainer (or better yet, the more authority given to the Trainer), the less gray area there is and the more power they have to protect the player from themselves and from coaches who want them to play and don’t know any better. 
 

The good sign here is that Rivera acted against his coaching impulses and sat Cam. Which certainly gives us room for hope regarding how he’ll be as an executive. It’s indicative of his ability to separate himself from roles depending on the context (though one can argue that it was more about how Cam looked on the field and how he wouldn’t have helped them win much than anything else). 
 

The bad sign here is that Vermillion either didn’t have the necessary authority or didn’t recognize the severity enough to make that decision himself. You don’t really want to see coaches having to decide that. 
 

Or it’s just a very rare, truly “gray” situation that doesn’t mean a whole lot. 
 

If anyone has the time, read this article written about the Giant’s Head Trainer, Ronnie Barnes, a while back:

 

https://observer.com/2013/09/he-might-be-giants-is-longtime-trainer-ronnie-barnes-the-most-powerful-man-in-new-york-football/

 

Some pertinent bits:

 

Quote

“If they had an organizational chart—a real organizational chart—there’s ownership, and then there’s Ronnie Barnes,” said Phil McConkey, a former Giants wide receiver, and one of many players who consider the trainer a close friend.

 

————————————

 

More often, Mr. Barnes’s concern took the form of protecting players from their own competitive impulses and that of their coaches—interactions that are fraught with the inherent tension between player safety and winning.

Even Bill Parcells didn’t talk back to Barnes.

Joe Morris, a former star Giants running back, recalled sustaining a concussion during a 1985 game in New Orleans. Awareness of the long-term effects of concussions was virtually nonexistent, as was any concussion protocol. But if Mr. Barnes thought a player was concussed, his signature move was to take the player’s helmet and lock it in a trunk.

 

Mr. Morris remembers the conversation between the trainer and coach Bill Parcells. “Bill goes, ‘I need him back in the game.’ And Ronnie just goes, ‘No, he goes into the game when I say he does and when the doc says he does,’” Mr. Morris recounted, still in awe. “Now, you gotta have a set of stones to tell Bill Parcells that.”

 

 

[joeken24]

I get it about Hess. No doubt. My point  was not to differentiate between titles. I was pointing out the Redskins' inability to identify durable players. I get there is a difference between the medical staff and SC coaches. However, if players are not properly conditioned, they tend to become fatigued, eventually injured and ultimately finding themselves in the hands of medical staff that clears them to play when they're not ready or placing them on IR because they can't get the guy back to a healthy state. Bottom line, draft more durable players like a Kerrighan and this team doesn't suffer from attrition every year. It's tiring to have to say what if this guy was on the field every year.

[TSO]

2 hours ago, joeken24 said:

I get it about Hess. No doubt. My point  was not to differentiate between titles. I was pointing out the Redskins' inability to identify durable players. I get there is a difference between the medical staff and SC coaches. However, if players are not properly conditioned, they tend to become fatigued, eventually injured and ultimately finding themselves in the hands of medical staff that clears them to play when they're not ready or placing them on IR because they can't get the guy back to a healthy state. Bottom line, draft more durable players like a Kerrighan and this team doesn't suffer from attrition every year. It's tiring to have to say what if this guy was on the field every year.

Sure, they can all factor into it, as I’ve said.

 

But if we’re going by all the reports and what has come directly from the players themselves, the issues were directed at the ATS almost exclusively. Reporters like Keim and Bashir, among others, have said the players they’ve spoken to unanimously love the Strength & Conditioning Staff and credit them for becoming better athletes during their time in the NFL.
 

As for the Medical Staff, we haven’t heard anyone complaining about the surgeries performed by James Andrews or the work done by Robin West and Inova, but that stuff is way more confidential so who knows. 
 

As for placing an emphasis on durability, I agree with you. We didn’t value durability in general, but Bruce’s overall philosophy of bargain-shopping (to an obsessive degree) killed us in many ways, one of which ended up in acquiring too many guys with injury problems. 

That may have actually worked if we had a great Athletic Training Staff and the facilities to go along with it, but it was just the opposite. Players that were often hurt here, like Orakpo or Laron Landry, went elsewhere and managed to stay healthier for much longer periods of time. 
 

Just another part of that damn good culture we had that really helped our coaches and players compete at the highest of levels. 
 

Hopefully, Vermillion makes a positive impact and we see improvement there. I was honestly slightly disappointed by the numbers @goskins10 posted, but they’re far from comprehensive. And they were still, nonetheless, better than ours on average. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Man I hope Vermillion gets it right. This type of problem is really not something you wanna let hang over an organization. And by extension if I'm Rivera I definitely tell Snyder an improvement of the facilities is absolutely imperative. We've heard that for how long now about the sub par facilities in comparison to other organizations? I think I heard somewhere that its the amount of cold tubs and examining tables amongst other deficiencies.  Part of a culture change is actually providing your players absolutely everything they need.  Would not be surprised if we see some type of capital improvements from the Redskins. 

[fearlessNelms]

What about the lady with the blonde hair who was on the field as much as the players over the past several seasons- is she still with the team?

[spjunkies]

58 minutes ago, fearlessNelms said:

What about the lady with the blonde hair who was on the field as much as the players over the past several seasons- is she still with the team?

 

Most likely still there. I think she's part of the Inova medical team, they sponsor the team facilities at Redskin park. Can't miss out in that extra cash

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[spjunkies]

That feeling when you're proven wrong in the following post 😔

[LD0506]

I gotta tell ya, I don't know enough about Vermillion or now Wilk to even form an opinion, I'm trying to root out whatever I can find to remedy that but some of y'all seem to have a lot more familiarity with that structure and their impact on the players. All I've got to go on is having faith if Rivera is targeting these guys.

 

I know it's probably way too soon to even ask but what effect (if any) might these hires have vis-a-vis Trent playing here again?

[onedrop]

@thesubmittedone

 

The good sign here is that Rivera acted against his coaching impulses and sat Cam. Which certainly gives us room for hope regarding how he’ll be as an executive. It’s indicative of his ability to separate himself from roles depending on the context (though one can argue that it was more about how Cam looked on the field and how he wouldn’t have helped them win much than anything else). 
 

The bad sign here is that Vermillion either didn’t have the necessary authority or didn’t recognize the severity enough to make that decision himself. You don’t really want to see coaches having to decide that. 

 

it could also indicate the level of trust between Vermillion and Rivera. and that Rivera prefers to deliver such news to players directly.

 

on a side note, someone needs to find out if Ryan is related to Texas Jack.

[joeken24]

I’ll take the wait and see approach. Rivera was pretty much fired due to attrition. 

[TSO]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

[TSO]

8 hours ago, spjunkies said:

That feeling when you're proven wrong in the following post 😔

lol, not necessarily. I’m not sure Wilks is replacing her or anything. 
 

But I love his qualifications. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Conn]

About time Snyder felt that way. Why did it take this long? I guess who cares, moving forward. Next is spending SERIOUS cash on the facilities and not tying their existence to a new stadium that might exist a decade from now.