OC - Scott Turner incoming

[SoCalSkins]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t know where to put this, so this is as good a spot as any: 

 

Does anybody know the rules on when and how much players can work with coaches on classroom stuff on the off season?  
 

There are very strict rules as party of the CBA which outline when coaches can do what, but a lot of it is on the field stuff.  I haven’t been able to find (or really spent the time) to research how it applies to off-field work.

 

Could Dwayne show up at 9am every day and spend 5 hours with Turner and/or Zampese now? Or would that be against the rules? 

In phase 1 it’s 90 minutes of working out and no more than 2 hours at facility with coaches meaning 30 minutes of not being in the weight room. Players can workout on own for another 2 hours. In phase 2 it’s 2 hours of working out another 2 hours in the facility 4 hours total. Phase 3 that goes up to 6 hours. This is the phase most people actual call OTAs. Last year we had 9 days. Mini camp is 10 hours per day. Rivera gets an extra veteran mini camp before the draft. Also a rookie minicamp after the draft. 

Very limited time allowed and all “voluntary”. He will probably get less than 30 hours total with coaches in the classroom not counting mini camps and 36 hours on the field and another 24 hours in the weight room with the strength and conditioning. He needs to go live with Norv.  No limits on that.
 

The CBA might be good for seasoned veterans maintaining their bodies and free time but it severely hampers younger player’s growth.

 

https://www.nflpa.com/active-players/off-season-rules

Edited January 17, 2020 by SoCalSkins

[SoCalSkins]

4 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

I know that if I was a 22-23 year old football player with the possibility of either making 30+ Million a year in the near future, or boxing pizzas, I'd tell the NFLPA to eat a and then commence with learning what I need to learn however I need to learn it so I can get my paycheck.

 

 

That’s why most hire private coaches and setup their own workouts with teammates.

[MartinC]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

They’re all worth developing until they’re not. So Haskins will, deservedly so, get his chance. We’ll see if he actually gets developed or not moving forward.

Yeah. But they all don’t have the plan for their development presented as part of the job interview.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Yeah. But they all don’t have the plan for their development presented as part of the job interview.

 

Why wouldn't you do that, regardless? There is a young QB who is a good prospect on the roster. His plan for development is important. You have to plan like the guy is going to do what it takes to be successful. So having a plan for him is completely necessary. 

 

That doesn't mean there aren't contingencies.

 

That's my point.

 

It's absolutely not that they are doing that for a dog and pony show and Haskins can't be the guy. 

 

I believe, and if I were the new HC this would be my thought as well: Haskins is the guy. Unless he really rubs me wrong or there's something I see after I spend some time here and I decide otherwise. But given that he is the guy, I need a plan to develop him into a QB that can help this team win. So you need to have a good plan for him or we can't move forward with you as OC. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

In phase 1 it’s 90 minutes of working out and no more than 2 hours at facility with coaches meaning 30 minutes of not being in the weight room. Players can workout on own for another 2 hours. In phase 2 it’s 2 hours of working out another 2 hours in the facility 4 hours total. Phase 3 that goes up to 6 hours. This is the phase most people actual call OTAs. Last year we had 9 days. Mini camp is 10 hours per day. Rivera gets an extra veteran mini camp before the draft. Also a rookie minicamp after the draft. 

Very limited time allowed and all “voluntary”. He will probably get less than 30 hours total with coaches in the classroom not counting mini camps and 36 hours on the field and another 24 hours in the weight room with the strength and conditioning. He needs to go live with Norv.  No limits on that.
 

The CBA might be good for seasoned veterans maintaining their bodies and free time but it severely hampers younger player’s growth.

 

https://www.nflpa.com/active-players/off-season-rules

So given, this, if I was Dwayne, and I REALLY wanted to show how invested I was, I would take the playbook (assuming one exists) and I would "hire" Norv as my personal off-season QB coach, since he's not employed by the team, and I would mental drill the hell out of it so by the time OTAs and mini-camp roll around, I could spit out the terminology like it was nothing.  And if you're having dinner with Norv, and his son HAPPENS to swing by, it's just a kid visiting his dad, right?   

 

If I couldn't get Norv, I would get somebody else who knows that system a bit.  My assumption is Scott's system's terminology is based on Norv's system's terminology.  

 

Though, regardless of method, I'd make sure on day 1 I knew absolutely everything I could, had it all committed to memory, so the "install" was simply review, not learning.

 

I have no idea if Dwayne has that level of commitment.  I hope he does.

 

 

[RabidFan]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So given, this, if I was Dwayne, and I REALLY wanted to show how invested I was, I would take the playbook (assuming one exists) and I would "hire" Norv as my personal off-season QB coach, since he's not employed by the team, and I would mental drill the hell out of it so by the time OTAs and mini-camp roll around, I could spit out the terminology like it was nothing.  And if you're having dinner with Norv, and his son HAPPENS to swing by, it's just a kid visiting his dad, right?   

 

If I couldn't get Norv, I would get somebody else who knows that system a bit.  My assumption is Scott's system's terminology is based on Norv's system's terminology.  

 

Though, regardless of method, I'd make sure on day 1 I knew absolutely everything I could, had it all committed to memory, so the "install" was simply review, not learning.

 

I have no idea if Dwayne has that level of commitment.  I hope he does.

 

 

 

All great things but what percent of young kids would do that?  I hope he does but if he isn't doing what the coaches have already asked, we'll see a vet get a shot.  I know the bearded Haarvard grad Fitzmagic could pick up the system quickly.

[SoCalSkins]

14 minutes ago, RabidFan said:

 

All great things but what percent of young kids would do that?  I hope he does but if he isn't doing what the coaches have already asked, we'll see a vet get a shot.  I know the bearded Haarvard grad Fitzmagic could pick up the system quickly.

Kirk did it with Jon Gruden. It’s a smart move.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, RabidFan said:

All great things but what percent of young kids would do that?  I hope he does but if he isn't doing what the coaches have already asked, we'll see a vet get a shot.  I know the bearded Haarvard grad Fitzmagic could pick up the system quickly.

I dunno, some percentage though.  The ones driven to be really good at whatever they are doing will do it. 

 

I set a goal when I graduated college to be the youngest member of my firm to be promoted to Principal, which in that firm was essentially a manager. It was a big promotion, something celebrated in the firm as you took your journey from staff into management.   Typically that happened between the ages of 28 (on the really young side) and 32.  If you worked for 8-10 years and didn't make it, you weren't going to make it.  I did it by 26 by working my ass off.  If Dwayne put the amount of effort into learning this offense I did (between 60-70 hours a week minimum from the time I took the job), then he could do it.

 

I don't think I was smarter than the other folks in my "class" (ie: folks hired around the same time.)  But none of them could touch my work ethic, and that's what got me ahead.  I just out-worked the competition, essentially.  

 

The top guys all do it.  Peyton was notorious for his study habits from day 1.  Belichick said Brady improved more than any other player between year 1 and 2 and he was a backup to Bledsoe at the time.  

 

It's not everybody.  You have to be wired differently.  But there are folks who are wired that way in all walks of life.  I see it in my industry all the time.  

 

[RabidFan]

Kirk is 9 years older and was drafted in the 4th round.  Plus we know he's meticulous when it comes to his daily minutes schedule.

 

Dwayne had a superb year in college for and was a Heisman finalist.  He's very entitled and jury is out for me in regards to his maturity and humility.  Ron will find the truth either way. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Kirk did it with Jon Gruden. It’s a smart move.

He did? I actually don't remember that.  

 

That was smart.  I assume Jay's offense was based on Jon's terminology. 

 

I wonder if after working with Jon, Kirk went back to Jay and was like, "Damn, I got stuck with the wrong Gruden..."

 

Just now, RabidFan said:

Kirk is 9 years older and was drafted in the 4th round.  Plus we know he's meticulous when it comes to his daily minutes schedule.

 

Dwayne had a superb year in college for and was a Heisman finalist.  He's very entitled and jury is out for me in regards to his maturity and humility.  Ron will find the truth either way. 

Kirk wouldn't have been 9 years older when he did it though.  It would have to have been in 2014 or 2015.  So he might have been a year or two older.

 

Brady might not have hired anybody, but he put in an insane amount of work between year 1 and 2, and he wasn't the starter, and wasn't even projected to compete with Bledsoe.  

 

Typically, to be the best at your field, you have to have the physical/mental tools AND a ridiculous work ethic.  If you don't have either, you tap out at "very good" but can't get to great or the best.  

[SoCalSkins]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So given, this, if I was Dwayne, and I REALLY wanted to show how invested I was, I would take the playbook (assuming one exists) and I would "hire" Norv as my personal off-season QB coach, since he's not employed by the team, and I would mental drill the hell out of it so by the time OTAs and mini-camp roll around, I could spit out the terminology like it was nothing.  And if you're having dinner with Norv, and his son HAPPENS to swing by, it's just a kid visiting his dad, right?   

 

That works when everyone is on the same page and winking. If it goes south and the player feels betrayed if he’s not the starter or whatever reason then the story changes and it becomes an NFLPA grievance with potential fines and penalties. Seahawks and Ravens have been docked for OTA violations before. I doubt Scott would entertain doing it.

[Est.1974]

The development plan for Haskins might involve sitting behind a vet for a couple of season. Highly unlikely, not to be discounted. Several possibilities at this stage.

 

Cant see us spending big in FA then flunking behind an undercooked QB. Not saying that is what he is, but there will be a plan on offence that become clear pretty soon.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

That works when everyone is on the same page and winking. If it goes south and the player feels betrayed if he’s not the starter or whatever reason then the story changes and it becomes an NFLPA grievance with potential fines and penalties. Seahawks and Ravens have been docked for OTA violations before. I doubt Scott would entertain doing it.

I was kindof joking about that bit.  

 

As an aside, Norv had a huge white alaskan husky when he was here as HC.  He lived in the same neighborhood as a friend of mine, and I saw either him or his son (now I'm guessing it was Scott) walking the dog fairly often when I was over there. 

 

Maybe Dwayne likes dogs?  And they all just chat about dogs?  Who knows

 

[SoCalSkins]

13 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

The development plan for Haskins might involve sitting behind a vet for a couple of season. Highly unlikely, not to be discounted. Several possibilities at this stage.

 

Cant see us spending big in FA then flunking behind an undercooked QB. Not saying that is what he is, but there will be a plan on offence that become clear pretty soon.

 

 

Great coaches tend to focus on competition and accountability. The LSU coach, Pete Carroll,  Saban, Urban Meyer and Bellichick all have a similar formula.

In college it’s tell the truth Monday meaning you evaluate your previous performance with brutal honesty.
 

Competition Tuesday where you practice harder than the game and best players get to play based on performance. 

 

No turnover Wednesday where they practice ball security and install the game plan.

 

No repeat Thursday where the expectation is flawless execution.

 

Focus Friday where there is a ton of film study of the opponent.
 

It's all about a culture of competition, performance, accountability and what have you done lately. 
 

I think Ron has a similar mentality. He’s not going to shy away from bringing in competition at every position and being brutally honest about performance. There are going to be options at every position. There is a rumor we are going after JPP even though we have Kerrigan, Sweat and likely drafting Chase Young. No one is above hard competition.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by SoCalSkins

[Conn]

Would love to bring in Fitz to compete with Haskins. But I suspect the Dolphins hold onto him as a bridge and given the way he energized that team despite the FO setting up the tank job. 

[NeverSurrender]

16 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Great coaches tend to focus on competition and accountability. The LSU coach, Pete Carroll,  Saban, Urban Meyer and Bellichick all have a similar formula.

In college it’s tell the truth Monday meaning you evaluate your previous performance with brutal honesty.
 

Competition Tuesday where you practice harder than the game and best players get to play based on performance. 

 

No turnover Wednesday where they practice ball security and install the game plan.

 

No repeat Thursday where the expectation is flawless execution.

 

Focus Friday where there is a ton of film study of the opponent.
 

It's all about a culture of competition, performance, accountability and what have you done lately. 
 

I think Ron has a similar mentality. He’s not going to shy away from bringing in competition at every position and being brutally honest about performance. There are going to be options at every position. There is a rumor we are going after JPP even though we have Kerrigan, Sweat and likely drafting Chase Young. No one is above hard competition.

 

 

This is exactly what we need.  Im so tired of seeing player that stink it up every week. IE (Josh Norman, MN).  We have needed accountability for a long time. 

[FuriousD]

24 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

The development plan for Haskins might involve sitting behind a vet for a couple of season. Highly unlikely, not to be discounted. Several possibilities at this stage.

 

Alex Smith is under contract for a LOT of money with very little chance he plays in 2020.  The least Smith can do to earn some of that money is take Haskins under his wing this off-season and tutor him.  It's a new playbook for Smith as well, after all!  As far as it's possible to do so, the FO should insist that these two spend gobs of time joined at the hip, going page by page, practicing study techniques and learning what it is to be a PRO.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, FuriousD said:

 

Alex Smith is under contract for a LOT of money with very little chance he plays in 2020.  The least Smith can do to earn some of that money is take Haskins under his wing this off-season and tutor him.  It's a new playbook for Smith as well, after all!  As far as it's possible to do so, the FO should insist that these two spend gobs of time joined at the hip, going page by page, practicing study techniques and learning what it is to be a PRO.

Smith will be farmed off and we’ll cash in that 12mil insurance policy if he retires.

 

Our new coaching staff on offence will need another QB in house.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Would love to bring in Fitz to compete with Haskins. But I suspect the Dolphins hold onto him as a bridge and given the way he energized that team despite the FO setting up the tank job. 

They are sticking pins in Fitz  voodoo Dolls in the FO down there.  He completely screwed up their plans.  

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, RabidFan said:

 

All great things but what percent of young kids would do that?  I hope he does but if he isn't doing what the coaches have already asked, we'll see a vet get a shot.  I know the bearded Haarvard grad Fitzmagic could pick up the system quickly.

Fitz is still under contract with Miami next year. 

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Fitz is still under contract with Miami next year. 

Drew Brees and Tom Brady are not on the other hand

 

j/k

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Drew Brees and Tom Brady are not on the other hand

 

j/k

If Brees or Brady wanted to come to DC, I’d be all about it.

 

Rivers is much more likely of the old/good QBs.  Norv was HC and Rivera DC for a few years in San Diego with him, and they had success together

 

As much as I like Haskins, and I do, Rivers takes the ceiling of next years team up 3 or 4 games.  Short term fix. But would be interesting.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 hours ago, RabidFan said:

 

All great things but what percent of young kids would do that?  I hope he does but if he isn't doing what the coaches have already asked, we'll see a vet get a shot.  I know the bearded Haarvard grad Fitzmagic could pick up the system quickly.

 

It doesn't have to be his idea...it can be something discussed and offered to him by the guys in charge. Optional, of course, but it could be their idea and highly encouraged. 

[BleedBNG]

 

 

[FrFan]