OC - Scott Turner incoming

[Panninho]

11 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

I argued that if KOC was the hire it was due to meddling. Albert Breer stated that Turner was the target from the beginning. Meaning Ron didn’t want KOC from the start. If he was kept it would have been because of meddling which is 100% accurate.

 

Dude, just stop. Your logic is so inherently flawed it's absurd. Just because result XY occured doesn't mean it was caused by action XY. Correlation is not causation.

 

So if KOC stayed it could also have been because Turner turned down the job or because KOC was extremely impressive in his interviews. All reports indicate that this was not a power move by Rivera but that he simply preferred Turner while keeping an open mind and interviewing other candidates. If at all this proves your theory to be wrong. Because Rivera de facto has full authority over hiring, because he was able to fire KOC and hire Turner. So we know this as a fact now. If he would have kept KOC it had to be solely his decision and no owner meddling.

 

[Llevron]

5 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

Apparently I had a good grasp of KOC...

 

The rumors were true 

[fearlessNelms]

Okay, so Norv's son is our OC and Zampese's son is our QB coach. Zampese's dad worked with Gibbs in San Diego on Coryell's staff in the late 70's and Turner's dad worked with Zampese in LA years ago.

 

Our O is going to be rooted from the Coryell system and other than Coryell himself, nobody ran the system better than Gibbs, who put his own twist on it with a power run game with Riggins.

 

Hearing how Gibbs was instrumental in getting Rivera to come here and hearing Rivera say how when he went to Gibbs' house to talk to him about taking the job, Gibbs was drawing up plays, it's plain to see- Gibbs is our offensive coordinator on the down low.

Edited January 8, 2020 by fearlessNelms

[ntotoro]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I stopped my Rocky at 2.  

I pity the fool who didn’t watch 3.

[ntotoro]

5 hours ago, Vanguard said:

Right, and consistency paired with ability is what you had with OConell and Haskins.  Accounted for two of the three wins.  But I’m not arguing it anymore.

In all fairness, that sample window was so narrow, I don’t even know if a stiff breeze would get through it. Haskins went from just plain awful to literally 1.5 games where he looked like an NFL starter. Nothing more.

[Bunny Kelly]

While the first half of the season wasn't good with Haskins I'm going to put that on his HC not wanting him. Haskins showed he was a quick learner late in the season with the way he remedied his mistakes so I'm hopefully in his ability to adapt to a new playbook

[Probos]

On 1/2/2020 at 8:18 PM, Koolblue13 said:

Ok Boomer

 

Great come back bro -- super creative,...good job!

Edited January 8, 2020 by Probos

[skinzplay]

6 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Those two tweets by Reid are reflective of the laughs and head scratching around the league about the Washington infatuation with O'Connell. I've been saying it for a very long time. He should book his flight down to Mobile for the Senior Bowl right now so he can make the rounds and spend his time marketing himself to coaches instead of spending so much time posturing with the local media. The charade about Chip Kelly, I've already mentioned. Someone ask O'Connell for a copy of his resume. How does he list his affiliation with the 49ers in 2011? I would like to see that. He wasn't even officially on that staff. And now he tried to get everyone to believe he had all of these options, just like he had the naive local scribes feeding on the pablum about Kelly wanting him as OC at UCLA. It's all laughable. But like I said, I wish the kid well. Maybe he'll land a QB Coach gig in Detroit or someplace that'll be looking for one in the off-season. He's not going to be anybody's OC in 2020.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Andre The Giant said:

I actually think this is good news.  Ron’s not tying his wagon to anyone that doesn’t work hard.  Haskins has to earn it, as it should be.

 

Snyder’s tired of rebuilds.  He’s tired of empty stadiums.  He wants to win.  Ron gets to make the call.

 

I am ok with keeping the dude on edge.   I think he has a chance to the be the real goods but the one thing that bothers me about him is his work ethic is continually maligned really from everyone who covers the team based on what's they've heard.  So sticking with the Rocky theme we got kicking on the thread.  Haskins might need a Mickey type to keep him going.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

Its very possible Haskins was emulating the energy of the organization around him, too. Its hard for a new guy to come in and see everyone not giving a **** and really give a ****. Im a great employee but put me on a team where no one is doing their job with zero accountability and watch me find a way to just get paid and get by. 

 

Or he could just be lazy. Whatever yall wanna believe. Truth is your perception in 2020 anyway. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Its very possible Haskins was emulating the energy of the organization around him, too. Its hard for a new guy to come in and see everyone not giving a **** and really give a ****. Im a great employee but put me on a team where no one is doing their job with zero accountability and watch me find a way to just get paid and get by. 

 

Or he could just be lazy. Whatever yall wanna believe. Truth is your perception in 2020 anyway. 

 

It's not want i want to believe.   I want to believe everyone of our players is an All Pro model of perfection.   I've said before I met the guy and really like him. I actually defended his personality many times on the Haskins thread.    I like his talent, too.   I hate having to be boxed in to an all or nothing thing about any player where you either think a dude is 100% great and don't believe any outside noise about him having flaws or you are 100% out.  When you evaluate draft prospects, its not you either love the dude completely or you are out, etc.  Before the draft, it's usually about discussion about here are some good things and here are some things to watch out for on a player.  It's the same naturally for players on your own roster. 

 

I've heard enough about Haskins from too many people talking about him to converge on this. It's everywhere including even from Keim who loved the dude at Ohio State and hates to dish out any negatives.   Talented as heck.  Nice guy.  But at the moment it's been said by many who have done so many times that he doesn't have a great work ethic and he supposedly was like that from the jump and albeit improved some at the end on that front but not enough for them to feel rest assured.  I am gathering Rivera wants to keep the dude on edge some and bring out his best.  I think being pushed by Rivera and work hounds types like Peterson should help on that front.  I wouldn't guess he's lazy but to play QB you typically need a killer work ethic and everyone who covers the team has said they've heard complaints on that front -- along with some other maturity issues which they haven't been specific on.   

 

But he IMO has the key component for success which is mega talent.  I think Rivera will be good for him.   

Edited January 8, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's not want i want to believe.   I want to believe everyone of our players is an All Pro model of perfection.   I've said before I met the guy and really like him. I actually defended his personality many times on the Haskins thread.    I like his talent, too.   I hate having to be boxed in to an all or nothing thing about any player where you either think a dude is 100% great and don't believe any outside noise about him having flaws or you are 100% out.  When you evaluate draft prospects, its not you either love the dude completely or you are out, etc.  Before the draft, it's usually about discussion about here are some good things and here are some things to watch out for on a player.  It's same naturally for players on your own roster. 

 

I've heard enough about Haskins from too many people talking about him to converge on this. It's everywhere even from Keim who loved the dude at Ohio State and hates to dish out any negatives.   Talented as heck.  Nice guy.  But at the moment he doesn't have a great work ethic and he supposedly was like that from the jump and albeit improved some at the end on that front but not enough for them to feel rest assured.  I am gathering Rivera wants to keep the dude on edge some and bring out his best.  I think being pushed by Rivera and work hounds types like Peterson should help on that front.  I wouldn't guess he's lazy but to play QB you typically need a killer work ethic and everyone who covers the team has said they've heard complaints on that front. along with some other maturity issues which they haven't been specific on.   

 

But he IMO has the key component for success which is mega talent.  I think Rivera will be good for him.   

 

I dont know what the dudes deal is/was. I will hope for improvement regardless. I like him too honestly. Im always rooting for a brutha unless they give me a reason not to. And Hes a Redskins QB that is kinda from the area so I dig that. I could make excuses for him all day and I do think there is some validity to the idea he didnt want to be here, he knew we didnt want him here and he was discouraged early. A lack of maturity would lead a kid in that situation to lose confidence or not give his all. And he is a kid, and I do think he lacks maturity (hes a kid). But regardless I like him and I think hes super talented like you do. We agree on this guy all the way it sounds. I do think Ron is the type of coach he needs. I think football is hard and motivation is hard. Having someone like that to help motivate you is essential. And if he literally couldnt do it, he wouldn't be in this position right now. So im excited to see what happens. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

[YourWish is MyCommanders]

So, what you’re saying here is.....Rivera teased KOC with a position on his staff...

Does this make him a KOC tease?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

All this O'Connell talk I figure has to have a bottom line.  I like Rivera a lot and I trust him. But I also know relationships are huge in the business -- comfort, etc.  It's in my business too which is one where specific staffs are created for specific jobs so I can relate.  So my point is Rivera moving on from O'Connell isn't IMO the definitive exclamation point on O'Connell's career.  Just like it isn't proof that coaches like Tomsula stunk because he's leaving apparently to Dallas or name that departing coach.

 

To me if the debate is:

 

A.  O'Connell is overrated -- his career isn't going anywhere, we will laugh about this later

B.  O'Connell is an up and comer -- we will be talking about him like Lafleur, Kyle, McVay 

 

The verdict isn't in on either point.  It has to play out.    The idea that some say good riddance doesn't faze me, the same was said about Kyle by plenty.  McVay was criticized here by some.  Lafleur wasn't even a thought by most one way or another. 

 

The movie hasn't been played out.  Will see.   I don't have a strong position one way or another.  I was cool with Rivera getting rid of O'Connell or whomever he wanted to get rid of.  But ideally I wanted him to stay because Haskins flat out said he wanted him to stay.  But with him going, I am not sweating it.  But I don't take it as a victory dance as some proof that he isn't good at his job. 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsmania123]

Can't disagree with what RR is doing.  Being a HC is hard enough in the NFL.  To be able to align yourself with guys you trust, that trust you with a shared vision is a fortunate way to begin your new gig has HC of a mediocre team.  He has quite the task ahead.

 

I thought Haskins really improved down the stretch and he went from potential bust in my mind to, wow this kid is starting to get it.  I am certain RR is going to give him every opportunity to succeed. He seems like a very fair man.  I am more excited for the season ahead then I have been for many, many years.  

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Wrong thread 

Edited January 8, 2020 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Can't disagree with what RR is doing.  Being a HC is hard enough in the NFL.  To be able to align yourself with guys you trust, that trust you with a shared vision is a fortunate way to begin your new gig has HC of a mediocre team.  He has quite the task ahead.

 

Some have a negative connotation of a HC hiring people they are comfortable with because of the Tampa connections from the past.    But by and large, I get it.  Yeah I don't love passing over a Wade Phillips for Joe Berry.  But we haven't seen those types of moves at least not, yet. 

 

Keim and Sheehan are talking about this some right now on 980.  They are saying this feels much different from even Shanahan who did keep some stalwarts at Redskins Park, etc.  Rivera wants to clean house.  I don't think its because all these people stink, some might, but I can understand he wants to wipe out the status quo there and start fresh.  It would make sense it would want to start fresh with people he already knows and trusts. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

My thoughts RE: Rivera hires (copy/pasted from another thread):

 

 Rivera hiring all people he is familiar with to install his schemes while he sets the stage is INCREDIBLY smart.

 

If we need a new OC in a year or two, or DC, and we ONLY consider Carolina people, I'll be more concerned. But in order to get his stuff in the building and entrenched, I'm okay with him hiring people he personally trusts. It's what I would do.

 

After systems are up, you can find the best candidates as they become available and indoctrinate them into the damned good culture. (shots fired.)

 

But it's tough to bring in too many "new" guys and have the organization run in your vision because there are too many different backgrounds.

 

Jack Del Rio was his "new guy" splash. Who is a veteran with head coach experience. 

[Chump Bailey]

Quote

This quote from Newton about Turner: "There's no greater feeling than knowing you've got somebody that is coaching you that has your best interest in mind... Scott is just still one of those people, I know I can go to him for brutally honest advice, and that's the key." That's quite an endorsement from a former MVP.

 

 

https://riggosrag.com/2020/01/08/redskins-five-reasons-optimistic-scott-turner-hire/6/

[SoCalSkins]

4 hours ago, Panninho said:

Dude, just stop. Your logic is so inherently flawed it's absurd. Just because result XY occured doesn't mean it was caused by action XY. Correlation is not causation.

 

So if KOC stayed it could also have been because Turner turned down the job or because KOC was extremely impressive in his interviews. All reports indicate that this was not a power move by Rivera but that he simply preferred Turner while keeping an open mind and interviewing other candidates. If at all this proves your theory to be wrong. Because Rivera de facto has full authority over hiring, because he was able to fire KOC and hire Turner. So we know this as a fact now. If he would have kept KOC it had to be solely his decision and no owner meddling.

 

 

incorrect. Ron never wanted KOC. He would have never hired him as I stated. Albert Breer confirmed it.  Those are the facts. Therefore starting with those facts and KOC still was retained, it would have to involve meddling. Nothing about that argument is flawed.
 

You either can’t handle being wrong or me being right or are jealous of genius or a combination of those. Too bad. I was 100% vindicated. So in the future just accept my words as gospel. Thanks. 😂
 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by SoCalSkins

[Alexa]

9 hours ago, Andre The Giant said:

I actually think this is good news.  Ron’s not tying his wagon to anyone that doesn’t work hard.  Haskins has to earn it, as it should be.

 

Snyder’s tired of rebuilds.  He’s tired of empty stadiums.  He wants to win.  Ron gets to make the call.

Screw Snyder. I will never trust that man. He has no one to blame but himself. He is the number one reason the stadium is empty. I give it a year before he starts undermining someone. I'm sure he and Scott Turner won't be best buds. 

[purbeast]

18 hours ago, MartinC said:

You are right - having a change of OC after your rookie year is not fatal and we should not be freaking out about it. But continuity in a scheme IS important.

Continuity in a scheme that had a team 4-20 in their past 24 games.

 

Yeah sounds really important.

Edited January 8, 2020 by purbeast

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

I dont know what the dudes deal is/was. I will hope for improvement regardless. I like him too honestly. Im always rooting for a brutha unless they give me a reason not to. And Hes a Redskins QB that is kinda from the area so I dig that. I could make excuses for him all day and I do think there is some validity to the idea he didnt want to be here, he knew we didnt want him here and he was discouraged early. A lack of maturity would lead a kid in that situation to lose confidence or not give his all. And he is a kid, and I do think he lacks maturity (hes a kid). But regardless I like him and I think hes super talented like you do. We agree on this guy all the way it sounds. I do think Ron is the type of coach he needs. I think football is hard and motivation is hard. Having someone like that to help motivate you is essential. And if he literally couldnt do it, he wouldn't be in this position right now. So im excited to see what happens. 

 

The way I look at it is all the young QBs who have been drafted here have had issues.  That's natural.    You are young and you are learning and growing.   And who doesn't have flaws?  My take on Haskins is actually similar to what it was about Kirk.  I don't mean they are similar players with similar flaws but I liked Kirk as a rookie and beyond but I had concerns about the dude too because those concerns had a repeated theme that came from source after source talking about it.

 

For Kirk I recall there were some concerns about his confidence and his proclivity for turnovers with some saying they both go hand in hand  I recall the stories about him trashing the soda machine after a bad performance and having a hard time bucking up after a bad performance.  I recall Larry Michael saying he looked spooked before one of his starts. On and on.  I bet some of the stories were embellished and some might not have been true.  But there were too many of them from too many places to just assume they were all made up.  So when I posted early on about Kirk I was somewhat all over the place about him.  I wasn't totally sold but not unsold either.  I liked the flashes but wanted to see those concerns put to rest.  For me I turned consistently positive about Kirk in 2015 when in my book he performed well over the full season.  But before that I was back and forth. 

 

For Haskins, he's got some obvious talent.  And he has some good moments.  And like Kirk, I liked what I've seen about him as a person when I've had a chance to see it in a small sample close up.   Like with Kirk (or the other young Qbs we've had) there have been some common themes about his development -- some good, some bad.  And I've heard enough of the good and bad which has been really consistent on both fronts to believe it.  Not because i want to believe it.  But I've heard too many variations on the same theme -- different anecdotes, etc from different people.  But that's not just on the bad stuff but also the good stuff.

 

Haskins seems like a really confident dude (which is great), likable, good guy.  But they want to see him act more professional (this they haven't elaborated on) and work harder.  So I think Rivera is likely going to keep him on edge some to push the grinding.   And I like it.  I don't buy Haskins or any young QB is some model of perfection.  I want a coach who tries to bring the best out of his guys.  Everyone has their thing so to speak.  I wasn't as down on Jay as most were.  I sort of could have taken or left Jay more or less.  But I don't get the impression that Haskins' habits had anything to do with Jay.  But I take it from a different angle, I think some players need more of an external driver of their motivation.  Sometimes the best drive is fear.  Jay doesn't strike me that type.  Too easy going and nice.  Some think Jay hated Haskins but it was Jay who was laying on the thick complements on Haskins.  Jay doesn't strike me as a motivate by fear keep guys on edge type.  Rivera on the other hand seems to have that in him.  And that might bring out the best in Haskins.  Will see.  I am excited, too.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Skinsinparadise