Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Chae needs to be full energy full time. I got on him last game for loafing when he should have been pursuing. He seems to take plays off. But I do love it when he gets off the edge and snags. RB from behind. Right now to me he is not what I thought we were getting as a generational talent. But I disagreed with the pick in the beginning....I think. To lazy to go look.....think I called him a possible Bosworth. Hope he gets better. 9 sacks in 30 games? Would we consider that elite?

 

Really good rookie year.  Bad 2/3 3rds a season sophomore season.  Then a severe injury. 

 

This season 4 sacks, 18 hurries, 27 pressures.  On pace for 14 sacks.  Will see if it plays out.  But now that its water under the bridge, I don't care about his post rookie season stuff, injury, if he has a big season this year.

 

Having said that, I'd still trade him or Sweat before the trading deadline, whichever player gives them the best trade capital.  Clearly paying big money and draft capital for the D line hasn't produced to make it worth it. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Really good rookie year.  Bad 2/3 3rds a season sophomore season.  Then a severe injury. 

 

This season 4 sacks, 18 hurries, 27 pressures.  On pace for 14 sacks.  Will see if it plays out.  But now that its water under the bridge, I don't care about his post rookie season stuff, injury, if he has a big season this year.

 

Having said that, I'd still trade him or Sweat before the trading deadline, whichever player gives them the best trade capital.  Clearly paying big money and draft capital for the D line hasn't produced to make it worth it. 

 

The only thing I'm skeptical about with Chase is how that knee will hold up moving forward.  I'm still 100% sold on his talent and make up.  He's probably the only truly elite player on our roster, and I would want to give the next regime a big leg up on their rebuild with a guy like him.  He's a scheme independent talent, and his energy could be harnessed for leadership by a younger coaching staff that doesn't **** list players for having personality like Rivera's has.  I'd probably keep him since we have cap space to spare and can afford to eat his contract if he gets hurt again.

 

Sweat is the one I'd deal.  He's 27 and probably reaching his peak as a player.  He's very good, but I don't think he will be dominant, and this kind of feels like our chance to sell high on him.  That said, if we can't find something for him before the deadline, keeping him and extending him is still far better than letting him walk for nothing.

[tmandoug1]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Having said that, I'd still trade him or Sweat before the trading deadline, whichever player gives them the best trade capital.  Clearly paying big money and draft capital for the D line hasn't produced to make it worth it. 

I agree with this completely. Especially if Harris conducts a complete evaluation and goes in the direction of new FO and new Coaching staff. Which I assume he will want to. Trade some guys in skill positions that frontrunner teams need to make a push. Get best value and start anew next year. I was under the impression this would be an evaluation period at the beginning of the season anyway. Be fun to watch the business side unfold this year and next.

[formerly4skins]

21 hours ago, MrJL said:

I don't know if we've adjusted the scheme or what but the middle of the field has been wide open behind Allen and Payne

 

Given the LB situation, the 2nd level of the defense is a vacant wasteland...there for the taking. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

48 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

The only thing I'm skeptical about with Chase is how that knee will hold up moving forward.  I'm still 100% sold on his talent and make up.  He's probably the only truly elite player on our roster, and I would want to give the next regime a big leg up on their rebuild with a guy like him.  He's a scheme independent talent, and his energy could be harnessed for leadership by a younger coaching staff that doesn't **** list players for having personality like Rivera's has.  I'd probably keep him since we have cap space to spare and can afford to eat his contract if he gets hurt again.

 

Sweat is the one I'd deal.  He's 27 and probably reaching his peak as a player.  He's very good, but I don't think he will be dominant, and this kind of feels like our chance to sell high on him.  That said, if we can't find something for him before the deadline, keeping him and extending him is still far better than letting him walk for nothing.

 

I'm not convinced Sweat has reached "very good" status.  

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

The only thing I'm skeptical about with Chase is how that knee will hold up moving forward.  I'm still 100% sold on his talent and make up.  He's probably the only truly elite player on our roster, and I would want to give the next regime a big leg up on their rebuild with a guy like him.  He's a scheme independent talent, and his energy could be harnessed for leadership by a younger coaching staff that doesn't **** list players for having personality like Rivera's has.  I'd probably keep him since we have cap space to spare and can afford to eat his contract if he gets hurt again.

 

Sweat is the one I'd deal.  He's 27 and probably reaching his peak as a player.  He's very good, but I don't think he will be dominant, and this kind of feels like our chance to sell high on him.  That said, if we can't find something for him before the deadline, keeping him and extending him is still far better than letting him walk for nothing.

 

I am ok with dealing Sweat.  I am more a Chase guy among the two.  My thing is i doubt they keep them both and I don't want to lose one for nothing.

[Anselmheifer]

It’s going to be hard to get much without them being under contract. 
 

This might be a hot take, but I might trade Jonathan Allen during the draft, or the run up. He’s 28, so a little older than the other guys, respected around the league, probably has a good bit of value, and opens up some cap room. I feel like Allen hasn’t been as impactful this season. The bears were running through huge holes right up the guy for bit yards. I’m used to seeing breakdowns in pass defense, but I’m not used to seeing us getting chewed up right up the middle. 
 

With regards to Chase, is there anywhere we can see the number pressures for each of our DL for the season?

[Skinsinparadise]

from some blog that didn't let me cut and paste

[Anselmheifer]

Ok, per pro football referwnce:

 

Chase Young: 4 games 3 sacks 15 pressures 3 QBKD 8 hurries 

 

Montez Sweat: 5 games 4.5 sacks 14 pressures 6 QBKD 2 hurries 

 

Daron Payne: 5 games 1 sack 7 pressures 3 QBKD 3 hurries

 

Jonathan Allen: 5 games 3 sacks 7 pressures 2 QBKD 2 hurries 

[Warhead36]

10 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

It’s going to be hard to get much without them being under contract. 
 

This might be a hot take, but I might trade Jonathan Allen during the draft, or the run up. He’s 28, so a little older than the other guys, respected around the league, probably has a good bit of value, and opens up some cap room. I feel like Allen hasn’t been as impactful this season. The bears were running through huge holes right up the guy for bit yards. I’m used to seeing breakdowns in pass defense, but I’m not used to seeing us getting chewed up right up the middle. 
 

With regards to Chase, is there anywhere we can see the number pressures for each of our DL for the season?

I think Allen is playing through an injury. In years past the run defense falls off dramatically when Allen gets hurt or has to leave mid game or something.

[MrJL]

Denver got any decent LB?

 

Of course I'd rather look to see if anyone's looking at trading some OL

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:07 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with dealing Sweat.  I am more a Chase guy among the two.  My thing is i doubt they keep them both and I don't want to lose one for nothing.

I'd actually be ok losing both for nothing.  Sunk cost.  

 

If the season is over, I'd trade both. The Trading Deadline is Tuesday October 31st.  We have 3 more games before then: @Atlanta, @Giants, vs. Eagles. This defense doesn't function the way it's been put together.  It's not as good as the sum of it's pieces.  Blow the whole thing up.  

 

We're 2-3.  If we're not 4-4 or better (I can't imagine the better at the moment), I'm trading everybody at the deadline for future picks.  Literally everybody who is tradable, I'm trading.  

 

Players who are not tradable due to contract: 

Allen

Payne

McLaurin

Curtis Samuel (Amazingly would carry a $17m dead cap hit)

 

That's it.  That's the list.  If you can get a 5th round pick for Jamin Davis? Do it.  Trade both Sweat and Young.  Trade Fuller. Somebody willing to take a flier on Curl for a 4th?  Fine.  Fire sale.  Everything must go.  Let's have 47 draft picks next year.  Just start all the way over.  But, maybe with a QB in house who can play.

 

And we'd have $130m in cap room.

 

Glorious days.  

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'd actually be ok losing both for nothing.  Sunk cost.  

 

If the season is over, I'd trade both. The Trading Deadline is Tuesday October 31st.  We have 3 more games before then: @Atlanta, @Giants, vs. Eagles. This defense doesn't function the way it's been put together.  It's not as good as the sum of it's pieces.  Blow the whole thing up.  

 

We're 2-3.  If we're not 4-4 or better (I can't imagine the better at the moment), I'm trading everybody at the deadline for future picks.  Literally everybody who is tradable, I'm trading.  

 

Players who are not tradable due to contract: 

Allen

Payne

McLaurin

Curtis Samuel (Amazingly would carry a $17m dead cap hit)

 

That's it.  That's the list.  If you can get a 5th round pick for Jamin Davis? Do it.  Trade both Sweat and Young.  Trade Fuller. Somebody willing to take a flier on Curl for a 4th?  Fine.  Fire sale.  Everything must go.  Let's have 47 draft picks next year.  Just start all the way over.  But, maybe with a QB in house who can play.

 

And we'd have $130m in cap room.

 

Glorious days.  

 

The problem with a coach centric model in a win or bust year, Ron would play even for 8-9 versus 6-11 so won't trade anyone.  It's one of many reasons we don't want the next coach to have that kind of power.

[Riggo#44]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The problem with a coach centric model in a win or bust year, Ron would play even for 8-9 versus 6-11 so won't trade anyone.  It's one of many reasons we don't want the next coach to have that kind of power.

Even still, I'm not sure I'd want Rivera to make those kinds of trades. We would get pennies on the dollar.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Even still, I'm not sure I'd want Rivera to make those kinds of trades. We would get pennies on the dollar.

 

Probably but i don't want to lose 1 or both pass rushers for nothing.

 

As for others, not sure I'd want to trade because I don't see trade value.  Both Chase and Sweat are having good seasons stats wise, they are both still young.  Denver, SF, etc got premium picks for their pass rushers in a fairly apples to apples situation.

 

One of the wild things about the Dan era is we don't sell during trade deadlines, on occasion we are buyers -- wild that one of the worst teams in the NFL for the last 25 plus years always have the attitude that the future is now.

 

Look at the Dolphins now.  They were like this team stuck in purgatory and became big time sellers 3-4 years ago.  Then they switched to being buyers but that's after reloading that roster with young talent

Edited October 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Denver, SF, etc got premium picks for their pass rushers in a fairly apples to apples situation.

 

I just want to point out that the situation isn't really apples to apples.  For example, Chubb had one more season on his contract and so wasn't a free agent.  That allowed Miami to restructure his deal and sign him to a long term contract on a pretty cap friendly number for this season still.

 

Because Sweat and Young are both free agents, that's going to cause their value to be much lower.  They are likely literally going to be a few game rental.  Nobody should get their hopes for a Chubb like return on Young and Sweat.

Edited October 10, 2023 by PeterMP

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't know where all this trade talk is coming from. This staff needs to win every game they can to save their skin, they will not be trading productive players for picks that the next staff will be able to utilize.  

 

 

[Warhead36]

I wanna keep Young. He's on the brink of stardom IMO. I bet with a new more creative DC he could really explode. 

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I just want to point out that the situation isn't really apples to apples.  For example, Chubb had one more season on his contract and so wasn't a free agent.  That allowed Miami to restructure his deal and sign him to a long term contract on a pretty cap friendly number for this season still.

 

Because Sweat and Young are both free agents, that's going to cause their value to be much lower.  They are likely literally going to be a few game rental.  Nobody should get their hopes for a Chubb like return on Young and Sweat.

 

Assume this is about Chubb.  Not sure about much lower.   Clearly the deal would have the narrative that said team would sign that player.  This wouldn't be the first rodeo of a team trading a marquee player before they hit FA.

 

22 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't know where all this trade talk is coming from. This staff needs to win every game they can to save their skin, they will not be trading productive players for picks that the next staff will be able to utilize.  

 

 

 

Everyone here I believe realizes that.  I've stated it among others a zillion times.  But in theory we like the idea.  It's not lost on us that Ron won't do it.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/why-did-the-patriots-trade-chandler-jones-to-cardinals-0ap3000000644691#:~:text=The Patriots received a former,did the Patriots trade Jones%3F

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=49ers+trade+buckner+before+he+becomes+a+free+agent&sca_esv=572180645&sxsrf=AM9HkKnFFvyN62y5qzh3WOBj1q-xzGeAYw%3A1696944579527&ei=w1ElZfLoH8zakPIPiY-wqAo&ved=0ahUKEwiy1vaWy-uBAxVMLUQIHYkHDKUQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=49ers+trade+buckner+before+he+becomes+a+free+agent&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiMjQ5ZXJzIHRyYWRlIGJ1Y2tuZXIgYmVmb3JlIGhlIGJlY29tZXMgYSBmcmVlIGFnZW50MgUQIRirAkjBLVDSBliwKHABeACQAQKYAaEBoAHBGqoBBDEuMjS4AQPIAQD4AQHCAgoQABhHGNYEGLADwgIGEAAYFhgewgIFECEYoAHCAggQIRgWGB4YHcICBxAhGKABGAriAwQYACBBiAYBkAYI&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

In essence, the 49ers chose to keep Armstead and get a first-rounder for Buckner, who would have been a free agent next offseason. On a line with Armstead, Dee Ford and Nick Bosa, the Niners couldn't pay everyone. Getting a first-round pick back in return is a boon for San Francisco.Mar 16, 2020

He was going to cost too much

Jones was due "only" $7.79 million in 2016, the final year of his rookie deal. While that number was fourth highest on the Patriots' roster, it is a reasonable figure for someone with 36 career sacks in 55 games. The problem was going to hit in 2017. Olivier Vernon's five-year, $85 million contract with the New York Giants sent a chill through front offices around the league with young pass rushers. If Vernon is worth $52 million in guarantees, Jones should get more. And he probably will from the Cardinals.

This deal only makes sense for Arizona if it locks up Jones to a long-term contract. The Cardinals are desperate for a pass rusher that can win one-on-one matchups and Jones provides that. But Jones is not worth a second-round pick and Cooper unless the Cardinals have him for more than one season. The Patriots knew Jones' time in New England was short.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The problem with a coach centric model in a win or bust year, Ron would play even for 8-9 versus 6-11 so won't trade anyone.  It's one of many reasons we don't want the next coach to have that kind of power.

It’s the one and only reason I would fire Ron early.  If they’re 2-5 before the trade deadline, either you fire him or force him to trade assets.  
 

Though, frankly, in a GM model in a must win year, it’s exactly the same mentality.  A GM who has to show they have built a winning team won’t tear it down for future assets either.  And GM’s do have must win years.  Sometimes tied to coaches, sometimes not.  
 

Must win years are bad.  All the way around.  It means the last 3-4 years haven’t gone as well as needed, and everybody is in CYa mode.  

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It’s the one and only reason I would fire Ron early.  If they’re 2-5 before the trade deadline, either you fire him or force him to trade assets.  
 

Though, frankly, in a GM model in a must win year, it’s exactly the same mentality.  A GM who has to show they have built a winning team won’t tear it down for future assets either.  And GM’s do have must win years.  Sometimes tied to coaches, sometimes not.  
 

Must win years are bad.  All the way around.  It means the last 3-4 years haven’t gone as well as needed, and everybody is in CYa mode.  

 

Yeah I do agree with it from that angle.

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I do agree with it from that angle.

It would be a VERY bad look for a GM to trade 3 first round picks they made because the team isn’t good enough. 
 

That typically leads to a new GM.

[Chris 44]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Probably but i don't want to lose 1 or both pass rushers for nothing.

 

As for others, not sure I'd want to trade because I don't see trade value.  Both Chase and Sweat are having good seasons stats wise, they are both still young.  Denver, SF, etc got premium picks for their pass rushers in a fairly apples to apples situation.

 

One of the wild things about the Dan era is we don't sell during trade deadlines, on occasion we are buyers -- wild that one of the worst teams in the NFL for the last 25 plus years always have the attitude that the future is now.

 

Look at the Dolphins now.  They were like this team stuck in purgatory and became big time sellers 3-4 years ago.  Then they switched to being buyers but that's after reloading that roster with young talent

I've been down on Chase, but he has had some very good moments this year, still think he needs more discipline, but would love to see what a totally different staff does with him and the rest of the D before giving them away for very little. I just have really soured on this staff all the way around, talent  evaluation, game prep, scheme, motivation and leadership. They don't seem to have an answer and at this point Im not sure how long they can keep the locker room. Players themselves are an issue to an extent but you need to fix the coaching and GM issues first.

[Fan since a Fetus]

If Young continues to play like he has so far this year and continues to improve, then I would really like to keep him around next year and see if we can get a much better coaching staff in here to utilize his talents. 
 

We need to at least try to get a D Co that will try to hide coverages and schemes, not just play straight up and rush 4 all the time. I think he could take that next step if we could somehow create mismatches. I think the whole d-line is better than Del Rio schemes or lack there of.