Why are we this bad on the field?

[D’Pablo]

Questions for those on the board in the know:

 

1. Is Scherff still hurt? Is his game noticeably different than in years past?

2. What is Moses’s issue? Is he hurt, or have injuries caught up to him? I recall him not being the most agile blocker, but coupled with his mental lapses, he looks like a statue.

3. A lot of folks have mentioned predictability with respect to playcalling- Is this a scheme/coach issue or does it seem that we’re dumbing things down due to QB turnover?

4. Why are we such a bad screen pass team?

5. How are our replacement TEs doing in terms of blocking and running routes? 
6. I feel like our D is actually decent on first and second down... What causes the absolutely nonsensical breakdowns on third down? Are we being done in by our secondary or linebackers? Who specifically is picked on the most and should they be benched?

7. Why aren’t we getting any turnovers at all? I haven’t seen the differential, but it seems like we’re -1000 in this respect. Is it at all related to our “softness” and inability to lay the wood? Do we play too much man coverage?

8. In his first start, did Haskins show any of the typical rookie issues like staring down receivers, being late out of the huddle, an unwillingness to go through his reads, etc...?

9. How is Roullier doing this year? Is he helping call out potential blitzers and making line adjustments? If not, should he be?

10. Are we still running a hybrid zone/power blocking scheme, and would we benefit from just switching back to a zone scheme?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

 

 

3

2 hours ago, dicksogj said:

 

Yep & except for in last few weeks IMO this was handled very, very poorly.

 

If Gruden was not on board with Haskins then why in the hell was he brought back as coach?  If it was obvious that he a major issue with this then it should have been a no brainer to not bring him back as coach (ditto for Manusky & still scratching my head as to why this guy is still coaching).

 

 

They would have had to fire Gruden in May.

[dicksogj]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

They would have had to fire Gruden in May.

 

Perfect.  Not sure exactly what they were thinking just after the draft & in the offseason with an offensive minded coach who is not on board with a guy who you just selected to hopefully be your future franchise QB.  Gruden was also a coach who was not on board with your most recent offensive MVP (AP) & appeared to be banking heavily on unreliable, off injured offensive weapons (who have subsequently missed substantial time) - Thompson, Reed & Guice.

 

Well worth the buyout - especially since he was fired anyhow & prior to the season most folks thought he would be fired at some pt in the season. You can call this bad luck - I call it a horrible organization.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

40 minutes ago, dicksogj said:

 

Perfect.  Not sure exactly what they were thinking just after the draft & in the offseason with an offensive minded coach who is not on board with a guy who you just selected to hopefully be your future franchise QB.  Gruden was also a coach who was not on board with your most recent offensive MVP (AP) & appeared to be banking heavily on unreliable, off injured offensive weapons (who have subsequently missed substantial time) - Thompson, Reed & Guice.

 

Well worth the buyout - especially since he was fired anyhow & prior to the season most folks thought he would be fired at some pt in the season. You can call this bad luck - I call it a horrible organization.

 

You're not gonna find anyone worthwhile in May, especially since you're already got your offseason plan in effect...better to stick with your current coach.

[Smurf3]

D'Pablo, this is a cause and effect issue so let's put it another way.  Since 2000 the Washington Redskins have been either mediocre or terrible with a couple of exceptions due to a rookie running QB and a coach brought out of retirement. They have been through 8 coaches, who knows how many QBs, numerous high priced free agents, and all kinds of schemes always saying wait until next year or maybe 5. So the question to you is, what has been the one constant for the past almost 2 decades? There you will find the underlying answer to your question. What takes place on the field are symtoms, not the problem. You cure a cold by the disappearance of the virus, not by sneezing.

[dicksogj]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You're not gonna find anyone worthwhile in May, especially since you're already got your offseason plan in effect...better to stick with your current coach.

 

OK fine - so you are also telling me that they could not work together with Gruden to find their future QB or perhaps get him to get on board with Haskins? I guess you are rt - Skins once again made the correct decision & it has led to the current optimal situation - or is it yet again simply bad luck - the kind of bad luck Allen has had for 10 years and counting.

 

I will take it a step further - it sounds like Allen & Gruden were not on the same page for quite a while - the rt move would have been to fire Gruden at the end of last season - oh well - hindsight is 20/20.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

Questions for those on the board in the know:

 

1. Is Scherff still hurt? Is his game noticeably different than in years past?

I can’t answer these questions, but he wasn’t playing as well when hurt. I also think not having Reed, Davis and Thompson, along with qb issues and schematic issues (not using AP early, high frequency of runs on 1st down, etc) make life hard(er) on him and the other olinemen.  

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

2. What is Moses’s issue? Is he hurt, or have injuries caught up to him? I recall him not being the most agile blocker, but coupled with his mental lapses, he looks like a statue.
 

I hate to say it, but Moses just kind of sucks and he certainly doesn’t fit with what Callahan is trying to do (IMO).  

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

3. A lot of folks have mentioned predictability with respect to playcalling- Is this a scheme/coach issue or does it seem that we’re dumbing things down due to QB turnover?

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

4. Why are we such a bad screen pass team?

Sorry, formatting messed up and I can’t fix it.

Predictability - it may be a combo, I don’t know.  I thought the play calling was generally fine vs the Bills and it was working vs the Vikings in the first half.  Haskins had 3 first down throws in the first half (@the Bills) and had positive plays each time.  I think they should have done a better job mixing in PA though, which might have helped the run game in the 2nd half.  
 

As to screens, I assume you mean defensively?  If you mean on offense, our screens were ok vs the Bills.  In general though, if you predominantly use screens on 3rd and long, you’re not going to have the same success unless your blockers are quite good or you’re facing a poor D.  On D, it seems like most successful screens are to Kerrigan’s side.  With his poor production vs the pass, I’m not surprised he’s getting sucked past the play.  Sweat might actually be good vs screens because of his speed and length, but again, I feel like they’re running them to the right mostly.  Holcomb and Bostic haven’t been able to avoid or shed blocks well enough and I have a hunch our poor corner play is affecting how quickly they come up and how deep the safeties are.  I’m guessing here, but I’d be willing to bet teams are running screens away from Collins (lining their TE up on the opposite side from the screen).  One of Apke’s issues were his pursuit angles... I expect he’s had some struggles vs the screen as a result.  I don’t know though.  

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

5. How are our replacement TEs doing in terms of blocking and running routes? 
 

I’ve liked Hentges as a run blocker.  He was matched up on a DE vs the Vikes and his guy forced a fumble on Keenum.  Not sure it was a coincidence he didn’t get many snaps vs the Bills.  Sprinkle got beat bad on one of APs goal one runs vs the Vikes, but on the whole I feel like he’s been serviceable.  His athleticism has been a pleasant surprise in the pass game, but he’s not getting many opportunities obviously.  

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

6. I feel like our D is actually decent on first and second down... What causes the absolutely nonsensical breakdowns on third down? Are we being done in by our secondary or linebackers? Who specifically is picked on the most and should they be benched?
 

Our corners have been pretty bad.  Problem is we don’t have suitable replacements (primarily for Norman and Moreau).  Pass rush hasn’t been getting home very often, or even making life hard on opposing qbs, with a few exceptions.  That combo - qbs having time and corners allowing separation has been a killer.  

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

7. Why aren’t we getting any turnovers at all? I haven’t seen the differential, but it seems like we’re -1000 in this respect. Is it at all related to our “softness” and inability to lay the wood? Do we play too much man coverage?
 

See above.  I personally think the combo of losing Fuller, Breeland and Preston has been a big detriment to the marriage of pass rush/coverage.  

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

8. In his first start, did Haskins show any of the typical rookie issues like staring down receivers, being late out of the huddle, an unwillingness to go through his reads, etc...?
 

Haskins was going through reads.  No idea how well w/o all-22, but he came off his first read numerous times and went to his 3rd+ at least a couple/few times.  Haven’t noticed the same lateness to the line/snap we’ve seen in the past... or not to the same extent anyway.  Seems like a thing Callahan or O’Connell recognized as a problem. I know they worked on this with Haskins leading up to his first start.  

3 hours ago, D’Pablo said:

9. How is Roullier doing this year? Is he helping call out potential blitzers and making line adjustments? If not, should he be?

10. Are we still running a hybrid zone/power blocking scheme, and would we benefit from just switching back to a zone scheme?

Can’t answer the above.  I asked a similar question about whether Callahan has made some changes in the run game schematically.  
 

Above is mostly all JMO of course. 

[RWJ]

I think we have good talented players.  I think a lot of the reason is we don't have decent coaching on both OF and DF.

[CjSuAvE22]

Guys cmon...its not the coaching it never has been we have tried a plethora of coaches, the real reason we stink is because we have never drafted well in fact contrary to popular belief of our latest drafts they too have been poor this team has zero depth one injury and an entire side of ball is affected its been like that since i can remember. It doesnt take rocket science to see how this team has messed up, we are the only team that trades for over the hill qbs, and the only team that i can remember in a long time to let a starting caliber qb simply walk away...if you cant get the qb position right but also trade away assets or picks for them  and still cant win you will be doomed in this league plain and simple. We LACK talent you cant win without talent...the D Line is suppose to be dominant but cant takeover games or put the team on their shoulder, consisting of two first round picks my grade for this D line is a D and you cant have D production when we have so much invested  in it now i know most of you will hate this post and believe that our D line is actually good...to those of you i ask how many games have we won because of them? How many times in a game have they gotten a sack fumble for TD or were the cause of a defensive score? What happened in philly when we were winning by two scores how did they let them come back and take the lead?? (Blame the secondary go ahead but just know defense starts at the d line the cowboys are a sad but good example) payne and allen are solid for about two plays a game but i have yet to see 60 mins of football from them

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

You're not gonna find anyone worthwhile in May, especially since you're already got your offseason plan in effect...better to stick with your current coach.

I'm not entirely sure I agree.  I think I agree.  But I'm not sure if I agree. Maybe I agree.

 

Here's why I agree: Most of the candidates who you would want to target would have been taken by that point, and presumably at least some component of the roster was put together based on the scheme and style Jay tried to play.  (As a side note, he was here for 5.25 years and I still have no idea what that really was, so maybe not. Shrug.)

 

When you change the HC, you have to, or at least should, allow them to pick their staff.  So firing Jay and then saddling the new coach with Manusky and Rob Ryan, eh, that's not ideal.  So you'd want to blow out the staff and let the new guy pick the staff.  And again, in May, most people have jobs and that's harder.

 

Now, here's where I disagree: If Jay just had no interest in coming up with a plan to develop Haskins, and didn't see him as the future, then what's the point of having him around for one additional day?  They drafted a QB at #15, for better or worse, and if the HC can't get behind that, it's going to be disruptive no matter what.  At that point, I might have been ok firing Jay and just promoting Callahan then.  Because if the HC isn't on board with the plan, it's going to lead to disaster. Which, it did.

9 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Guys cmon...its not the coaching it never has been we have tried a plethora of coaches, the real reason we stink is because we have never drafted well in fact contrary to popular belief of our latest drafts they too have been poor this team has zero depth one injury and an entire side of ball is affected its been like that since i can remember. It doesnt take rocket science to see how this team has messed up, we are the only team that trades for over the hill qbs, and the only team that i can remember in a long time to let a starting caliber qb simply walk away...if you cant get the qb position right but also trade away assets or picks for them  and still cant win you will be doomed in this league plain and simple. We LACK talent you cant win without talent...the D Line is suppose to be dominant but cant takeover games or put the team on their shoulder, consisting of two first round picks my grade for this D line is a D and you cant have D production when we have so much invested  in it now i know most of you will hate this post and believe that our D line is actually good...to those of you i ask how many games have we won because of them? How many times in a game have they gotten a sack fumble for TD or were the cause of a defensive score? What happened in philly when we were winning by two scores how did they let them come back and take the lead?? (Blame the secondary go ahead but just know defense starts at the d line the cowboys are a sad but good example) payne and allen are solid for about two plays a game but i have yet to see 60 mins of football from them

Punctuation is your friend.

 

In order to be successful you need coaching and talent.  Coaches put talent in a position to maximize their abilities.  Bad coaching makes talent look less talented.  Even great coaching cannot overcome complete lack of talent.  But NOBODY in the NFL really has a complete lack of talent.  

 

Jeff Fisher's Rams's team went 4-12 his last season.  Sean McVay took almost that exact same team and went 11-5.  Because Fisher is a bad coach, and McVay is a good coach.  That's a 7 game swing because the Rams improved the coaching significantly.

 

 

 

 

[CjSuAvE22]

24 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Jeff Fisher's Rams's team went 4-12 his last season.  Sean McVay took almost that exact same team and went 11-5.  Because Fisher is a bad coach, and McVay is a good coach.  That's a 7 game swing because the Rams improved the coaching significantly.

 

 

 

 

Simply not true outside of 5 starting players from 2016 that were on Fischers team offensively the rams brought in  6 different starters and many new faces including, Kupp Watkins Woods Whitworth Sulllivan Higbee and Jarmon Brown...but I guess it was basically the same roster Since Gurley and Goff were the qb and rbs.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

1

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm not entirely sure I agree.  I think I agree.  But I'm not sure if I agree. Maybe I agree.

 

Here's why I agree: Most of the candidates who you would want to target would have been taken by that point, and presumably at least some component of the roster was put together based on the scheme and style Jay tried to play.  (As a side note, he was here for 5.25 years and I still have no idea what that really was, so maybe not. Shrug.)

 

When you change the HC, you have to, or at least should, allow them to pick their staff.  So firing Jay and then saddling the new coach with Manusky and Rob Ryan, eh, that's not ideal.  So you'd want to blow out the staff and let the new guy pick the staff.  And again, in May, most people have jobs and that's harder.

 

Now, here's where I disagree: If Jay just had no interest in coming up with a plan to develop Haskins, and didn't see him as the future, then what's the point of having him around for one additional day?  They drafted a QB at #15, for better or worse, and if the HC can't get behind that, it's going to be disruptive no matter what.  At that point, I might have been ok firing Jay and just promoting Callahan then.  Because if the HC isn't on board with the plan, it's going to lead to disaster. Which, it did.

 

LOL @ the part in bold 😂

 

As for the rest...if it were to have played like that, I agree. I'm assuming, though, that a guy who is on the hot seat and doesn't want to be fired is gonna give the higher ups whatever impression they want to see from him, at least initially. So not being on board with drafting Haskins wouldn't be as obvious in May as it would have been in September, for example. But in general, yeah, if the FO and owner believe in the QB they just drafted and the HC who is already on the hot seat disregards any real plan to develop said QB, tossing him out the door in May and expediting things to the point that we're at now would actually have been an understandable move. Like the pick or not, it's the HC's job to make sure a plan is in place to develop all draft picks.

[dicksogj]

5 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

LOL @ the part in bold 😂

 

As for the rest...if it were to have played like that, I agree. I'm assuming, though, that a guy who is on the hot seat and doesn't want to be fired is gonna give the higher ups whatever impression they want to see from him, at least initially. So not being on board with drafting Haskins wouldn't be as obvious in May as it would have been in September, for example. But in general, yeah, if the FO and owner believe in the QB they just drafted and the HC who is already on the hot seat disregards any real plan to develop said QB, tossing him out the door in May and expediting things to the point that we're at now would actually have been an understandable move. Like the pick or not, it's the HC's job to make sure a plan is in place to develop all draft picks.

 

You may be correct that perhaps Gruden kind of faked it in regards to how he felt about Haskins.  That being the case that makes an even stronger argument for doing things in the traditional sense - hire a GM & give him full control over selecting the next head coach.  That would pretty much ensure that they are on the same page or at least constructively discussing their differences of opinion.  Oh well - makes too much sense - they will never do things in this fashion & honestly I am starting to think that Allen will never be fired - argh....

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, dicksogj said:

 

You may be correct that perhaps Gruden kind of faked it in regards to how he felt about Haskins.  That being the case that makes an even stronger argument for doing things in the traditional sense - hire a GM & give him full control over selecting the next head coach.  That would pretty much ensure that they are on the same page or at least constructively discussing their differences of opinion.  Oh well - makes too much sense - they will never do things in this fashion & honestly I am starting to think that Allen will never be fired - argh....

 

Oh, I definitely agree with you 100%....neither Dan or Bruce is football-savvy enough to come up with a different template to use to make a franchise consistently competitive and keep it on track from year to year. The tried-and-true template that you describe above would counterbalance some of their ineptitude.

[BurgundyBooger]

On 11/11/2019 at 1:54 PM, D’Pablo said:

 

The things I’m not interested in hearing are “Snyder,” “Bruce Allen,” or “Front Office.” I am just very curious about our failures from a the “X’s and O’s” perspective.

 

Why are those kids so bad?

 

Things I'm not interested in hearing are "Bad parents," "awful schools," and "poverty." I am just curious about their failures from an X and Y chromosomes perspective.

[profusion]

The talent drain over the last couple years has been severe. Couple that with unimaginative coaching, and you arrive at 1-8.

[ananoman]

Why are the Skins so bad?  It's simple.  Great organizations are able to find, cultivate, and keep great talent that others do not recognize, and maximize the potential of that talent.  The Skins are incapable of any of it.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Simply not true outside of 5 starting players from 2016 that were on Fischers team offensively the rams brought in  6 different starters and many new faces including, Kupp Watkins Woods Whitworth Sulllivan Higbee and Jarmon Brown...but I guess it was basically the same roster Since Gurley and Goff were the qb and rbs.

Actually I did a position by position look at the Rams between the 2 seasons.  The majority of the roster was identical.  Are you sure some of those guys weren’t “attacking success” guys in 2018?

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Actually I did a position by position look at the Rams between the 2 seasons.  The majority of the roster was identical.  Are you sure some of those guys weren’t “attacking success” guys in 2018?

https://www.therams.com/team/transactions/2017

[abdcskins]

You hit it in your first sentence - the talent and coaching.  There is none.  There is literally no playmakers on offense other than McLaurin.  I love Peterson but he isn't the gamebreaker he used to be, and the offensive line can't block enough to give him lanes.  This might be the worst passing team in the NFL, matter of fact it is, the stats back it up.  Teams aren't afraid of us throwing the ball.  On top of all that, our play calling is putrid and unimaginative.  We aren't catching any defenses off guard.  That's just our offense, our defense isn't much better.

[50yrSKINSfan]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:07 PM, Warhead36 said:

We have bad football players. Its not that hard.

 

[50yrSKINSfan]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:07 PM, Warhead36 said:

We have bad football players. Its not that hard.

 

On 11/11/2019 at 9:07 PM, Warhead36 said:

We have bad football players. Its not that hard.

That is it in a nutshell and the main reason for this is bad drafting and even worse bad free agent signings and trades. Add poor coaching and you get a losing team. Look at all the awesome running backs in the league and we draft a guy who has played in what, one game and the rest of his 2 years on IR. How about the great drafts by SM. Is anyone he drafted, besides Sheriff, still on the team and Sheriff was a reach. I am serious but the bad drafts started with Desmond Howard and the continue to this day. The RG3 thing was a fiasco and a mistake that will haunt you for 10 years. Look at the bad FA signings and trades like Smith, and McNab, AH and prime time and Arch. Just take a look at the good teams in baseball like the Yanks or Astros. They have good players period and even if we get a good guy we let him walk and we don't get anything for him. The Astros are not that good but they are smart enough to put 3 Cy Young award winners on their team and they play good D. We have no award winning players and we stink on D. Look back in our history and we were only good a few years out of the last 50 and the one thing that those good teams had in common was coaching. Starting with VL, then to GHA then to JJG. Look at that one draft we had with JJG. We got like 5 great players in one draft. Did we get 5 great players in all the drafts combined in the last 5 years? List goes on and on. Cheers.

[50yrSKINSfan]

5 hours ago, abdcskins said:

You hit it in your first sentence - the talent and coaching.  There is none.  There is literally no playmakers on offense other than McLaurin.  I love Peterson but he isn't the gamebreaker he used to be, and the offensive line can't block enough to give him lanes.  This might be the worst passing team in the NFL, matter of fact it is, the stats back it up.  Teams aren't afraid of us throwing the ball.  On top of all that, our play calling is putrid and unimaginative.  We aren't catching any defenses off guard.  That's just our offense, our defense isn't much better.

Like this a lot and I do not have any stats and just writing what I see is that to me it seems our D is overworked. When your O just gets 3 and outs over and over your D gets broken down and in the end cannot stop anyone. Seems almost every team we play has some guy getting a record setting day against us. Is it because our D is overworked or poor coaching or weak players are all 3?

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

https://www.therams.com/team/transactions/2017

I must have looked at something incorrectly before.  Yeah, there were a few more additions.  Kupp was a rookie draft pick, Watkins was signed. Though there were even more pieces added between 2017 and 2018.  

 

If your point is that Fisher could have coached the 2017 to 11-5, I just flat disagree. His track record over years suggests otherwise.  And I think if McVay had been there in 2016, they wouldn't have gone 4-12.  We'll never know.  

 

But there are such things as good coaches and bad coaches, just like there are good GMs and bad GMs.  And a good coach can get more out of a team than a bad coach.  That was my overall point.  

[kingdaddy]

Looking forward to seeing this lineup out there together at some point in the very near future: 

QB: Haskins

RB: Guice

TE: Davis/Sprinkle

WR: Terry Mac

WR: Sims Jr.

WR: Harmon

- Sprinkle in Quinn, PRich and some CT and lets see if this offense can grow together and make some big plays. No offense to AP but he's not the future so lets keep him to 5 - 6 carries at most. Would love to see Sims get 6 - 8 touches a game in a variety of ways. Control the ball and then blitz the crap out of QB's the last 7 games. Callahan has a chance to make this all happen...time to step up or step left.