Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Bills (ES Coverage Edition)

[KDawg]

"You gotta at least try to make a move when you're one on one in the open field instead of a high step 25 feet away from the defender" - Anonymous ESPN personality in the press box

 

Let's start with the obvious. Dwayne Haskins. The Redskins tailored their gameplan (they are saying the wind was a factor, but I find it hard to believe that they didn't go into the game with the plan already set) to Haskins. They did all the things that he excelled at in college. Outs, crossers, arrows, screens. It was a great way to get his feet wet. Many here were insinuating that the Redskins needed to let Haskins air it out a little bit and that they were doing him no favors for his development by using this game plan. I disagree. By going with what Haskins knows, they allowed him to focus more on the management aspect of a football game. Sure, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees all make plays that wow you with their arms and ball placement. But they all know how to manage a football game. Haskins is as raw as raw gets. Let that sink in for a second. Haskins is extremely raw. 

 

Instead of having him focus on the entire picture, they broke it down into a bite sized chunk for him. They allowed him to settle in by doing the exact things that he did in college while working on getting the team in and out of the huddle, managing the clock, setting motions, etc. Is that where you want your first round quarterback to be? Probably not. But throw out the first round talk around Haskins and look at him as a rookie developmental guy. Think of him as a fourth rounder if it helps. I understand that he was drafted in the first round so its difficult to do. But I am trying to do the same with him to temper my expectations. 

 

His mechanics are still horrendous. I saw one throw where I said, out loud, in the press box, "god damn what a play!". It was the blitz off the edge where he saw it, stood tall and delivered a strike to McLaurin to the sideline.  But the rest of his throws were jumping in the air, lowering his body level, dropping his shoulder, odd arm angle throws that don't have much of a place in the NFL.

 

But this is part of the reason I'm okay with what the Redskins did with Haskins yesterday. Ease him in to a full NFL quarterback gameplan. Let him do the things he's done and correct other issues over time. Focus on one aspect of the game and make the game easier for him. Yesterday was a major focus on game management. And to that end it was a success. But in order for the total development to be a success he has to build on yesterday. They have to start giving him more. If they just keep going with the same plan, they aren't developing him. 

 

This is why I'm okay with the approach. For now. If it stays the same over the next few weeks then they are just using a college gameplan that isn't putting points on the board. That is the wrong way to develop him. Day 1 as a starter: fine. But let's expand week to week.

 

I am not high on him, still. But I'm less nervous about him. Having said that, I want to see what he does when he throws the ball down the field more often and the Redskins are attempting to challenge for points.

 

Adrian Peterson was a man amongst boys yesterday in the first half. But the Bills made adjustments at the half. I haven't seen the replay so I'm going off of some strange angles, but it looked like they stopped doubling McLaurin in the second half and they focused more on filling run gaps. The adjustment seemed to be in the way of, "well, they can't throw the ball down the field, let's get more aggressive on the front" and it worked. Peterson had a 100 yards in the first half and 7 or 8 in the second half. A more balanced approach throughout the game would keep Peterson as a viable target in the running game for longer. This is yet another reason why they have to increase Haskins workload from what we saw today. 

 

The offensive line wasn't bad. They opened running lanes fairly well and picked up some blitzes from the Bills. Smallwood missed a pickup off the edge later in the game where he stepped up to the interior and didn't scan for outside blitzes. Interior protection is always the priority, but once nothing shows you have to look outside unless your assignment is to release. He stayed inside. Haskins got crushed. But Haskins didn't do great under pressure aside from the beautiful play to McLaurin that I noted earlier. He got out of the pocket decently, but then on the run his mechanics completely fall off and he misses. That is the next biggest hurdle in his development. 

 

As far as the defense goes, a whole lot of meh across the board. Instead of continually harping on the negative (not that we have seen much to be too positive about) let's focus on the positive.

 

1) Montez Sweat. Early in the game he had a contain responsibility on Allen. He had great position on a scramble to the left. They were in the open field. He maintained outside leverage and had a great angle. Then Allen stutter stepped inside and Sweat bit. Hard. He jumped inside and Allen okie doked him to the edge and got a sizeable gain. But later in the game, Sweat was more disciplined. Allen nor the Bills backs were able to get outside on him as he kept his lane. On a goal line play, Allen rolled opposite Sweat, but Sweat chased him from behind while keeping an excellent outside leverage angle in case Allen was able to plant and come back the other way and he registered a big sack. That's the type of development and learning in game that you like to see from a rookie. 

 

2) Payne, Allen, Ion - That almost goal line stand was a thing of beauty. 4 tries from the 1. And they stuffed three and even almost the 4th. I realize almost only counts in horse shoes... But still, those plays right there showed that these three animals play with a ton of heart. Settle deserves some credit, too. 

 

3) Another rookie, Cole Holcomb. The guy isn't great in coverage, but he's getting better. He's more fluid into his drops than he was earlier in the season. But the thing that sticks out most to me is how fast he read and reacts. He is all intensity and all motor. Downhill player. Needs to shore up his tackling and continue working on his drops. But I think he could be a player if he keeps developing.

 

Studs:

 

Matt Ioannidas - ***

Adrian Peterson - **

Daron Payne - *

 

Duds -

 

Josh Norman - Strictly for celebrating a stop on a play that wasn't made. Stop worrying so much about the celebration and worry more about the results.   

Bill Callahan/Kevin O'Connell - At some point, scoring touchdowns needs to occur. It's been over three games. Regardless of why, it's not a good look.

Bruce Allen - For constructing the roster of guys that cannot be relied on to play on a regular basis.

 

Dud honorable mention: Dunbar. He got abused in man coverage yesterday in big moments. But I don't think he deserves a true dud spot. He's been the best corner on the team all season and bad games happen. But he didn't play well.

 

 

Season Totals:

 

Terry McLaurin - 14x*

Adrian Peterson - 8x*

Tress Way - 7x*

Daron Payne - 6x*

Ion - 5x*

Steven Sims - 2x*

Inside LBs - 2x*

Jonathan Allen - 2x*

Paul Richardson - 2x*

Vernon Davis, fans who left - 1x*

Case Keenum - Push

Quinton Dunbar - Push

Dwayne Haskins - 1x 

Injuries - 2x

Kevin O'Connell - 2x

Nicholson - 2x

Right Side of OL - 3x

Secondary as a whole minus Collins)- 3x

Bill Callahan - 7x

Greg Manusky - 7x

Jay Gruden -8x

Josh Norman - 11x

Bruce Allen -20x

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Completely agree on the gameplan yesterday Coach. 

 

I was left shaking my head this morning reading all the WAY OTT criticism, albeit through natural, understandable frustration at the continued lack of TD's, of both the HC and OC. They tailored it perfectly to both his inexperience (college and pro), and what he's most comfortable with to allow him to manage the game and acclimate as quickly as possible to this level.  I have little doubt (I'm far higher on Haskins potential than yourself), that if they stick with him from here on in, which is key, it'll naturally open up far more things that they can do with him the more comfortable he gets. The lack of any real playmakers notwithstanding the passing game with McLaurin being taken out of games easily. Although kudos to #7 for going to Richardson in lew of that. 

 

I would question the lack of adjustments to our runs the second half after Buffalo had adjusted at half -time  Which also lead to some protection breakdowns which taught Haskins a harsh lesson at this level. And there should have ideally been more PA off the first-half runs. Although that's probably asking too much of him right here, right now in his first start as admittedly raw inexperienced as he is that you noted. 

 

But overall, the approach with him within the gameplan was solid in context to everything and kept the game winnable into the 4th. 

 

Just need better execution that will then open things up and have D's playing more honest the full 60 mins instead of being able to focus in on taking away the run game knowing the problems we have airing it out. 

 

But that will come 'if' they stick with him. 

 

If Keenan is back under centre against the Jets I don't know what the long-term plan is any more and they deserve all the criticism that will inevitably (and justifiably, IMHO, regardless of the final result), come their way. 

 

Hail. 

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

Completely agree on the gameplan yesterday Coach. 

 

I was left shaking my head this morning reading all the WAY OTT criticism, albeit through natural, understandable frustration at the continued lack of TD's, of both the HC and OC. They tailored it perfectly to both his inexperience (college and pro), and what he's most comfortable with to allow him to manage the game and acclimate as quickly as possible to this level.  I have little doubt (I'm far higher on Haskins potential than yourself), that if they stick with him from here on in, which is key, it'll naturally open up far more things that they can do with him the more comfortable he gets. The lack of any real playmakers notwithstanding the passing game with McLaurin being taken out of games easily. Although kudos to #7 for going to Richardson in lew of that. 

 

 

 

Yup. 

 

This is the key. And it needs to be kept in people's minds.

 

I'm not okay with the lack of offensive production. That's not good. I understand keeping it simple, but you can do that while still having options on the table. I would think, with such a run-centric gameplan, that one of the first things you'd work with Haskins on would be the playaction complements to the running game. So while I am on board with their developmental plan that they displayed yesterday, I'm not very bullish on their ability to create a complete gameplan that gives the team a chance to stay in games.

 

But it's tough to really knock their plan for Haskins. The team? Yes. Haskins? No.

[bakedtater1]

The rookie didnt make any major mistakes..please keep the rookie in to see what we have.

[KDawg]

Just now, bakedtater1 said:

The rookie didnt make any major mistakes..please keep the rookie in to see what we have.

 

I think they have to at this point. Anything going the other way makes any game plan they put into place yesterday look absolutely meaningless.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I think they have to at this point. Anything going the other way makes any game plan they put into place yesterday look absolutely meaningless.

 

Defo. Couldn't defend them at all as to the long game if they pointlessly revert back to someone who won't be a part of that. 

 

Hail. 

[Riggo-toni]

3 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

The rookie didnt make any major mistakes..please keep the rookie in to see what we have.

I dunno...if Keenum had played I bet we would have gotten another twenty to thirty yards on offense, and maybe even one more first down. Gotta max the stat sheet, man.

[bakedtater1]

6 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

I dunno...if Keenum had played I bet we would have gotten another twenty to thirty yards on offense, and maybe even one more first down. Gotta max the stat sheet, man.

Nooo if case would have played we would have won...lol jk...

[Thinking Skins]

I will say that during the game I was wondering about why all the Richardson over Harmon looks. I immediately thought that Richardson was getting the playing time over Harmon. But after checking PFR, https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201911030buf.htm, I see that Harmon actually played more than Richardson (25 snaps vs 24). So I'm left to think that Harmon was in on running downs and Richardson on passing. I don't know if its that simple or if Harmon is actually not getting separation. 

 

Another thing about this, I have to keep reminding myself that the guy is a rookie, and (although he probably shouldn't have been) a late round rookie, so it may be asking a lot for him to be a real big contributor early in his rookie season. That said, I'm on the optimistic side of things with respect to him because he's so talented. 

 

I get so frustrated with myself because for so long I wanted this team to build through the draft and now for the most part that's what we're doing. We have the guys like Norman, Richardson, Flowers, Penn, etc, but this is a team built through the draft and they're growing together. 

 

Another thing (kinda on this same line) is Apke. I'm falling in love with that guy. Not always in position and needs to clean up some things but he definitely plays with heart. I wish he was making more plays but I definitely see improvement from him. 

 

Who else? Sprinkle got most of the snaps at TE (75%). Hentges only got 18% and no targets. I was looking into some of the offseason hype about Hentges and thinking that maybe he could be somebody to help sure up the TE spot we've been hurting at. But these two guys left a lot to be desired on the catching front. That said, I didn't grade their blocking but I wonder how well it was. Same goes for the FB. Does he have hands? Can he catch? We used to throw our FBs out on some routes. 

 

I thought Anderson made some plays in the backfield and Sweat got credit for a sack (was this the play where Allen went out of bounds?)

 

I really wonder why Bostic is still playing on so many snaps over SDH and Holcomb. Those two should be the starters. Maybe its still a youth thing, but they seem to be better players than Bostic. 

 

I'm not a fan of the tank stuff, but I do see this as a rebuilding team and Its good to see the draft capital paying off in these respects. 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I will say that during the game I was wondering about why all the Richardson over Harmon looks. I immediately thought that Richardson was getting the playing time over Harmon. But after checking PFR, https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201911030buf.htm, I see that Harmon actually played more than Richardson (25 snaps vs 24). So I'm left to think that Harmon was in on running downs and Richardson on passing. I don't know if its that simple or if Harmon is actually not getting separation. 

 

 

I loved our last draft in part for selfish reasons because both McLaurin and Harmon were two guys I wanted in the mix of others.  Harmon has strong hands and is a feisty player both in terms of YAC and as a run blocker.  I haven't watched a game on coaches tape since the first one.  I plan to rewatch this one, though and I'll study Harmon.

 

Cooley has said from his own film reviews that Harmon right now is one of the better run blocking Wrs in the league. 

[thebluefood]

1961 'Skins through 9 games (the worst in franchise history): 68 points

1976 Bucs through 9 games: 88 

2008 Lions through 9 games: 151

2017 Browns through 9 games: 143

 

2019 'Skins through 9 games: 108 points 

 

Scoring only 40 more points than a nearly 60-years-old that willfully played only white players - denying themselves one of the most fertile sources of talent in the nation...that alone baffles me. Scoring only 20 more points than a team that, to me, is still the worst ever fielded, is inexcusable. 

 

But getting left in the dust but the only two 0-16 teams to date...what do you even say to that? And on top of that, the only team in contention for 0-16 this year has scored 124 points to date. 

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I loved our last draft in part for selfish reasons because both McLaurin and Harmon were two guys I wanted in the mix of others.  Harmon has strong hands and is a feisty player both in terms of YAC and as a run blocker.  I haven't watched a game on coaches tape since the first one.  I plan to rewatch this one, though and I'll study Harmon.

 

Cooley has said from his own film reviews that Harmon right now is one of the better run blocking Wrs in the league. 

 

I think we have talent on offense and I think the gears are shifting from a Reed/Davis/Thompson offense to a TMac/Guice/Harmon/??? offense. But One of those guys is out right now, the others are rookies who talent aside are going to have lumps. And we signed a guy in Richardson who when healthy is supposed to be a good WR. So I can understand stuff like making them earn their reps and competition. But its frustrating, especially seeing that fade route and saying to myself that it was the kind of play we saw Harmon make in the preseason. But I still have confidence this team will be ok moving forward.

 

Its good to hear about Harmon's blocking though. I know last year we had one of the worse TE blocking groups in the league. I can't remember how the WRs were. I think I remember hearing Doctson being ok in that regard. But the thing I like about that is that its getting Harmon on the field more. So the natural thing from that is that they won't want Harmon to only be on the field on run plays, which means that he'll be an option on pass plays, which means he will have more opportunities. Also, I think its clear that our offense goes through TMac right now and his ability to go deep or dictate coverage (even yesterday) opens up things for other WRs. We saw Richardson have his second best game since week 5 of last year yesterday. 

[Thinking Skins]

I think what frustrates me the most about the Richardson getting snaps is that he doesn't seem to fit this type of offense. I get that he can take a play the distance, but he's a deep ball threat and not a consistent chains mover. I think Harmon is more of a chains mover who fits more of what we like to do. I think its good that Richardson was used effectively yesterday, and maybe the better option is moving him to the slot, or Harmon to the slot and taking Quinn off the field. But I think that spot should probably go to Sims who has more big play potential than Quinn. But I'll admit that I haven't looked at much of Sims other than his big play against NE and got googley eyed thinking about the YAC potential that could give us on a screen or short pass. Honestly, why not just play Sims as our third down back instead of Smalwood. 

 

I really don't think Smallwood is doing anything for the offense. I would much rather bring in Bibbs. He was very effective in that same role last year. 

[Unbias]

Man, it's a sad day. Went into the game only wanting to see something that gave me hope for Haskins and I left with more questions. 

 

I'm wondering can we go full Josh Rosen on this one? If we are in the top 2 spots of the draft and have a shot at Tua Tagovailoa or Justin Herbert let's just trade Dwayne and Trent and try to have as many picks as we can for the rebuild. 

 

I really want Haskins to succeed, but I'm not seeing it. Granted Murray and Jones are higher picks, so it's logical to assume they are more pro-ready, but at this point I'd take Minshew over Dwayne. I hope this is just an overreaction Monday, but it's how I feel. 

[Unbias]

30 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think what frustrates me the most about the Richardson getting snaps is that he doesn't seem to fit this type of offense. I get that he can take a play the distance, but he's a deep ball threat and not a consistent chains mover. I think Harmon is more of a chains mover who fits more of what we like to do. I think its good that Richardson was used effectively yesterday, and maybe the better option is moving him to the slot, or Harmon to the slot and taking Quinn off the field. But I think that spot should probably go to Sims who has more big play potential than Quinn. But I'll admit that I haven't looked at much of Sims other than his big play against NE and got googley eyed thinking about the YAC potential that could give us on a screen or short pass. Honestly, why not just play Sims as our third down back instead of Smalwood. 

 

I really don't think Smallwood is doing anything for the offense. I would much rather bring in Bibbs. He was very effective in that same role last year. 

 

I think the issue with Paul Richardson is that he fits an offense where a QB like Russel Wilson makes him look good. Same can be said for Doug Baldwin, Golden Tate, Tyler Lockett, Jermaine Kearse, DK Metcalf, etc... 

 

All of those guys are 'meh' on their own. When they are paired up Wilson they look great. 

[Thinking Skins]

I'll also give a bone to the defense. It seems like they came into the game expecting a heavy dose of Gore, and thats how the announcers played. it Instead they got 20 carries from a guy who hadn't seen more than 7 in a game all year. And I mean, he had a better first half than second, and it seems like after that first drive of the third (really only one carry on that drive) they were effective in stopping him. But I don't want to give too much credit. I'll say he gave them unexpected problems. 

[fearlessNelms]

Haskins showed improvement and that was good to see. That said, it would be hard for him to be much worse than what we have seen of him in his first two appearances in relief. He made some solid throws, did a decent job of getting the team in and out of the huddle on time and managing the game- which is really all they asked him to do. That is fine by me, because learning to play QB in the NFL and dealing with the overall speed of the pro game compared to college is what I want to see him improve on as the season goes.

 

As far as how well he picks up the offense is not a big concern of mine. Unless we hire O'Connell as the next HC- which I hope doesn't happen- this staff will not be here next year and he will have to learn a whole new offense in the offseason anyway. While I'm not high on Haskins, I don't have much confidence in O'Connell either. I would like to see if Haskins can improve leaps and bounds if he was to get coached up by an offensive & QB guru, much like Jared Goff did when he was a bust under Jeff Fisher and his staff in his rookie year, before improving immensely in his second year once Mcvay and his staff took over.

[Stadium-Armory]

The pass protection wasn't perfect but it was good enough to realize that it's not a David Carr situation. Yes he was sacked once or twice, but it wasn't a jailbreak on every play. I'm not worried about his safety or psyche from taking too may hits. Let him play.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I love the fact we're practicing the Wednesday of the bye for the first time in forever because 'we need the work.' 

 

The way it should be. And great for Haskins in particular who needs all the reps he can get. Physical and mental. I know he was Bellicheck-esq noncommittal in giving nottin away on the starter but you have to presume the decision to roll with Haskins has been taken internally or else what's been the point of this approach with him?

 

Hail. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

15 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

I love the fact we're practicing the Wednesday of the bye for the first time in forever because 'we need the work.' 

 

The way it should be. And great for Haskins in particular who needs all the reps he can get. Physical and mental. I know he was Bellicheck-esq noncommittal in giving nottin away on the starter but you have to presume the decision to roll with Haskins has been taken internally or else what's been the point of this approach with him?

 

Hail. 

 

This ****ing guy...…..

[evmiii]

I agree with the thought, but this should have been the reality after week 1.  We wasted half a season of evaluation and potential growth.  

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, evmiii said:

I agree with the thought, but this should have been the reality after week 1.  We wasted half a season of evaluation and potential growth.  

 

Absolutely. But that's not where the issue starts.

 

The issue starts after last season, when they kept Gruden on as head coach. I'm not blaming Gruden necessarily, but when they didn't hit the reset button there, it set the tone for a lot of this stuff to happen. Drafting Haskins, who Gruden didn't want in that spot because Gruden, as he told the media, knew if he didn't win he was gone... That's the next issue there. Gruden had zero reason to play Haskins in the beginning of the season. He was coaching for his job, and we all see Haskins is raw. Playing him would have meant he was gone, it was just a matter of when. By not playing Haskins he gave himself a puncher's chance of survival. 

 

A developmental QB for a must-win coach is not a great combination of assets. Combine that with Bruce Allen and Trent Williams' situation and you have a recipe for disaster. 

 

The way you win is that people are able to put aside their own egos/extra money/extra touches/selfish tendencies for the betterment of the franchise. Bruce Allen isn't capable of doing that. And that trickles down. 

 

Keeping Gruden was asking for this issue.

 

And we got it.

[Koolblue13]

I kind of disagree with the secondary score. I think both Apke and Collins are playing great football. Apke save at least one and almost 2 TDs because of Norman's terrible coverage. Which is exactly what he should be doing.

 

If I see Kerrigan spend half a game in coverage, while the QB has no pressure, I'm gonna fly up there and assault Manusky.

[KDawg]

10 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I kind of disagree with the secondary score. I think both Apke and Collins are playing great football. Apke save at least one and almost 2 TDs because of Norman's terrible coverage. Which is exactly what he should be doing.

 

If I see Kerrigan spend half a game in coverage, while the QB has no pressure, I'm gonna fly up there and assault Manusky.

What secondary score?

 

If you mean under "Season Totals:" that's the total for the season in these threads. It's not the core from the game. The secondary didn't get a score other than Norman's dud performance.

[bakedtater1]

I remember when these threads would hit 4 pages by noon on monday..24 replies...Wednesday?..😕