Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. 49ers

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Thoughts:

 

Studs:

Oh boy. This one is tough.

 

Terry McLaurin - one big catch. Yay. - ***

Adrian Peterson - despite the fumble, he was the only offense aside from McLaurin's one nice catch. - **

Quinton Dunbar - Seemed to be draping his guy in coverage all night - *

 

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, why was Terry McLaurin a stud but not Trey Quinn?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

@goskins10 The gamebook play-by-play off the league site mate.  

 

I genuinely thought I was being a accurate. 

 

Still, an improvement on the earlier games regardless.

 

Hail.

 

It's not, though.

 

https://www.nflpenalties.com/team/washington-redskins?year=2019&view=games

 

Was the offense's second most penalized game this season (5), tied with week 4 & 5. Much less than week 1 (8). Week 2 they had 4, Week 3 they had 3, week 6 they had 0.

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

Just out of curiosity, why was Terry McLaurin a stud but not Trey Quinn?

 

Because I honestly neglected to remember Quinn even played.

 

He probably could have been, now that I'm thinking about it. 

[Xameil]

6 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

- Anything over 30 yards was dicey.  The 2 misses were 39 and 45.  If anybody scored a TD, going for 2 was probably the best option.

 

- I think AP fumbling almost negates the rest of his day.  It sucks, but scoring there was the only chance they had and he fumbled it away.  It was only 3-0.  

 

- The play shouldn't have even happened.  They blew it dead before he fumbled.  I wasnt too annoyed by that.  

 

- We're playing these smallish QBs with gimpy legs.  Keenum wants no parts of running, sneaking, scrambling.  You know what would be awesome for a QB sneak in such conditions on 4th and 1?  A big, strong, 6'4", 230lb QB.  Wish we had one of those.  

- Agreed. That's why I was wasnt too pissed about it.

- I dont think it negated his whole day, but the team seemed to play differently after it.

- I missed them blowing it dead before. I was basically going off the reaction by the announcers who also were...WTF

- Keenum runs on occasion..this was not even a run...it was basically a fall forward, so Irespectfully disagree with your point here.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

@goskins10 The gamebook play-by-play off the league site mate.  

 

I genuinely thought I was being a accurate. 

 

Still, an improvement on the earlier games regardless.

 

Hail.

Honest mistake, the Redskins official anything messes up a lot, like the QBs who won their prior Super Bowls and the spelling of names of guys going into the ring of honor.

 

That said, 5 penalties was not an improvement, and this discipline being spoken of and refs at practice appears to have paid 0 dividends when faced with a real team.

[goskins10]

13 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

@goskins10 The gamebook play-by-play off the league site mate.  

 

I genuinely thought I was being a accurate. 

 

Still, an improvement on the earlier games regardless.

 

Hail.

 

But that's the point - it is not an improvement at all. Here are the penalties per game. So against everyone but Miami who was a JV team, they are averaging 5 Off penalties/gm - exactly what they got against SF - 8, 4, 3, 5, 5, 0 ,5. 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's not, though.

 

https://www.nflpenalties.com/team/washington-redskins?year=2019&view=games

 

Was the offense's second most penalized game this season (5), tied with week 4 & 5. Much less than week 1 (8). Week 2 they had 4, Week 3 they had 3, week 6 they had 0.

 

Again, that was going off a different source. 

 

 

@goskins10. You lost me the more you dismiss Miami as akin to a ‘JV’ team and refuse to acknowledge that game mate.

 

That aside, the miscommunication was coming from different sites. An honest mistake. Or not on their behalf. 

 

Hail. 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Again, that was going off a different source. 

 

Hail.

You lost me the more you dismiss Miami as akin to a ‘JV’ team and refuse to acknowledge that game mate.

 

That aside, the miscommunication was coming from different sites. An honest mistake. Or not on their behalf. 

 

Hail. 

Yeah. I don’t believe I ever made the JV comment.

 

And don’t worry, you’ve lost me with your whole argument several times.

 

And that’s okay. We all look at things different.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Yeah. I don’t believe I ever made the JV comment.

 

And don’t worry, you’ve lost me with your whole argument several times.

 

And that’s okay. We all look at things different.

 

If you’d have shown a little patience in replying there Coach, you’d have caught the reply being to goskins10.

 

The site merged two messages before I could amend.

 

what argument is it you think I’m making that’s losing you? All i’ve stated is the positive improvements both under Callahan and what I personally believe is his influence on the team as a whole.

 

i don’t know what’s getting lost in translation but it seemed pretty clear to me. Sorry if it wasn’t.

 

Hail.

[KDawg]

GHH, goskins poster and then you replied with “regardless, it’s an improvement”.

 

Ive laid out several times on the rest of why I just don’t agree with your takes. And that’s okay. It would be boring if we agreed

[skins4eva]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Callahan’s philosophy of running attempts is ass-backwards and 1973 thinking.  You score points by throwing the ball. The best situated to be unpredictable.  Don’t have tendencies and be able to both run and pass.  Jay ran on every first down for 5 years, which was moronic.  Now Bill is doubling down and running on first and second, which is also moronic.  

 

I said this before, I think in some ways, Bill is playing to Bruce.  Bruce, who’s a complete and total idiot, still thinks running and playing defense got them to 6-3 last year and that was the golden age of his tenure at the Redskins and minus Alex getting hurt he would look like a freaking genius for not signing Kirk, trading for Alex, and they would have made the playoffs

 

Clearly Bruce is delusional.  But Callahan is feeding him what he wants to hear.  

 

Dan needs to wise up and figure out everything Bruce is selling is nonsense and he needs to move on and find a different football mind.  

 

The question is if Dan has that in him.  

 

I have to disagree with you here, respectfully, of course.  This is not a team built to throw the ball and score points at a rapid clip.  What they can do, and what they've showed over the last two weeks is the ability to be a ball control offense that uses the clock to their advantage.  They can go on long time consuming drives and keep the other offense off the field.  They can keep games close and hopefully have a chance to steal a few.  I do think that's the right model for the "talent" we currently have on offense.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

GHH, goskins poster and then you replied with “regardless, it’s an improvement”.

 

Ive laid out several times on the rest of why I just don’t agree with your takes. And that’s okay. It would be boring if we agreed

 

Am I speaking double Dutch here mate?

 

We were looking at different sources. Which has been cleared up. Off the NFL site, it would have been an improvement regardless. But if that’s not accurate sound, misunderstanding cleared up.

 

Them same with the JV line you jumped in on before I could amend.

 

Christ people are tetchy lately. It’s like every minute thing has to be explained in detail or it gets jumped on. 

 

Hail.

[KDawg]

58 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

@goskins10 The gamebook play-by-play off the league site mate.  

 

I genuinely thought I was being a accurate. 

 

[v]Still, an improvement on the earlier games regardless.[/b]

 

Hail.

 

17 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Am I speaking double Dutch here mate?

 

We were looking at different sources. Which has been cleared up. Off the NFL site, it would have been an improvement regardless. But if that’s not accurate sound, misunderstanding cleared up.

 

Them same with the JV line you jumped in on before I could amend.

 

Christ people are tetchy lately. It’s like every minute thing has to be explained in detail or it gets jumped on. 

 

Hail.

 

I've taken the liberty of bolding your statement that my penalties post was referencing. Your original post, of 2 holds and 1 false start, was from a different source. Your statement, "still an improvement on the earlier games regardless", however, was made and is still there.

 

The point I was making was not that you were wrong about the holds and false start numbers. It's that it's not an improvement. 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

Click your mouse if you knew our last play would be a sack.  It summed up our anemic offense well.

[goskins10]

55 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Again, that was going off a different source. 

 

 

@goskins10. You lost me the more you dismiss Miami as akin to a ‘JV’ team and refuse to acknowledge that game mate.

 

That aside, the miscommunication was coming from different sites. An honest mistake. Or not on their behalf. 

 

Hail. 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Am I speaking double Dutch here mate?

 

We were looking at different sources. Which has been cleared up. Off the NFL site, it would have been an improvement regardless. But if that’s not accurate sound, misunderstanding cleared up.

 

Them same with the JV line you jumped in on before I could amend.

 

Christ people are tetchy lately. It’s like every minute thing has to be explained in detail or it gets jumped on. 

 

Hail.

 

Actually, it depends on what you want to call an improvement. But first the data sources. Off the NFL site - and I counted every off penalty for all 7 gms using the NFL.com Play by Play - they have the same as the site I quoted - 8, 3, 4, 5, 5, 0 ,5 respectively.

 

What I am going by here you said the number of penalties in the SF game still represents an improvement. 5 off penalties/gm  is exactly what they had under Jay. You did not say on average. If that's what you meant, then OK I see where you are coming from But for me, the Miami game is a statistical anomaly, not a change, especially since the very next game against a much better team they went right back to the exact average as before (25 off penalties in 5 gms is 5/gm.

 

And yes calling Miami a JV team may be a bit harsh. I was not stating it as a fact, just demonstrating the quality team I see them as. I definitely see them a lesser opponent and find it hard to draw any inference from that game. Against SF thought is a different story, so I give them credit where its due but not where it's not warranted.

[Idaho fan]

42 minutes ago, skins4eva said:

 

I have to disagree with you here, respectfully, of course.  This is not a team built to throw the ball and score points at a rapid clip.  What they can do, and what they've showed over the last two weeks is the ability to be a ball control offense that uses the clock to their advantage.  They can go on long time consuming drives and keep the other offense off the field.  They can keep games close and hopefully have a chance to steal a few.  I do think that's the right model for the "talent" we currently have on offense.

 

I don't know... I will agree that this team might not be built to throw the ball - but then they aren't built to do much of anything.  I think what we have seen the last two weeks is an over correction from Gruden's system.  Callahan wants an identity of running the ball so that's what the focus has been on.  The sample size is tiny - a game against the worst team in the league and a game against a quality team during a typhoon.

 

This "ball control offense" will be exposed to a much greater extent against the Vikings who can both pass and run the ball and their defense can stop piss poor offenses which the Skins are.  This "ball control" offense will last for a couple drives and then there will be little choice but to try to throw the ball as the score deficit will require it. 

 

I actually think the talent on the team is better suited for what a lot of teams try to do which is to be fairly even with pass to run ratios.  Keep the defense guessing.  Unfortunately defenses don't have to guess at all.  Players have come out and stated they know what's coming.  

[owa]

I thought it was kind of fun to watch with all the slipping and sliding.  IMO, it was the perfect day for an upset but unfortunately, the 'skins weren't able to pull it off.  I think if they were a little more aggressive on offense it could have made a difference but watching the post game show, they all seemed to be very happy that we ran so much and stuck with it even though we didn't score any points.  Maybe going for the moral victory?  Even with the conservative game play, we still had our chances and the defense played well at times.  I guess it is all a step in the right direction

[markmills67]

Is it just me that can't understand why there hasn't been more talk about how good of a game Loannidis had yesterday, 8 solo tackles for a DL was brilliant in my eyes, and with Payne and Allen getting 5 each at least we have one positional group we don't have to touch in 2020

 

HTTR 

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Is it just me that can't understand why there hasn't been more talk about how good of a game Loannidis had yesterday, 8 solo tackles for a DL was brilliant in my eyes, and with Payne and Allen getting 5 each at least we have one positional group we don't have to touch in 2020

 

HTTR 

 

I agree, actually. It kind of gets lost in the shuffle, but even including Settle, our interior 2 players are very, very fun to watch and solid.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I've taken the liberty of bolding your statement that my penalties post was referencing. Your original post, of 2 holds and 1 false start, was from a different source. Your statement, "still an improvement on the earlier games regardless", however, was made and is still there.

 

The point I was making was not that you were wrong about the holds and false start numbers. It's that it's not an improvement. 

 

 

 

I know exactly the point you were making mate. And it was a misunderstanding. Which you've madly done again here. Maybe I'm just not making it clear. 

 

The second response, the same as the first, I was. on both responses, basing the improvement off the NFL site and the drop off from the season average the first 5 games to the last 2. (I inadvertently left out average. My bad. Sorry if that was your confusion.). 

 

This is like pulling teeth. Something got lost in translation but I hope that's cleared it up. 

 

@goskins10 Yeah, sorry man. I was responding on the move on my moby and inadvertently left out 'average.' Which I just took as you'd get when I said it was an improvement on the first 5 games of the year.  I also, as noted in the OP of the other thread on the O and penalties, collated all penalties, accepted or refused. Which again, may lead to differing figures. 

 

Hail. 

[dballer]

Man...Looking back, I realize I was actually laughing at times. Some of Keenums throws, the Peterson call on 4th and 1, Moses not moving when the other 21 players on the field were...literally laughing. And that makes me want to cry. 

 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, dballer said:

Man...Looking back, I realize I was actually laughing at times. Some of Keenums throws, the Peterson call on 4th and 1, Moses not moving when the other 21 players on the field were...literally laughing. And that makes me want to cry. 

 

 

 

Look... The bright side is Moses didn't false start on that play. Silver linings.

[Mooka]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That said, 5 penalties was not an improvement, and this discipline being spoken of and refs at practice appears to have paid 0 dividends when faced with a real team.

 

Not all penalties are discipline related...

 

This is true for all sports but you commit a penalty when you're beat.

 

I.e.

 

You hold if the guy get's past you. You commit PI because the other guy is faster, etc.

 

Our roster isn't good enough to play mistake free football.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

Not all penalties are discipline related...

 

This is true for all sports but you commit a penalty when you're beat.

 

I.e.

 

You hold if the guy get's past you. You commit PI because the other guy is faster, etc.

 

Our roster isn't good enough to play mistake free football.

 

See. Another guy who doesn't see the silver lining.

 

Did Moses hold when he got beat yesterday? No. If you don't move, you can't hold. 

[NoCalMike]

Callahan's "ball control" scheme only works if the offense can finish drives with points, preferably TD's.  You are limiting how many drives the offense will touch the ball. It also means the margin for error is extremely tiny as evidenced by Washington having one true good opportunity for a TD drive when AP fumbled. 

 

So far they played a horrendous Dolphins team, and a 49ers team that took zero risks in bad weather against an opponent they clearly thought of as inferior.

 

This Thursday in a dome, taking on the Vikings I think will be the first game of the "Callahan era" that will show why this strategy isn't going to work with the current roster.  Without a 49ers/Patriots caliber defense to shut down your opponent, it doesn't matter if you can rush the ball 50 yards on every drive if you end up stalling out on the opponent's 40 yard line. Granted, weather played a factor in the lack of passing offense, but the same could be said against the 49ers. On a sunny & clear skies day, that game likely looks drastically different.   The Redskins can run the ball all they want so at the end of the day some fans can say "AP rushed for 80 yards, see, it works" yet the scoreboard is going to likely show a lopsided loss.

 

I am as glad as the next fan that Callahan is at least showing there was more of the run game to offer than what Gruden was willing to let happen, but the passing game has been just as horrendous under Callahan, Keenum seems to regress every week, partly because he is probably playing on a bad leg, but oh well, that is Callahan's decision to play an injured QB over Haskins. No sympathy there. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

1 hour ago, Idaho fan said:

...

I actually think the talent on the team is better suited for what a lot of teams try to do which is to be fairly even with pass to run ratios.  Keep the defense guessing.  Unfortunately defenses don't have to guess at all.  Players have come out and stated they know what's coming.  

4

 

That's far more down to the lack of a competent QB under centre right now than running the ball. If we had the former, the pass options would open up off the run game. Which in turn would either leave to bigger passing options one-on-one. Or open up the box more for the run as the opposing D would then be kept more honest. 

 

Not that I have to tell you basic football principles that never change just it's staggering when a coach puts in the words 'commitment to', a slew of people take it literally as a run only O thas an outdated concept harking back to the '80's where all we do is pound the rock. Which isn't the premise at all. We're just, as far as I can tell, currently trying to stamp our mark on the run game and hammer one down here that's effective. Which is going to take time and have it's ups and downs. Allied to the personnel we both currently have, and in anticipation of making Haskins job a whole bunch easier when he's finally ready to step up. Long term, it'll be a run-first principle per se but an amalgamation off of that like most winning sides do. Not least within the traditional black and blue division, we play in.

 

Least that's how I was reading Coach Callahan every time he's spoken on this but I may be wrong. 

 

Hail.