FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Panninho]

Was a nice throw, should have been a catch. Hope we see some more shots down the field to Terry - dude is always open.

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me this game coming up is big.  Burrow lit up the Browns with a weak supporting cast.  We match up IMO well against the Browns.  i like Haskins' competitiveness so this is the perfect storm for a swing back game.  I figure he will play mad and in a good way.  If he does just that my optimism will lean slightly positive again.  If he struggles in that one, he drops another peg down for me. 

Burrow lit the Browns up because he threw the ball 60 times. Hard not to light a team up throwing that often. 
 

If we’re calling the Bengals a weak supporting cast, the WFT supporting cast must be on life support. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Raw talent.

9th career start.

1st really clean pocket of the season.

Steps into and drops a 40 yarder right down the chimney.

 

And his only good receiver drops it...

 

Hang in there, Dwayne!

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me this game coming up is big.  Burrow lit up the Browns with a weak supporting cast.  We match up IMO well against the Browns.  i like Haskins' competitiveness so this is the perfect storm for a swing back game.  I figure he will play mad and in a good way.  If he does just that my optimism will lean slightly positive again.  If he struggles in that one, he drops another peg down for me.

 

Based on Rivera's comments yesterday, I'd think they'd come out with some up-tempo, maybe no huddle, quick reads to get him into the game. Sounds like he's trying to do too much early? 

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Raw talent.

9th career start.

1st really clean pocket of the season.

Steps into and drops a 40 yarder right down the chimney.

 

And his only good receiver drops it...

 

Hang in there, Dwayne!

 

Reminds me of this play from last year.  I think we found Terry's one weakness.

 

[DJHJR86]

Going back to 2015, here is a comparison of all of the quarterbacks taken in the first round in their first 9 starts.  

 

Jameis Winston:
164/285 - 57.54% - 2159 Yds - 10 TD - 9 INT - 80.1 Passer Rtg - 6.86 AY/A - 16 Sacks for 112 Yds lost

 

Marcus Mariota:

186/296 - 62.84% - 2244 Yds - 16 TD - 8 INT - 92.8 Passer Rtg - 7.45 AY/A - 26 Sacks for 168 Yds lost

 

Jared Goff: 

147/258 - 56.98% - 1614 Yds - 7 TD - 8 INT - 72.4 Passer Rtg - 5.49 AY/A - 29 Sacks for 242 Yds lost

 

Carson Wentz:

202/311 - 64.95% - 2121 Yds - 9 TD - 5 INT - 87.6 Passer Rtg - 6.82 AY/A - 19 Sacks for 95 Yds lost

 

Mitchell Trubisky:

131/225 - 58.22% - 1508 Yds - 6 TD - 4 INT - 80.0 Passer Rtg - 6.44 AY/A - 23 Sacks for 149 Yds lost

 

Patrick Mahomes:

209/320 - 65.31% - 2810 Yds - 26 TD - 7 INT - 109.5 Passer Rtg - 9.74 AY/A - 12 Sacks for 58 Yds lost

 

Deshaun Watson:

177/287 - 61.67% - 2468 Yds - 23 TD - 12 INT - 99.1 Passer Rtg - 8.36 AY/A - 25 Sacks for 151 Yds lost

 

Baker Mayfield: 
207/331 - 62.54% - 2438 Yds - 18 TD - 10 INT - 90.4 Passer Rtg - 7.09 AY/A - 21 Sacks for 146 Yds lost

 

Sam Darnold:
159/289 - 55.02% - 1934 Yds - 11 TD - 14 INT - 68.3 Passer Rtg - 5.27 AY/A - 21 Sacks for 129 Yds lost

 

Josh Allen: 

126/328 - 52.94% - 1559 Yds - 6 TD - 9 INT - 66.1 Passer Rtg - 5.35 AY/A - 24 Sacks for 188 Yds lost

 

Josh Rosen:

144/266 - 54.14% - 1634 Yds - 10 TD - 10 INT - 69.7 Passer Rtg - 5.20 AY/A - 25 Sacks for 190 Yds lost

 

Lamar Jackson:

133/215 - 61.86% - 1710 Yds - 12 TD - 3 INT - 113.9 Passer Rtg - 9.87 AY/A - 18 Sacks for 78 Yds lost

 

Kyler Murray:
203/316 - 64.24% - 2229 Yds - 9 TD - 4 INT - 89.2 Passer Rtg - 7.05 AY/A - 29 Sacks for 210 Yds lost

 

Daniel Jones:

205/329 - 62.31% - 2117 Yds - 17 TD - 8 INT - 87.9 Passer Rtg - 6.37 AY/A - 33 Sacks for 263 Yds lost

 

Dwayne Haskins:

143/245 - 58.37% - 1626 Yds - 9 TD - 3 INT - 85.5 Passer Rtg - 6.85 AY/A - 32 Sacks for 208 Yds lost

[dyst]

26 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Incredible that Ryan Tannehill wasn’t a finished product after his first season starting, with a 58% completion rate, a 76.1 passer rating and a 12 to 13 TD to INT ratio. 
 

Haskins is younger right now than Tannehill was his rookie season. 

Our fans deserve just as much pain as Dolphins fans if we run Haskins out of town.  Maybe we should be focusing on getting our QB some weapons and a capable OL, like the Titans did. 

Ok, so we wait 8 years for him to develop? That will put us in the 2027 season.

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, dyst said:

Ok, so we wait 8 years for him to develop? That will put us in the 2027 season.

 

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to realize it was his supporting cast changing for the better, rather than the number of years in the league, that led to him breaking out.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Burrow lit the Browns up because he threw the ball 60 times. Hard not to light a team up throwing that often. 
 

If we’re calling the Bengals a weak supporting cast, the WFT supporting cast must be on life support. 

 

The Bengals supporting cast, really?  Thet aren't even in the same conversation with the WFT suppoting cast? 

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

PFT grades are nice, but every sane person on the planet would trade Terry/Sims/Gibson for Green/Boyd/Mixon.  And they’d do it in a New York minute.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

PFT grades are nice, but every sane person on the planet would trade Terry/Sims/Gibson for Green/Boyd/Mixon.  And they’d do it in a New York minute.

 

Then call me insane. No way I'd make that trade.  It wouldn't even be a hard decision not even a little bit.  Maybe if AJ Green was 23 again.

 

 

 

I was curious so just looked up all the QBR ratings this far which I do take more seriously than PFF grades.   I thought Baker wasn't having a hot year.   Brady, wow.  Season though is still young obviously. 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The Bengals supporting cast, really?  Thet aren't even in the same conversation with the WFT suppoting cast? 

 

 

Yes, really. For people who prefer to use more than a 2 game sample size. 
 

Mixon-Green-Boyd-Sample-Higgins-Ross is a FAR better and deeper group of weapons. Even Bernard is better than our satellite back. 
 

The OL favors the Bengals as well, though they’re both terrible. 
 

They also have a much more experienced play caller. 

[JSSkinz]

@Skinsinparadise any chance you could post the PFF for the Browns defense for last game?

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Then call me insane. No way I'd make that trade.  It wouldn't even be a hard decision not even a little bit.  Maybe if AJ Green was 23 again.

 

I think Gibson is going to be very good, and no way I trade youth for Green. I like Boyd, but McLaurin is better. They can have Inman...gotta give to get amirite?

[TradeTheBeal!]

@Skinsinparadise fantasy team must look like absolute trash.

 

😬

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the roll him in the pocket idea and the deep ball thought, too.    The weird thing about him is for a dude with a good arm he didn't really throw a great deep ball in college and watching him in camp he wasn't good at it there either.  His deep ball is somewhat flat and under thrown.   He can throw high with the intermediate throws but often short with the deep ball. Though I agree I'd throw some even if its just to keep defenses honest. 

 

From what I saw in camp his wheel house is in between the numbers 5-15 yards albeit not so much this season.

 

You were the one who helped turned me off to Haskins before the draft.  And it worked.  Yet, I am on board with give the dude time.  What I like the most about him is his competitive streak.  He's a gamer.  That's why to me this Cleveland game is huge.  For a competitive dude, I'd think he'd come into that game angry.  And the Browns defense isn't that hot. It's the perfect storm.  If he bounces back next week, I'd feel a lot better.  If he struggles, for me at least it will set off alarm bells.

 

This part isn't directed to you, just sharing my take.  I am not in the camp of how he can't be judged right now because of his suporting cast.  My main reason for that is I saw the dude throw a lot in camp with zero pressure on him and he wasn't accurate to say the least.  He was wild.  Very inconsistent.  Mostly bad.   When you watch Haskins, and even scrubs like Keenum and Colt throw balls around the field back to back to back.  Haskins had the most zip.  But he was by a mile the most inaccurate especially with the real easy throws.    He had one practice where he was on fire.  And the others he was at best meh but mostly bad. 

 

So its tough for me to get that out of my head and blame the receivers or pressure on a play when there was none when he misses an open receiver. To me that's Haskins looking like training camp Haskins.  And ditto beat guys saying he didn't really have a hot camp this year either.  It paints a picture that the dude is a project.   Camp from what I observed is really interesting to judge a QB's accuracy because they are often allowed to throw with no pressure and you can watch them make a ton of throws back to back and see what they are good at and what they aren't good at. 

 

I know some here were annoyed when beat guys leaked that Kyle Smith and some scouts on the team didn't rate Haskins as a first rounder.   But IMO their take wasn't that crazy.  Haskins has talent IMO but he has a lot to work on.  Arians in his book about QBs said a key thing for him to evaluate QBs is consistency.  He likened it to a golf swing.  Some have moments but few are really consistent.  He said QBs -- same thing.  QBs with consistent footwork -- arm movement tend to excel.  Those that don't end up inconsistent and ultimately backups in the league. 

 

I am not out on Haskins.  Like I said I do like his competitive streak.  We can see him bounce back.  But if the season stays mostly like this and we can draft a potentially really good QB in this draft, no way I am giving up on that opportunity and trying to build instead around Haskins.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/gameday/haskins-going-deep

Haskins was ranked 30th by PFF with a 25.9 percent deep completion rate, a 7.2 yards per attempt rate and a 41.4 passer rating. 

 

https://www.bluechipscouting.com/articles/2019/1/9/breaking-down-haskins-a-critical-look-into-the-traits-of-this-years-qb1

If there’s one general area he struggles, it is on bucket throws outside the numbers. In the first six games of film review, he hadn’t adequately placed a single traditional deep ball effectively. There seems to be a lack of confidence in his own abilities to do so, because he often threw downfield balls too flat, not allowing his pass-catchers to run under passes despite running wide open.

Imo, there is a bit of a difference between throws from the pocket and throws made from a roll out, there is far less to account for on a roll out. He certainly has struggles with the deep stuff, but I’d take the Bryson DeChambeau approach, take more shots at getting it close in one big chunk rather than relying on 15 plays to go the length of the field. Imo, we can’t compete without bigger plays on offense, we aren’t going to go keep Haskins clean, avoid penalties, and hit enough to sustain drives with any regularity. What % of *short stuff do we need to hit on to make it more valuable than a 40% hit rate on deep shots? He needs to work on it, but like Bryson, the driver is the best club in his bag, we need to figure out a way to get more of an advantage out of it. 
 

I think this is the worst matchup possible for DH’s confidence - his backup at OSU, Joe Burrow, just put up huge numbers v Clev, I wish we were playing someone else.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:

@Skinsinparadise fantasy team must look like absolute trash.

 

😬

 

I feel bad for the Cincy ownership for a team that loaded with talent to oddly end up with the first pick in the draft. 😁

 

Seriously, AJ Green is a 32 year old banged up shadow of himself thus far.  Fantasy football? 8 catches, no TDs?  If I offered McLaurin to the Bengals for Green, I'd want at least a 2nd rounder in that package.  And I still wouldn't make the trade.  '

 

Building a team and fantasy football obviously are two different drills.  I'd hate any team with a RB by committee arrangement likes ours.   I am a big Gibson guy.  So no i wouldn't be throwing him in a trade for Mixon.  And I liked Mixon before the draft.  3.3 YPA.  Sorry I wouldn't swap Gibson for him.  I would swap Boyd for Sims.

 

Overall that trade IMO would be a steal for Cincy. 

 

 

[volsmet]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In their shoes, I would.  My gut is that Daniel Jones ends up just OK.  I don't think he's a bust.   But ends up sort of a 15th-20th in the league type of QB if you build around him.   Sadly, my impression isn't that different with Haskins.  If Lawrence or Fields look like top 10 QBs, IMO you do it. 

 

As I said I haven't watched Lance.  I don't really have an opinion on him yet.  But I favor electric mobile QB types and Lance fits that profile.  Can he throw?  Don't know, I got to watch.

I haven’t watched Lance either, I just didn’t think that particular play showed anything particularly positive. Mobility is a huge asset, I’d love a QB who could move a bit, and DH has improved a lot in that area himself. 

 

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Haskins will settle in. He has the tools. He's getting very little help though. Hopefully Turner can get the run game going a lot more and teams can't T-off on us like the Cardinals did. Then maybe the other stuff can work for Haskins.  

It’s embarrassing how little we have given him in 2 years. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

@Skinsinparadise any chance you could post the PFF for the Browns defense for last game?

 

Better than I expected, how the heck then did they give up 73 points in 2 games?

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I haven’t watched Lance either, I just didn’t think that particular play showed anything particularly positive. Mobility is a huge asset, I’d love a QB who could move a bit, and DH has improved a lot in that area himself. 

 

Agree, though I am talking beyond moving a bit.  I mean a threat with their legs, Jackson, Wilson, Watson, Murray style.

[HTTRDynasty]

Lol @ people looking using youth as a positive when comparing Cincy's supporting cast to ours right now.  Very sneaky way to prop their argument up.  We're not talking about a few years from now, we're talking about today.

[volsmet]

56 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Incredible that Ryan Tannehill wasn’t a finished product after his first season starting, with a 58% completion rate, a 76.1 passer rating and a 12 to 13 TD to INT ratio. 
 

Haskins is younger right now than Tannehill was his rookie season. 

Our fans deserve just as much pain as Dolphins fans if we run Haskins out of town.  Maybe we should be focusing on getting our QB some weapons and a capable OL, like the Titans did. 
 

 

Tannehill was atrocious v Denver. 

[GOATFrerotte]

20 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

PFT grades are nice, but every sane person on the planet would trade Terry/Sims/Gibson for Green/Boyd/Mixon.  And they’d do it in a New York minute.

Maybe if Green was in his prime. No way I'm trying Terry for any of those players. Mixon might be a slight upgrade even though I like Gibson so far. You Haskins apologists are getting a little crazy trying to say Cincy is now somehow a much more stacked team than the WFT. People have eyes, we can tell Burrow is far more advanced as a qb than Haskins is regardless of who is around him. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, volsmet said:

Tannehill was atrocious v Denver. 

 

Good thing the sample size spans more than one game then 😉.

[volsmet]

56 minutes ago, Panninho said:

Was a nice throw, should have been a catch. Hope we see some more shots down the field to Terry - dude is always open.

Should be a TD

Needs to be a catch

[CommanderInTheRye]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Then call me insane. No way I'd make that trade.  It wouldn't even be a hard decision not even a little bit.  Maybe if AJ Green was 23 again.

 

 

 

I was curious so just looked up all the QBR ratings this far which I do take more seriously than PFF grades.   I thought Baker wasn't having a hot year.   Brady, wow.  Season though is still young obviously. 

 

 

 

 

On a side note Justin Herbert, at #14 in qbr, came off the bench cold after no first team reps in 2 weeks and looked like a keeper out of the gate. (small sample size of course)