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Burgold

Where do you think Jay Gruden and Greg Manusky rank?

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I've been of the mind now for several years that we have had better talent than our record. This is due to a number of factors not least of which is injury, but it's also that while our brain trust is adequate for Chutes & Ladders, they fall short when it comes to chess. I also think they are poor motivators. Too often this team comes out flat and unprepared. When they have two weeks or ten days to prepare and the other team is coming off a short week, the Redskins still look clueless. But it's not just byes, over the course of the season, I have seen them refuse to change game plans to take advantage of an opponents weakness or the counter an exposed weakness that week after week the opponent exploits. Worse, I've seen Jay throw in the towel and give up. Sometimes, it's that he punts away the ball even with the team behind and the clock nearing zero. Other times, he acts like he's given up even before the opening kickoff.

 

In short, I don't have faith in our coaches. On a one to ten scale, I'd probably give our coaches an overall score of three.

 

That said, I'm starting this thread to hear that I'm wrong or that I'm being unfair. So, I turn the thread over to you--

 

Where do our coaches rank? Why should we trust them? In short, why am I wrong? (You can also post if you agree with me, but I'm looking for reasons to look forward to this season.)

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Jay is a mediocre coach at best.  Plays scared, doesn’t take enough chances, and is woefully inept when it comes to time management and adjustments.  He’s been the coach for 5 years now, and entering his 6th season, we clearly know what his ceiling is.  We should’ve fired him

after the Giants loss at home in 2016, and promoted Sean McVay.  That decision to let McVay walk through the door, and stick with Jay might haunt this franchise for years, possibly decades if McVay gets to more Superbowls and wins a few.

 

As for Manusky, he’s a bottom tier coach, and the one weak link holding back what should be a top 5 defensive.  We know he’s not the preferred coach of the FO, as they actually tried to replace him in the offseason, but couldn’t.

 

I feel confident that both will be fired after this season when we bottom out with a 5-11 record or worse, but I worry about who will replace them, since this organization is one of the/if not the least desirable destinations in sports for free agents and high school quality coaches.

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Here’s a fun exercise: list all of the HC’s who are in year 2+ (so nobody in year 1 of head coaching). 

 

Then say, “would I rather have that guy or Jay.”

 

I can’t do that on my phone.  

 

You could try the same with DC, but I’ll be honest, I don’t know enough about all the DC’s to really do that. 

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Jay is absolutely legit at coaching guys up and installing credible game plans...the last two years with a revolving door at WR and OL showed that.  I’ve seen him turn some chicken **** into chicken salad.  But it can get really messy for him with in-game adjustments and that’s really where the winners win...in the 4th quarter.  I do think he’s gotten a little better with age in that regard.  C+ for Jay, but I’m a soft touch.

 

Manusky?  Well, he’s got some real talent now.  Expectations are high.  Much will be revealed in 2019.

Edited by TryTheBeal!
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5 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Jay is absolutely legit at coaching guys up and installing credible game plans...the last two years with a revolving door at WR and OL showed that.  I’ve seen him turn some chicken **** into chicken salad.  But it can get really messy for him with in-game adjustments and that’s really where the winners win...in the 4th quarter.  I do think he’s gotten a little better with age in that regard.

 

Manusky?  Well, he’s got some real talent now.  Expectations are high.  Much will be revealed in 2019.

His play calling on first downs is something out of the 1930’s before the forward pass was invented.

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14 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

His play calling on first downs is something out of the 1930’s before the forward pass was invented.

 

😂

 

I can’t fight that assertion.

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This team has been decimated by injury's under Gruden's watch so it unfair to really give a accurate assessment of where he ranks. He did win the division in 2015 which is a pretty impressive thing to do under a Snyder owned team....Despite finishing 8-7-1    i felt we were a very dangerous team in 2016 and Cousins was just playing out of his mind throwing for nearly 5000 yards and a 25 -12 td/int ratio, Jay Gruden was a big part of that. 2017 was really suppose to be the year everything came together and take the next step to a division contender and make a deep playoff run but the injury bug said otherwise and then the disaster of 2018....

 

As far as Munusky goes He has done a decent job, nothing spectacular but not bad either.

 

 I think considering the circumstances, Who our owner is, and the **** luck we have had regarding injury's Gruden has done a admirable job. Plus i like his style & He's not a complete  wuss like Zorn was.

 

@Burgold Personally i don't think we have been as talented as you think, especially on the offensive side of the ball. You forget there was a time when Rob Kelly ,Samaje Perine and Matt Jones were feature running backs. Or how about 2017 when Tyrell Pryor was inked as our #1 WR 🤔 I'm not even going to get into the offensive line shuffling or the fact of how many games Jordan reed has missed or Mr Never was Josh Doctson ( what a waste of a 1st round pick) Speaking of wasted picks Mr Su Cravens got cut from the bron.... I could go on and on but yeah. I don't see the Redskins being quite the powerhouse of talent you may.

Edited by JoeJacobyHOForRIOT
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Jay is not less than mediocre.

He did lead his team to the playoffs in the 2nd season.

And since that time, he's had the distractions of the QB drama and QB Carousel, as well as the injuries.

I think the majority of coaches, if they were put in Jay's situation the last 2 years, would have done worse.

So, I would like to see how he does this year with a decent roster.

I am less optimistic about Manusky.

Hope I'm wrong, but it's hard to imagine our defensive personnel being used to their utmost advantages.

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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13 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

He did lead his team to the playoffs in the 2nd season

And in his third season the team gagged away a playoff birth 3 different times with losses to bad Arizona and Carolina teams and had one of the worst losses in the last 20 years in week 17 against the Giants.

 

Take the good with the bad, but giving him credit for 2015 without commenting about 2016 is as unfair as dinging him for 2016 without crediting him for 2015.

Edited by Voice_of_Reason
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I've soured on Jay, but not in the mood for answering this question until at least after the Philly game, spent all last year having this convo and eventually changing my answer. 

 

We get blown out for the same reasons we normally get blown out, then my answer remains unchanged.  I'm leaving door open for being wrong and both have improved, couple more days.

 

Gun to my head, we can do better, should do better, but we wont, I'm not sold we fire him if we miss the playoffs and I dont believe this a playoff roster.  Blame the chicken and the egg at the same time?  Let's jus win or lose a game first, then see if anything's changed.

 

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Gruden took charge of a bad 3-13 team and has turned it into a mediocre 7-9 team. A four win increase ain't bad, but 7-9 is still 7-9.

I don't think he's good enough to get another 4 wins a year and turn us into an 11-5 team, (but we can all dream).

 

I think his ceiling is around 9-7, so on a one to ten scale, I suppose about a six. I think he's more of a player's coach than a play-caller.

 

I'm undecided on Manusky. He's got some good players this year, so if this defense isn't in the top half of the league at the very least, then I will consider that a fail on his part, (I wanted to say top ten, but I may be overrating our players). If I had to quantify him, then probably a five.   

 

As for our cheerleaders, I'd definitely give them all 1. :)

 

TLDR: Gruden 6, Manusky 5.

 

 

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Does this scale have a - figure?

 

One of the biggest of many reasons why I shall only have a passing interest at best  in Redskins football this year. 

 

Hail. 

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2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I've soured on Jay, but not in the mood for answering this question until at least after the Philly game, spent all last year having this convo and eventually changing my answer. 

 

We get blown out for the same reasons we normally get blown out, then my answer remains unchanged.  I'm leaving door open for being wrong and both have improved, couple more days.

 

Gun to my head, we can do better, should do better, but we wont, I'm not sold we fire him if we miss the playoffs and I dont believe this a playoff roster.  Blame the chicken and the egg at the same time?  Let's jus win or lose a game first, then see if anything's changed.

 

 

We've only one once in 5 season openers since Gruden became HC.  I would argue that the one season opener he won last year doesn't really count given the circumstances (Arizona was the worst team in the league last year), so it was almost impossible to come out and be the usual unprepared, unfocused & lazy football team we usually are to start the season.  This is likely Gruden's last season opener, and arguably his most important season opener, given the opponent, and the rumors swirling around regarding his job status.  Vegas as of last week currently has Gruden as the most likely head coach to be fired, so he'd better prepare this team like his livelihood depends on it, because considering the circumstances, it does.

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13 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

We've only one once in 5 season openers since Gruden became HC.  I would argue that the one season opener he won last year doesn't really count given the circumstances (Arizona was the worst team in the league last year), so it was almost impossible to come out and be the usual unprepared, unfocused & lazy football team we usually are to start the season.  This is likely Gruden's last season opener, and arguably his most important season opener, given the opponent, and the rumors swirling around regarding his job status.  Vegas as of last week currently has Gruden as the most likely head coach to be fired, so he'd better prepare this team like his livelihood depends on it, because considering the circumstances, it does.

 

I'm not going to react to him blowing them out more then them blowing us out, not after one game, because you are right, he typically is unprepared for openers.  Maybe I'm just in denial, and tied about being upset about something when their days away from probably proving they can do better.  Nows just not the best time to ask me this question, everyone else is more then welcome to stick their flag in the sand.

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Highest paid offense in the league and the players are mostly scrubs or nobody knows such as the entire WR crew. Built by the biggest cheapskate we've had in Redskinland. Bargain shopped into the most expensive inept offense in the entire league. You could just start all the rookies and would you even see a downgrade?

 

2 TEs (for years) who don't block yet we want to run the ball 80% of the time on first down and when the third guy is in there is no mystery at all what's going to happen.

 

Does Jay Gruden have anything to do with the roster decisions such as trading for Alex Smith or not resigning Sherff? Not keeping Desean but getting garbage to replace him?  Nobody knows so nobody knows how good or bad he'd be in a normal situation as head coach but I'll go with he's not better than average or he'd be somewhere else. He was chosen by Bruce after all.

 

Manusky wasn't good before getting the Redskins DC job, just like Hazlett and Dingleberry. Doubtful that he's improved much. He was chosen by Gruden and maybe Bruce after all.

 

All of the above chosen by Doofus Dan.

 

And all he wants is to win Super Bowls!!!incompetent.jpg

 

Edited by SkinsFTW
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4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I've soured on Jay, but not in the mood for answering this question until at least after the Philly game, spent all last year having this convo and eventually changing my answer. 

 

We get blown out for the same reasons we normally get blown out, then my answer remains unchanged.  I'm leaving door open for being wrong and both have improved, couple more days.

I think only 3 posters I can think of still think Jay is a “good” or better coach.  It seems everybody else has caught up to “average at best.”

 

I still think you’re going to owe me a steak dinner in about 10 years.  :P

 

 

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1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think only 3 posters I can think of still think Jay is a “good” or better coach.  It seems everybody else has caught up to “average at best.”

 

I still think you’re going to owe me a steak dinner in about 10 years.  :P

 

I'm going to be weak if he wins 11 games this year and we still agree he sucks

Edited by Renegade7

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7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'm going to be weak if he wins 11 games this year and we still agree he sucks

If he wins 11 games this year he deserves coach of the year honors.  I don’t think that’s very likely with this roster.  Hell, I think he’d struggle to get the Rams roster to 11 wins.  

 

I’m reserving 2019 judgement until after week 5.  If they are 2-3 or better and competitive in all the games, that’s probably not a bad job.  

 

If they get boat raced 3 times and are 1-4 or worse,  it’s at least partially Jay for preparation and game planning. That wouldn’t be a good job. 

 

I think there is talent on this team, and there are ways to use it to be competitive, even with some of the roster limitations.  

 

And I think 2-3 and competitive is not the highest bar to set for a coach in year 6....

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I think Sean McVay made Gruden look better than he actually is. The offense looked really good when he was calling the plays and they went to the playoffs while he was here. The offense hasn't looked nearly as good since Sean left and with Jay calling the plays.

 

I don't think Manusky is very good either but let's see what he does with all of the defensive talent this year. If the D still doesn't perform well this year, it should be pretty clear why.

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10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If he wins 11 games this year he deserves coach of the year honors.  I don’t think that’s very likely with this roster.  Hell, I think he’d struggle to get the Rams roster to 11 wins.  

 

That's why I look at that bet and still smile about it. 

 

They could've had 11 last year, they had 6 wins after our 9th game, got curb stomped a couple times, and that Tampa game looked like Voodoo was involved.  He may never be above average, but theres no rule that says average head coaches cant win super bowls, jus look at his brother.

 

I dont agree with giving him coach of the year jus for 11 wins, but I like medium rare jus the same : )

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NFC East: 

Giants: Jay or Pat Schumur - Jay

Eagles: Jay or Doug Pederson - Pederson

Cowboys: Jay or Jason Garett. Amazingly Garrett.  Garrett seems like a fool but he’s got a 77-59 record, 3 NFC East titles and a playoff win.

 

NFC South:

Atlanta: Jay or Dan Quinn. Quinn, though it’s close because he didn’t know how to run out the clock and win a SB.  

 

Saints: Jay or Sean Payton. Payton.

 

Carolin: Jay or “Riverboat” Ron Rivera. Ron. 

 

TB Bucs: Jay or Bruce Arians.  Arians, the QB whisperer.

 

NFC North:

Green Bay: excluded, new HC with no experience.

 

Detroit: Jay or Matt Patricia. Jay.

 

Minnesota: Jay or Zimmer. I’d give this a tossup. 

 

Chicago: Jay or Matt Nagy. Nagy.

 

NFC West: 

Seattle: Jay or the super cheater **** Pete Carroll. Carroll. 

 

Rams: Jay or McVay. McVay

 

49ers: Jay or Kyle Shanahan. I’d take Kyle but could understand Jay.

 

Arizona: Excluded

 

AFC East:  

Pats: Jay or Bellichick. Billy B.

 

Jets: Jay or Adam Gase. Jay probably.  

 

Miami: excluded

 

Bills: Jay or Sean McDermott. Jay

 

AFC South:

Colts: Jay or Frank Reich.  Reich

 

Titans: Jay or Vrabel. It’s early, but probably Vrabel

 

Texans: Jay or Bill O’Brien. Toss up.  They’re the same guy. 

 

Jags: Jay or Doug Marone. Marone.  He got to the AFC Championship game with Blake Bortles.  Let that sink in...

 

AFC North:

Pittsburgh: Jay or Mike Tomlin.  Maybe Jay? Even though Tomlin has a SB?

 

Ravens: Jay or Harbaugh. Harbaugh.  Even though he’s a ****.

 

Browns: excluded

 

Bengals: excluded

 

 

AFC West:

Raiders: Jay vs. Jon. Jay

 

Broncos: excluded 

 

LA Chargers: Jay or Anthony Lynn. Probably Lynn.

 

Chiefs: Jay or Andy Reid. Reid. 

 

 

I have Jay over 6 coaches, and 3 toss ups.  5 teams excluded because they have first time HCs.

 

This could change in either direction. 

 

FWIW, NFL.com coaches power rankings have Jay ranked 22 out of the 27 non-newbie coaches.  Which is somewhat aligned to what I did above. Though not exactly because they said Jon was the 15th best coach.  And I picked Jay...

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

but theres no rule that says average head coaches cant win super bowls, jus look at his brother.

Jon went on a run for about 4 years where he was the best coach in the nfl.  He built that Raiders team to be a SB contender, and might have won one in Oakland minus the tuck rule, then went to Tampa and took Dungy’s team and beat his old team... with freaking Brad Johnson as QB.

 

Ot really was like the Bum Phillips quote about Don Shula: (paraphrased) “He could take his and beat yours, or yours and beat his.”

 

Actually the biggest knock on Bruce is he basically unraveled everything Jon did in Tampa. 

 

Jon has just become a caricature of himself.  And seemingly forgotten how to coach.  

 

But he was an awesome coach for about 4 years..

3 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

...you honest to goodness think Jay ****ing Gruden is better than Mike Tomlin?

the Steelers underperform their talent just about every year.  He’s miserable at clock management. 

 

FWIW, I’m pre-disposes to like Tomlin.  We went to the same school, and were there at the same time.  i also follow him and the Steelers very closely for this reason.  However I think he’s somewhat an average coach with an awesome roster and if he was given an average roster he’d have average results.  

 

In a vacuum I’d take him over Jay but I’m not sure he’s have better results here than Jay. 

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17 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Cowboys: Jay or Jason Garett. Amazingly Garrett.  Garrett seems like a fool but he’s got a 77-59 record, 3 NFC East titles and a playoff win.

 

 

 

 

He's also got roster talent up the ying yang.

With that roster, I think he should have done more.

Aren't they also picked to win the Super Bowl practically every year, or something close to that ? lol

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