The State of the Economy Thread - “Falling inflation, rising growth give U.S. the world’s best recovery”

[LD0506]

[tshile]

13 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

irrational and selfish? Can you explain to me how raising prices to cover increasing costs is irrational?

 

it pays to read the links when they’re provided.
 

raising prices because you can, is selfish. Read the link. It’s not to cover increasing costs. It exceeds increasing costs. And it includes C-suites saying during earning calls that they’re raising prices higher than expenses are increasing, and consumers are not changing their ways. 

 

13 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

because demand is also higher due to all the free money that has been given out. There is no price pressure because there are enough people are willing and happy to pay top dollar.

 

 

 

um. Not thats not why. There’s also a “well crap things are just more expensive” mindset. 
 

I know some of you love to blame everyone on “free money” just like the employment issue was because of increased benefits (even though economists told you it wasn’t, and after benefits went away we saw no significant change) and other nonsense like cure is worse than the disease, but try to look at actual data/evidence as opposed to making things up. 

 

 

13 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Making money is selfish? Are we all guilty?  Companies have a moral responsibility to not make money or else they are selfish?

Price gouging because you can is selfish. Profiteering off a crisis is selfish. 
 

making money isn’t selfish. Stop trying to paint people abusing a system as some sort of victim or something. 
 

we’re told the prices are going up because expenses are going up. 
 

yet profit is increasing dramatically for major producers. 
 

Use your brain and your math skills and think through what that equation must look like. 

[NoCalMike]

What a huge surprise that CEOs of Walmart, Kroger, Amazon & others communicate that magically supply chain issues are improving, a few days after it comes out that the Biden Admin was going to be looking into possible price gouging under the veil of "whoops supply chain issues, everyone!"   

 

Not that there aren't still legitimate issues and needed improvement, but as expected another excuse to gouge the consumer presented itself and it was taken.

[tshile]

And if you really get into that article, and maybe this is something Petermp was hinting at or maybe it’s the answer to his question, over the decades a lot of brands have consolidated under a parent company. Free market competition is an illusion with some areas of the economy. 
 

of only 2 companies own 99% of the cereal brands on the shelf, and they decide to raise prices, and they do it for all their brands, magically the price of cereal has gone up across the board. Creating an illusion of “everything’s getting expensive”. And sudden there is no competition  to drive prices down. 
 

they no longer have to collude with a bunch of people to price fix and market manipulate; they are the entire market at that point. They set the price and there is no competition to challenge them.

and the free market theory becomes broken. 
 

but job creators!!! Lower their taxes!!! 🙄

 

we have been convinced government is bad and can’t do anything right and anything they do will turn us into a communist nation and all the job creators and investors will flee to other countries if we dare hold them accountable in any way. When in reality we’re getting screwed and asking for more

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

it pays to read the links when they’re provided.

 

you posted an opinion piece grounded in zero facts. Why add the middle man, you can just tell me your opinion.

 

2 hours ago, tshile said:

raising prices because you can, is selfish. Read the link. It’s not to cover increasing costs. It exceeds increasing costs.

 

So only non-profit companies are ethical? How much profit is unfair? Should be let the market decide, or perhaps we should have a flat limit markup. What should it be?

 

2 hours ago, tshile said:

 

And it includes C-suites saying during earning calls that they’re raising prices higher than expenses are increasing, and consumers are not changing their ways. 

 

is that the selfish evil corporations fault, or a reaction to consumer demand? The simplist way to ensure that the product is available is to raise the price of it.

 

example:

We ran out of gas after that pipeline got hacked because people filled up their tank. If gas stations were allowed to let market forces work, hike the prices up to 10/gal, no one would have filed up their tank.

 

2 hours ago, tshile said:

 

I know some of you love to blame everyone on “free money” just like the employment issue was because of increased benefits (even though economists told you it wasn’t, and after benefits went away we saw no significant change)

 

the “economists” also said inflation was fleeting. Wooosies. Having more disposable income increases demand. It isn’t hard to understand.

 

2 hours ago, tshile said:

 

we’re told the prices are going up because expenses are going up. 
 

yet profit is increasing dramatically for major producers. 
 

Expense are going up, and prices are going up. There is strong correlation there, is there not?

Edited December 1, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[CousinsCowgirl84]

26 minutes ago, tshile said:

And if you really get into that article, and maybe this is something Petermp was hinting at or maybe it’s the answer to his question, over the decades a lot of brands have consolidated under a parent company. Free market competition is an illusion with some areas of the economy. 
 

 

that is a free market. Having government decide a company is too big and break them up is not a free market.  It ks also a response to increasing input costs. Bigger companies have deal with increasing marginal costs because thier marginal fixed cost decreases as their size increases.  
 

it is probably why you have increasing wage gap between the rich and poor.  Walmart doesn’t need as many “middle managers” as Kmart, Sears, roses, etc needed combined. 

 

 

[tshile]

7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

that is a free market. Having government decide a company is too big and break them up is not a free market.  It ks also a response to increasing input costs. Bigger companies have deal with increasing marginal costs because thier marginal fixed cost decreases as their size increases.  
 

it is probably why you have increasing wage gap between the rich and poor.  Walmart doesn’t need as many “middle managers” as Kmart, Sears, roses, etc needed combined. 

 

 

It’s like you didn’t read anything I said or the link. 

[techboy]

3 hours ago, tshile said:

raising prices because you can, is selfish. Read the link. It’s not to cover increasing costs. It exceeds increasing costs. And it includes C-suites saying during earning calls that they’re raising prices higher than expenses are increasing, and consumers are not changing their ways. 

 

I suspect that part of the reason this discussion is going in the way it is, is that before @CousinsCowgirl84edited a post from November 24, the original version said that (s)he raised prices for his/her business over the Summer, beyond the increased costs of labor and materials. i don't remember the exact numbers, but I do remember the general post. 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

18 minutes ago, techboy said:

 

I suspect that part of the reason this discussion is going in the way it is, is that before @CousinsCowgirl84edited a post from November 24, the original version said that (s)he raised prices for his/her business over the Summer, beyond the increased costs of labor and materials. i don't remember the exact numbers, but I do remember the general post. 

 

I wouldn’t have edited it to hide the fact that I increased my prices, I probably did it for conciseness.

 

But of course I would raise my prices beyond the cost of labor and materials. I’m not a non profit.  I will raise it until I have free time, then I will lower it a little. Nothing wrong rig that. People value my time. I only want to give my time to people who value me the most. 

1 hour ago, tshile said:

It’s like you didn’t read anything I said or the link. 

The link is an opinion piece. I read it and disagree with it. What specifically where you looking for me to read about it.  

You think the government has a role to play in insuring companies don’t make too much profit.

Edited December 1, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[CousinsCowgirl84]

I love how you can see exactly how the market responds to a mix of high demand and increasing input costs but yet there are people who want to argue about it.
 

Go outside. If youre wet let’s hope it’s raining. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[tshile]

44 minutes ago, techboy said:

 

I suspect that part of the reason this discussion is going in the way it is, is that before @CousinsCowgirl84edited a post from November 24, the original version said that (s)he raised prices for his/her business over the Summer, beyond the increased costs of labor and materials. i don't remember the exact numbers, but I do remember the general post. 

 

Well there seems to be a terrible communication problem here. 
 

Because I mentioned price gouging and market manipulation and what I got back was making profit means people are evil 😂 

29 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

The link is an opinion piece. I read it and disagree with it.

So you disagree with what c suite people said about what their companies are doing, why, and how consumers are responding in their earnings calls?

lol

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

What is happening isn’t price gouging.

 

 You did characterize companies as selfish.

9 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

So you disagree with what c suite people said about what their companies are doing, why, and how consumers are responding in their earnings calls?

lol

 

no. I disagree with the notion that there is something immoral about it.

[Captain Wiggles]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

What is happening isn’t price gouging.

 

Price fixing? That's certainly what has been going on. Especially at gas stations. 

 

 

[tshile]

5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

What is happening isn’t price gouging.

 

 You did characterize companies as selfish.

no. I disagree with the notion that there is something immoral about it.

I do t think you know what price gouging is

or market manipulation

nor have you read the article. 
 

You keep saying the argument t is that profit is evil. No one said that. You’re terrible at this. 

[Fergasun]

A quick Google search indicates that US Billionaire net worth went from $2 Trillion to $5 Trillion during the pandemic. The Walmart/Walton family went from $160B to $195B.  What does it indicate?  COVID has been good for the ultrawealthy.  

 

Regardless, coorporations are like the gentlemen's club in the NFL.  Have you ever seen a Corporation advertise they pay their employees well for their service, and don't just care about making max profits?  I'd shop at such a store and continue to if It really was true. But you know that store would get attackd by every angle from coorporate media, other competitors, etc. 

 

I have an impression that psychopatic and selfish billionaires hoard money and run these companies and are assisted by psychopathic and selfish millionaires on boards and high level management.  

 

I guess I should strive to be a bigger psychopath and more selfish and then I too couldn't be the poor peon that I am. 

 

 

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Have you ever seen a Corporation advertise they pay their employees well for their service, and don't just care about making max profits?  I'd shop at such a store and continue to if It really was true. But you know that store would get attackd by every angle from coorporate media, other competitors, etc

Wegmans and Costco. 
 

In fact  a few years Wegmans had to release a statement about not expanding and why. And that was why. 
 

Dell went from public to private for the same reason. 
 

it absolutely does happen. It’s just not what’s sexy in a stock market centric economy. When the goal is to maximize investors, then the real goal is to maximize profits. 
 

countless studies of companies that went public and ****ed up their whole brand just maximizing profits are out there. 
 

There’s also a very interesting angle on what China has to say about the USA MBA’ization of our economy. 
 

there’s some interesting stories out there about companies that are run by the employees. And how they make way different decisions during crisis. Like sharing pay cuts and hour cuts instead of just dumping employees. The net of it is the cost on society is less, companies fair better, employees fair better, consumers fair better, and employees value their employment much better. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

 

17 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

A quick Google search indicates that US Billionaire net worth went from $2 Trillion to $5 Trillion during the pandemic.

 

O.O

 

Youre  part of the problem! Using google? Ghasp! Feeding into the corpogov market manipulation money stealing no goo…

 

oh wait, googling didn’t exist before google? Hmm…. Created value what?

Edited December 1, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[TradeTheBeal!]

25 minutes ago, tshile said:

 You’re terrible at this. 

It’s like trying to give your cat piano lessons.  I put her up there with the sheet music, she walks on the keys and sound comes out…but it’s not really music.

 

#triplethegastax

[CousinsCowgirl84]

We really should do that, trippling the gas tax. If you did that you wouldn’t have to worry about the oil and refining cabal manipulating oil and gas prices. Dun dun dun…

 

Taxing corporations is probably more effective thatn inflating (especially artificially inflating) input costs.

Edited December 1, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[TradeTheBeal!]

[techboy]

I hadn't heard that about Wegman's, but it's definitely true about Costco. I've been a regular customer for years, and it's striking how many employees have been there all that time. Almost all of them earn excellent wages and benefits, and Costco took care of their employees during a recession too.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/reasons-love-costco_n_4275774/amp

Edited December 1, 2021 by techboy

[Riggo-toni]

I don't think the company I work for is evil. It is a paper (cardboard) manufacturer, and we went from raising prices once or twice a year to now nearly every month, and still we can't keep up with demand, despite all mills pumping out at 100% capacity 24/7. We are rationing out how much we sell - turning business away - because we just can't make enough to satisfy demand.

And what we make adds to the packaging costs of nearly everything you buy, so go figure.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Except what I am really saying it make no difference whether you keep wages high or low, there is no net effect as long as the change is sufficiently gradual  @TryTheBeal!

 

high wages don’t hurt corporations…. They got the industrial complex, offshore labor, and technology on their side. And if that don’t work they can just raise prices, like @tshile points out.  

Edited December 1, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Riggo-toni said:

I don't think the company I work for is evil. It is a paper (cardboard) manufacturer, and we went from raising prices once or twice a year to now nearly every month, and still we can't keep up with demand, despite all mills pumping out at 100% capacity 24/7. We are rationing out how much we sell - turning business away - because we just can't make enough to satisfy demand.

And what we make adds to the packaging costs of nearly everything you buy, so go figure.

Which is completely different than seeing a materials and labor expense increase of 15% and raising your pricing 30% and seeing profits soar to record highs were are 40% higher than 2019 (pre pandemic)

 

all while publicly selling a narrative that things are expensive because of the pandemic and people are lazy abd won’t work and fill out job postings. we’re really sorry about that but #pandemic. Maybe if you cut their extra benefits they’ll come back to work (implying then prices will fall back to normal)

oh if you dare consider raising our taxes we’re packing up and taking our business overseas. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by tshile

[Larry]

4 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Expense are going up, and prices are going up. There is strong correlation there, is there not?

Prices are going up, and profits are going up. There is a strong correlation there, is there not?