The State of the Economy Thread - “Falling inflation, rising growth give U.S. the world’s best recovery”

[Jabbyrwock]

2 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

It’s like trying to give your cat piano lessons.  I put her up there with the sheet music, she walks on the keys and sound comes out…but it’s not really music.

 

Cat on piano >> inflation >> Phish

[Captain Wiggles]

14 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said:

 

Cat on piano >> inflation >> Phish

 

[Larry]

3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Deleted post. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Larry

[TradeTheBeal!]

18 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said:

 

Cat on piano >> inflation >> Phish

Fair.  As even if your cat did learn to play, they would never be so cruel as to unleash the dreaded, mind-numbing “30 minute Tweezer!” on your household.

[Captain Wiggles]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Fair.  As even if your cat did learn to play, they would never be so cruel as to unleash the dreaded, mind-numbing “30 minute Tweezer!” on your household.

 

Not even Poster Nutbag?

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

Prices are going up, and profits are going up. There is a strong correlation there, is there not?  

Of course…

 

I just don’t know why everyone is trying to villainize companies for maximizing their profit. It’s what they are designed to do.  
 

Is it selfish to demand that companies choose to pay for increases in input costs by reducing in leu of profit?  
 

why are we railing against companies increasing prices when we are all supporting the increase in prices by being willing to pay, whatever it costs? Are companies the problem or is consumerism? 
 

In before “but companies created consumerism”

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Larry]

5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I just don’t know why everyone is trying to villainize companies for maximizing their profit. It’s what they are designed to do.

 

Right.  We got it.  

 

Corporations have no morality whatsoever other than maximizing their own profit.  And There's nothing wrong with them doing that.  No one should ever even complain about it.  

 

Corporations maximizing their profit - not immoral.  

Message board posters complaining about it - immoral.  

 

In your opinion.  

 

------

 

Oh, and by the way.  Corporations didn't make those decisions that you're trying to claim are exempt from all moral judgement.  People did.  So I guess your point is that people are exempt from all morality, when they work for a corporation, too.  

 

I've heard the point before.  Thousands of times.  Been full of **** every single time.  Repeating it another 20 times won't change that.  

Edited December 2, 2021 by Larry

[TradeTheBeal!]

The southern plantation owners were only maximizing profits.  Stop demonizing them.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

5 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

 

Message board posters complaining about it - immoral.  

 

 

Not immoral. Just, pointless…. In a missing the point sort of way.  

 

And the solution isn’t “make them pay more” we can see how that is turning out. I don’t know why people still dwell on minimum wage like it’s a pancea - or even remotely useful as a tool to make people’s lives better.

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

The southern plantation owners were only maximizing profits.  Stop demonizing them.

collect unemployment. Or not. Start your own business. Or not . Get an education. Or not. 
 

The world is an oyster. Figure out how to crack it, or not. Your choice.

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[CousinsCowgirl84]

13 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

 

Oh, and by the way.  Corporations didn't make those decisions that you're trying to claim are exempt from all moral judgement.  People did. 

 

People who are getting paid to do a job and get paid more the better they do at their job.  Hard to flip a burger any better than the next guy though… it’s ok we will pay you 20 dollars an hour just to shut you up before we bring in the robot flipper.  Go work for doordash till they figure out the drones….

 

13 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[Captain Wiggles]

Duuuuuuuude that cat can really tickle the ivories. Definitly some Type II jamming in there. How's he able to memorize the entire piece? 

Edited December 2, 2021 by clietas

[NoCalMike]

How did this morph from "companies raising prices out of necessity" which not many people if anyone at all, was arguing with to "of course they are going to price gouge, that is what they are there to do"   Two different things completely and on top of that I think the main point from all this was the manipulation that is going on with help from the media (damn near ALL of the media) by putting out the public perception that all the raised prices are absolutely necessary due to inflation and supply-chain issues when it turns out, actually no, some of it is merely taking advantage of the situation to add even more on top of the increased prices.  If prices were simply raised to cover the increased costs of doing business it would be hard to argue with that, but that isn't what's going.  

 

Something tells me if that if the media was accurately reporting how & why the prices were being raised, there would be a lot different reaction by the masses and some of these companies would reverse course, but like usual whether on Fox or MSNBC or CNN, all owned and operated by many of the same parent companies as these large corporations, they will fight with each other over politics, but when it comes their bank accounts they manage to find the common ground of corporatism. 

 

I don't care if you call it Capitalism or not, it doesn't magically solve the problem.  We have an economic system that is great at producing wealth, but horrible at figuring out what to do with the generated wealth. It is long past time people stop putting blind faith into an "ism" 

Edited December 2, 2021 by NoCalMike

[CousinsCowgirl84]

16 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

.  If prices were simply raised to cover the increased costs of doing business it would be hard to argue with that, but that isn't what's going.  

 

 

but, why bother arguing the point. Increased costs are a factor. High demand is a factor. At the end of the day does it matter why prices are going up?  I don’t know what point we are tying to make.
 

 

16 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I don't care if you call it Capitalism or not, it doesn't magically solve the problem.  We have an economic system that is great at producing wealth, but horrible at figuring out what to do with the generated wealth. It is long past time people stop putting blind faith into an "ism" 

no disagreement! 
 

However, it’s silly to say corporation x should make less pay to produce the same amount of y and at the same time argue worker bee z should get paid more to produce the same amount of y.

 

 

I think that is the argument that is being taken by many here.

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[NoCalMike]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

but, why bother arguing the point. Increased costs are a factor. High demand is a factor. At the end of the day does it matter why prices are going up?  I don’t know what point we are tying to make.
 

 

 

 

The point being made is that after a dreadful 2020, where most of these issues began, I think the American people would understand why a certain level of inflation is going to take place as we attempt to get everything moving again, however, when corporations are adding additional price increases on top for no other reason than to increase profits, then it should be accurately reported instead of pretending it is all due to supple-chain issues.  You ask if it matters, I would say accuracy in reporting matters. I would also say yes, it does matter why they are going up, if the supply-chain is causing a $1.00 increase in an item, but the corporation decides to take advantage of the situation and raise the item by $4.00 instead, yes it absolutely matters why the price increased by $4.00 instead of $1.00, because the reason things happen is probably more important so we now how to actually remedy the situation. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

5 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

The point being made is that after a dreadful 2020, where most of these issues began, I think the American people would understand why a certain level of inflation is going to take place as we attempt to get everything moving again, however, when corporations are adding additional price increases on top for no other reason than to increase profits, then it should be accurately reported instead of pretending it is all due to supple-chain issues.  You ask if it matters, I would say accuracy in reporting matters. I would also say yes, it does matter why they are going up, if the supply-chain is causing a $1.00 increase in an item, but the corporation decides to take advantage of the situation and raise the item by $4.00 instead, yes it absolutely matters why the price increased by $4.00 instead of $1.00, because the reason things happen is probably more important so we now how to actually remedy the situation. 

 

Why shouldn’t a company have the ability to charge what they want in most cases?

 

A TV, a phone, a car…. Not necessities?

 

We have redefined necessities to become anything we want.

 

If the demand is there, why shouldn’t a company charge more for what they make?

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[NoCalMike]

29 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Why shouldn’t a company have the ability to charge what they want in most cases?

 

A TV, a phone, a car…. Not necessities?

 

We have redefined necessities to become anything we want.

 

If the demand is there, why shouldn’t a company charge more for what they make?

 

Ok maybe I am not being clear enough.  This isn't about whether they can/are allowed to.  This is about accurately reporting the reason.  The reason it matters to distinguish because the economy, inflation, wages etc etc....all have ramifications with voters.   Pushing the narrative that there are policies in place by the current Administration that caused the inflation or is perpetuating/extending it when in reality it is untrue should matter.  When people see increased prices and immediately go to "inflation" as the root cause, it matters that the media informs or at least attempts to inform the viewers as much as possible as to the cause(s).  I think it makes a difference to a potential voter whether they feel a $5.00 increase in an item can be attributed to policy vs a $1.00 (or less) increase.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

22 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

...all have ramifications with voters.   Pushing the narrative that there are policies in place by the current Administration that caused the inflation or is perpetuating/extending it when in reality it is untrue should matter.  When people see increased prices and immediately go to "inflation" as the root cause, it matters that the media informs or at least attempts to inform the viewers as much as possible as to the cause(s).  I think it makes a difference to a potential voter whether they feel a $5.00 increase in an item can be attributed to policy vs a $1.00 (or less) increase.  

well, I have to say, I don’t much care for the politics of the situation. It’s a shame we are more concerned about who gets blamed for what than coming up with solutions. I don’t blame the current administration for inflation.

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[LD0506]

9 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

If the demand is there, why shouldn’t a company charge more for what they make?

 

 

It's just good business..................

[TradeTheBeal!]

Traitors to their shareholders, possibly communists.

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

37 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

It's just good business..................

Yes it is.  Obviously some things need price regulation, but the list is shorter than people think.
 

The net effect of regulation in the drug industry is that prices can be set artificially high. 

[techboy]

11 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Ok maybe I am not being clear enough.  This isn't about whether they can/are allowed to.  This is about accurately reporting the reason.  

 

The other angle here that hasn't been discussed yet is that many of these Econ 101 theories being tossed around willy nilly have as an unspoken assumption that there is perfect information being accessed by rational actors. It's true to an extent... If companies raise prices and people think it's unfair, they can exercise their power not to buy that product and then the companies have to lower prices again to make a profit.

 

Issues arise because people aren't totally rational actors (not much can be done about that), and they're not well informed. If all the news talks about is rampant inflation and supply chain issues, people are going to assume that price increases are solely related to that. It's hard to say the burger restaurant shouldn't raise the price of a cheesburger if buying beef costs more.

 

What's going on, though, is that many companies are raising prices because they can get away with it, since most people are just going to think it's because of inflation and supply chain issues, and it's not, at least not in total.

 

[tshile]

12 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Why shouldn’t a company have the ability to charge what they want in most cases?

 

A TV, a phone, a car…. Not necessities?

 

We have redefined necessities to become anything we want.

 

If the demand is there, why shouldn’t a company charge more for what they make?

the problem is your simplistic view of everything. 
 

monopolies. Price gouging. Market manipulation. Vertical vs horizontal expansion juxtaposed to purchasing competing brands, etc etc etc. 

 

you might as well just be a libertarian. Ie: holding onto a grossly naive theory on how things should/do work, that falls to **** once you actually apply it in real world and pay attention. 

[PleaseBlitz]

2 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Traitors to their shareholders, possibly communists.

 

 

 

This is the result of a CFPB report that just came out yesterday.

 

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-research-shows-banks-deep-dependence-on-overdraft-fees/

 

Quote

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Banks continue to rely heavily on overdraft and non-sufficient funds (NSF) revenue, which reached an estimated $15.47 billion in 2019, according to research released today by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). Three banks—JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, and Bank of America—brought in 44% of the total reported that year by banks with assets over $1 billion. The CFPB also found that while small institutions with overdraft programs charged lower fees on average, consumer outcomes were similar to those found at larger banks. The research also notes that, despite a drop in fees collected, many of the fee harvesting practices persisted during the COVID-19 pandemic.

 

“Rather than competing on quality service and attractive interest rates, many banks have become hooked on overdraft fees to feed their profit model,” said CFPB Director Rohit Chopra. “We will be taking action to restore meaningful competition to this market.”

 

Previous CFPB research has shown that overdraft presents serious risks to consumers, with under 9% of consumer accounts paying 10 or more overdrafts per year, accounting for close to 80% of all overdraft revenue. Yesterday, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation released data revealing that insured banks earned $69.5 billion in the third quarter of 2021, up 36% from the prior year. Banks are on pace to surpass their pre-pandemic profitability.

 

Capital One is extremely risk adverse.  They got out of the mortgage business entirely in like 2018 because of all the legal risk.  They are trying to get out in front of the coming storm. 

 

Wells Fargo will continue to steal your children if they can make a profit. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

23 minutes ago, tshile said:

the problem is your simplistic view of everything. 
 

monopolies. Price gouging. Market manipulation. Vertical vs horizontal expansion juxtaposed to purchasing competing brands, etc etc etc. 

 

you might as well just be a libertarian. Ie: holding onto a grossly naive theory on how things should/do work, that falls to **** once you actually apply it in real world and pay attention. 

I don’t think your response is an answer to my question.
 

 

Why shouldn’t a company have the ability to charge what they want in most cases?

 

and, importantly and in conjunction with the first;

if the demand is there, why shouldn’t a company charge more for what they make?

 

33 minutes ago, techboy said:

 

 

 

What's going on, though, is that many companies are raising prices because they can get away with it, since most people are just going to think it's because of inflation and supply chain issues, and it's not, at least not in total.

 

And what is wrong with that? In seems like you are say consumers are dumb and act irrationally and that is the corporations fault because they are too good if a salesman and you don’t like it. If the consumer is happy to buy the product at a higher price and the company is happy to sell the product at a happier price then it seems like everyone is happy. We are complaining about what?

 

Imagine the scenerio where the company cuts prices. Now the consumer wants two products, but the company can only produce the same amount of products. Now there aren’t enough products for everyone and some people are sad. 
 

Think of the people!

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84