The State of the Economy Thread - “Falling inflation, rising growth give U.S. the world’s best recovery”

[Captain Wiggles]

It's almost as if there should be an entire Bureau that Protects Consumers. 

 

 

 

Oh wait. 😁 

Edited December 2, 2021 by clietas

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Well, with the internet now it should be possible to create “consumer unions” similar to how people call for boycotts against company z when they do something they don’t like, but on a more sustained basis. 

 

 

Like Costco, but for real this time.

 

 

I’m not saying the government has no role in governing businesses either.
 

It’s just pointless, hypocritical, and incorrect to say companies are evil because they are raising prices.  

15 minutes ago, clietas said:

It's almost as if there should be an entire Bureau that Protects Consumers. 

 

 

 

Oh wait. 😁 

Is that bureau ran by the groups that we are supposed to be protected from?

[PleaseBlitz]

18 minutes ago, clietas said:

It's almost as if there should be an entire Bureau that Protects Consumers. 

 

 

 

Oh wait. 😁 

 

From price gouging?  Which one is that?

[gbear]

Perfect information is only one way the ECON 101 theory of supply and demand breaks in the real world.  There is also the lack of an option number 2.  Yes, if I have to chose between option 1 and option 2, and I have perfect information, I am more likely to make a reasonable choice.  However, we often have an illusion of choice.  When you go looking for a gas station and all 5 near you are priced within a penny per gallon despite being different chains.  Many of them may even have a common supplier.  We have cell phone companies, but only a couple that compete nationally, and even they all use the same infrastructure to make the calls go through.  We have hospital chains completely dominate large geographic areas.  Many sectors of our economy barely offer anything like a viable second option.  Yes, we have laws to protect us from monopolies, but their enforcement is far less than when they were written.  

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Is that bureau ran by the groups that we are supposed to be protected from?

 

Only when a Republican is President. 

[Captain Wiggles]

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

From price gouging?  Which one is that?

 

Yes but only during a state of emergency I believe. Virginia n West Virginia I know have anti price gouging laws.

 

 

7 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Is that bureau ran by the groups that we are supposed to be protected from?

 

Prolly depends on who controls the executive branch. As well as who is the AG of any given state if I had to guess. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Only when a Republican is President. 

Reminds me of Tesla fan people getting all upset when that woman who was critical of Tesla’s full self driving system was appointed by Biden to the NTSB or NHSTA?. 
 

Y’all know I’m a fan, but yes, accountability is important. And as autonomous driving programs take off, you need people who aren’t yes men, otherwise bad things happen.

[TradeTheBeal!]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Reminds me of Tesla fan people getting all upset when that woman who was critical of Tesla’s full self driving system was appointed by Biden to the NTSB or NHSTA?. 
 

Y’all know I’m a fan, but yes, accountability is important. And as autonomous driving programs take off, you need people who aren’t yes men, otherwise bad things happen.

 

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2021/11/opinion-how-many-deaths-does-tesla-consider-acceptable/

[CousinsCowgirl84]

10 minutes ago, gbear said:

.  When you go looking for a gas station and all 5 near you are priced within a penny per gallon despite being different chains.  Many of them may even have a common supplier. 
 

ride a bike… take the bus. Also helps with the whole global warming climate change thing. Infrastructure too.

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, gbear said:

We have cell phone companies, but only a couple that compete nationally, and even they all use the same infrastructure to make the calls go through.  We have hospital chains completely dominate large geographic areas.  Many sectors of our economy barely offer anything like a viable second option.

 

but the alternative is to not have cell phones? Can you imagine how expensive they would be if everyone cell phone company has to invest in their own infrastructure? And if there were 20 of them? High fixed cost spread over fewer customers?

 

sure there would be more competition and the companies wouldn’t make as much profit, but your cost would t decrease.

10 minutes ago, gbear said:

 

 

[tshile]

56 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

don’t think your response is an answer to my question.
 

 

Why shouldn’t a company have the ability to charge what they want in most cases?

 

and, importantly and in conjunction with the first;

if the demand is there, why shouldn’t a company charge more for what they make?

 

Because your question is stupid within the context of what has been said. I have pointed it out multiple times. Yet here you are, asking it again.

 

you wouldn’t ask that question if you understood the conversation you were partaking in. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

Because your question is stupid within the context of what has been said. I have pointed it out multiple times. Yet here you are, asking it again.

 

you wouldn’t ask that question if you understood the conversation you were partaking in. 

You keep talking and saying nothing at the same time.

[tshile]

Well I tried saying things but that clearly doesn’t work with you 

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it think 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Don’t make me post another cat piano video in here!

[techboy]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

And what is wrong with that? In seems like you are say consumers are dumb and act irrationally and that is the corporations fault because they are too good if a salesman and you don’t like it.

 

I didn't assign "fault". I simply pointed out why some of the basic Econ 101 theories being tossed around don't actually fully explain or account for current pricing and behavior. 

 

As I implied before, I suspect you're a little sensitive to the topic because you yourself have raised prices beyond what was needed because of rising prices of labor and goods, and it's making you defensive.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

9 minutes ago, tshile said:

Well I tried saying things but that clearly doesn’t work with you 

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it think 

You’ve started with the assumption that duopolies are a bad thing. That’s what your posts come down to. Because there isn’t perfect competition companies setting the price is wrong. I disagree. We both have opinions.

 

I have also provided examples where competition results in outcomes that are bad for all the stakeholders.

Edited December 2, 2021 by CousinsCowgirl84

[tshile]

5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Because there isn’t perfect competition companies setting the price is wrong

No.  Not what I said. Not what the rest of us are talking about. 
 

idk what to tell you. You clearly have a comprehension issue on this subject.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

7 minutes ago, techboy said:

 

I didn't assign "fault". I simply pointed out why some of the basic Econ 101 theories being tossed around don't actually fully explain or account for current pricing and behavior. 

 

As I implied before, I suspect you're a little sensitive to the topic because you yourself have raised prices beyond what was needed because of rising prices of labor and goods, and it's making you defensive.

I’m not defensive about but I’d like to know what is “wrong” about it, some people seem to think it is wrong

[CousinsCowgirl84]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

No.  Not what I said. Not what the rest of us are talking about. 
.

 

1 hour ago, tshile said:

the problem is your simplistic view of everything. 
 

monopolies. Price gouging. Market manipulation. Vertical vs horizontal expansion juxtaposed to purchasing competing brands, etc etc etc. 

 

??? What was I supposed to get from this post then? And your article which talks about the “illusion of choice” and companies being sneaky by increasing prices gradually?

[PleaseBlitz]

I feel like this thread, ON THE ECONOMY, is getting close to "threads that get locked by the mods" territory.  

[tshile]

Meh. It’s going to be an ongoing thing for a while. Until we reach a point where covid isn’t shocking the system every 3-6 months. 
 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

Meh. It’s going to be an ongoing thing for a while. Until we reach a point where covid isn’t shocking the system every 3-6 months. 
 

 

 

No.  Not what I said. Not what the rest of us are talking about. 
 

idk what to tell you. You clearly have a comprehension issue on this subject.

[tshile]

Oh my god I’m so dumb  

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, tshile said:

Meh. It’s going to be an ongoing thing for a while. Until we reach a point where covid isn’t shocking the system every 3-6 months. 

 

Gloabl Economy and governments are gonna need to learn how to not overreact every 3-6 months because covid isn't going anywhere.  It bothers me to accept this, but its the only way to figure out how to move forward. 

 

Too many people are wanting a return to the old normal, its gone, its never coming back, this is akin to a post-9/11 world, it will never be like it was before.

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Gloabl Economy and governments are gonna need to learn how to not overreact every 3-6 months because covid isn't going anywhere.  It bothers me to accept this, but its the only way to figure out how to move forward. 

 

Too many people are wanting a return to the old normal, its gone, its never coming back, this is akin to a post-9/11 world, it will never be like it was before.

yeah I’m on the same page as you, except that while we’re having devastating spikes that’s gonna mess stuff up because you can’t really plan for that. 
 

but on some level - yes it’s time to accept the new normal. The old normal is gone. End of story. 
 

im routinely frustrated by business decisions I’m privy to that are built on waiting for things to get better. I get that mindset last summer. Now? It’s time to accept and move forward. 

[PeterMP]

On 12/1/2021 at 2:19 PM, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

that is a free market. Having government decide a company is too big and break them up is not a free market.  It ks also a response to increasing input costs. Bigger companies have deal with increasing marginal costs because thier marginal fixed cost decreases as their size increases.  
 

it is probably why you have increasing wage gap between the rich and poor.  Walmart doesn’t need as many “middle managers” as Kmart, Sears, roses, etc needed combined. 

 

In economics generally, a free market is not generally what you are saying (though people do use the term differently but realistically what you are describing is best and most precisely called Laissez-faire capitalism).

 

In a free market (generally in economics language), prices and costs respond to supply and demand.  Entities that functionally act as monopolies then prevent free markets because supply and demand is no longer very relevant to prices.

 

Laissez-faire capitalism hasn't historically generated functional free markets.

Edited December 3, 2021 by PeterMP