WaPo: Weight discrimination is rampant. Yet in most places it’s still legal.

[volsmet]

4 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

nsfw (language)

Oh bull****.

Anyone who gives up added sugars, refined carbs and sticks to fish, lean meats, non-starch veggies and low carb fruit and gets some degree of exercise will lose weight unless they are on some kind of meds.

 

I suspect many would tell you that your diabetes is easily fixed with a dietary change, how long would you stay on it to see if it’s true? 

 

Is depression a choice? 

 

Can all single parents eat the way you described above? 

 

It’s possible for most to avoid becoming obese, but the recovery from it is more than you make it out to be, imo. Many diabetics can’t exercise much, I know a lot of hard working people who have fought weight issues their entire lives ... many get atrocious advice from Drs, who’s fault is it when the books a dr read in medical school are actually worthless? 

 

 

[volsmet]

 

Eat 5 times a day

Eat your fruits & vegetables 

Make sure you get breakfast 

Limit fat intake

 

All bad advice, all given as a matter of routine to diabetics. 

 

The most important element, sleep. Not an option for many parents. That eliminates the most vital part of any diet immediately. People follow these steps & see no improvement... that’s not because they chose not to improve themselves.

 

 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

I think my posts should be fixed. Pretty sure it was a chrome extension for my college course that was messing it up. 

 

So to get back to the OP....there is no need to make "obesity" a protected group. 

 

EEO currently includes - "Bases (protected groups) under EEO are: race, color, national origin, religion, age, sex (gender), sexual orientation, physical or mental disability, and reprisal."

 

So if there is true discrimination due to weight, that should fall under "physical or mental disability". IMO if it's not severe enough to be classified as a disability, then there is not a case to say over weight caused discrimination. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

52 minutes ago, Destino said:

That's simply admitting the reality of what they are and have always been, akin to calling the opening of your eyes a choice to reveal their color to the world.  Imagine if people with green eyes demand those with blue keep their eyes closed because they didn't want to be forced to look upon them?  Madness. 

 

I agree, it wasn’t my point though.  Choosing to let it be known is what would allow them to be desciminated against.  You cant discriminate against blue eyed people unless they choose to open their eyes.  If you want choice to be the line between what is acceptable to discriminate for that is a poor line to make.  (for the reasons you point out)

 

@thegreaterbuzzette I know, felony conviction is a form of descrimination that i personally think should not happen.  My point is committing the felony is a CHOICE.

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

I suspect many would tell you that your diabetes is easily fixed with a dietary change, how long would you stay on it to see if it’s true? 

 

 

Uh, I have stayed on it for twenty years.

So, I would/will/have stayed on it indefinitely. I have seen some people reverse their diabetes, but all of them were obese and once they lost weight, their bodies could produce adequate insulin for their reduced needs. In my case, I was never obese and I can't lose more weight, but I still maintain a diet moderately low in carbs and saturated fat.

My wife used to struggle with her weight and went on every fad diet there was...for about two weeks. Then she was hit with auto-immune disorder similar to rheumatoid arthritis. Now if she eats anything high in sugar or carbs she ends up in severe pain.  So now she keeps up with her diet and has no more weight problems.

People whose obesity is caused by medications or genetics are the exception, NOT the rule. The typical American diet is abysmal.

I agree about one thing- most doctors are WORTHLESS when it comes to nutrition.  Same goes for veterinarians, actually.

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

The most important element, sleep. Not an option for many parents. That eliminates the most vital part of any diet immediately. People follow these steps & see no improvement... that’s not because they chose not to improve themselves. 

 

People behave according to incentives, many of which are outside their effective control.  Obesity is like poverty.  These kinds of discussions about changing public policy and cultures are a lot more productive when we don't start with an assumption of the moral inferiority of the people who have the problems we presumably want to fix.

[TheGreatBuzz]

5 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

People whose obesity is caused by medications or genetics are the exception, NOT the rule.

 

I'm on like 5 different medications right now while I am recovering from a work accident.  The doctors warned me that 2 of the medications cause weight gain.  Over the last 18 months I have put on 5 pounds.  I'm now a wopping 145 pounds.  Though the way my metabolism is, I'm the exception NOT the rule.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

7 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

@thegreaterbuzzette I know, felony conviction is a form of descrimination that i personally think should not happen.  My point is committing the felony is a CHOICE.

 

 

But keep in mind, it is not a protected class. It is an initiative to help society, however an employer can't be charged for discrimination against an applicant due to action taken due to their felon status. 

[Bang]

Why not? Nothing is anyone's fault.

 

Rascals being ridden around wal mart by bloated bags of water, filled to the brim with frozen foods and chips.. 

 

Who says anyone has any choice at all in anything? People are predisposed for a multitude of reasons to buy a double bag of potato chips that costs the same amount as a bag of apples. And none of it is their own fault. None of it can be traced at all down to their own choices, regardless of advertising blitzes, product placement and a million other ways to trip people into the abysses that surround us.

Lets make heroin addicts a protected class.
we're all victims.

 

~Bang

[Llevron]

9 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

You guys are rediculous.

 

Shut yo ass up! 

[TradeTheBeal!]

I’m gonna have a salad for lunch today.

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I’m gonna have a salad for lunch today.

 

or you could have this 1 dolla cheeseburger. 

 

And I know you like cheeseburgers. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

or you could have this 1 dolla cheeseburger. 

 

And I know you like cheeseburgers. 

 

Heck yeah!  Had cheeseburgers for dinner last night.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Heck yeah!  Had cheeseburgers for dinner last night.

 

I notice the plurality in that statement. Did you get that 2 or 2 deal? The jank that comes with the free, super addictive, extra large sugar drink? 

[The Evil Genius]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

People behave according to incentives, many of which are outside their effective control.  Obesity is like poverty.  These kinds of discussions about changing public policy and cultures are a lot more productive when we don't start with an assumption of the moral inferiority of the people who have the problems we presumably want to fix.

 

Case in point the half dozen posts after yours. 

[Riggo-toni]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 These kinds of discussions about changing public policy and cultures are a lot more productive when we don't start with an assumption of the moral inferiority of the people who have the problems we presumably want to fix.

 

[Going Commando]

31 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Case in point the half dozen posts after yours. 

 

We don't understand the nature of the problem, and that goes for almost all of us.  The way we talk about obesity reminds me of the way even the fairly progressive corners of society talked about drug addiction 15 years ago.  We are nowhere near being ready and able to tackle this problem, and it's going to get worse before it gets better IMO.

[Llevron]

34 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Case in point the half dozen posts after yours. 

 

I think we were trying to make the same point, hes just more elegant with his words than I am. This country has a problem with obesity, not just its people. Its a problem created. It didnt just happen. Thats what I think atleast. 

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I think we were trying to make the same point, hes just more elegant with his words than I am. This country has a problem with obesity, not just its people. Its a problem created. It didnt just happen. Thats what I think atleast.  

 

I'm not presuming the moral inferiority of people who judge people with obesity as morally inferior either, because I think it comes from a lack of understanding rather than a moral failing.  I truly believe that obesity is one of those widespread public health problems akin to drug addiction and poverty and depression.  These ills are tremendously complex and addressing them will probably require changing cultures and macroeconomics and that is extremely difficult to tackle.  It's human nature to respond aggressively and with discrimination to threats and problems that confront us.   What the article was getting at is that obesity hasn't been as destigmatized yet as other common public health problems like addiction and depression.  I think that is true in almost every level of society that confronts the problem, including the academic and legal level that usually takes a lead role in addressing public health crises.

[The Evil Genius]

There are definitely some major socio-economic factors at play. Like why does low value high calorie/fats food dominate american supermarkets and cost the consumer less than other healthy foods? How can low income families afford to buy these healthier options?

 

[PeterMP]

35 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

There are definitely some major socio-economic factors at play. Like why does low value high calorie/fats food dominate american supermarkets and cost the consumer less than other healthy foods? How can low income families afford to buy these healthier options?

 

 

I don't think that healthy foods actually are more expensive than non-healthy foods.  Where I shop bananas, cheap apples, frozen vegetables, and beans are still some of the cheapest things to buy per a mass unit.

 

I don't think obesity is tied to poverty in the manner of not being able to afford healthy food.  I suspect it is more tied at the level of decision making (people that are tired, stressed, and poorly educated tend to make poorer decisions).

 

There are some cases where food deserts are real and are a real issue so easy availability is an issue for some.

 

As for the rest:

 

There is an addictive/adaptive part to obesity, especially once people are obese.  Studies show that hunger and food trigger some of the same areas of the brain that addictive chemicals.

 

Further, once you've gained weight your body does set that as its new "normal".  It then works to maintain that weight by sending hunger signals when below that weight and slowing down the metabolism (most of the energy you burn in a day is not due to exercise or even physical activity of any kind, but just basic cellular maintenance).

 

There is no doubt that part of the obesity issues in the US are tied to the effectiveness of advertising and the tailoring and targeting of it to children is a large part of the issue.

 

The government has tried at different times to control it, but the food industry has done a very good job of lobbying the government to minimize regulations on marketing to kids.  And overweight kids become obese adults.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Obligatory and NSFW.

 

 

 

 

Anyhoo...I think climate change is gonna take care of most of the world’s obesity problems pretty soon.

[PeterMP]

I will add though, that I'm not for making weight discrimination illegal.  Weight does have real affects, it doesn't make sense to me force society to pretend like it doesn't.

 

We (as a society, including government) have to do more to fight obesity and help people that are overweight, but it isn't something that we should also pretend is just neutral, without causes, and uncontrollable.

[Bang]

It is definitely a complex problem, and I agree with Peter in that the cost argument isn't really one I agree with. Eating healthiER is not that much more than eating straight all the processed and pre-packed garbage. A personj doesn't have to eat all the fru-fru bull**** healthy crap at Whole foods,, they can just as easily buy a carton of frozen peas from any supermarket anywhere. Buy an apple. Buy some broccoli. HealthiER choices are all around.

I think poor choices creates most of the problem. It's late, i'm tired, it's easier to feed my kid microwaved processed garbage than to cook a decent meal. (which really doesn't require that much more work, so long as you're willing to accept that you may have to wash a dish. it has also been my experience many people are somehow allergic to this process)
 

No matter WHAT..  in the end it boils down to personal choice.

I made bad choices about food and drink. 2 years ago i made a new choice and have dropped 30 lbs just by simply changing what I am consuming. I am not spending any more.. i am just not eating and drinking so much junk.

I have done a LOT of drugs.

LOTS of them over my life.

I never became a junky.
know why? i said "no", and I didn't do it.

Personal choices.

Personal responsibility.. REGARDLESS of the advertising, REGARDLESS of the addictive properties, REGARDLESS of any peer pressures.. it all boils down to you making a decision to do that which is right, or that which is wrong.

 

I'm the worst person o ask in these situations. I have done bad things. I stopped doing them. I was a single parent, and for much of that time i never made more than 36-40k per year due to other bad choices i made earlier on,,  but i didn't feed my kid nuggets every night, didn't teach him to be a slovenly slob. i was damn sure tired, i was damn sure poor, and we didn't eat like kings, but we ate real food, properly cooked each night.
Know why? Because i decided that was what we had to do. I didn't decide '**** it, i'm too tired". (Many of those nights i made scrambled eggs, anyway. what's easier? Nothing. what's cheaper? Nothing. Here's some apple slices to go with it, and it's better than that McDonalds junk.)

So i am nothing but anecdotal evidence. But it's enough for me. All your problems? I've had them, and then some. Why am i not a junky? I stopped at those lines.  Why am i not obese? I changed my habits after seeing and disliking vthe long term result. why is my son not obese? why does he have a solid work ethic?
not because i needed any ****ing government protection, i can assure you.

Nobody helps you, and those who expect it to happen need to get off their ass and quit crying that everything happening to them is not their fault. guess what? It doesn't mater if it isn't your fault or not. It's on YOU to handle it.

 

For the ONE person out of the group with a hyperactive whatever gland that makes them fat, i get it. True medical issues can't be helped. But for the overwhelming majority, the issue is they can't do the right thing because they refuse to do the right thing. They get worse and worse and worse, and inevitably if enough people join them in their bad choices, then they get protection because magically it isn't their fault anymore.

 

this isn't skin pigmentation, this isn't sexual orientation, this isn't something you are born with. This is entirely up to the individual. Entirely. 

Like i said.. may as well make heroin addicts a protected class. Nobody wants to be a junky, and it's not fair that what they decided to do addicted them, just as it's not fair that the people who sell it to them are unscrupulous ****s who would love nothing better than for you to become hooked on their product and buy it until it kills you.
In fact, they engineer Doritos specifically to addict you and trick your body into thinking it hasn't eaten anything, while you chow down a whole bag of them.
https://nypost.com/2013/10/03/why-doritos-are-as-addictive-as-crack/

 

Reasons a few people are obese: Legit medical issue.
Reason the majority of obese people are unbelievably obese: Continual piss poor choices, inability to handle personal dietary responsibility, lack of self discipline, self inflicted ignorance.
Reason why NO ONE is obese:  Someone else victimized them.

 

As to what to do..? Cut their ****ing insurance off. I mean, what happened when municipalities tried to suggest maybe banning a bucket of soda might help?
 Friggin' Armageddon. For the right to drink 96 ounces of soda at a time. " Victims" .

 

~Bang

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said:

There are definitely some major socio-economic factors at play. Like why does low value high calorie/fats food dominate american supermarkets and cost the consumer less than other healthy foods? How can low income families afford to buy these healthier options?

 

 

I've thought about this before.  Part of me wonders the same as you.  But when I see a large woman at Wal-mart with 4 portly kids with a shopping cart full of Mountain Dew and other junk food another part of me wonders if they'd really care to eat anything healthy in the first place.

 

I believe @Bang is largely right.  I agree that there's a portion of people that really can't do anything about it.  But part of our downfall, IMO, is the lack of accepting responsibility.  People don't want to lose weight because it's hard, it's uncomfortable...yet they want to be a protected class.  We're not just soft around the middle.