2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[volsmet]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Tua is falling for me. Not talent wise... but the more I listen to and hear from people the more I think he’s going to fall because of the hip. GMs put their careers on the line to draft a guy... and while Tua is special, his hip... if it winds up with necrosis... is a career killer.

 

Drafting him is a huge risk. Though, to be honest, it could very much wind up worth it. I strongly feel someone will get a steal if he falls. 
 

To be clear, I’m not down on Tua’s talent. He’s special. I’m down on his draft stock.

 

I’m up on Hurts. I think he may be QB4 off the board. 

Got Tua to Oakland.

 

Hurts in round 1 would be great for my big 12 prop. 

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I wish Geron Christian was at least somewhat of a promising player at OT. It's very hard to tell what we're going to do in that round, I think OT and TE are our biggest needs. I'm counting out Trent here, but these are the positions where I feel we have the most replaceable players. OT is just a much more valuable position in my eyes, it's crucial to get that filled, TE isn't as desperate of a need and you can get by without having a good to great one. 

 

Who's everyone's favorite prospects OT that should be available in late round 2/early round 3?

Charles, Peart, Niang - possible Cleveland falls but unlikely. I think we go WR & hope Shenault is there. Shenault or Diggs would make losing our 2nd rounder more bearable. 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Got Tua to Oakland.

 

Hurts in round 1 would be great for my big 12 prop. 

Im worried about some of our small

school guys, too. Pete Guerriero, Sirgio Hoffman, Zimari Manning, etc etc etc.

 

Was listening to a podcast with Mike Lombardi, which regardless of how you feel about the guy he’s connected, and he said that the couple months with no ability to reach those guys and meet with them is a bigger deal than I thought it was.

 

Lombardi was insistent that a lot of big school back ups are going to be taken over small school guys unless it’s an obvious selection. And that’s not the first time I’ve heard that. 
 

I wonder if that means your Kendall Coleman’s of the world move up and your Alex Highsmith’s fall.

 

It may hurt my guard crush in Cam Clark, too. 
 

It’s really going to hurt the smaller school receivers when there is so much big school talent. Ohio State has three draftable dudes and I’d be willing to bet all 3 are drafted over small school prospects. 
 

Could also really help Matt Womack of Bama get drafted higher despite his lack of playing time (which was due to being surrounded by elite prospects on the OL)
 

 

[volsmet]

Enjoyable cb breakdown 

 

 

[volsmet]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Im worried about some of our small

school guys, too. Pete Guerriero, Sirgio Hoffman, Zimari Manning, etc etc etc.

 

Was listening to a podcast with Mike Lombardi, which regardless of how you feel about the guy he’s connected, and he said that the couple months with no ability to reach those guys and meet with them is a bigger deal than I thought it was.

 

Lombardi was insistent that a lot of big school back ups are going to be taken over small school guys unless it’s an obvious selection. And that’s not the first time I’ve heard that. 
 

I wonder if that means your Kendall Coleman’s of the world move up and your Alex Highsmith’s fall.

 

It may hurt my guard crush in Cam Clark, too. 
 

It’s really going to hurt the smaller school receivers when there is so much big school talent. Ohio State has three draftable dudes and I’d be willing to bet all 3 are drafted over small school prospects. 
 

Could also really help Matt Womack of Bama get drafted higher despite his lack of playing time (which was due to being surrounded by elite prospects on the OL)
 

 

Oh yeah it’s atrocious for those guys, the recruiting for udfa’s is aggressive & even offensive to guys who are starting to realize they’re not going to be selected because they can’t work out for teams. Smaller school guys I like can’t prove anything, nobody is taking these pro days seriously unless a trusted name is conducting the work out. 99% of the country suddenly runs a 4.4 now that nobody can verify anything, I’ve seen 25 guys who claim they’d have topped everyone at the combine in multiple tests 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Clark should be good, he had the combine invite & met with personnel guys at the shrine bowl - he also got nice praise from Dabo & Pruitt, as did Highsmith. Non combine guys are sool.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Oh yeah it’s atrocious for those guys, the recruiting for udfa’s is aggressive & even offensive to guys who are starting to realize they’re not going to be selected because they can’t work out for teams. Smaller school guys I like can’t prove anything, nobody is taking these pro days seriously unless a trusted name is conducting the work out. 99% of the country suddenly runs a 4.4 now that nobody can verify anything, I’ve seen 25 guys who claim they’d have topped everyone at the combine in multiple tests 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Clark should be good, he had the combine invite & met with personnel guys at the shrine bowl - he also got nice praise from Dabo & Pruitt, as did Highsmith. Non combine guys are sool.

Great CB breakdown above by the way. That’s really good stuff. I’ve noticed Henderson drifting myself, but he has so much athleticism that I’m confident in my CB2 evaluation. Jaylon Johnson is a great technical player, too. I actually think guys like Henderson and Diggs have some of the most potential as CBs in the draft class, but guys like Dantzler and Johnson are more sure fire CB selections due to their technique and gamer mentality. 
 

As to the above quote, good point on Highsmith and Clark with combine invites. The lack of being able to scout the small school guys is probably going to show up the most on day 3 and UDFA. I bet there’s a ton of big school UDFAs signed this year. 
 

Going to be a wild ride. 

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Great CB breakdown above by the way. That’s really good stuff. I’ve noticed Henderson drifting myself, but he has so much athleticism that I’m confident in my CB2 evaluation. Jaylon Johnson is a great technical player, too. I actually think guys like Henderson and Diggs have some of the most potential as CBs in the draft class, but guys like Dantzler and Johnson are more sure fire CB selections due to their technique and gamer mentality. 
 

As to the above quote, good point on Highsmith and Clark with combine invites. The lack of being able to scout the small school guys is probably going to show up the most on day 3 and UDFA. I bet there’s a ton of big school UDFAs signed this year. 
 

Going to be a wild ride. 

Where do you rank Gladney? He’s an intense dude, his rankings seem to range from cb3 to cb9, he & Igbinoghene appear to have the widest spectrum of evaluations. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Where do you rank Gladney? He’s an intense dude, his rankings seem to range from cb3 to cb9, he & Igbinoghene appear to have the widest spectrum of evaluations. 

 

Current list. But it still changes. Arnette and Fulton are interchangeable and can jump above Diggs and Dantzler or where they are. Depends on the day for me. Jaylon can be a lot higher than he is. I had Gladney as high as 8 and as low as 12. Again, depends on the day. 
 

It’s tough to really rank these guys. 

[volsmet]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Current list. But it still changes. Arnette and Fulton are interchangeable and can jump above Diggs and Dantzler or where they are. Depends on the day for me. Jaylon can be a lot higher than he is. I had Gladney as high as 8 and as low as 12. Again, depends on the day. 
 

It’s tough to really rank these guys. 

If Holmes could reach his waist I’d love the guy. 

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, volsmet said:

If Holmes could reach his waist I’d love the guy. 

🦖 

EDIT:One of the problems I have with rankings, even with tiers, because there are tiers within the tiers. So there are positional tiers and overall draft tiers but the position tiers and overall tiers don’t always line up. It’s a really odd situation that I’ve found for myself. 
 

It’s one of the things I’ve been looking into for structure next year.

[volsmet]

People talk like Thomas is the 4th most gifted tackle, just the safe reliable fella that won’t be great but won’t get you killed. His film is better than anyone’s & his traits are ridiculous. 
 

 

[KDawg]

I have Thomas OT1. Best film and traits and experience, imo.

 

Wills has played RT. Could transition, but it’s not even close to a 1:1 ratio. Different sides of the line is a different world for a lot of these guys. I thinks he’ll do fine there, but it’s not a clean move.

 

Wirfs is a guy who can play LT and is proven, but may be a better fit at guard.

 

Becton is too raw to be better. 
 

Niang is a little banged up. 
 

Austin Jackson is solid but he’s no where near Thomas.

 

Thomas is criminally underrated. I don’t even think he’s just a boring reliable type. He’s a mauler and quick as hell for his size.

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, volsmet said:

People talk like Thomas is the 4th most gifted tackle, just the safe reliable fella that won’t be great but won’t get you killed. His film is better than anyone’s & his traits are ridiculous. 

 

He's a king-sized tackle and his film is really good.  He's going to work out if he stays healthy.  He only suffers in juxtaposition to guys like Sewell, not Wills and Becton.

 

I've still got the same top two that I had in October: #1 Thomas, #2 Wirfs.  They're in a tier of their own IMO, and their pass pro ability and potential is on a different level than everyone else except Josh Jones.  Wirfs over Thomas is plausible to me even though I wouldn't make that selection myself.  Wirfs is a physical clone of Trent Williams, if not a match for aggression and demeanor.  He's not going to have problems switching to LT and handling any kind of rusher.

 

After them I've actually got Josh Jones, not Jedrick Wills or Mekhi Becton.  Jones's pass pro film is really good.  His grip and anchor strength look great--impossible to shuck and he doesn't give up ground against power.  He is also very fluid and I like seeing big OTs like him show off smooth sets and slides.  No panic in his game.  And he is an outstanding run blocker, one of the best in the class among the OLs.  He really shines on move blocks in particular, making them look easy.  The biggest thing is he's just a dialed in player who rapidly and accurately figures out whose gap is whose no matter the post-snap movement.  And he's an easy runner who hits his targets, he doesn't have issues reaching the force man way out on the edge and creating a strong alley for ouside runs.

 

I really like his game and think he's going to be a good one.

 

I like Wills too, but not nearly as much as the general consensus.  He's an awesome run blocker, but I think his pass-pro isn't of the same caliber or upside as the top three LTs in the class.  He's a twitchy athlete but his sets and his slide are plodding and I don't think he's got the same lateral athleticism as the good LTs and Wirfs.  He is way more comfortable going forward than backwards, and I'm not sure he can make the transition to LT in the NFL like Wirfs can.  He's my #4 tackle though.

 

I'm an early Austin Jackson fan.  I watched a ton of Pac 12 games this year and was able to catch like six of his games during the season and I watched them for him in particular instead of the receivers.  I feel like a got a good handle on his play-style as a result.  He's a lot more raw than Josh Jones, but I see a similar mover who pairs ideal size and athleticism with flexibility, balance, and super heavy hands.  The game comes really easy for guys like them and they have a calming effect on that left side.  Seems like a really good young man too.  If he ends up with a good staff and puts in the work to develop, I could see him eventually being the best LT in the class because I think he has a better body and balance than Thomas and he's more aggressive than Wirfs.

[KDawg]

Agree on Wills looking plodding. But every time I’d watch him and think that he’s be at the second level and mauling people. Or when I’d look at his kick and think his feet weren’t moving quickly enough he’d be in position and blocking the defender. 
 

Cant fault the Jones love from ya. He’s a very good player. 
 

I think my tiers are: Thomas as a close to lock, then Wirfs/Wills/Jones as probable locks, then Becton as high ceiling losing floor potential guy, then Niang/Jackson/Cleveland. 
 

But to piggyback my earlier comment that I’m struggling with tiers, I think Becton is a higher rated guy than Jones due to potential, but I think Jones is a safer pick. And I’m not sure how I’d rank them accurately based on that.

 

Becton is a big boom or bust and Jones is more likely to be in the league awhile. It’s a strange dynamic to drafting that I’m not sure how you communicate via rankings but you know when you look at position groups.

 

That happens to me quite a bit when I look at my rankings. I have a guy rated lower but I think he has more potential to have a good career than someone who I rate higher because of upside.

 

I think it would be easier for me to do a team board versus an overall board because some of those boom/bust guys aren’t in positions for this team I’d risk. And some are. I wouldn’t risk Becton if I had any of the other potential good starters on the board. But I may take a risk in other places with other, more generally high ranked players on the board.

[volsmet]

 

*

At OT it’s the experts v the ES draft syndicate

 

 

[KDawg]

I think the people that have Thomas 4th are missing the boat. Big time. But we’ll see.

[OVCChairman]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think the people that have Thomas 4th are missing the boat. Big time. But we’ll see.

 

 

Hopefully Gettelman has him 4th and they take Becton... Having a raw rookie face off against Chase Young and Demarcus Lawrence on a regular basis is the fastest way to show the league how to beat him.

[KDawg]

@OVCChairman @Fresh8686 @volsmet @Skinsinparadise are you guys going to send me your darn lists or what?!

 

And others I have tagged/haven’t tagged but want to participate. I know I missed some of you who I enjoy reading posts from. Send me your ****. 
 

I value your inputs sirs. And if there are any madams.

[Lovi]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

@OVCChairman @Fresh8686 @volsmet @Skinsinparadise are you guys going to send me your darn lists or what?!

 

And others I have tagged/haven’t tagged but want to participate. I know I missed some of you who I enjoy reading posts from. Send me your ****. 
 

I value your inputs sirs. And if there are any madams.

 

I don't watch enough college football to give any kind of educated opinion, but I really appreciate all of your "in the know" opinions to help me feel better about our picks.  Or worse. lol

 

Thanks all!

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

I have Thomas OT1. Best film and traits and experience, imo.

 

Wills has played RT. Could transition, but it’s not even close to a 1:1 ratio. Different sides of the line is a different world for a lot of these guys. I thinks he’ll do fine there, but it’s not a clean move.

 

Wirfs is a guy who can play LT and is proven, but may be a better fit at guard.

 

Becton is too raw to be better. 
 

Niang is a little banged up. 
 

Austin Jackson is solid but he’s no where near Thomas.

 

Thomas is criminally underrated. I don’t even think he’s just a boring reliable type. He’s a mauler and quick as hell for his size.

Thomas is way too underrated. I agree 100%. I still think he ends up the first tackle off of the board. And that no NFL team is talking about him makes me believe it even more.

 

I wanted to edit this by saying I think Wirffs is a more valuable OL overall. Because he can kick inside and play well there. I dont see Thomas as a guard at all.

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, KDawg said:

@OVCChairman @Fresh8686 @volsmet @Skinsinparadise are you guys going to send me your darn lists or what?!

 

And others I have tagged/haven’t tagged but want to participate. I know I missed some of you who I enjoy reading posts from. Send me your ****. 
 

I value your inputs sirs. And if there are any madams.

 

My wifi was down for days until mid day yesterday so my Internet has been slow via just my phone.  Back to normal today, so I'll get to it.  Just about every top 3 player per position won't be in play for us in reality. Thus I agree with @volsmet it would be fun to pick players from a tier system, too.   I was thinking about where we can find that.  I believe scout.com does it for ESPN I'll look at some point today.

[Fresh8686]

48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

@OVCChairman @Fresh8686 @volsmet @Skinsinparadise are you guys going to send me your darn lists or what?!

 

And others I have tagged/haven’t tagged but want to participate. I know I missed some of you who I enjoy reading posts from. Send me your ****. 
 

I value your inputs sirs. And if there are any madams.

 

I've got a big ass project at work due tomorrow, so I'll get something to you after I get that done. Sorry for the wait.

 

 

For those high on Antonio Gibson.

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I understand BPA. I know that is the way you build the best team. But after reviewing the most-recent depth chart (courtesy of Hogs Haven) ... I think that the Redskins need to go BPA focused solely on offense in Round 3-5. Hear me out ...

 

Defense (29):

LDE: M. Sweat, R. Kerrigan, J. Brailford

RDE: C. Young, R. Anderson, N. Orchard

DT: D. Payne, T. Settle, C. Brantley

DT: M. Ionidis, J. Allen

Sam: Thomas Davis

Mike: J. Bostic, S. Dion-Hamilton, C. Holcomb

Will: R. Foster, K. Pierre-Louis, J. Harvey-Clemons

SS: L. Collins, D. Everett, J. Reaves

FS: S. Davis, T. Apke

CB: F. Moreau, D. Johnson

CB: R. Darby, G. Stroman

SCB: K. Fuller, J. Moreland

 

This is a pretty solid depth chart. Sure, you could upgrade long-term at Sam behind Thomas Davis, get a CB who has a contract beyond 2020, same with FS. But if this is an assessment year, then I am not too concerned about the long-term situations. Those will work themselves out etiher through extensions or 2021 free agents (when we have tons of $$) ... or the 2021 draft.

 

Offense, on the other hand, is a LOT dicier. Let's remove TW at LT.

 

Offense (28):

QB: Haskins, Allen

RB: Guice, Love, Peterson, Barber, McKissic

WR1: McLaurin, C. Sims

WR2: Harmon, Latimer, Kidsy

SWR: S. Sims, Quinn

TE: Thomas, Hentges, Rodgers, Sprinkle

LT: Lucas, Christian

LG: Martin, Schweitzer, Vuhnovich

OC: Roullier, Pierschbacher

RG: Scherff

RT: Moses, Paris

 

There are a lot of replacement-level players on offense. I am not too concerned about IOL depth, but you could certainly add one. OT is a big concern. WR and TE need playmakers. RB and QB are the only positions I am comfortable not addressing.

 

So I think we should go BPA in this draft between WR, OL and TE in the middle rounds, and try our best to ignore defense unless there is an absolute steal available. Someone that is a clear upgrade on defense in a year where we will likely be assessing some of the players at CB, S and LB.

 

I am not saying ignore defense entirely. But I don't think you grab anyone on defense outside of Chase unless an absolute steal is available. I think there could be some guys in R7 that can be added on defense to compete. But we need depth and playmakers on offense.

 

Assuming we can add 1-2 picks for Trent in the mid-rounds, I am going to be focusing on adding WR, TE, and OL in spades.

[Skinsinparadise]

McGinn talking to scouts on the O lineman.  Typically there are some differences from draft geek types and actual scouts on players.  Some say the riser and faller stuff is often a function of draft geeks getting better sources to what teams actually think of these players as the draft approaches.

 

I recall McGinn's top 50 last year which was totally driven by NFL scouts currently working for teams was more accurate as for what actually happened than any mock draft type board.  Thus I take his stuff more seriously than most stuff I read. 

 

I am a big Cleveland guy so I liked to see him get some votes.  I also like Wilson among the 2nd tier guys.  Granted all the 2nd tier guys have warts, they are 2nd tier for a reason   Some liked Peart.  I'd easily take Niang over Peart personally from the games I watched.  But maybe i got to watch more.  Peart definitely looks the part of a LT so maybe I'll watch more. 

 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

Was thinking about Lynn Bowden earlier, and felt that maybe I was overthinking it with him.  He was a top 25 player in CFB this past season.  He's got that Lamar Jackson backyard football star quality that shines in his play against every opponent.  Concerns about his NFL position are valid, but would it really surprise anyone if he ends up being one of the biggest stars from this draft class?

 

He's an asshole on the field, but it's the kind of chippiness that fuels competitiveness.  He's going to be a love him when he's on your team, hate him when he's on the other one type at the next level, and a creative offensive coaching staff has a chance to turn him into a household name.  I have this terrible feeling he's going to end up in Kansas City for like a fifth round pick and become an all purpose yardage monster.