CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: A solid % of all people are horrible across all demographics...profession/gender/age/etc. Politicians might have a slightly higher rate of horribleness due to the power dynamic. But that’s a big “might”. Politicians are especially horrible people because not only are they horrible people but they believe they are so uniquely “good” that they should lead other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: A solid % of all people are horrible across all demographics...profession/gender/age/etc. Politicians might have a slightly higher rate of horribleness due to the power dynamic. But that’s a big “might”. There's selection bias working for politicians. If you aren't willing to get dirty and be awful and two-faced, your opponent will beat you in an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Yes, but you can vote them out...then they’re no longer politicians. But they’re still horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Politically speaking, the best course of action for the Dems is for Fairfax to resign now, let Northam pick his replacement quickly, and then have Northam resign. It will probably hurt in a few races this November, but not as much as doing nothing will. And they cant all resign at once and let the GOP take over the Statehouse before redistricting. And it doesnt matter what Herring does or when. His political career is over and nobody gives a **** about the AG position other than as a stepping stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: A solid % of all people are horrible across all demographics...profession/gender/age/etc. Politicians might have a slightly higher rate of horribleness due to the power dynamic. But that’s a big “might”. You're probably right, but horrible people across all demographics profession/gender/age aren't wrapped up in making thousands of people think they're inherently good and have a squeaky clean, down home, hard working, came from nothing past. 5 days and 20 or so pages ago in this thread, people were acting like Justin Fairfax was the next great hope, now he's looking like a rapist. I think Obama might have been the last one to not be a piece of ****, even though the Republicans tried like hell to get him (Rev. Wright, drug use in college, birth certificate). FFS, next election cycle if I have to hear another one of these ****holes talk about how their parents or grandparents immigrated here with 3 dollars and a dream, worked 5 jobs to put food on their plate and a roof over their 7 kids heads and lived the American dream in a half assed effort to relate to practically EVERYONE else who shares that common thread...I'll pull an Elvis and just shoot my tv. All these people are, are salespeople. World class salespeople. Selling us on the feeling that they're good, trustworthy people who have our best interest at heart. Which is bull****. What's their goal? Constant re-election and to have a career like Ted Kennedy. At least the guy next to me at work isn't trying to impress me by telling me how honest he is and I quite frankly don't care if he is or isn't. If he's dressing up in blackface on the weekends and I find out about it, I'm not going to his 4th of July cookout. His livelihood doesn't revolve around me keeping his job secure, that's the difference when it comes to the demographics you cite and politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Politically speaking, the best course of action for the Dems is for Fairfax to resign now, let Northam pick his replacement quickly, and then have Northam resign. It will probably hurt in a few races this November, but not as much as doing nothing will. And they cant all resign at once and let the GOP take over the Statehouse before redistricting. And it doesnt matter what Herring does or when. His political career is over and nobody gives a **** about the AG position other than as a stepping stone. For all of them to resign at once and let republicans take over the state House would be to spit in the face of all VA Democrat voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 @Springfield offers a legitimate argument. i'm more amputate, clean up the blood, and move on. there's a big conversation to have about how free of flaw do you need to be, what transgressions are forgivable and which aren't, what levels of evidence or proof is good enough for which kinds of accusations to have weight, etc but short term, i'd suggest the dems focus on the strategic prioritizing since the biggest goals in the political arena are to first and foremost by far, defeat trump in 2020 and second, beat gopers in every possible way and race up to and through 2020...so as things are (goper nation being, effectively, sewage), i prefer seeing the dem brand at it's very best from "see?" to shining "see?" which in this situation, to me, means going ahead and exploring herring's case to see if he can be redeemed and used as a bandage to keep it in dem hands, but only if he is really salvageable with some integrity behind the arguments....but keep demanding that nordham leave and same with fairfax unless some major holes in the accusations quickly manifest....but if herring can't be saved properly, then they still need to call him out too and as promptly as possible even if it means giving the mansion over to a goper it seems to be that it will play better for the big picture across the nation and all elections if the dems continue to hold to the high-er ground on racial issues and me too issues...and if you are sincere and committed to your principles, it's when it hurts you to live by them that's the real test of your integrity and your actual character, as distinguished from your internal PR dep't and the kind of hypocritical preaching, preening, posturing, and pontificating more common to bubbly-religion gopers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Springfield said: For all of them to resign at once and let republicans take over the state House would be to spit in the face of all VA Democrat voters. Of course they cant. I dont think anyone expects them too either. But they also cant all stay in office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: You're probably right, but horrible people across all demographics profession/gender/age aren't wrapped up in making thousands of people think they're inherently good and have a squeaky clean, down home, hard working, came from nothing past. 5 days and 20 or so pages ago in this thread, people were acting like Justin Fairfax was the next great hope, now he's looking like a rapist. I think Obama might have been the last one to not be a piece of ****, even though the Republicans tried like hell to get him (Rev. Wright, drug use in college, birth certificate). FFS, next election cycle if I have to hear another one of these ****holes talk about how their parents or grandparents immigrated here with 3 dollars and a dream, worked 5 jobs to put food on their plate and a roof over their 7 kids heads and lived the American dream in a half assed effort to relate to practically EVERYONE else who shares that common thread...I'll pull an Elvis and just shoot my tv. All these people are, are salespeople. World class salespeople. Selling us on the feeling that they're good, trustworthy people who have our best interest at heart. Which is bull****. What's their goal? Constant re-election and to have a career like Ted Kennedy. At least the guy next to me at work isn't trying to impress me by telling me how honest he is and I quite frankly don't care if he is or isn't. If he's dressing up in blackface on the weekends and I find out about it, I'm not going to his 4th of July cookout. His livelihood doesn't revolve around me keeping his job secure, that's the difference when it comes to the demographics you cite and politicians. Counterpoint: People get the representation they deserve. If blatantly evil people didn’t see an opportunity in politics, they wouldn’t get into it and stick to more traditionally evil professions like prison guard or drug dealer or lawyer or evangelist. Fact is, Americans like evil and they vote for evil. Don’t believe me? Have a look at the White House...and recall that one of Trumps main selling points was that he wasn’t a “career politician”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 the most surprising thing to me about try the beal was finding out he worked for hallmark greeting cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jumbo said: the most surprising thing to me about try the beal was finding out he worked for hallmark greeting cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said: Counterpoint: People get the representation they deserve. If blatantly evil people didn’t see an opportunity in politics, they wouldn’t get into it and stick to more traditionally evil professions like prison guard or drug dealer or lawyer or evangelist. Fact is, Americans like evil and they vote for evil. Don’t believe me? Have a look at the White House...and recall that one of Trumps main selling points was that he wasn’t a “career politician”. Eh, I see where you're coming from and I agree to a certain extent. But I know you hate the conservatives and republicans but no one deserves Trump. Even though you feel like rubbing someones face in it and making an example because they made a bad decision doesn't mean we've all gotta suffer. It might feel good to rub someones face in it and let them know they're the reason he's president, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that he's making us an international laughingstock. People who voted for Northam don't deserve this. From a 10,000 foot view I understand the notion of "people get the representation they deserve" but looking at it closer...do we really? Most of us go to work, work hard, pay our taxes, try to live a good life. Even though we disagree on things because we have different world views, do we really deserve Trump? Did we deserve a candidate as ****ty as Hillary? Does VA deserve a ****ing weirdo like Northam who wore a hood/blackface, admitted it was him and the recanted and now is making a bigger spectacle out of himself by digging his heels in? I say no to all three. But as I said, if you want to rub Trumpers faces in it...whatever makes you feel good. I understand catharsis. To your point, if blatantly evil people see an opportunity in politics, maybe the barrier of entry should be harder. I'm sure someone will say "That's not fair!" but neither is having three people in VA in leadership positions turn out to be racists and/or rapists. At least a drug dealer is up front with their intentions. When you look at it that way, I'm not sure who has the more respectable profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I’m not saying Hillary is a paragon of virtue but she is a good person and a perfectly reasonable candidate. And I know this because villainous scum like Trump, Hannity, Coulter, etc have dedicated a good portion of their lives to attacking her relentlessly. Going forward, that should be a pretty good metric as to determining a persons moral fitness for politics, @Spaceman Spiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 29 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Fact is, Americans like evil and they vote for evil. Maybe I should run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: I’m not saying Hillary is a paragon of virtue but she is a good person and a perfectly reasonable candidate. And I know this because villainous scum like Trump, Hannity, Coulter, etc have dedicated a good portion of their lives to attacking her relentlessly. Going forward, that should be a pretty good metric as to determining a persons moral fitness for politics, @Spaceman Spiff. Haha, we can agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, PokerPacker said: There's selection bias working for politicians. If you aren't willing to get dirty and be awful and two-faced, your opponent will beat you in an election. You can level many of the same accusations at associates that make partner in big firms, or most business tycoons... hell, you can certainly say the same thing about people that make full prof in some academic departments. its cut-throat at the top, and the people that thrive on that aren't necessarily the people you want across from you at dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Wishing Tom Perriello had won the primary right about now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Here is my thoughts. Northam: Needs to resign. He probably could have handled it in a manner which he could have stayed in office without losing much face. But he managed to handle it in the worst way possible. THAT is why he needs to go. Fairfax: Should not resign. I get it is a bad look for Dems in the short term. But I think setting the standard that all it takes is an accusation of an event that took places years ago is dangerous for the long term. Weather the storm, do something to show you care about women's rights, welcome any investigation, and hold you head high through it. Herring: Also should not resign. From what I can tell, he told on himself. He did not wait for someone else to discover it and then try to play damage control. This is exactly the case where forgivness should be considered also when looking at his history and making sure there is nothing else that makes it look like he has racist feelings/habits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Here is my thoughts. Fairfax: Should not resign. I get it is a bad look for Dems in the short term. But I think setting the standard that all it takes is an accusation of an event that took places years ago is dangerous for the long term. Weather the storm, do something to show you care about women's rights, welcome any investigation, and hold you head high through it. Herring: Also should not resign. From what I can tell, he told on himself. He did not wait for someone else to discover it and then try to play damage control. This is exactly the case where forgivness should be considered also when looking at his history and making sure there is nothing else that makes it look like he has racist feelings/habits. In regards to Fairfax while I agree, Democrats have been saying that we need to believe people who come forward with assault accusations. It looks real bad to go back on that when its a Democrat that's accused. With Herring I agree as well, since he came out and "told on himself" that must say something about his character and what he thinks and believes now. If people arent allowed to make mistakes 20 years ago and grow beyond them/change I think thats a big problem with society. Him bringing it up himself screams to me that he is not that person, unlike Northram who hid it until someone else found it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said: Democrats have been saying that we need to believe people who come forward with assault accusations. It looks real bad to go back on that when its a Democrat that's accused. The Dems wouldn't be saying she was a liar. And they shouldn't act like they need a "beyond a reasonable doubt" piece of evidence to toss a guy. I've got no problem with a where there's smoke, there's fire mentality but there isn't even smoke here. Even if you don't agree with the Dems taking that stance on moral grounds, just think about how the GOP would abuse it. Once you have set that standard, they will find someone to make an accusation against every politician they want to attack. And then Dems will look like hypocrites if that person isn't forced to step down. *I hate that how this could affect one party or be used by the other party is a consideration. This is a large part of why I hate what our system has become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 No way can the Dems support Fairfax after Kavanaugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said: No way can the Dems support Fairfax after Kavanaugh. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Just now, Springfield said: I disagree. I read your comment before and it's the correct stance to take. Unfortunately for the Dems, that's not how the majority of them acted with Kavanaugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: The Dems wouldn't be saying she was a liar. And they shouldn't act like they need a "beyond a reasonable doubt" piece of evidence to toss a guy. I've got no problem with a where there's smoke, there's fire mentality but there isn't even smoke here. Even if you don't agree with the Dems taking that stance on moral grounds, just think about how the GOP would abuse it. Once you have set that standard, they will find someone to make an accusation against every politician they want to attack. And then Dems will look like hypocrites if that person isn't forced to step down. *I hate that how this could affect one party or be used by the other party is a consideration. This is a large part of why I hate what our system has become. I agree with that, we cant give in to mob mentality and we have a system of proof for a reason that the mob mentality ignores. I think though that the standard already started so how do we get back to the right balance. We need to make sure we stop that in its tracks before the slope becomes too steep I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: No way can the Dems support Fairfax after Kavanaugh. Even if Fairfax is proven innocent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.