NY Times: Miscarrying at Work - The Physical Toll of Pregnancy Discrimination

[thegreaterbuzzette]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Causation?  Do I need to pull out graphs to show how average college tuition and health care costs have exploded jus in our lifetime? 

 

For example, having a plan makes health care possible, not affordable.  I've gone from $150 on a month jus on meds at one company to $200 per psychiatrist visit in network because because I haven't hit my deductible.  I do cybersecurity for federal government and by time I finish my masters I will have over $100k in student loan debt.

 

Could I have made better choices, I dont know, these seemes reasonable considering the 21st century economy, but that is an unnecessary amount of money compared to what other countries pay for the same thing.  

 

Just because someone is struggling doesnt mean they are idiots, I'm not too far removed from if my car broke down that ruined my entire month.  My savings gone and everything harder because everything is more expensive.  You cant manage money if you dont have any.

 

 

A $100k in student debt, IMO, is insane. I'm working my masters now. Would never dream of paying that much. Going in state. Again, choices and priorities. If one chooses to go to a $$$$ school they have to pay for it. And if that's your priority, then something else has to give. 

 

I have many close family friends with little education, making 6 figures or close to it, in the trades of military. There are options. 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

2 hours ago, Mooka said:

As for college, we're talking about 18 year olds. How do you create a system that allows an 18 year old to go to college? Teenagers dont earn money. Everyone i know that worked their way through college did so as after much maturing, including myself.

I started working at 16. While in high school I worked (Wendys) while also doing 4 hours a day unpaid internship. Over summer breaks I worked at the local hospital. 

 

In colleges whole attending fulltime, I also worked a fulltime job AND a part-time job simultaneously. I also worked over school breaks so I could have my campus housing so I didnt lose my other forms of employment. All while being super active in school counsels and philanthropic activities.  Wasn't an easy school either.

 

Most schools also offer paid positions or positions that offset housing or tuition. 

 

Just like most scholarships, no one applies for them. I've sat on a few scholarship committees that no one ever bothered to apply. Free money, just waiting for someone to write a 2 page essay about their biggest achievement. 

 

Most community colleges are super affordable l, and cut out 2 years (at least) of higher tuition university or college. In state schools are also a lower budget option. 

 

Believe others have pointed out military. Most hospitals will pay for college if you sign a contract for years of employment. I believe law enforcement does this too in some jurisdictions.

 

I could go on and on, but don't want my logic to continue to offend anyone.

 

 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

A $100k in student debt, IMO, is insane. I'm working my masters now. Would never dream of paying that much. Going in state. Again, choices and priorities. If one chooses to go to a $$$$ school they have to pay for it. And if that's your priority, then something else has to give. 

 

I have many close family friends with little education, making 6 figures or close to it, in the trades of military. There are options. 

 

Oh, thanks, how judgemental of you. 

 

I went to ITT, which got down by the feds for a reason because of predatory loans among other things, that's 80% of it, for a 4 year degree.  I go to ECPI now, not exactly MIT or price range.  

 

If I make 6 figures (which im already almost there) it'll be worth it. Ya know, if military wanted me for cybersecurity, i might kd done it, went to MEPS, they wanted to give me a gun and wait until job became available even though I got 72 on the ASVAB.

 

Most people I know in my field went military, please dont talk to me about what I should've done if you have no idea what it takes to get to this point in my field without it.

[PleaseBlitz]

 

I had almost $250,000 in student debt, and it's still over $100k.  One of the two best choices I've ever made was to do that.   

[thegreaterbuzzette]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Oh, thanks, how judgemental of you. 

 

I went to ITT, which got down by the feds for a reason because of predatory loans among other things, that's 80% of it, for a 4 year degree.  I go to ECPI now, not exactly MIT or price range.  

 

If I make 6 figures (which im already almost there) it'll be worth it. Ya know, if military wanted me for cybersecurity, i might kd done it, went to MEPS, they wanted to give me a gun and wait until job became available even though I got 72 on the ASVAB.

 

Most people I know in my field went military, please dont talk to me about what I should've done if you have no idea what it takes to get to this point in my field without it.

Not sure why you are offended. I didnt judge you.

 

I said it was insane. For me, it's not my priority. It's not what I would choose to spend $100k on unless that was my priority.

Again we go back to people's choices and priorities.

 

I'm so tired of this society thinking one can have everything. Life is a balancing act, a give and take.

 

If $100k in student debt gets you to where you wanna be financially and that trade off is worth it for you. Then go for it.

 

If you want a $100k to spend on a boat. And your priority is boating, then go on with your boat self.

 

Spending a $100k on anything is insane to me. Apologies if my word choice rubbed ya the wrong way. 

 

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

If I wanted to be rich(er) id have to stop smoking weed, work more than 40 hrs a week and not buy filets and mahi mahi. My 6 year old has 2 pairs of Uggs (the real ones).

 

But dont we make money to enjoy the finer things in life? Im not going to retire. Im 40. Im going to work and probably have a heart attack in some futuristic office in the year 2053.

 

If I start saving and pinching pennies for what? So i can try and enjoy myself when Im 73? What can you do when your 73? Im not going to be interested in drinking $30 beers or $70 ruth chris steaks at that age. Im going to sitting on a cushion seat toilet for 3 hours praying for a drop of urine or watching hallmark movies.

 

Why would I spend the best and most active years of my life scrounging and saving ... so I can try to start enjoying life when im 73 and old and tired and dont want to do **** anyway?

 

YOLO!

 

Lets have a food fight. Lets go top shelf. Lets get that suite vs standard room.

 

if I did save, yeah id be driving an audi instead of a rav 4 and own a single family home vs an end unit townhouse in a section 8 neighborhood .. but im good w rav 4 driving to a $100 dinner. Im good owning the nicests house on a crappy block.

 

(I do save in the sense my kid has over 20k in roth ira/stocks and I pay down extra on my mortgage when I can)

 

edit - sorry for contributing to taking this thing totally off track.

 

 

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Not sure why you are offended. I didnt judge you.

 

I said it was insane. For me, it's not my priority. It's not what I would choose to spend $100k on unless that was my priority.

Again we go back to people's choices and priorities.

 

I'm so tired of this society thinking one can have everything. Life is a balancing act, a give and take.

 

I dont get why you think this is about people wanting everything, it's not.  What I had to do to get to this point is unreasonable, it makes no sense, I did it, but it makes no sense.

 

Quote

 

If $100k in student debt gets you to where you wanna be financially and that trade off is worth it for you. Then go for it.

 

If you want a $100k to spend on a boat. And your priority is boating, then go on with your boat self.

 

Spending a $100k on anything is insane to me. Apologies if my word choice rubbed ya the wrong way. 

 

That's okay, I blame not knowing my options and going to a technical school that got shut down for stuff like predatory loans.  Still worth it considering the .military route (which is how pretty much everyone I know sitting next me got their job).  I went all the way to MEPS, they wanted to make me a security officer instead even with 72 on the ASVAB.

[Renegade7]

41 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

I started working at 16. While in high school I worked (Wendys) while also doing 4 hours a day unpaid internship. Over summer breaks I worked at the local hospital. 

 

A lot of people work during high school.

 

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In colleges whole attending fulltime, I also worked a fulltime job AND a part-time job simultaneously. I also worked over school breaks so I could have my campus housing so I didnt lose my other forms of employment. All while being super active in school counsels and philanthropic activities.  Wasn't an easy school either.

 

A lot of people work in college, I did two jobs as well and ran an IT Club.  Having to work makes college unrealistic, I've seen it with my own eyes, good people not standing a chance.

 

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Most schools also offer paid positions or positions that offset housing or tuition. 

 

This isnt true anymore, and not enough work study jobs for all the student anyway.

 

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Just like most scholarships, no one applies for them. I've sat on a few scholarship committees that no one ever bothered to apply. Free money, just waiting for someone to write a 2 page essay about their biggest achievement. 

 

I investigated this while in college, talking a dent I couldn't justify sacrificing I disnt have time for.  Whatever ones I got I promise you my interests on the loans would've eaten through it by now.

 

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Most community colleges are super affordable l, and cut out 2 years (at least) of higher tuition university or college. In state schools are also a lower budget option. 

 

This is an option that isnt talked about enough, but not for everyone or every field.  I dont regret going to a technical school, I was working in my field after finishing my associates.

 

Quote

Believe others have pointed out military. Most hospitals will pay for college if you sign a contract for years of employment. I believe law enforcement does this too in some jurisdictions.

 

DoD can only allow so many people.  

 

Quote

I could go on and on, but don't want my logic to continue to offend anyone.

 

Your logic is neither empathetic nor applicable to everyone's situation.  We are failing kids before they even get to choose their dreams with our education system, this is a systematic problem that people that are giving everything they got are saying this is rediculous and it's not because they want a handout.  Stop armchair lifestyling people you dont know, please.

 

@thegreaterbuzzette to break up posts, try moving the cursor inside the quote and pressing the enter key until the quote bubble breaks in two.  This works fine on chrome and firefox from my experience, even on mobile (I haven't posted using my laptop today)

[Mooka]

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

 

I could go on and on, but don't want my logic to continue to offend anyone.

 

 

 

Your logic is common sense that somehow doesnt apply to millenials.

 

Again, i ask, millenials don't join the military? Work in hospitals? Work at their college for tuition costs? Go to community college?  Millenials don't work full-time through college? 

 

Your idea, is for what, only wealthy kids and those working 60hrs per week, plus an internship, plus whatever else you were doing, plus no family help, plus without any form of a loan, walking 20miles barefoot to class every day, get to go to college in this country? 

[Renegade7]

39 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I had almost $250,000 in student debt, and it's still over $100k.  One of the two best choices I've ever made was to do that.   

 

My investment in my education and career saved my life, was making more then my dad in my mid-20s even though neither of us graduated high school.  American Dream is not dead, but it is on life support.

[tshile]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

  

 

19 companies that offer some of the best parental leave policies in America

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-best-parental-leave-policies-in-america-2016-5 includes 

This includes:

• Netflix
• Adobe

Facebook

Google

Twitter

Microsoft

Paypal

Johnson & Johnson

Square

Reddit

Bank of America

Ernst & Young

Accenture 

Spotify

 

 

Like I said, they don’t have enough seats. The other 90% aren’t working at companies like this. These are some of the biggest companies in the country.....

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Edit:  And **** equality, I didn't just pop an 8 pound object out of my body after carrying it around for 9 months. There IS NO equality to be had here.  

 

Completely bogus logic. There’s more to having a newborn than whether it popped out your hole or someone else’s. Most of which is to help the woman that just popped a kid out. 

 

Ridiculous. 

2 hours ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I accept. How do we do this?

 

What are you betting? I’ll pm you my number. 

 

Be careful what you wish for. 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

So to go back on topic.

 

If this worker had a true medical necessity for light duty, advised her employer of such, and they refused....she could be a millionaire right now.

 

So the fact that hasn't happened, tells me there is something else going on for this story.

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

.  Still worth it considering the .military route (which is how pretty much everyone I know sitting next me got their job).  I went all the way to MEPS, they wanted to make me a security officer instead even with 72 on the ASVAB.

May I asked what ye as r this was and which branch(s) you were talking to?

[Renegade7]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

May I asked what ye as r this was and which branch(s) you were talking to?

Air Force, 2008.  The fact they offered even though I had a GED (my understanding at the time is it was uncommon for them to do that) made me saying "no" one of the harder decisions I ever made, studied my ass off for that test.  I had heard Air Force trains Navy for Cyber Security at the time, but said if I wanted to do Military it would be Air Force.  I already felt recruiter was just going to tell me what I wanted to hear and didn't feel any different at Ft. Mead (this was before every branch had their own Cybersecurity Unit).  Navy might of worked out, but I felt like I was being f'd with and left.

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

Air Force, 2008.  The fact they offered even though I had a GED (my understanding at the time is it was uncommon for them to do that) made me saying "no" one of the harder decisions I ever made, studied my ass off for that test.  I had heard Air Force trains Navy for Cyber Security at the time, but said if I wanted to do Military it would be Air Force.  I already felt recruiter was just going to tell me what I wanted to hear and didn't feel any different at Ft. Mead (this was before every branch had their own Cybersecurity Unit).  Navy might of worked out, but I felt like I was being f'd with and left.

Yea you should have checked with other branches.  Though during that time, all branches were getting flooded due to the economic crash.  Having a GED just required a waiver.  Not hard, I have a GED also.  Like anything else, the more you research and shop around, the better your result usually is.  

 

And since you put out your ASVAB score twice, I'll tell you I got a 92.

 

😎

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Yea you should have checked with other branches.  Though during that time, all branches were getting flooded due to the economic crash.  Having a GED just required a waiver.  Not hard, I have a GED also.  Like anything else, the more you research and shop around, the better your result usually is.  

 

And since you put out your ASVAB score twice, I'll tell you I got a 92.

 

😎

 

I was rolling and thought I lost another post to not saving properly : )

 

No regrets, it worked out.  Thought you were Navy?  What I read what it was really hard to get into the Air Force, so if they have to choose between me and someone who graduated, I'd be ass out, at least for the Air Force.  I didn't think Navy would've been a problem at all, just didn't want to do it because I didn't believe any of them anymore, right or wrong.  I was like 19, so I was probably wrong, it happens.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

I was rolling and thought I lost a post : )

 

No regrets, it worked out.  Thought you were Navy?  What I read what it was really hard to get into the Air Force, so if they have to choose between me and someone who graduated, I'd be ass out, at least for the Air Force.  I didn't think Navy would've been a problem at all, just didn't want to do it because I didn't believe any of them anymore, right or wrong.  I was like 19, so I was probably wrong, it happens.

I am Navy.  Air Force if very picky.  They laughed when they saw records of some youthful indiscretions.  GED didnt even matter.  Navy is a lot more forgiving.  Especially to those with high scores.

[twa]

40 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

So to go back on topic.

 

If this worker had a true medical necessity for light duty, advised her employer of such, and they refused....she could be a millionaire right now.

 

So the fact that hasn't happened, tells me there is something else going on for this story.

 

That was my first thought, then I recalled back in the day when such symptoms were present  bed rest was the recommendation.

My wife spent months with bedrest and no lifting(and no pay)

[thegreaterbuzzette]

My PSA for the day :

 

Anyone who is planning a family and does not have company paid parental leave.....PLEASE....enroll in short term disability insurance. 

 

If you have short term dis (STD), its not up to your employer if you go out on leave, its up to your doctor. Please note, most STD plans have a pre-existing condition clause. So you must be enrolled BEFORE your diagnosis of pregnancy. After that, most pay the benefit post-tax at 65% of your income. Which is essentially your normal income once taxes are removed. So you are very much still making the same money. 

[Renegade7]

56 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

So to go back on topic.

 

If this worker had a true medical necessity for light duty, advised her employer of such, and they refused....she could be a millionaire right now.

 

So the fact that hasn't happened, tells me there is something else going on for this story.

No, not really, that was the point of the thread:

 

Quote

But refusing to accommodate pregnant women is often completely legal. Under federal law, companies don’t necessarily have to adjust pregnant women’s jobs, even when lighter work is available and their doctors send letters urging a reprieve.

 

The Pregnancy Discrimination Act is the only federal law aimed at protecting expecting mothers at work. It is four paragraphs long and 40 years old. It says that a company has to accommodate pregnant workers’ requests only if it is already doing so for other employees who are “similar in their ability or inability to work.”

That means that companies that do not give anyone a break have no obligation to do so for pregnant women. Employees say that is how the warehouse’s current owner, XPO Logistics, operates.

 

For example, last October, a 58-year-old woman died of cardiac arrest on the warehouse floor after complaining to colleagues that she felt sick, according to a police report and current and former XPO employees. In Facebook postsat the time and in recent interviews, employees said supervisors told them to keep working as the woman lay dead.

 

If companies “treat their nonpregnant employees terribly, they have every right to treat their pregnant employees terribly as well,” said Representative Jerrold Nadler, Democrat of New York, who has pushed for stronger federal protections for expecting mothers.

 

 

I'm really not sure how many of ya'll finished the article or need to read it again, but there's a section where one employee said she was feeling pain and asked to go home early and the manager told her to get an abortion.  Another felt her baby's fingernails clawing on the inside before she gave premature birth and watched her die.  Let's also keep in mind that in this article many of the women didn't want to leave because they were concerned they could not find as a good a paying job once they were ready to work again.  This even though companies are still finding ways to fire pregnant women before they can even apply for maternity leave.

 

Empathy is the word that I only saw a handful of times in this thread, I was hoping to see it more.

[No Excuses]

9 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Beal highlighted a core issue: we put what should be the government's responsibility on the business community.  Most business are not best equipped to make decisions about the healthcare of their employees and yet they must.  There is no common sense regulation.  There is no single payer healthcare.  What we've got is a hodgepodge of systems that are monstrously ineffective and inefficient and a smattering of cases of ugly injustice, one type of which this article highlights, and they are probably a lot more widespread than we imagine.  Americans are forced to make so many ****ing terrible and inhumane choices about their healthcare, this is just another drop in the ocean of our disgraceful healthcare system.

 

Yup. The government needs to step in and subsidize paid leave, child care and better family friendly policies. 

 

I think in general we also need sweeping legislation aimed at strengthening workers rights, particularly at big companies where leave and medical policies are not flexible.

[Bozo the kKklown]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

No, not really, that was the point of the thread:

 

 

 

I'm really not sure how many of ya'll finished the article or need to read it again, but there's a section where one employee said she was feeling pain and asked to go home early and the manager told her to get an abortion.  Another felt her baby's fingernails clawing on the inside before she gave premature birth and watched her die.  Let's also keep in mind that in this article many of the women didn't want to leave because they were concerned they could not find as a good a paying job once they were ready to work again.  This even though companies are still finding ways to fire pregnant women before they can even apply for maternity leave.

 

Empathy is the word that I only saw a handful of times in this thread, I was hoping to see it more.

and don't forget about the woman who died and the manager told the employees to work around her dead body.

 

We will never see any changes until we start demanding workers rights since corporations are interested in stripping it away and elected officials are acquiescing.

[No Excuses]

3 hours ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

 

If $100k in student debt gets you to where you wanna be financially and that trade off is worth it for you. Then go for it.

 

If you want a $100k to spend on a boat. And your priority is boating, then go on with your boat self.

 

Spending a $100k on anything is insane to me. Apologies if my word choice rubbed ya the wrong way. 

 

 

 

There are plenty of professions where a good education is legitimately that expensive. Our economy needs people actively entering such expensive programs.

 

Right now the burden falls entirely on students, especially if they don’t come from a privileged background. A society that cares about upwards mobility for its citizens steps in and subsidizes these costs.

 

We need people with advanced degrees. We especially need more people who don’t come from financially loaded backgrounds entering elite schools without becoming debt ridden.

 

Stories of bootstrap achievement always miss the point that no one is arguing for a free ride. We should get talented people enrolling in expensive training programs and have them focus their energy and brainpower on meaningful things, rather than saddling them with debt and anxiety. 

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I apologize for my part in blowing this thing up.  But I thought the article was kinda inflammatory...overtly visceral, even.  So I tried to push back a little with some additional perspective.

 

At the least, it led to some informative discussion.

 

Still love you, @Destino!

I'll be honest, when I saw your comment about "why should Verizon care?", I didn't think you read the full article and so didn't feel like responding to you on it.  I don't know how anyone can come out of reading that whole thing and asking "why should Verizon care?"  That didn't warrant any inflammatory comments towards you, but I knew it was inevitable.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

25 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

There are plenty of professions where a good education is legitimately that expensive. Our economy needs people actively entering such expensive programs.

 Such as? And isn't this why we have scholarships and grants? My University had an entire HUGE program that was strickly income based and offered more then just educational assistance for the collegian's entire undergrad. Many colleges and universities have such programs - to make sure that those that have the knowledge and ability are not held back simply due to their income bracket. 

 

 

Quote

Right now the burden falls entirely on students, especially if they don’t come from a privileged background. A society that cares about upwards mobility for its citizens steps in and subsidizes these costs.

 

and many are starting to. I think NC all instate tuitions are $500 a semester? Using the FAFSA also assists with finding grants and monies available. Who should the burden fall on, if not the student?

 

 

Quote

 

We need people with advanced degrees. We especially need more people who don’t come from financially loaded backgrounds entering elite schools without becoming debt ridden.

 

And this is starting too, many Ivy leagues have recently admitted "we charge the high tuition because we can" and are starting to open more programs to allow those that can't afford. Advance degrees are fun, I'm working on one. But this whole "I need it from an Ivy league or private institution" is silly

 

 

Quote

 

Stories of bootstrap achievement always miss the point that no one is arguing for a free ride. We should get talented people enrolling in expensive training programs and have them focus their energy and brainpower on meaningful things, rather than saddling them with debt and anxiety. 

Why does expensive = quality?

 

So I can't really get into details on my job, but I work for a company that has about 20K small/med businesses as clients. Those clients, the C-Suites that are running the show....you know how many don't actually have a pretty named school on their resume? A LOT. 
You really don't need the shiny, glossy name on the piece of paper that says you served your dues in higher ed. Company's just want to see that you put forth the effort to immerse yourself in your field.