NY Times: Miscarrying at Work - The Physical Toll of Pregnancy Discrimination

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Nah, I'm not the one making the claims. I know my truth. I got other things to spend time on then trying to change the mindset of those most likely not actually open for other views. 

 

This is a discussion forum, and yea, you are making claims.  Doesn't have to be an argument, can be a compromise, which starts with talking about it.

[tshile]

32 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I would wager a lot of people here haven’t read their own employee handbooks at their jobs.

 

I think you’re right in the bet. 

 

I’m willing to be that means something different to you than to me.

 

People can’t be bothered to read their employee handbook. Want someone else to do it for them, then explain it to them. Also want others to feel bad for them not knowing their rights. 

 

Most of the stuff youre saying people don’t know is required to be posted in common areas at work for them to read, I believe. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

26 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

I think you’re right in the bet. 

 

I’m willing to be that means something different to you than to me.

 

People can’t be bothered to read their employee handbook. Want someone else to do it for them, then explain it to them. Also want others to feel bad for them not knowing their rights. 

 

Most of the stuff youre saying people don’t know is required to be posted in common areas at work for them to read, I believe. 

My job has the handbook online.

 

I was never told of where it was and I went through three orientations.

 

 

My first job, we didn't even have an employee handbook.

 

Regardless of the desire of an employee to read the handbook, a lot of organizations do not make it accessible or understandable.

 

That is only my experience, others may have it different.

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

It's the difference between talking about being a space faring species that can teraform planets like Mars to help with our growing population or just accept that billions of us are going to die despite seeing it coming.  We aren't the dinosaurs, we can see and stop the asteroid if we want to.

 

 

You talk like the only choices are keep expanding population size without thought to what a good size is or full-blown armegedon.  Surely there is a middle area.  

 

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Overpopulation is basically Bill Gates/Super wealthy person talking point that needs to stop.

 

We aren't overpopulated. Our issue is that we need to get off fossil fuel.

 

 

I have no clue what you are even talking about with the first line.  And can you expand on why you think we aren't overpopulated?  Do you think there is a limit at all on healthy population size?

 

Quote

(this thread has veered wildly off topic)

 

I disagree.  When talking about how much businesses/society/government should do to help the reproducing process, the discussion of if we should even be encouraging growth of population size is relevent.   

 

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You should just make your own hornets nest, I mean, thread : )

 

I'll have papers to do tonight, but I will respond.  I see you poking a lot of holes in that topic, i like to see you lay what you think the problem and solution is, do a poll, and see the responses you get.  

 

Pretty sure there is a college tuition thread.  I just don't remember what it is called.  If anyone knows and can bump it for her, that would be helpful.

 

51 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

I feel you on Department of Labor, but a lot of companies are not proactive in informing people of their rights. You can say, “look on your own,” but how realistic is that? I would wager a lot of people here haven’t read their own employee handbooks at their jobs.

 

Ahhhh.  The arguement that truly separates me from liberals.  If they aren't even reading the handbook, that is on them.  A lot of information is usually presented in those including their rights as workers.  As for looking on their own, there is actually a great website that can help them find the information they need.  I'll link it below.  Maybe people just haven't been told enough how useful it can be.  We need to make sure more people are aware of it.  Here is the link:

 

www.google.com

[thegreaterbuzzette]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

This was reported to the media. (Hence the article)

 

I feel you on Department of Labor, but a lot of companies are not proactive in informing people of their rights. You can say, “look on your own,” but how realistic is that? I would wager a lot of people here haven’t read their own employee handbooks at their jobs.

Love that you felt the need to point out they went to media. Clearly they did. The question was a general "what are options employees have" at least from my interpretation. 

 

Again with inturupting actual debate and discussion with frivolous items.

 

Also, people need to be their own best advocates. It's not up to someone else to baby them.  If they aren't even reading their damn handbook (which I promise you they most likely signed something saying they did) then nothing will help them. You can't walk around with hands over your eyes and then complain about not being able to see.

[Bozo the kKklown]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I have no clue what you are even talking about with the first line.  And can you expand on why you think we aren't overpopulated?  Do you think there is a limit at all on healthy population size?

Bill Gates says Africa is overpopulated and we need to do something about it.

 

Overpopulation is only a concept the super elite want to push in order to hoard resources. 

 

We, in the West, need to treat the environment better and use resources better and more efficiently, not kill half the population. (For instance, Bill Gates thinks overpopulation in Africa is going to be a catastrophic issue.  How? The US has more carbon emissions than the entirety of sub-saharan Africa

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations=ZG vs. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations=US)

 

8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I disagree.  When talking about how much businesses/society/government should do to help the reproducing process, the discussion of if we should even be encouraging growth of population size is relevent.   

 

The debate veered to tuition cost and higher education.

 

8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

If they aren't even reading the handbook, that is on them.

Read my later posts. You won't agree anyway but thats my context.

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just now, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Love that you felt the need to point out they went to media. Clearly they did. The question was a general "what are options employees have" at least from my interpretation. 

Ooookay 🤔

 

When I asked what could they have done, I meant legally. The article linked the Pregnancy Discrimination clause in the Civil Rights Act, and I wanted to know what specifically in the law they could do.

1 minute ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Also, people need to be their own best advocates. It's not up to someone else to baby them.  If they aren't even reading their damn handbook (which I promise you they most likely signed something saying they did) then nothing will help them. You can't walk around with hands over your eyes and then complain about not being able to see.

I don't disagree with any of this.

 

I also don't think organizations are doing enough beyond the bare minimum to educate their employees either.

 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I also don't think organizations are doing enough beyond the bare minimum to educate their employees either.

 

I disagree. While perhaps the extremely small business, like Joe's Hardware that has 2 employees. 

 

Instead what happens is the states keep changing and updating the laws to be more and more inclusive and more and more liberal, that employees are getting inundated with notices and are just ignoring them. 

 

The laws and applicable court cases vary greatly by state. Is there a particular one you would like me to look at? @TheGreatBuzz just linked this fantastic website I can use to pull some references for you.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just now, BenningRoadSkin said:

Bill Gates says Africa is overpopulated and we need to do something about it.

 

Overpopulation is only a concept the super elite want to push in order to hoard resources. 

 

We, in the West, need to treat the environment better and use resources better and more efficiently, not kill half the population. (For instance, Bill Gates thinks overpopulation in Africa is going to be a catastrophic issue.  How? The US has more carbon emissions than the entirety of sub-saharan Africa

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations=ZG vs. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?locations=US)

I wasn't aware of that.  I'd have to research it more but Bill Gates is a pretty smart guy and I don't think it is fair to say he is pushing it in order to hoard resources considering the good work he does with so much of his money.  Yes, we need to be more efficeint with resources and better for the enviroment.  But hope for the best, plan for the worst.  

 

8 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The debate veered to tuition cost and higher education.

Oh yea, that was off topic.  I thought you were talking about the population thing.  Sorry.

 

9 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Read my later posts. You won't agree anyway but thats my context.

You're right, I don't agree.  You could have asked.  And even if they don't have a handbook, there are lots of other resources.  It just requires a little legwork.  I literally spent less than 5 minutes and found all the pregnant labor laws and who to report complaints to for the state of Nevada (picked a random state because I couldn't remember the one from the article).

 

7 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I don't disagree with any of this.

Based on your posting history, I'm not surprised.  You have never come across as a big fan of personal responsibility.

[TheDoyler23]

 

 

32 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

If they aren't even reading the handbook, that is on them.  A lot of information is usually presented in those including their rights as workers. 

 

I agree with this. Read the handbook front to back and keep a copy.  Ask questions if you have them and seek clarification if the company appears to be contradicting their policies and procedures or the law. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

There's an inordinate amount of smugness in this thread...carry on.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

10 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

There's an inordinate amount of smugness in this thread...carry on.

You misspelled common sense. 

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

You talk like the only choices are keep expanding population size without thought to what a good size is or full-blown armegedon.  Surely there is a middle area.  

 

I didn't, that's just how you took it.  China tried the 1 kid plan, I'm not sure if the ramifications of a 2 kid policy.  No Excuses kinda said same thing I did that we are getting away with it because of immigration, but there are countries that will still be under replacement rate and those that will be over no matter what law unless they start doing something they ain't got no business doing.  Interesting convo, though we should be talking about spreading out in space anyway and we are already not meeting needs of huge swaths of the population, so we should practice.  It's really unnerving some of the choices that would have to be maintained to enforce this while also making sure to avoid the population dropping.

 

10 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

Pretty sure there is a college tuition thread.  I just don't remember what it is called.  If anyone knows and can bump it for her, that would be helpful.

 

You probably right, wasn't sure where it was or worried it might not met her point.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

You misspelled common sense. 

 

There it is! 

 

It's not the advice necessarily...certainly a lot of the resources and suggestions given in here by all are probably quite helpful. 

 

It's more the "I made x decision to accomplish y and that's sufficient for my expectations, so I don't understand why that wouldn't work for everyone" mentality that I'm reading. There are so many factors at play...that it comes off as preachy to assume that everyone can or should follow the same path. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

There are so many factors at play...that it comes off as preachy to assume that everyone can or should follow the same path.

I don't won't to go down the whole tuition path again so I'll just say I can understand your feelings about comments regarding that.  Expecting someone to put in even a small amount of effort to see what their employee rights are shouldn't be preachy.  It is expecting people to adult.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

There it is! 

 

It's not the advice necessarily...certainly a lot of the resources and suggestions given in here by all are probably quite helpful. 

 

It's more the "I made x decision to accomplish y and that's sufficient for my expectations, so I don't understand why that wouldn't work for everyone" mentality that I'm reading. There are so many factors at play...that it comes off as preachy to assume that everyone can or should follow the same path. 

Quite contrary- there are multiple paths. And no one path works for everyone. But sitting in a circle with eyes, ears, and mouth closed is not a path. 

 

Yes, there are people that do all the right things and still fail. Heck I'll even give you does MOST of the right things and still fail. But that population, I'm willing to bet, is much smaller then you actually think. 

 

I notice most of the counter arguments on here have been some version of "I worked hard, know rights, am successful in life - but that's not fair to assume for everyone" but no one is speaking up to say "I made sound, reasonable life choices, tried hard, worked hard, educated myself - and still got the short end of the stick".

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

11 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

There it is! 

 

It's not the advice necessarily...certainly a lot of the resources and suggestions given in here by all are probably quite helpful. 

 

It's more the "I made x decision to accomplish y and that's sufficient for my expectations, so I don't understand why that wouldn't work for everyone" mentality that I'm reading. There are so many factors at play...that it comes off as preachy to assume that everyone can or should follow the same path. 

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I don't won't to go down the whole tuition path again so I'll just say I can understand your feelings about comments regarding that.  Expecting someone to put in even a small amount of effort to see what their employee rights are shouldn't be preachy.  It is expecting people to adult.

 

I have no issue with that. I have to sign something every year acknowledging the changes of my Employee Handbook. I know that I'm fully responsible to understand what's in there. Having said that, the EH debate was pretty minor in the 5-6 pages of debate in here. 

 

2 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Quite contrary- there are multiple paths. And no one path works for everyone. But sitting in a circle with eyes, ears, and mouth closed is not a path. 

 

Yes, there are people that do all the right things and still fail. Heck I'll even give you does MOST of the right things and still fail. But that population, I'm willing to bet, is much smaller then you actually think. 

 

I notice most of the counter arguments on here have been some version of "I worked hard, know rights, am successful in life - but that's not fair to assume for everyone" but no one is speaking up to say "I made sound, reasonable life choices, tried hard, worked hard, educated myself - and still got the short end of the stick".

 

A lot of this is circumstantial though. I haven't worked particularly harder than anyone else from what I can see. But I have done fine. I graduated college and earn a nice living in Federal IT BS work. I don't live my dream, but I can provide for my two kids. I know that younger people coming up now are required to work much harder than I did. Kids who go to the same school I attended in the 90s (JMU) need much better grades to get in and much better grades coming out to find a comparable entry-level job. So, I take pride in what I've accomplished while also realizing that where I've ended up is due to far more than just the effort I've put in. 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I have no issue with that. I have to sign something every year acknowledging the changes of my Employee Handbook. I know that I'm fully responsible to understand what's in there. Having said that, the EH debate was pretty minor in the 5-6 pages of debate in here. 

 

 

A lot of this is circumstantial though. I haven't worked particularly harder than anyone else from what I can see. But I have done fine. I graduated college and earn a nice living in Federal IT BS work. I don't live my dream, but I can provide for my two kids. I know that younger people coming up now are required to work much harder than I did. Kids who go to the same school I attended in the 90s (JMU) need much better grades to get in and much better grades coming out to find a comparable entry-level job. So, I take pride in what I've accomplished while also realizing that where I've ended up is due to far more than just the effort I've put in. 

Jobs that ask to see grades....that's a very small list as well. Most just care that you graduated with a BA/BS.

 

And speaking of different paths. There are non college paths that make tons of money. 

 

Again, back to choices and priorities. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

6 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Jobs that ask to see grades....that's a very small list as well. Most just care that you graduated with a BA/BS.

 

And speaking of different paths. There are non college paths that make tons of money. 

 

Again, back to choices and priorities. 

 

I get it...but not everyone's ultimate goal is "make tons of money" 

 

Listen, I'm not going to argue that most of our decisions come down prioritizing things and sacrificing this to get that. But, not all things can be solved that way.

 

It just comes off that GreatBuzz and GreatBuzzette sit on your rockers, eating your Stouffers lasagna, and toast yourselves for acing this topsy-turvy world of ours. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

48 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'd have to research it more but Bill Gates is a pretty smart guy and I don't think it is fair to say he is pushing it in order to hoard resources considering the good work he does with so much of his money. 

This isn't the thread for this conversation, but be wary of wealthy philanthropy in developing countries or "the third world."

 

50 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Oh yea, that was off topic.  I thought you were talking about the population thing.  Sorry.

You are cool, but that is also wildly off topic. 

51 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

It just requires a little legwork.

That is the problem. Organizations need to be upfront in sharing this information. It shouldn't be on the employee to mine and pry for something that is relevant to their employment.

52 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

You have never come across as a big fan of personal responsibility.

I am a huge fan of personal responsibility. I also think the government is there to help us on that path. I am not sure a lot of Americans who say they are fans of personal responsibility are actual fans of it. (billionaires on down to poor farmers)

 

I am also not a fan of blaming the less fortunate for being less fortunate. 

 

 

1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

It just comes off that GreatBuzz and GreatBuzzette sit on your rockers, eating your Stouffers lasagna, and toast yourselves for acing this topsy-turvy world of ours. 

exactly.

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Instead what happens is the states keep changing and updating the laws to be more and more inclusive and more and more liberal, that employees are getting inundated with notices and are just ignoring them. 

there was a post in this thread about members of Congress trying to make these it harder to actually go through holding your employer accountable. (this is another bit of personal responsibility, employers not adhering to federal laws and the government attempting to make that institutionalized)

3 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

It depends on the work place and what they do for people suffering from disabilities that are somewhat similar, but the EEOC will sue employers and force them to change their behavior if they are treating pregnant people differently than people with a disability with similar affects.

 

e.g.

https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/release/9-21-18a.cfm

 

This is a case where government needs to probably be more pro-active and more needs to be done to inform the public, but I am not sure this is a case where we need new laws vs. just actually making sure the laws we have are actively enforced (which requires a large enough government to carry out that enforcement and an educated public to have some idea of the laws).

 

(Though, Republicans are purposely making it very hard for the EEOC do its (legal) job:

 

https://medium.com/@treasurelife999/nixon-employed-2-416-eeoc-employees-in-1974-vs-trump-employed-only-2-082-eeoc-employees-in-2017-a272ffe5d921)

 

[PleaseBlitz]

19 hours ago, tshile said:

 

Completely bogus logic. There’s more to having a newborn than whether it popped out your hole or someone else’s. Most of which is to help the woman that just popped a kid out. 

 

Ridiculous. 

 

 

Wow, I can't even with this.  Are you really saying that men go through the same thing as women when birthing a kid?  What.  The.  ****.  

[PleaseBlitz]

27 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Jobs that ask to see grades....that's a very small list as well. Most just care that you graduated with a BA/BS.

 

This just is not true.  Entry level jobs are highly competitive and, by definition, the ways employers make those decisions are largely based on the school you went to and the grades you received.  I think you are extrapolating your own experiences in a narrow field to the job market at-large. 

 

27 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

 

And speaking of different paths. There are non college paths that make tons of money. 

 

There are a lot more college paths that make tons of money.  

 

 

[PeterMP]

I seriously doubt that many employee handbooks talk about your rights when you are pregnant or what to do if you are given work that endangers a pregnancy.

 

(e.g. http://www.rfsuny.org/media/RFSUNY/Documents/HR/Employee-Handbook.pdf

 

no mention of pregnancy in a 37 page employee handbook.

 

https://www.du.edu/human-resources/media/documents/employee_handbook_may2013.pdf

 

34 pages no mention of pregnancy

 

In NJ, it is now actually the law that they specifically have to mention pregnancy so if you get one from something in NJ that'll be one of the exceptions.)

 

From there, the government absolutely has a role in being pro-active in terms of helping people know their rights and identifying cases where rights are being denied.

 

We don't take that attitude with any other crime.  When somebody gets murdered, we don't say, well too bad.  Should have known his rights.  We as a society as a whole are harmed when employers to this sort of thing.

 

In terms of education, in science, experience is extremely important and having access to do meaningful research as an undergraduate is very important.  Science research in many fields has changed drastically over the last 20 years and as such has become much more expensive, and funding at small(er) state schools for the most part (by states, and by federal institutions such as the NIH and NSF) have not kept up.  Most schools (for states that can be read as the state system) are chasing federal grant dollars (and the associated overhead costs) to the places that are most research active, but that means the budgets of other institutions in a state system are left behind.  And federal funding agencies are emphasizing funding experiences that give clearly tangible results so they can point to them as a way to justify their budgets (e.g. not the long term benefits associated with delivering a good education).

 

In my career, I've been associated with different types of institutions and went to a small state school, but that was 25+ years ago now.  You've put yourself at a pretty big disadvantage in the sciences if that's your plan today more so than 25+ years ago.

 

(I have a niece that was a biology major, went to a smaller school, and then was talking about going on to grad school, and I was telling my mom when she was a junior that my niece should be doing X, Y, and Z.  My mom said, you didn't do any of those things, and you've got a good job.  I told her the world has changed in 25 years.)

 

Even for entry level jobs in scientific fields, not only do grades matter, but have you done research, what kind of research have you done, and can you talk intelligently about your research.  Today, it is very hard to accumulate those kind of experiences at most smaller state schools.  They just don't have the money to fund robust experiences over multiple years for a given student.

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

I disagree. While perhaps the extremely small business, like Joe's Hardware that has 2 employees. 

 

Instead what happens is the states keep changing and updating the laws to be more and more inclusive and more and more liberal, that employees are getting inundated with notices and are just ignoring them. 

 

The laws and applicable court cases vary greatly by state. Is there a particular one you would like me to look at? @TheGreatBuzz just linked this fantastic website I can use to pull some references for you.

 

Yes, that's right.  The problem with people not knowing their rights is because liberals are making companies actually make sure that people have access to the information related to their rights.

 

 

You know what would make it even worse, is if the EEOC had money in their budget to run tv commercials to help make sure people knew their rights and that they should have access to the information associated with their rights.

[Renegade7]

Couldn't agree more on the PSA thing, and not just for this topic