NY Times: Miscarrying at Work - The Physical Toll of Pregnancy Discrimination

[NoCalMike]

Most companies that have you sign off annually on the employee handbook are doing it purely for liability issues. They take no actual care or measures to make sure people actually go through it and have an understanding of it.

 

At my company we are required to do annual waste, fraud, & abuse compliance training.  They are power point modules with a quiz at the end.  The quiz questions for the most part are pretty generic and easy to answer without having read any of the training.

 

These kinds of things are more to protect the company than to aid the employees with anything.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

Most companies that have you sign off annually on the employee handbook are doing it purely for liability issues. They take no actual care or measures to make sure people actually go through it and have an understanding of it.

 

At my company we are required to do annual waste, fraud, & abuse compliance training.  They are power point modules with a quiz at the end.  The quiz questions for the most part are pretty generic and easy to answer without having read any of the training.

 

These kinds of things are more to protect the company than to aid the employees with anything.

 

I agree...but also don't know how much more the company should be expected to invest in this. 

 

Someone is creating the handbook, maintaining it to ensure it's up to code each year based on new regulations, then distributing it somehow to be reviewed and signed off on by each employee. The signature, as you say, is for their purposes. But, the content of it is for us...so it's incumbent on us to read up on it. 

 

Now, having said that, I don't. But I'm also the same guy who frantically looks things up AFTER they've occurred and hope they are favorable to me. "What?? We don't get Arbor Day off??"

[thegreaterbuzzette]

O wow. I don't even know where to begin - 

 

Firstly, since this thread appears to be my initiation and intro to this forum.....

I'm a registered Republican, yes. I'm an anti-trumper. I'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I'd be third-party if some of their opinions/platforms werent super crazy. I'd be an Independent if my state didn't have closed primaries. This last election I voted almost all blue. When the first travel ban occurred, that night I grabbed a friend and went to a local Mosque for a potluck to show compassion and friendship. So please, dont question my character or limit me to what you think the GOP represents. 

 

Now that this is out of the way. 

I don't sit on my soapbox and judge or blame others. I also don't sit on my hands, shrug, and say "guess theres nothing I can do."

 

I actually am very philanthropic to help others - be it animals, the Special Olympics or human trafficking victims. I will do anything and everything I can to help someone who needs and wants help. I however, have very little patience for those that refuse help or continue to do the opposite of that suggested from others. 

 

Now my job, I'm only saying this because you said I'm basing all this off only my limited personal experience and bubble. I have 15+ years of HR experience stemming from private sector, publically traded, government contractor, and both appropriated and non- appropriated government. I am certified and in pursuit of my MBA with a concentration in HR as well, while simultaneously obtaining advanced six sigma and PMP certifications. Why do I say all this.....because it means I know what In talking about. I currently support a company that works with 20000 small - medium size businesses and my job involves getting into the nitty gritty of their policies and procedures. 

 

....now, I feel like an @$$ for having said all that. But do not EVER try to define me based on my political party or say that I'm not where I am because of hard work, integrity, and grit.

 

When you say someone is only where they are due to priviledge and luck - it also allows you to say someone else is only in their position out of bad lucky and have no accountability of their own.

 

Saying someone needs to help themselves is not the same as saying that government and huge corporations have no accountability. There is plenty of blame to go around. We all have a part to play. We don't live in a world of absolutes. But we also shouldn't only cater to the lowest denominator.

 

The end.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

11 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

O wow. I don't even know where to begin - 

 

Firstly, since this thread appears to be my initiation and intro to this forum.....

I'm a registered Republican, yes. I'm an anti-trumper. I'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I'd be third-party if some of their opinions/platforms werent super crazy. I'd be an Independent if my state didn't have closed primaries. This last election I voted almost all blue. When the first travel ban occurred, that night I grabbed a friend and went to a local Mosque for a potluck to show compassion and friendship. So please, dont question my character or limit me to what you think the GOP represents. 

 

Now that this is out of the way. 

I don't sit on my soapbox and judge or blame others. I also don't sit on my hands, shrug, and say "guess theres nothing I can do."

 

I actually am very philanthropic to help others - be it animals, the Special Olympics or human trafficking victims. I will do anything and everything I can to help someone who needs and wants help. I however, have very little patience for those that refuse help or continue to do the opposite of that suggested from others. 

 

Now my job, I'm only saying this because you said I'm basing all this off only my limited personal experience and bubble. I have 15+ years of HR experience stemming from private sector, publically traded, government contractor, and both appropriated and non- appropriated government. I am certified and in pursuit of my MBA with a concentration in HR as well, while simultaneously obtaining advanced six sigma and PMP certifications. Why do I say all this.....because it means I know what In talking about. I currently support a company that works with 20000 small - medium size businesses and my job involves getting into the nitty gritty of their policies and procedures. 

 

....now, I feel like an @$$ for having said all that. But do not EVER try to define me based on my political party or say that I'm not where I am because of hard work, integrity, and grit.

 

When you say someone is only where they are due to priviledge and luck - it also allows you to say someone else is only in their position out of bad lucky and have no accountability of their own.

 

Saying someone needs to help themselves is not the same as saying that government and huge corporations have no accountability. There is plenty of blame to go around. We all have a part to play. We don't live in a world of absolutes. But we also shouldn't only cater to the lowest denominator.

 

The end.

Thanks for that...no need to feel bad. 

 

As it relates to the bolded section (because I think that's based on my posts), I never claimed people are ONLY someplace due to privilege and luck. But I believe it plays a role for sure. 

 

I am confident that there are plenty of people 20 years younger than I am (I'm 41) who have worked harder, made fewer mistakes, and saved more diligently than I have but are much worse off than I was at their age. I graduated college in 1999 when IT companies were handing out jobs and essentially stashing college-educated kids like me on their benches before matching them up with billable positions. Hell, with a very modest GPA, I was even offered a signing bonus!! I blew through my savings in the first couple years I was out in the real world living and drinking in Arlington, VA. Despite all of that, I haven't faced any type of financial emergency, eventually have bought 2 different houses, and have plenty of money stashed away for my two kids. 

 

There are people who didn't do all the stupid things I did, worked harder and did better in college, and are much more qualified who aren't as fortunate as I am. I have a hard time just writing that off and not acknowledging that luck and circumstances play a considerably large role in how our lives go. That doesn't mean I encourage those people to give up or anything...but it's a real factor. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

^^^^Did you see that resume?  Sugar momma!!!

[NoCalMike]

I obviously didn't get to this thread until it has become 7 pages long.  Been so busy at work lately.  Looks like I have missed a lot. LOL.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

^^^^Did you see that resume?  Sugar momma!!!

 

"We did it honey!"

[thegreaterbuzzette]

3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Thanks for that...no need to feel bad. 

 

Well gosh, I really expected the first reply to be attacking me for something. Thanks for proving me wrong. 

 

I actually dont think our opinions are far apart. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

 

Well gosh, I really expected the first reply to be attacking me for something. Thanks for proving me wrong. 

 

I actually dont think our opinions are far apart. 

 

[PeterMP]

I just wanted to add as a measure  of how much this country has changed so quickly.  My dad was a 2nd generation pull yourself up by your boot straps religious conservative.

 

He was the kind of the person that didn't take government assistance even when he was eligible.  When I was young, we were eligible for reduced school lunch programs, but he didn't accept it for 2 reasons:

 

1.  Nobody made him have a bunch of kids and nobody else should have to be responsible for it.

2.  Other people had it worse and him taking resources meant there was less assistance for them.

 

There was personal responsibility component to, but there was just as large if not larger societal moral responsibility.

 

The current Republican party has lost that.  In cases like this, when something bad happens to somebody, the first thing they do is point out the person's failure(s).

 

He'd be astounded that people that called themselves Republicans would walk into a thread like this and make the focus of their (initial) posts the personsal responsibility component of it, while essentially ignoring the larger moral societal component to it.

 

We as a society have a moral obligation to recognize that people are going to fail.  They are going to bite off more than they can chew, and they are not (always) going to practice good personal responsibility, and when that happens, we should help them.

 

Yes, there are people that are going to go through life not being able to see because they are covering their eyes, but that does not eliminate or even diminish our societal moral responsibilities to that person.

 

If you see somebody with their eyes covered walk into a man hole without doing anything about, you've failed society.  It is our job as a society to help them until they remove their hands and even work to get them to remove their hands.  Not just throw up our hands and walk away.

 

(and once upon a time for many "conservatives" that would have been unacceptable.   Laws forcing companies to post information related to workers rights would not have been "liberal" or "bad" because the company would have had a moral responsibility to inform the workers themselves so any law would have been irrelevant and not affected anything).

[JSSkinz]

22 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I went to ITT, which got down by the feds for a reason because of predatory loans among other things, that's 80% of it, for a 4 year degree. 

From what I just read ITT's annual cost is $45,000 - $85,000 per year?  That's as much as it cost to attend Harvard, what about that school would make you sign up for that?

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

From what I just read ITT's annual cost is $45,000 - $85,000 per year?  That's as much as it cost to attend Harvard, what about that school would make you sign up for that?

 

Don't know where you saw that, it was about 40k for associates, bachelors eventually became 80k+ because on interest. It would be more if not for private loans disappearing from my credit report, wouldn't shocked if related to court cases because i wasn't running from them and they eventually stopped calling.

 

At the time, the bottom was completely falling out the economy and I needed to make sure i had job skills that mattered no matter where it went soon as possible, not a bunch of general Ed courses.  I didn't understand the fine print, neither did my sister, we just knew we had to save ourselves and did.

 

  Schools like that prey on people like us, i have no regrets on it and they are out of business.  Following legal cases, it's very possible only thing in way of feds forgiving some or all public loans for people that went there is Devos.  Funny how things work out some times, we'll see.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

11 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

I just wanted to add as a measure  of how much this country has changed so quickly.  My dad was a 2nd generation pull yourself up by your boot straps religious conservative.

 

He was the kind of the person that didn't take government assistance even when he was eligible.  When I was young, we were eligible for reduced school lunch programs, but he didn't accept it for 2 reasons:

 

1.  Nobody made him have a bunch of kids and nobody else should have to be responsible for it.

2.  Other people had it worse and him taking resources meant there was less assistance for them.

 

There was personal responsibility component to, but there was just as large if not larger societal moral responsibility.

 

The current Republican party has lost that.  In cases like this, when something bad happens to somebody, the first thing they do is point out the person's failure(s).

 

He'd be astounded that people that called themselves Republicans would walk into a thread like this and make the focus of their (initial) posts the personsal responsibility component of it, while essentially ignoring the larger moral societal component to it.

 

We as a society have a moral obligation to recognize that people are going to fail.  They are going to bite off more than they can chew, and they are not (always) going to practice good personal responsibility, and when that happens, we should help them.

 

Yes, there are people that are going to go through life not being able to see because they are covering their eyes, but that does not eliminate or even diminish our societal moral responsibilities to that person.

 

If you see somebody with their eyes covered walk into a man hole without doing anything about, you've failed society.  It is our job as a society to help them until they remove their hands and even work to get them to remove their hands.  Not just throw up our hands and walk away.

 

(and once upon a time for many "conservatives" that would have been unacceptable.   Laws forcing companies to post information related to workers rights would not have been "liberal" or "bad" because the company would have had a moral responsibility to inform the workers themselves so any law would have been irrelevant and not affected anything).

First, your Dad sounds amazing, and how I live my life.

 

But let's take a different look at your walking into a manhole analogy. For 5 miles I've placed "warning manhole" signs, a mile out they had flashing lights. 100 yards out they had audible alarms too. As they approached the man hole opening I explained to them the reasons it was bad to proceed walking forward. Seeing this was futile I chose to make the man hole entry (giggle) as pain free as possible (double giggle) and placed pillows and padding at the bottom so their continued ignorance resulted in the least amount of pain. They stepped thru the open cover and fall anyway.

 

But again. I repeat this for all the people doing the same behind them.

 

Just because I question their logic and say they should do better, does not mean I stop trying to change the path of the next in line. 

 

Again, we are not in a cut and dry world. One belief does not effect my ability to still help. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

18 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

(and once upon a time for many "conservatives" that would have been unacceptable.   Laws forcing companies to post information related to workers rights would not have been "liberal" or "bad" because the company would have had a moral responsibility to inform the workers themselves so any law would have been irrelevant and not affected anything).

I don't think anyone has been saying companies shouldn't post that info.  The debate was more if the employee didn't take advantage of the info provided, or didn't do some of their own research absent of info provided by the company, is the company still at fault.

 

 

[JSSkinz]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Don't know where you saw that, it was about 40k for associates, bachelors eventually became 80k+ because on interest.

I just checked out the Wiki page and it said the cost was $45k - $85k per year, I thought that sounded outrageous for 1 year of tuition based on the school's merit.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

O wow. I don't even know where to begin - 

 

Firstly, since this thread appears to be my initiation and intro to this forum.....

I'm a registered Republican, yes. I'm an anti-trumper. I'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I'd be third-party if some of their opinions/platforms werent super crazy. I'd be an Independent if my state didn't have closed primaries. This last election I voted almost all blue. When the first travel ban occurred, that night I grabbed a friend and went to a local Mosque for a potluck to show compassion and friendship. So please, dont question my character or limit me to what you think the GOP represents. 

 

You dont need to tell us any if that.  Most of this we either knew or figured because of your previous posts and Buzz morale fiber concerning his clear separation between being a Republican and being a conservative.  You have more co paint here then you realize.

 

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Now that this is out of the way. 

I don't sit on my soapbox and judge or blame others. I also don't sit on my hands, shrug, and say "guess theres nothing I can do."

 

I actually am very philanthropic to help others - be it animals, the Special Olympics or human trafficking victims. I will do anything and everything I can to help someone who needs and wants help. I however, have very little patience for those that refuse help or continue to do the opposite of that suggested from others. 

this is fairly obvious as well, and despite you having trouble getting across what you mean by that, it has come completely across like if someone doesnt take your advice or approach, they deserve what they get.  This is the wrong approach, not everyone is you, so.etimes you are wrong, people have to be able to decide what's best for them and people support them doing it. 

 

I made an unrealistic level of sacrifice to get where I am, our first day running IT Club on a weekend we let people bring their kids if we knew someone could watch them instead of saying tough ****.  Parents eventually stopped bringing them out of respect, but I made clear looking at the demographic I needed to meet them halfway best I could if I really wanted to help them get where I was.

 

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Now my job, I'm only saying this because you said I'm basing all this off only my limited personal experience and bubble. I have 15+ years of HR experience stemming from private sector, publically traded, government contractor, and both appropriated and non- appropriated government. I am certified and in pursuit of my MBA with a concentration in HR as well, while simultaneously obtaining advanced six sigma and PMP certifications. Why do I say all this.....because it means I know what In talking about. I currently support a company that works with 20000 small - medium size businesses and my job involves getting into the nitty gritty of their policies and procedures. 

 

Congrats, you still dont sound like someone who understands how my field works or what @No Excuses was trying to explain about his.  You need to listen, too.

 

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

....now, I feel like an @$$ for having said all that. But do not EVER try to define me based on my political party or say that I'm not where I am because of hard work, integrity, and grit.

 

No one did that, just because we disagree with you doesnt make this personal. You'll see that when you to another and for most part you're responded to based on your post in that thread and your overall respect for other posters.  That first doesnt follow you the way that second one does.

 

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

 

When you say someone is only where they are due to priviledge and luck - it also allows you to say someone else is only in their position out of bad lucky and have no accountability of their own.

 

Both can be true along with everything as there are no absolutes such as impossibilities.  The difference between the money Trump inherited and people born in South Sudan.   No one is saying you didnt work hard for what your success, neither should anyone the say the opposite for the opposite without even meeting them.  You're generalizations got you in trouble here more then anything else.

 

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Saying someone needs to help themselves is not the same as saying that government and huge corporations have no accountability. There is plenty of blame to go around. We all have a part to play. We don't live in a world of absolutes. But we also shouldn't only cater to the lowest denominator.

 

The end.

 

What do you mean by this, if you dont mind my asking?  If it is what I think it is, then I think you missed the point of the thread.  These women needed help, and didnt get it.  If people are saying a 40 year old law has loopholes that got exploited but they still had legal grounds to sue anyway, please provide the law or language that supports this jus so I'm on same page as you.  You talk a lot about your experience in HR, have you had a situation like that and what did you do?  Did they sue you? Did you tell them to?

27 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I just checked out the Wiki page and it said the cost was $45k - $85k per year, I thought that sounded outrageous for 1 year of tuition based on the school's merit.

 

 I see : )  someone might be having fun with that one

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

First, your Dad sounds amazing, and how I live my life.

 

But let's take a different look at your walking into a manhole analogy. For 5 miles I've placed "warning manhole" signs, a mile out they had flashing lights. 100 yards out they had audible alarms too. As they approached the man hole opening I explained to them the reasons it was bad to proceed walking forward. Seeing this was futile I chose to make the man hole entry (giggle) as pain free as possible (double giggle) and placed pillows and padding at the bottom so their continued ignorance resulted in the least amount of pain. They stepped thru the open cover and fall anyway.

 

But again. I repeat this for all the people doing the same behind them.

 

Just because I question their logic and say they should do better, does not mean I stop trying to change the path of the next in line. 

 

Again, we are not in a cut and dry world. One belief does not effect my ability to still help. 

 

To remove the analogy, in this thread, I've pointed to 2 things I think we can do, and you've implied one if them is actually part of the problem (and in the process sort of ridiculed it).

 

I could suggest others.  For example, specially in this day and age of the internet there isn't any good reason why I can't find huge (more than 30 some pages) on-line "employee handbooks" for any large company (well there is and that's because these companies don't want their policies in the open where anybody can scrutinize them). 

 

My mom is over 70 and still working.  If she has a problem at work (and is working for a reasonable sized company), with a good google search, I should be able pull up her employee handbook on-line and help her figure out a reasonable course of action.

 

If one of my younger sisters unexpectedly gets pregnant and is stressed about all sorts of things like pre-natal vitamins, picking an OB, and how having a baby is going to affect her long term living arrangement and doesn't have time worry about how it is going to affect her job as the pregnancy develops, with a good google search I should be able to go get here employee handbook on-line, read it, and then help her understand her options.

 

(I'll point out, that the ones that I did fine on-line for my earlier post are all from universities.  That's because in the name of allowing tax payers to be informed about where the money is going, they require universities to post all sorts of things publicly on-line today.)

 

Then as part of that, the on-line employee handbooks should be much more extensive and not just 30 some odd pages that don't mention pregnancy unless required to by state law.

 

From there, your attitude matters.  I teach at a college (and like most university professors had essentially no actual training in teaching before I started), but where I work runs a learning center that includes faculty development programs.  I think most professors attitudes when students do poorly on things is to (primarily) blame the students (I taught it, it isn't my fault they didn't learn it).  The people at the learning center will tell you that being your (primary) attitude is a path to failure.

 

It is my responsibility to teach it.  If they didn't learn it, I failed.  It doesn't matter what I did, my intentions or reasoning for doing what I did.  They didn't learn it.  I failed, which means I didn't do my job, and I need to go back and try again.

 

In terms of our manhole conversation, it is our (as a society) responsibility to make sure such people don't fall in the man hole.  It doesn't matter what we did to prevent it.  If they fall in, we failed.

 

(And I'll point out, I have some students that are smarter than me and could learn pretty much anything I have to teach on their own.  I could walk in the first day of class and say you are responsible for the information in chapters 1-8 (which is more than I cover in a normal semester), I'll see you for the final exam, and walk out.  And some students would learn the information and do well on the final exam so the fact that SOME learned it doesn't mean I didn't fail.)

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I don't think anyone has been saying companies shouldn't post that info.  The debate was more if the employee didn't take advantage of the info provided, or didn't do some of their own research absent of info provided by the company, is the company still at fault.

 

Your wife more than just implied that part of the problem was liberals requiring companies to inform their employees.

 

 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

28 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Congrats, you still dont sound like someone who understands how my field works or what @No Excuses was trying to explain about his.  You need to listen, too.

oh I have some. Security+ certified in my very early 20s, while working for a huge gov't contract at I believe one of, if not the largest (at the time) data centers in the US. 

But I am very rusty in it now, I'll admit. But one of the industries I work with a lot now is tech. Lots of block chain companies as we speak. 

 

oh and what I would do in the situation of the article : 

 

if I was HR - I'd of documented any and all conversations the employee had with me and ensure they signed off on it.

if I was the employee - I'd of document any and all conversations I had with any managers or HR and ensure it was sent via email for later

If I was the employee's co-worker - I'd advise them to go to the many resources and to document everything.

 

Perhaps you missed it in my previous posts. What is outline in the article (if true) is 100% not ok, inexcusable, and reprehensible. I hope it is fully investigated and if true the employees are paid  BANK and the employeers, HR, Managers, are never allowed to find employment where they supervise others ever again. 

It is stories like this that are why I am so passionate about my job, and helping those not educated in their rights - know them. 

 

I've many times helped complete strangers via forums and fb groups draft letters to their employers or agencies as needed. As well as given advice on what the rules were and were not. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

9 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

 

Your wife more than just implied that part of the problem was liberals requiring companies to inform their employees.

 

 

I guess we both read that differently.  I took it more as an explanation as to why employees don't pay attention to the info provided then a statement that liberals need to stop making new laws.  I see where you got that though.  I'll let @thegreaterbuzzette explain her intention with that post.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I guess we both read that differently.  I took it more as an explanation as to why employees don't pay attention to the info provided then a statement that liberals need to stop making new laws.  I see where you got that though.  I'll let @thegreaterbuzzette explain her intention with that post.

Yes, I was searching so I could copy the ENTIRE thing I said. Very suspicious that my last sentence was selectively used. 

What I said was, that company's are informing the people. But because the laws are changing so fast and so much recently (and the company's want to get that out to their employees), the employees are being overloaded with information and are naturally (we all do it) just ignoring them.

This was not to flame the employees, but the system. I agree there needs to be a better way to get the word out. But when law/judicial rulings/policies are changing so insanely quickly these days. Employees are getting inundated. it's a total catch 22. 

Most of the new laws and rulings have specific deadlines to advise the employees and specific language. And the language reads as nicely as IRS tax code. Good employers SHOULD be making that information more digestible and having their HR department clearly used for good and informational reasons, not just the place you go to get fired. 

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Don't know where you saw that, it was about 40k for associates, bachelors eventually became 80k+ because on interest. It would be more if not for private loans disappearing from my credit report, wouldn't shocked if related to court cases because i wasn't running from them and they eventually stopped calling.

 

 

This is correct.  What happened was the CFPB filled a complaint against them accusing them of predatory student lending (i.e., exactly what you've described).  Here is the press release from the CFPB:  https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-sues-for-profit-college-chain-itt-for-predatory-lending/

 

ITT at that point was entirely ****ed, so they declared bankruptcy.  

 

Then, on the basis of the original suit, a class action lawsuit was filed on behalf of all the students, and the result was that ITT was not allowed to collect the outstanding debt issued by the Department of Education.  Here is a summary:  https://buckleysandler.com/blog/2018-05-31/court-orders-department-education-cease-collection-efforts-student-loans-used-defunct-profit-school

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

oh I have some. Security+ certified in my very early 20s, while working for a huge gov't contract at I believe one of, if not the largest (at the time) data centers in the US. 

But I am very rusty in it now, I'll admit. But one of the industries I work with a lot now is tech. Lots of block chain companies as we speak. 

 

oh and what I would do in the situation of the article : 

 

if I was HR - I'd of documented any and all conversations the employee had with me and ensure they signed off on it.

if I was the employee - I'd of document any and all conversations I had with any managers or HR and ensure it was sent via email for later

If I was the employee's co-worker - I'd advise them to go to the many resources and to document everything.

 

I feel you. 

 

Certs are a gift and a curse as some won't even talk to you unless you have one like say Security+ but still people are on their own studying for them (most of my certs and all of my re-certifications we're out of pocket, full price for supplies and the voucher).  ECPI drops the prices considerably, I believe if the industry needs to push feds to allow FAFSA for bootcamps to help with the skills gap higher ups in these SANS newsletters keep pulling their hair out about.  It's really backwards the huge demand, huge number of people that can get in, and the amount of frustration with a lot of the people that do get in not having the necessary training employers really need.  That's just from my own experience and talking with other HR, Recruiters, and Managers in the field as well.

 

Let's put it this way, everyone has their strength here, that's what makes this conversation so capable of being productive and informative.  

 

6 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Perhaps you missed it in my previous posts. What is outline in the article (if true) is 100% not ok, inexcusable, and reprehensible. I hope it is fully investigated and if true the employees are paid  BANK and the employeers, HR, Managers, are never allowed to find employment where they supervise others ever again. 

It is stories like this that are why I am so passionate about my job, and helping those not educated in their rights - know them. 

 

I've many times helped complete strangers via forums and fb groups draft letters to their employers or agencies as needed. As well as given advice on what the rules were and were not. 

 

I didn't miss this at all, none of us did.  I believe I called you out on your empathy towards specific situations, but I never called you heartless.  We actually knew that before you started posting here.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I didn't miss this at all, none of us did.  I believe I called you out on your empathy towards specific situations, but I never called you heartless.  We actually knew that before you started posting here.

em·pa·thy

/ˈempəTHē/

noun

 

1. the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

    

   I believe I have more then explained that I have empathy for others. There's a difference between what I believe is the root cause of an issue and how I would treat someone in the situation that needed help. When you are presented a problem and expected to come up with a solution, the process to do so - and the outcome may be very ugly. In no way represents how someone with that problem should be treated. 
   
   I was diagnosing & hypothesis a cure, not providing care. Very different philosophies. 

    

    

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

This is correct.  What happened was the CFPB filled a complaint against them accusing them of predatory student lending (i.e., exactly what you've described).  Here is the press release from the CFPB:  https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-sues-for-profit-college-chain-itt-for-predatory-lending/

 

ITT at that point was entirely ****ed, so they declared bankruptcy.  

 

Then, on the basis of the original suit, a class action lawsuit was filed on behalf of all the students, and the result was that ITT was not allowed to collect the outstanding debt issued by the Department of Education.  Here is a summary:  https://buckleysandler.com/blog/2018-05-31/court-orders-department-education-cease-collection-efforts-student-loans-used-defunct-profit-school

 

Yep, there was an article I saw the other day on the latest progress on this, including the killing of ITT's ability even try to come after that Temporary Credit crap.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2018/11/28/itt-tech-students-score-victory-bankruptcy-settlement/?utm_term=.16e6076948ea

 

I had about $3k in extra to "cover expenses" that was directly to the school and not subject to collections.  They were using it to force people to pay money to get their transcripts after graduation, I got the version I could use to go to another school after they folder and ITT directed me to Parchment where I got the physical copies.

 

The infuriating thing about this is we need technical schools that can pop out IT Specialist in two years and Cybersecurity Specialists in 4, like accessible, hands on education that wastes as little time with non-industry classes as possible.  Obama was nuking them left and right because so many of them were corrupt AF.  ECPI is an example of what that could look like, especially now that it has University status and NSA signing off on their programs.  Though it, too, in my opinion is more expensive then it should be and has some pretty glaring holes (there is a serious amount of turnover at the financial aid department at my school, they were messing it up left and right).

[TheGreatBuzz]

So can we get back to talking about how women just get pregnant so they don't have to lift heavy things but get paid for it?