Renegade7 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 I'm trying to look around what our options are, and need ya'lls help to confirm it. I'm done with the Alex Smith experiment, this isn't the thread to discuss if we should, its a thread to talk about if we can. So I'm going to post some stuff and need help to confirm its accurate. So from what I remember, the contract was made in a way to be able to get out after 3 years. My question is to anyone that may better understand it then me, what is it meant about the 2020 salary being guaranteed if he's not released within 5 days of the start of 2019 league year? Will the dead cap still be $20 million next year even if we cut him? Are we really stuck with this guy on the roster until after the 2020 season, or is there some way out before then? I can't stop ya'll from debating on if we should, but the reason I'm not taking a full stance yet or making this thread yet is because I don't know if we can. At this rate, I don't expect us to be able to get out until after 2020, and should get out of the contract when we get to that point if we can't get out earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 This is depressing. Instead of paying a proven QB ~$29 million a year for 3 years, we are paying this cluster**** ~$24 million for 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Springfield said: This is depressing. Instead of paying a proven QB ~$29 million a year for 3 years, we are paying this cluster**** ~$24 million for 5. Because our FO are a bunch of ****ing morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I'My question is to anyone that may better understand it then me, what is it meant about the 2020 salary being guaranteed if he's not released within 5 days of the start of 2019 league year? Will the dead cap still be $20 million next year even if we cut him? Are we really stuck with this guy on the roster until after the 2020 season, or is there some way out before then? I saw somewhere that they can get out of the 2020-2022 part of the contact by releasing him within 5 days of the 2019 league year but would have to eat the 2019 year/cap hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 The dead cap would be $42M pre-June 1 and $21.75M post-June 1 and then we will get hit with another $20M in dead cap in 2020, a trade is the best way out, even if we get nothing more than cap relief out of it. I had no problem with the FO moving on from Kirk but they made a bad situation worse by doubling down and paying Alex all this money. The problem with all this is that nobody has the balls to admit they were wrong and cut bait this early, and maybe that wouldn't be a good decision but my biggest worry about this team was losing opportunities to win games because we are so limited on offense. I would rather have Bradford or Colt in there over Smith and that's not based on today's game, just my overall disappointment over the 8 games we've played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 Just now, Skinsinparadise said: I saw somewhere that they can get out of the 2020-2022 part of the contact by releasing him within 5 days of the 2019 league year but would have to eat the 2019 year/cap hit. That's what I think is happening, too, is it going to be $20 million against the cap that we can't use? It would mean losing Preston for sure, but I don't want him back anyway. Maybe we get a comp pick? We should be scouting QBs now. 2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: The dead cap would be $42M pre-June 1 and $21.75M post-June 1 and then we will get hit with another $20M in dead cap in 2020, a trade is the best way out, even if we get nothing more than cap relief out of it. Think that's the trap to prevent us from letting him go in 2019, $42 million dead cap would cripple us. Alex is straight ruining his trade value, I hadn't even thought of that as an option but glad there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 If they make him a june 1st cut and cut Norman they would come out ahead according to over the cap.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Think that he sucks all you want but they have shown as a team they are behind Alex and won’t be ending that deal anytime soon. What do they like? 1. Doesn’t turn the ball over. Yes he had an INT today but wasn’t his fault, ball shoulda been caught and not bobbled in the air 2. Controls the offense. He’s always been a game manager and they know that what they gotta do to win with him. It’s a success so far for them this year. Formula is simple. Run the ball effectively (they didn’t do that today), play good against the opposing RB (didn’t do that today either), and limit turnovers. There is a historic over 80% chance a team wins in this league when they win the turnover battle (they tied today). Unless Alex starts turning it over a lot they gotta ride with who led them to 5-3. If you done with Alex Smith it’s gonna be a very long year for you. 5-3 is better then every team in the league except for the Rams, the Saints, the Patriots, the Chargers, and the Panthers records. Keep it in perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: The dead cap would be $42M pre-June 1 and $21.75M post-June 1 and then we will get hit with another $20M in dead cap in 2020, a trade is the best way out, even if we get nothing more than cap relief out of it. Who would be stupid enough to trade for Smith at this point? I can't think of a team that bad off? The Jets, Bills, Browns, and Cards all have rookies that have at least shown a little. The Giants have Eli, and are going to be looking for a young player. I don't think John is going to do Jay a favor. Maybe Jacksonville? Are they that stupid? Denver? So, what do we even try and get for him? a 7th? In 2020? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Overthecap.com shows us as being to walk away with a dead money hit of $20.4 M, if we designate him as a post June 1st cut. The issue is, his entire 2020 salary becomes guaranteed the fifth day of the new league year, so the FO would have to decide pretty quickly whether they want to move on from him or not. They can designate two players in March as post-June 1st cuts. The dead cap would match his salary cap number, of $20.4 M. Current Contract Year Age Base Salary (Guaranteed) Bonuses Cap Number Cap % Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (post-June 1) Prorated Roster Workout Other Total $83,500,000 $27,000,000 $0 $500,000 $0 $111,000,000 2018 34 $13,000,000 $13,000,000 $5,400,000 $0 $0 $0 $18,400,000 10.4% $33,400,000 ($15,000,000) 2019 35 $15,000,000 $15,000,000 $5,400,000 $0 $0 $0 $20,400,000 10.7% $20,400,000 $0 2020 36 $16,000,000 $5,400,000 $0 $0 $0 $21,400,000 10.7% $5,400,000 $16,000,000 2021 37 $18,750,000 $5,400,000 $0 $250,000 $0 $24,400,000 -- $5,400,000 $19,000,000 2022 38 $20,750,000 $5,400,000 $0 $250,000 $0 $26,400,000 -- $5,400,000 $21,000,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I'm all for getting out of this contract. Shoot, I'd actually like to see what Colt can do right now in the offense. Smith is awful. STOP TRADING WITH ANDY REID. Someone mentioned this on twitter and it made SO much sense. SHould have held on to the 3rd and Kendall Fuller and just outright signed Teddy Bridgewater. Team HAS to draft a QB to groom in '19. No getting around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, bh32 said: If they make him a june 1st cut and cut Norman they would come out ahead according to over the cap.. Maybe its a good idea to post from that site as well: I'm not sure if I see the "breaking even" with cutting Norman (even though I'm not against it anyway), can you show me what you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, RonArtest15 said: I'm all for getting out of this contract. Shoot, I'd actually like to see what Colt can do right now in the offense. Smith is awful. STOP TRADING WITH ANDY REID. Someone mentioned this on twitter and it made SO much sense. SHould have held on to the 3rd and Kendall Fuller and just outright signed Teddy Bridgewater. Team HAS to draft a QB to groom in '19. No getting around it. This, even if Bridgewater was the same age as Alex. But he's 10 years younger. How stupid are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Morneblade said: Who would be stupid enough to trade for Smith at this point? I can't think of a team that bad off? The Jets, Bills, Browns, and Cards all have rookies that have at least shown a little. The Giants have Eli, and are going to be looking for a young player. I don't think John is going to do Jay a favor. Maybe Jacksonville? Are they that stupid? Denver? So, what do we even try and get for him? a 7th? In 2020? The trade deadline has past this year lol. You guys getting all upset about Alex Smith don’t understand there is fantasy football QBs and there are winning games QBs. Alex is not fantasy relevant but he wins more then loses games and has proven that again this year. You sure as hell won’t say that with Colt McCoy starting lol This was one game, there will be others. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the wins forget the losses. Ride and die with the team results. 5-3 is a great place to be halfway through the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Morneblade said: Who would be stupid enough to trade for Smith at this point? I can't think of a team that bad off? The Jets, Bills, Browns, and Cards all have rookies that have at least shown a little. The Giants have Eli, and are going to be looking for a young player. I don't think John is going to do Jay a favor. Maybe Jacksonville? Are they that stupid? Denver? So, what do we even try and get for him? a 7th? In 2020? Personally, I would just try to get rid of as much cap liability as possible, like you said he's not worth much so not sure we can get someone to take on that contract and give us picks. Alex is like a property in foreclosure, take your 60 cents on the dollar and learn from your mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, bobandweave said: The trade deadline has past this year lol. You guys getting all upset about Alex Smith don’t understand there is fantasy football QBs and there are winning games QBs. Alex is not fantasy relevant but he wins more then loses games and has proven that again this year. You sure as hell won’t say that with Colt McCoy starting lol This was one game, there will be others. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the wins forget the losses. Ride and die with the team results. 5-3 is a great place to be halfway through the season Do you actually trust him to win this team a game with his arm? I sure as hell don't. Team is winning games NOT because of anything Smith is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Monk Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just cut him already. Would be a fun thing to see, and definitely less tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 SIGN BRIDGEWATER IMMEDIATELY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max21 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Jesus people, we are 5-3. We didn’t lose the game today because of Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, RonArtest15 said: Do you actually trust him to win this team a game with his arm? I sure as hell don't. Team is winning games NOT because of anything Smith is doing. Your wrong about that. Been saying this all year and will repeat myself. There are three major reasons for the team turn around this year from last season 1. They are containing the opposing RB better this year then last season 2. They are running the ball better this year then they did last season 3. The QB is not turning the ball over this year like the QB did last season Saying Alex is not responsible for the last point is wrong. To your question that doesn’t matter. The formula for winning with this team is not with the arm of this QB. The formula is limit turnovers, defend the rusher, rush the ball. If they do those things they can and will win. When they don’t do those things they will lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, bobandweave said: The trade deadline has past this year lol. You guys getting all upset about Alex Smith don’t understand there is fantasy football QBs and there are winning games QBs. Alex is not fantasy relevant but he wins more then loses games and has proven that again this year. You sure as hell won’t say that with Colt McCoy starting lol This was one game, there will be others. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Enjoy the wins forget the losses. Ride and die with the team results. 5-3 is a great place to be halfway through the season Alex Smith is not winning any games. He’s simply not losing some. Any time the opponent scores first the game is over. He’s not coming from behind to ACTUALLY win a game. I don’t think we’ve won a game where our opponent scored first this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, max21 said: Jesus people, we are 5-3. We didn’t lose the game today because of Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 Ah, my favorite “you people don’t understand” condescending dung about winning and ball control. The overwhelming majority from all walks (Pro-Kirk, AntiKirk, couldn’t care less about Kirk, Homers, pessimists, you name it) are engaging in discussion about how Alex stinks and finding loopholes to get out of the contract. We’re all dummies and don’t know what we’re seeing. Sure. The best possible option is a trade but I think we’d have to eat some money. What’s most likely to happen, we draft a guy and groom him while Alex starts and sputters the offense halfway through next season and we pay him a lot of money to be a backup for 1.5 seasons and cut bait after 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said: I'm all for getting out of this contract. Shoot, I'd actually like to see what Colt can do right now in the offense. Smith is awful. STOP TRADING WITH ANDY REID. Someone mentioned this on twitter and it made SO much sense. SHould have held on to the 3rd and Kendall Fuller and just outright signed Teddy Bridgewater. Team HAS to draft a QB to groom in '19. No getting around it. Yeah. I think we are stuck with Alex at least through 2020. But I agree with you. They panicked when they knew Cousins was going to leave and made the move. I was actually OK with it when it happened. But the return at this point is embarrassing. And there were serviceable QB's on the market this off season through FA and by trade. You mentioned Bridgewater. But I would have also taken McCarron, Bradford Keenum or even Fitzpatrick over trading away a 3rd rounder and our best young corner. Of course hindsite is 20/20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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