Is National Voter ID Law really that Bad???

[Renegade7]

I have a feeling I'm going to get a lot of crap for this, but I feel kinda insulted as a black man that the reason we shouldn't have Voter ID requirement is because its too hard for us.  This is where we are right now with this:

 

 

  Photo ID required (Strict)

  Photo ID requested (Non-strict)

  Non-photo ID required (Strict)

  Non-photo ID requested (Non-strict)

  No ID required to vote

 

 

So, I've looked around for reasons that we shouldn't do it, and it really comes across as trying to victimize minorities.  This is something I believe we should be able to help find some middle ground on to make a reality.  Not necessarily from a voter fraud standpoint, but from an organizational standpoint in regards to citizenship and voter participation.  I don't think Social Security card should be a piece of paper in 2018, we can do better. Think about it, if everyone does have a ID, now we're talking about interference like having time to vote (even vote early), or transportation issues.

 

I'd like to see more effort in states going out to the public to help get IDs made, like setting up shop in a neighborhood school same way a polling station would, or even going to people's houses to take pictures and mail them the IDs (in Virginia, when you renew your license, you can get it mailed to you).  I think one of the hardest parts is lost documents, and this is where we should be talking about what we can do to help find them or waivers, not boohooing about people picking on them.  We should be throwing out absentee ballots like candy and going to peoples houses to verify their ID and pick it up from them.  Will that demand more resources, sure, but we're capable of that as a superpower that's supposed to be a representative democracy.

 

See, this is where I know people are going to get pissed at me because its obvious the way the GOP wants to implement this is with no attempt to help make sure people have the IDs.  That's wrong, that's not what I'm suggesting.  I'm saying we should do this and find ways to make it work instead of using it to disenfranchise people.  I want to start the conversation because I totally believe we as a country are capable of that.  If ya'll can refrain from losing your minds about what the GOP wants to do and what we should do if we go this route, that would be great.  If you still feel we shouldn't do this, I'd like to see an explanation for why photo id shouldn't be needed for voting or in some states, no ID at all.  Many of you know I'm for stuff like automatic registration to vote, that goes hand in hand with this nationwide policy change.

 

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

There is nothing wrong with more identification to help voters.

 

The problem, as you stated, is that the state’s that want you to have some form of ID  are also closing DMVs/MVAs, and making it expensive and hard to get the ID.

 

Helping people get official government documents is how a functional government should work. Unfortunately, many states and municipalities can’t do it because of lack of funding or won’t do it for nefarious reasoning.

 

But back to your question, we should be encouraging more IDs.

 

Here is an ACLU page against a national ID.

https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-cards

[Renegade7]

@BenningRoadSkin that's where I was hoping many of us would stand on this issue, but it never feels to be presented in this manner when I see it discussed outside of everyday conversation.  I wish the DNC would work towards a compromise instead of treating everyone like a victim or a soulless beast on this issue.  GOP's intent behind it is dead wrong, but in normal practice, it makes total sense.

[bearrock]

I say let's do a strict national ID with high tech security, but government has the onus to make the process super convenient.  We're already doing real ID for driver's license by 2020 I think, so anyone who wants to drive or fly, we can just use that for the voting ID req.  For the 100 year old grandma who won't need a driver's license but still wants to vote, have it be required that government sends out a representative to the person's home to assist in every step of the process.  I mean if the rep has to make 20 trips to go track down that obscure birth record from 100 years ago, have the government do it.  

 

If there are still people who don't apply for id or don't know about the requirement, we can let them vote with provisional ballots.  But appoint court appointed attorneys for provisional ballot hearings if it comes to that.  Hopefully within a few decades at most, we will have all eligible voters have the strict photo ID.

 

Once everyone has a strict photo ID, I'd love to see US implement a free location voting that some European countries have.  Basically, there's polling places all over (even in restaurants).  You can walk into any location with your voter ID and vote electronically.

 

Voting should be secure, but also convenient.

[Redskin4ever]

We should have a law stating you must have a government issued ID to vote.

 

We should also have rules requiring states to help get IDs for the people who don’t have them, making it easier for them to vote. This is where a lot of states have failed and in some states have had ID laws struck down. 

 

This shouldnt be that hard.

[PeterMP]

@Renegade7 If you read the ACLU page, it has nothing to do with voting.  Many on the right actually have the same issues as the ACLU and are against a national ID for reasons related to privacy and government surveillance.

 

(In reality, many businesses are against a national ID because it would make it much harder to claim you hired an illegal using false papers without realizing the person was illegal and open them up to further penalties for hiring illegals.  They don't out and out say that, but any time a national ID comes up, they'll be against it.)

 

Add to it, the GOP doesn't really want to fix an issue in terms illegals voting (which doesn't actually seem to really be an issue), and the result is we'll never see this happen.

[bearrock]

I think we can limit the uses for the national ID to limited circumstances and not allow it for law enforcement purposes without probable cause (although if Kavanaugh gets his way, we may lose fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine).  

 

As for employment verification, e-verify would still be the method because citizens are only a subset of people authorized to work in the US.  

[DogofWar1]

Make it easy and free to obtain them, then sure.  But as Benning mentioned, most of the time we get the requirements with none of the extra help for citizens, and in a lot of instances, it's actually made HARDER (closing DMVs and the like), which just makes the whole thing seem like an exercise in voter suppression.

[tshile]

National voter id and a second special national ID required to purchase liquor, lottery tickets, get into casinos, tobacco, and a few other nonsense vice things where this second id can only be obtained if you’re not behind on your taxes and not collecting government assistance and aren’t behind on child support (and we can add anything else that might suggest financial irresponsibility)

 

[The 12th Commandment]

Let's get on with mainstreaming retinal IDs on the computer and make internet voting a thing. 

 

I just took part in the first mail in ballot election that my local officials tried. I have to admit, the fact it was so easy to fake a ballot was not lost on me.  That, it seems to me, provides ammo to the righties that want strict ID laws and I don't like it.  Perplexed.

[Mooka]

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Will that demand more resources, sure, but we're capable of that as a superpower that's supposed to be a representative democracy.

 

2 hours ago, bearrock said:

I say let's do a strict national ID with high tech security, but government has the onus to make the process super convenient. 

 

1 hour ago, Redskin4ever said:

We should also have rules requiring states to help get IDs for the people who don’t have them, making it easier for them to vote.

 

I'm the GOP of a random state: we'll strictly enforce the ID requirements and say a big **** you to the rest. 

 

I'm the next President Trump: I'll do the same thing. 

[PeterMP]

52 minutes ago, KAOSkins said:

Let's get on with mainstreaming retinal IDs on the computer and make internet voting a thing. 

 

I just took part in the first mail in ballot election that my local officials tried. I have to admit, the fact it was so easy to fake a ballot was not lost on me.  That, it seems to me, provides ammo to the righties that want strict ID laws and I don't like it.  Perplexed.

 

There is no way that I want the government to be able to identify me my by scanning my retina.

[Bang]

Make it part of signing up for Selective Service. We are all supposed to do that at 18, so pack it in and make it so everyone is registered.

Then it's up to them to exercise their right,, but lack of registration is no longer any sort of an excuse for either side for anything.

 

~Bang

[spjunkies]

3 minutes ago, Bang said:

Make it part of signing up for Selective Service. We are all supposed to do that at 18, so pack it in and make it so everyone is registered.

Then it's up to them to exercise their right,, but lack of registration is no longer any sort of an excuse for either side for anything.

 

~Bang

 

What about females?

[Larry]

53 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

There is no way that I want the government to be able to identify me my by scanning my retina.

 

Line from the old RPG, Paranoia:  

 

Security checkpoint - insert retina into slot below. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

National voter id and a second special national ID required to purchase liquor, lottery tickets, get into casinos, tobacco, and a few other nonsense vice things where this second id can only be obtained if you’re not behind on your taxes and not collecting government assistance and aren’t behind on child support (and we can add anything else that might suggest financial irresponsibility)

 

 

That’s some Big Brother **** right there.

[Bang]

16 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

 

What about females?

Never had one, so I thought they registered too?
They should.

 

~Bang

[Bozo the kKklown]

2 hours ago, KAOSkins said:

 

Let's get on with mainstreaming retinal IDs on the computer and make internet voting a thing. 

 

You went too far.

10 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

That’s some Big Brother **** right there.

No to big government except to spy on people and put them on lists and databases.

[tshile]

10 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

That’s some Big Brother **** right there.

 

Yes, people who need government assistance to live, can’t pay their taxes, can’t paid their child support, and otherwise cannot  function on basic levels need the government to excercise control over their decision making in some basic regards. 

 

I’d prefer they just figure out how to function on the most basic of levels but they’ve proven that’s not possible. 

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

There is no way that I want the government to be able to identify me my by scanning my retina.

 

Given the state of things right now, this is a cute sentitment. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

8 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

You went too far.

No to big government except to spy on people and put them on lists and databases.

 

4 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Yes, people who need government assistance to live, can’t pay their taxes, can’t paid their child support, and otherwise cannot  function on basic levels need the government to excercise control over their decision making in some basic regards. 

 

I’d prefer they just figure out how to function on the most basic of levels but they’ve proven that’s not possible. 

 

Tshile is a fascist.

[tshile]

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

 

Tshile is a fascist.

Only in regards to using my money to buy liquor, lottery tickets, getting into casinos or strip clubs, etc

 

I love all of those things and encourage everyone to enjoy them. 

 

Just do it with your money.

 

[c slag]

Why just make ID for drivers and non drivers federal government mandate so you're license is issued by the federal government and we all would have the same United States license plates on our vehicles 

[Renegade7]

5 hours ago, PeterMP said:

@Renegade7 If you read the ACLU page, it has nothing to do with voting.  Many on the right actually have the same issues as the ACLU and are against a national ID for reasons related to privacy and government surveillance.

 

I'm not a fan of paranoia, not when you need a photo id to drive a car in this country.  Why do we even have voting records? Shouldn't they be destroyed after the election results are announced?

 

5 hours ago, PeterMP said:

(In reality, many businesses are against a national ID because it would make it much harder to claim you hired an illegal using false papers without realizing the person was illegal and open them up to further penalties for hiring illegals.  They don't out and out say that, but any time a national ID comes up, they'll be against it.)

 

Add to it, the GOP doesn't really want to fix an issue in terms illegals voting (which doesn't actually seem to really be an issue), and the result is we'll never see this happen.

 

This hypocritical nonsense I'm well aware of. It never ceases to amaze me how ICE can go arrest 100+ people at the same time from a business but nothing for the people that own that business or hired them. 

3 hours ago, tshile said:

National voter id and a second special national ID required to purchase liquor, lottery tickets, get into casinos, tobacco, and a few other nonsense vice things where this second id can only be obtained if you’re not behind on your taxes and not collecting government assistance and aren’t behind on child support (and we can add anything else that might suggest financial irresponsibility)

 

Wait, am I misreading this, you don't want people to be able to get lottery tickets or cigarettes if they are on welfare?  Those two IDs should be combined, I want one ID that covers multiple things, even E-Verify (slid the card, either yes or no, directly connected to the database)

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

Never had one, so I thought they registered too?
They should.

 

~Bang

Totally agree here.  Women have had the door open to them for far more positions in the military now.  Asking for that right to do so should come with required SS registration under the guise of "you asked for being treated equally, well this comes with that"

[Renegade7]

48 minutes ago, c slag said:

Why just make ID for drivers and non drivers federal government mandate so you're license is issued by the federal government and we all would have the same United States license plates on our vehicles 

 

Because States Rights. Seriously, states are more then capable of running their own maintenance of licenses for the people in their state and connectiong that information to each of the other states in a way the federal government can easily search, verify, and confirm fraud.  My perspective on states rights here and in many cases its easier for the federal government to give guidelines and requirements for the states to follow attached to a common platform for verification then federal government to run every DMV in the country.  US is just too big not to decentralize some of its functionality, but we should be playing by the same rules in far more cases then we do.

1 hour ago, tshile said:

Only in regards to using my money to buy liquor, lottery tickets, getting into casinos or strip clubs, etc

 

I love all of those things and encourage everyone to enjoy them. 

 

Just do it with your money.

 

 

How do you seperate what's money made by the person workings and money received via welfare programs?  If you want to argue stuff like SNAP should be limited more in where its accepted I'm right there with you.  I'd go even further and whitelist certain food products to help combat obesity.