Spaceman Spiff Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ny-prosecutors-indict-trump-org-insider-not-trump-sources-say-2021-06-29/ Quote WASHINGTON, June 28 (Reuters) - New York prosecutors investigating former U.S. President Donald Trump's business practices are likely to issue one or more criminal indictments this week – but not against Trump himself, according to people involved in the case. IMO, that's nice that his business practices are getting indicted...but if he's not personally getting indicted, well, that's just not why I'm here. If this revolves around Weisselberg and whatever perks he illegally obtained, my interest on this is pretty non-existent. None of this really matters unless Trump himself somehow winds up behind bars (which won't happen) or if any of this stuff leads to that (again, not happening). Trump appears to be teflon, which is unfortunate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 How does it work when criminal charges are leveled against an organization as opposed to an individual. Headlines say charges are coming against Weisselberg AND the Trump Organization. Who is on the hook for the criminal wrongdoing of the company? I know the Citizens United case concluded corporations are people, but you can't throw a corporation in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dan T. said: How does it work when criminal charges are leveled against an organization as opposed to an individual. Headlines say charges are coming against Weisselberg AND the Trump Organization. Who is on the hook for the criminal wrongdoing of the company? I know the Citizens United case concluded corporations are people, but you can't throw a corporation in jail. https://www.upcounsel.com/can-a-corporation-be-charged-with-a-crime This link has words, lots of them. I didn’t read them, but it may answer your question. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ball Security said: https://www.upcounsel.com/can-a-corporation-be-charged-with-a-crime This link has words, lots of them. I didn’t read them, but it may answer your question. That was indeed helpful. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Unpaid taxes? How much? Did he expense some unallowable items such as lap dances? Or is there something big there? What about the claimed financial fraud regarding building valuations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 The charges were filed against Weisselberg to put pressure on him. Legally, this is like kicking a FG in the first quarter. But…game on.* *I am not a lawyer. I am a car salesman. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said: The charges were filed against Weisselberg to put pressure on him. Legally, this is like kicking a FG in the first quarter. I’d be happy to be proven wrong but I suspect Trump will not face consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 These charges will get him a solid 6 months of probation and a fine. No ones flipping or going to jail over some unpaid taxes on “employee bonuses”. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 40 minutes ago, No Excuses said: These charges will get him a solid 6 months of probation and a fine. No ones flipping or going to jail over some unpaid taxes on “employee bonuses”. Al Capone says hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 10 hours ago, Dan T. said: How does it work when criminal charges are leveled against an organization as opposed to an individual. Headlines say charges are coming against Weisselberg AND the Trump Organization. Who is on the hook for the criminal wrongdoing of the company? I know the Citizens United case concluded corporations are people, but you can't throw a corporation in jail. It doesn’t work. Perdue Pharma plead guilty to a crime… and this allowed the individuals behind creating a literal drug epidemic to walk away free and clean. The only thing they can do is fine companies. Treating corporations like people in criminal cases is bull****. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 I assume they can still keep pressuring him to flip once he's charged, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, mistertim said: I assume they can still keep pressuring him to flip once he's charged, right? My understanding is they can but if he hasn't flipped yet, this probably won't be enough to convince him to now. From what I have heard and read, I actually disagree with the route the government is taking here. It seems to me that a very solid case is being made that things what not be going down this way if not for the fact it has the connections to Trump. Cases such as these, if even brought at all, would be handled civilly instead of criminally. I'm all for going after Trump, is organization, and his cronies for crimes they have committed. But it should not be getting special treatment because of politics. Thats just me though. I'm sure I'll get roasted for this. Edited July 1, 2021 by TheGreatBuzz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Yea, don't think this is a big deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Al Capone says hi. This is like tickling Al Capone. Maybe they’ll get Trump et al for larger tax evasion and financial fraud but not paying taxes on a company car ain’t it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 27 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: But it should not be getting special treatment because of politics. Thats just me though. I'm sure I'll get roasted for this. - Trump University was a scam. - The Trump Foundation basically became a slush fund for Trump's personal and political benefit and was ordered to shut down. - Trump conspired to help his father's business skirt taxes by setting up a sham corporation that padded invoices for his real estate expenses. It's not politics when you're corrupt as a mother****er. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Dan T. said: - Trump University was a scam. - The Trump Foundation basically became a slush fund for Trump's personal and political benefit and was ordered to shut down. - Trump conspired to help his father's business skirt taxes by setting up a sham corporation that padded invoices for his real estate expenses. It's not politics when you're corrupt as a mother****er. My understanding is these charges don't address any of these items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: My understanding is these charges don't address any of these items. Two of those three have already been adjudicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dan T. said: Two of those three have already been adjudicated. Okay. I was specifically talking about this case with the indictments yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 35 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Okay. I was specifically talking about this case with the indictments yesterday. And my point is that just because a person with a long history of corruption and criminal conduct decides to get into politics doesn't all of a sudden inoculate him from criminal investigation because prosecutors don't want to that investigation to be viewed as "political." It's the other side of the coin you brought up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: My understanding is they can but if he hasn't flipped yet, this probably won't be enough to convince him to now. From what I have heard and read, I actually disagree with the route the government is taking here. It seems to me that a very solid case is being made that things what not be going down this way if not for the fact it has the connections to Trump. Cases such as these, if even brought at all, would be handled civilly instead of criminally. I'm all for going after Trump, is organization, and his cronies for crimes they have committed. But it should not be getting special treatment because of politics. Thats just me though. I'm sure I'll get roasted for this. Agree that Trump and his organization should not be getting special treatment (better or worse) because of politics. I don't think they necessarily are in this matter. The government has the burden to prove their claims beyond a reasonable doubt. If the Trump organization committed crimes, and the government can prove it, then they should bring the case and punish them, just like they should in all cases. I think the only impact politics has is that Trump's entry into politics garnered him a whole lot of attention. Well, if you are committing crimes, maybe don't draw so much attention. Turns out criminals are often dummies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 13 hours ago, Corcaigh said: I’d be happy to be proven wrong but I suspect Trump will not face consequences. One thing I heard that makes it so difficult to get to Trump is that he never used email. And he never writes anything down. Whether that's because he's got the mindset of a mob boss covering his tracks or that he's ****ing illiterate is beside the point. Everything is verbal with him so there's little paper trail. That's why they need the cooperation of Trump Organization cronies to get to the Big (in more ways than one) Guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dan T. said: One thing I heard that makes it so difficult to get to Trump is that he never used email. And he never writes anything down. Whether that's because he's got the mindset of a mob boss covering his tracks or that he's ****ing illiterate is beside the point. Everything is verbal with him so there's little paper trail. That's why they need the cooperation of Trump Organization cronies to get to the Big (in more ways than one) Guy. I’ve read speculation (I think from Mary Trump, but maybe his biographer too) that DJT would let his children take the fall to save himself. But I’m wondering if the reverse is true. If his three wonderkids, who do leave paper trails, would implicate daddy to save themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Why a gag order against Trump would be a good idea Quote (CNN) CNN and other news organizations have reported, citing people familiar with the matter, that a Manhattan grand jury indicted the Trump Organization and its Chief Financial Officer, Allen Weisselberg, on Wednesday. It's now a safe bet to expect former President Donald Trump to go on his usual rampage -- an all-out verbal assault on prosecutors, judges and the court in his desperate attempt to discredit the case. Make no mistake about it, Shakespeare was right when he wrote, "What's past is prologue." One must have been sleeping through the Trump presidency not to expect that a wounded Trump will do and say anything to prejudice the fair administration of justice. Now, the district attorney should ask the judge at the arraignment to impose a strict gag order restraining Trump, the Trump family, prosecutors, defense attorneys and all witnesses from making any public statements intended to prevent a fair trial, free of prejudice. A violation of a gag order is the crime of contempt of a court order with a potential one year in jail. Holy ****, can you imagine how badly Trump would rage out if he were literally forbidden by law from ****ing and moaning? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 55 minutes ago, Dan T. said: One thing I heard that makes it so difficult to get to Trump is that he never used email. And he never writes anything down. Whether that's because he's got the mindset of a mob boss covering his tracks or that he's ****ing illiterate is beside the point. Everything is verbal with him so there's little paper trail. That's why they need the cooperation of Trump Organization cronies to get to the Big (in more ways than one) Guy. 49 minutes ago, Ball Security said: I’ve read speculation (I think from Mary Trump, but maybe his biographer too) that DJT would let his children take the fall to save himself. But I’m wondering if the reverse is true. If his three wonderkids, who do leave paper trails, would implicate daddy to save themselves. Oh yeah? Nobody ever saw him or knew anybody that worked directly for him....to hear you people tell it, anybody could have worked for him. You never knew. That was his power. The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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