Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

[NeverSurrender]

On 8/11/2019 at 9:59 PM, RandyHolt said:

"According to Football Outsiders, Manusky’s defense in 2018 led the league in two- or three-man pass rushes, utilizing it 23.5 percent of the time, nearly five percentage points higher than second-place Denver (18.7 percent)"

 

Expect more bend don't break until our offense catches fire.   No Trent + Colt - WR1 = slow games down.

Im very ok with this.  By the way, Keenum looks very relaxed in this offense.  Im thinking they will be tough to beat so long as we minimize turnovers.  Im hype to see AP run all over people again this year. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Brutal for the Chargers... and makes me more grateful we drafted Payne instead.

 

 

[PartyPosse]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:10 AM, XxSpearheadxX said:

I have it on good authority that after being informed he was released last tuesday Mason Foster has finally made it to the exit of redskins park and is another day or two from getting to his car. 

 

I'll keep you guys updated on any further developments. 

Any update? I heard he's closing in on said car but lost his assignment so he's just wandering around the parking lot with his hands up.

[HigSkin]

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

a lotta nicknames been floatin around for Matty I...

 

how about "The Greek Freak" ?

[PartyPosse]

14 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

a lotta nicknames been floatin around for Matty I...

 

how about "The Greek Freak" ?

That just makes it sound like he's way too into anal

[Vanguard]

I don’t want people to give up on Sweat even if he has a poor rookie year.  The talent is there.

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

I don’t want people to give up on Sweat even if he has a poor rookie year.  The talent is there.

I'm curious why you would think he could have a poor rookie season.  I didn't watch him in college so I'm just now becoming familiar with him and I did note in the gameday thread I watched him try to bull rush guys 50 lbs heavier than him, he got caught on blocks frequently expect for that one rush to the outside where he ran by the QB.

 

I just chalked it up to it being his first game but he was definitely underwhelming, is he raw?  What does he need to do to utilize that size and speed?

[Vanguard]

2 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

I'm curious why you would think he could have a poor rookie season.  I didn't watch him in college so I'm just now becoming familiar with him and I did note in the gameday thread I watched him try to bull rush guys 50 lbs heavier than him, he got caught on blocks frequently expect for that one rush to the outside where he ran by the QB.

 

I just chalked it up to it being his first game but he was definitely underwhelming, is he raw?  What does he need to do to utilize that size and speed?

 

I mainly brought it up because of all the prompt, sweeping conclusions, people make about players in the game day threads based on just a few plays.  I think he needs to develop some more moves really, that’s all.

 

Be more clever at the point of attack.

[volsmet]

On 8/16/2019 at 6:12 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

Brutal for the Chargers... and makes me more grateful we drafted Payne instead.

 

 

 

More grateful? So you were already grateful that we picked a lesser player? Interesting. 

[HTTRDynasty]

18 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

More grateful? So you were already grateful that we picked a lesser player? Interesting. 

 

A lesser player at the moment, sure, but also one without half the injury concerns James has. I could easily envision an injury-prone career for James (based on his college injuries as well), while I don’t believe Payne will have those concerns to anywhere near that extent. Could obviously be wrong, but I’ll take Payne and be grateful for it. 

[Going Commando]

Allen and Payne are an unbelievably good tandem in the tackle box.  Watching those pursuit plays is fun, but the way they beat up blockers between the tackles is special.  On that play where Allen took the LG #60's head off to make that awesome stuff at the line, check out what happens to Payne.  He takes a hard double while the center has him wrapped up, and even loses his footing, but his balance through contact is so good and he's got such good feet that he anchors and holds the PoA.  He doesn't have length, but he still anchors against length because his contact balance is flat our special.  He is unbelievably strong.

 

Ioannidis on the weakside of these plays is something special too.  I don't like him as much at the PoA, but he's a dominant wrecking ball in his ability to disrupt the blocking scheme when all he's got to deal with is a tackle trying to seal him or ride him outside.  He just takes them for a ride to the ball.  And the RG has no hope of recovering to him in time.

 

These three guys would be so much lesser without each other, but together, they are absolutely dominant.  I think they are the league's most talented three man line.  They are the proof to Redskins fans that you should stack up talent on the inside of your defensive line.  The synergistic benefit of doing so is huge.

[HardcoreZorn]

21 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Allen and Payne are an unbelievably good tandem in the tackle box.  Watching those pursuit plays is fun, but the way they beat up blockers between the tackles is special.  On that play where Allen took the LG #60's head off to make that awesome stuff at the line, check out what happens to Payne.  He takes a hard double while the center has him wrapped up, and even loses his footing, but his balance through contact is so good and he's got such good feet that he anchors and holds the PoA.  He doesn't have length, but he still anchors against length because his contact balance is flat our special.  He is unbelievably strong.

 

Ioannidis on the weakside of these plays is something special too.  I don't like him as much at the PoA, but he's a dominant wrecking ball in his ability to disrupt the blocking scheme when all he's got to deal with is a tackle trying to seal him or ride him outside.  He just takes them for a ride to the ball.  And the RG has no hope of recovering to him in time.

 

These three guys would be so much lesser without each other, but together, they are absolutely dominant.  I think they are the league's most talented three man line.  They are the proof to Redskins fans that you should stack up talent on the inside of your defensive line.  The synergistic benefit of doing so is huge.

 

Great post. And it’s going to make the job of those behind them so much easier. It’s why I’m still cautiously optimistic we can compete (for playoffs) this year even with all of the questions on offense. The D should be keeping us in most any game.

[wit33]

Dropping 8 and still getting home sounds great to me. 

 

These dudes represent my largest piece of pie hope for Skins making the post season. Meaning, if they become elite, the Skins will have a chance in 12-14 games. 

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, wit33 said:

These dudes represent my largest piece of pie hope for Skins making the post season. Meaning, if they become elite, the Skins will have a chance in 12-14 games.  

 

The offense sucks way too much for this team to be truly good, but I could see 10 wins as a ceiling if the defense stays healthy and plays to their potential.  I could also see a four win floor if they get banged up.

 

This front seven is so freaking stacked.  The three man line is a coup, and the edge rotation is also very strong.  The stack linebackers should have it pretty good and I think Cole Holcomb has the ability to be a good starter as a rookie. 

 

And there is enough talent in the secondary to hold up their end of the bargain and maybe even be dynamic if Landon Collins and Josh Norman stay healthy.  This is an aggressive, swaggering defense.  They are championship caliber, and probably only a couple of ILBs and corners away from being top tier in the NFL.  It's a shame that the offense has fallen apart just as these guys came together.

[Master Blaster]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

These three guys would be so much lesser without each other, but together, they are absolutely dominant.  I think they are the league's most talented three man line.  They are the proof to Redskins fans that you should stack up talent on the inside of your defensive line.  The synergistic benefit of doing so is huge.

 

This also helps explain why Settle looks so much better playing with 2/3 of these guys as well.  Individually they are all good/great, but together they become exceptional.

[wit33]

18 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The offense sucks way too much for this team to be truly good, but I could see 10 wins as a ceiling if the defense stays healthy and plays to their potential.  I could also see a four win floor if they get banged up.

 

Agreed.

 

Difficult to forecast anything related to postseason chances with current QB situation. 

 

If they can muster up a consistent run game each week, they’ll have a chance. Buuut, it’s my opinion that a conventional run game approach is outdated and will not provide consistency required to have + impact game and game out. Outdated from the sense that it cannot exist on its own. 

 

18 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This front seven is so freaking stacked.  The three man line is a coup, and the edge rotation is also very strong.  The stack linebackers should have it pretty good and I think Cole Holcomb has the ability to be a good starter as a rookie. 

 

Excited to see Holcomb and what role he works himself into. Difficult to project the ILBs due to the myriad of variables related to what make a guy good or not (above my head and how I choose to spend my fandom). 

 

I like that the team team has finally transitioned to guys who have sideline to sideline and coverage ability, at least from a measurable perspective. 

 

Thoughts on Josh Harvey Clemons? They’ve invested a lot of time in this dude, would be cool to see him pop this year.  

 

18 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

And there is enough talent in the secondary to hold up their end of the bargain and maybe even be dynamic if Landon Collins and Josh Norman stay healthy.  This is an aggressive, swaggering defense.  They are championship caliber, and probably only a couple of ILBs and corners away from being top tier in the NFL.  It's a shame that the offense has fallen apart just as these guys came together.

 

Yes, the secondary has a lot to prove (I like that for this unit), but may be the most undervalued unit as we sit here today. Nicholson and Dunbar playing provide elite speed and Norman/Collins provide playmaking and elite tackling at their respective positions. Would be amazing to squeeze out an elite year from Norman. Let Dunbar run with the young speed guys and Norman compete with the elite/physical guys. 

 

Thoughts on Dunbar heading into season?

[Warhead36]

I don't see a championship caliber D just yet. Too many unknowns at ILB and DB beyond Norman.

[Vanguard]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't see a championship caliber D just yet. Too many unknowns at ILB and DB beyond Norman.

 

Dunbar has been playing better than Norman.  Norman may be slightly better at creating turnovers.  But you’re selling Dunbar short.

[RandyHolt]

Listening to Sheehan preaching using the defense aggressively.... man oh man I wish Jay would make Manusky play that way.   We have the horses on defense to dictate and we all know it.  We are thin at ILB sure but our DL should go a long ways to helping mitigate that.

 

Since Haslet left, it just seems like ALL the defenses we see are always swarming our offense, yet our defense is NEVER swarming any offense we face.

 

Yep I am prepared for another year of bend don't break. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I think, at least I hope so from what I've inferred from training camp quotes and the like, is that the coaches know of Bostic and SDH's limitations in coverage so one of them will be sent on blitzes frequently.

 

Is Holcomb actually in the mix for a starting role?  Last I heard both he and Bostic were practicing only at the Mike spot.

 

I think figuring out ways to get Allen, Payne, and Ioannidis on the field at the same time is key.  We can use only one traditional Edge guy with them?

 

We have enough talent on the DL that we could maybe go away from traditional Nickel.  The 2 Edge, 2 IDL, 2 ILB, and 5 DB set.

 

Montae gives us wiggle room here, he's one of the few guys in the league who can actually play Single High.  So what about a 2 Edge, 3 IDL, 1 ILB, and have Landon Collins rotate down into the box.  The front 5 should be good enough to still prevent your average O-Line from making holes in the run game.

 

We need to find ways to get our best talent on the field.

[RandyHolt]

Great post drunk zebra

 

You touched on one concept I love. If a guy sucks at a certain thing, don't ask him to do it! As you point out, our ILBs in coverage. Blitz them, instead.

 

It was like when we had Madieu Williams. He sucked away from the LOS. Late in that year Haslett moved him up which prevented him from being exposed. Used him to his strengths (aggressiveness) and it paid instant dividends. Our D did great in that run up to the playoffs and it started with stop trying to use players to their weaknesses.

 

One that always irks me, seeing Kerrigan and our pass rush studs, in pass coverage.  That is an easy read for the QB since we aren't rushing the guys that bring the heat. Pass to the guy nearest to Kerrigan.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

One that always irks me, seeing Kerrigan and our pass rush studs, in pass coverage.  That is an easy read for the QB since we aren't rushing the guys that bring the heat. Pass to the guy nearest to Kerrigan.

 

Sometimes that stuff works well.  But the guy that's dropping is only supposed to be "in coverage" for a second to muck up the throwing lane to the "hot" receiver.  Then someone else takes over that guy (say a safety rotating down).  Kerrigan dropping is unexpected by the O-line, they had a blocker accounting for him, so the o-line's protection should be ill-suited for the blitz.  Say the QB thinks the Nickel corner is going to blitz, he might signal the Slot WR he's the "hot" route, and tell the RB to shift and pick up the Nickel corner if he comes.  Well the corner does come, but Kerrigan mucks up the throwing lane, giving enough time for a safety to rotate down.  Meanwhile, the RB and the OT are both on the Edge ready to block a stupid Nickel Corner, so the RB can't help pick up pressure coming from the interior.

 

I mean, at least in theory, stuff like that makes sense to me.  But stuff like that relies on you knowing they'll shift protection a certain way, or the RB will handle the blitz outside-in first instead of inside-out.  When we do a blitz like that, and the blitzers can't reach the QB, I feel like that's poor gameplanning.  Or coaching, or something.

 

That said, too often you're right, there's our Edge rusher trying to stay with a RB on a wheel route...whoops, they got burnt.  I'm shocked, who could have seen that coming.

 

I also see some zone fire blitzes where an IDL or Edge guy drops into zone...but there's nobody near them.  They aren't getting in the way of any "hot" throwing lane.  So did they screw up in gameplanning and not realize that teams "hot" route isn't a quick slant, but rather a quick hitch or something else?

[RandyHolt]

I haven't heard or read any discussions on who are the surprises on D.  Pumping up our feeble offense is getting old.

 

I hardly think our front 7 is etched in stone.  Settle got injured. Are we going to learn JoJo Wicker and Cassanova have landed on our 53? Brantley doesn't get any discussion but he got into 7 games last year - ok so he only had 1 tackle.

 

ILBs seem to be stuck in our crack MASH ward  - good luck getting outta there without Hawkeye and Trapper.  SDH is doubtful.  JHC has a knee AND concussion? FML.  Does that open an A gap for Marquis Flowers?  I know we all want Cole but he may be behind Bostic for snaps.

 

 

[JaxJoe]

On 8/20/2019 at 9:10 AM, RandyHolt said:

One that always irks me, seeing Kerrigan and our pass rush studs, in pass coverage.  That is an easy read for the QB since we aren't rushing the guys that bring the heat. Pass to the guy nearest to Kerrigan.

Hopefully the addition of Landon Collins will hold down the strong-side passing downs near the line. Then Montez Sweat on the other side, a 260lb 4.4 forty freak of nature can easily cover a back whether in the flat or on a wheel route. 

 

On on another note, and in agreement with you, is how will Manusky adapt to these two new pieces. Last season, good QBs toasted us. My thoughts watching the games was that it seemed Manusky was too fearful of a good QB so he had 7-8 guys peddling backwards in zone. Well, I think you’re just doing a QB a favor as they can pick us apart as long as they have time to throw.

 

What I’d like to see different this season is more blitzing, but disguised like Alabama does. It could be a LB, a safety, or a corner. The concept is so simple, but you need excellent athletes who can perform other players’ roles while they are blitzing. I think the word on the street should be that any QB is going to get punished when playing the Redskins. I want those opposing QBs to be in absolute fear. 

 

https://giphy.com/gifs/tackle-N6ASdNFfKVr6E