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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000949598/article/nfc-preseason-grades-week-2-josh-rosen-daron-payne-excel

 

Washington Redskins: Daron Payne, DT. The 'Skins' defensive line might wreck shop this season with an Alabama duo (Jonathan Allenand Payne) on the interior. Payne is already making his presence felt as a disruptive force at the point of attack, as evidenced by his solid performance against the Jets. The rookie defender notched a sack and provided consistent pressure in the A-gaps as a destructive playmaker against the run and pass

 

 

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18 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Less about position matchup and more about the (and i know this is going to be a unpopular comment) mismatch and issues Kerrigan has in run defense.  Plenty of times I've seen Kerrigan get carried up-field and run 7 yards into the backfield, opening a gaping hole through that side of the defense.  I would argue that last year, even when Allen was healthy, the best 'line' we could put out there was with Kerrigan and Smith in the dirt, and Ioannidis on the interior.  That McGee / McClain / Hood were not good enough to give us the flexibility to line it up with them on the interior techinques.  Now that we have Payne / Settle that can play inside, we'll likely see Allen / Ioannidis at the 'DE' spot more frequently.  

 

Yeah but if Kerrigan was the problem with run defense they tended to sub him at times when they went 3-4 but not with another lineman but an OLB.  I doubt its because for example they thought Galette was a better run stopper than J. Allen or McClain, etc.  My point is I am gathering Tomsula's-Manusky's philosophy is to keep the threat of the pass rush on these downs.  

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20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah but if Kerrigan was the problem with run defense they tended to sub him at times when they went 3-4 but not with another lineman but an OLB.  I doubt its because for example they thought Galette was a better run stopper than J. Allen or McClain, etc.  My point is I am gathering Tomsula's-Manusky's philosophy is to keep the threat of the pass rush on these downs.  

 

very likely... I guess my point was that the rotations we see this season may be very different than what we saw last season, by virtue of added talent.  That what we saw last season was a grasp at putting the best defenders on the field, even if slightly out of position.  I feel like we won't see a lot of the same alignments we saw last year because we have better pieces in place.  

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4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

very likely... I guess my point was that the rotations we see this season may be very different than what we saw last season, by virtue of added talent.  That what we saw last season was a grasp at putting the best defenders on the field, even if slightly out of position.  I feel like we won't see a lot of the same alignments we saw last year because we have better pieces in place.  

 

Bring on the versatile fun! Just have to hope that while the plan is to confuse the opponent, we don't end up confusing our own assignments. : /  

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The true test on wether this is the best front we’ve had in a long while is if they can consistently stop the run. Getting to the passer hasn’t been our Achilles heel at all. Stopping the run has. When they shut that down, even from our nickel package especially, then put me down for best defensive front in years. Maybe since our Cornelius Griffin days, that one year he was playing bonkers. 

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I wouldn't mind bringing Galette back if he's not looking for a long term deal, I'd do a 2-year. Anderson and McPhee have been playing poorly and aren't giving me any sense of optimism for when they rotate in or if Kerrigan/Smith go down. I was hearing good things in camp about Robertson and thought that he may be a legitimate insurance policy, but he didn't shine like I had hoped.

 

Tbh, if Anderson wasn't a 2nd round pick, he would be one of my first cuts. 

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2 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

The true test on wether this is the best front we’ve had in a long while is if they can consistently stop the run. Getting to the passer hasn’t been our Achilles heel at all. Stopping the run has. When they shut that down, even from our nickel package especially, then put me down for best defensive front in years. Maybe since our Cornelius Griffin days, that one year he was playing bonkers. 

I agree. We've been sitting there knowing a run was coming and not being able to stop it for years. 

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I agree with others, On paper its looking good, but I don't like to judge based on vanilla preseason opposition either.   But would we agree that the last time we had a front this strong was during Gibb's Second tenure under Gregg Williams?

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Just now, CTskin said:

I wouldn't mind bringing Galette back if he's not looking for a long term deal, I'd do a 2-year. Anderson and McPhee have been playing poorly and aren't giving me any sense of optimism for when they rotate in or if Kerrigan/Smith go down. I was hearing good things in camp about Robertson and thought that he may be a legitimate insurance policy, but he didn't shine like I had hoped.

 

Tbh, if Anderson wasn't a 2nd round pick, he would be one of my first cuts. 

He's looked very good against the run from what's been posted. 

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Just now, Koolblue13 said:

He's looked very good against the run from what's been posted. 

 

I saw it a bit last year, but haven't see it at all so far this pre-season. He played late into the Jets game and barely held his own against their scrubs.

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1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

very likely... I guess my point was that the rotations we see this season may be very different than what we saw last season, by virtue of added talent.  That what we saw last season was a grasp at putting the best defenders on the field, even if slightly out of position.  I feel like we won't see a lot of the same alignments we saw last year because we have better pieces in place.  

 

I think so, too.  Got my doubts though that one our big D lineman who is a traditional DT -- plays DE in the 4-2 or OLB in the 3-4 at times -- purely based on what I saw last year which is they if anything push it on the pass rush not the run stopping including on downs where you are expecting the run.  But will see.

 

If he's healthy my pick for a dark horse interesting chess piece is McPhee.  He's big enough to play inside.  And IMO he's the type you want playing OLB at 3-4 on obvious run downs because he's stout enough to stop the run but also has enough agility to provide some pass rush off the edge.  The problem with playing IMO a DT at DE in the 4-2 or OLB in the 3-4 is they typically have to have some agility and speed to get by a tackle on the outside -- the typical DT doesn't have the athleticism to do that.  But inside is a different story -- its power, strong hands, etc. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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8 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

I saw it a bit last year, but haven't see it at all so far this pre-season. He played late into the Jets game and barely held his own against their scrubs.

 

 

Some of the replays i've seen that show his value is not actually contacting the ball carrier, but blowing up lead blocking.  There were a few instances where he plugged a hole and took on a lead blocker and stood him up... thus allowing someone else to get in and make a play.  Now I can't say with any certainty that he does this ALL the time, but if thats what he's been focusing on, it may be why he's not appearing to flash.  

 

This was vs Balt

 

Set the edge here and the RB cut back.  Not sure if it was a designed but back but he had leverage on the outside

 

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here is this year vs NE

 

If you click on the tweet it brings up multiple plays. 

Edited by OVCChairman
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Love seeing those plays from Anderson, particularly delaying the TE and dropping into coverage (because we already know run D is a strength).  With that all said, I’m not going to be sold until I see some improved/effective pass rushing (compared to last year at least).    

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40 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Love seeing those plays from Anderson, particularly delaying the TE and dropping into coverage (because we already know run D is a strength).  With that all said, I’m not going to be sold until I see some improved/effective pass rushing (compared to last year at least).    

 

 

I don't think we'll see it though.  Kerrigan / Smith are our pass rushers... Anderson (according to those clips) was used more as a pass coverage OLB when he was involved with passing plays.  I don't know that they'll ask him to rush the passer enough for us to see a tangible improvement.  

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1 hour ago, CTskin said:

 

I saw it a bit last year, but haven't see it at all so far this pre-season. He played late into the Jets game and barely held his own against their scrubs.

 

FWIW Anderson was our second best defensive player on the day according to PFF.

 

Edit: Even though it shows a picture of a Pats player it should still be refering to the Jets game as it says last night and was posted on August 17.

Edited by Panninho

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Anderson is that guy every D needs. Won't show up on the stat sheet but does all the little dirty things to make life easier on everyone else.

 

Unfortunately because he's not a pass rusher, his role is kinda limited in a 3-4. I think once Kerrigan's contract gets too expensive in a year or two we really should flip to 4-3 full time. DL of Smith, Allen, Payne, and Ion. LBs consisting of Brown, Foster, and Anderson.

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@Panninho  @OVCChairman Good stuff guys, thank you. That gives me a bit more optimism. He was good vs the run last year and by those clips and ratings he has played much better than what I thought I saw. Before making any more bold comments in the future, I'll be sure to review in a bit more depth.

 

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If Ryan Anderson finds a way to be valuable in a rotation, I'm all for it.  That's better than last year.  So here's a question, what's more useful to our team (and/or any average team I suppose):

 

Junior Galette, + pass rusher, - run defender

Ryan Anderson, + run defender, - pass rusher

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13 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

If Ryan Anderson finds a way to be valuable in a rotation, I'm all for it.  That's better than last year.  So here's a question, what's more useful to our team (and/or any average team I suppose):

 

Junior Galette, + pass rusher, - run defender

Ryan Anderson, + run defender, - pass rusher

I think, sort of to OVC’s point above, Anderson makes a better strong side OLB than Galette, while Galette is a better matchup on the left (defensive right).  

 

Which has gotten me thinking that we keep 5 OLBs with McPhee interchangeable and Robertson the pass rushing backup to Smith.  Of course, this is predicated on Robertson living up to Gruden’s TC hype (as a pass rusher).  

 

Side note: although Anderson is limited as an OLB (if they don’t dig his pass rushing ability), I could see him taking over Brown’s responsibilities at times when Brown is sent on a blitz.  I think that sort of uses/maximizes both backers’ strengths.  

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22 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

If Ryan Anderson finds a way to be valuable in a rotation, I'm all for it.  That's better than last year.  So here's a question, what's more useful to our team (and/or any average team I suppose):

 

Junior Galette, + pass rusher, - run defender

Ryan Anderson, + run defender, - pass rusher

We've got pass rushers in our front 7. We do very well rushing the passer. We blow against the run. 

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1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

We've got pass rushers in our front 7. We do very well rushing the passer. We blow against the run. 

 

What about assuming a healthy Allen and Payne?  What if our run D is no longer the problem?  Do you play Anderson more snaps hoping for some 3rd and longs, or do you play Galette (hypothetical if we had him again) with the higher chance of disrupting the QB if it's a pass?

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2 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

What about assuming a healthy Allen and Payne?  What if our run D is no longer the problem?  Do you play Anderson more snaps hoping for some 3rd and longs, or do you play Galette (hypothetical if we had him again) with the higher chance of disrupting the QB if it's a pass?

Interestingly enough, I’m sort of wondering the same thing about Ioannidis.  Does the team use him as a straight sub, or do they use him more situationally?  Gonna be interesting to see.  

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2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Interestingly enough, I’m sort of wondering the same thing about Ioannidis.  Does the team use him as a straight sub, or do they use him more situationally?  Gonna be interesting to see.  

 

7 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

What about assuming a healthy Allen and Payne?  What if our run D is no longer the problem?  Do you play Anderson more snaps hoping for some 3rd and longs, or do you play Galette (hypothetical if we had him again) with the higher chance of disrupting the QB if it's a pass?

I wonder the same. If we are down, does Anderson keep them from running us down and out. If we're up, does Iaon and Lanier get more time to attack? 

 

We seem to have better run defenders at LBer and passrushers on the line. It's different, but could work. 

 

Our defense is going to be fun. 

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