The Evil Genius Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 It'd also be helpful if the same teachers and state employees stop electing those asshats into office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said: Gee, I wish ES had a long time poster that is a WV public school teacher or something...... My mom taught high school English in WV for 30 years, and my dad was an elementary school principal. I feel like this strike is slowly opening people's eyes to just how badly the state government has sold out WV to out of state corporate interests over the last 15 years or so (both parties played a role in this). They've cut taxes to the bone. They've ended regulations and have turned the state in a chemical wasteland. They just passed a law that literally allows a gas company to drill your land without your permission if your drug-addicted cousins agree to it. And somehow, they still have no money. I want to see a teacher riot, because I assume it will be very polite riot involving Christmas sweaters. By the way, I am speaking in my official capacity as a Knight of the Golden Horseshoe here. Burn down the capitol, ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said: Gee, I wish ES had a long time poster that is a WV public school teacher or something...... I know right! We could probably get some Major insight if we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 BTW, to clear up confusion, Teachers aren't state employees but do have the majority of their regulations (and salary scale) set by the State. Thus they are dependent on the State legislators for pay raises. Like LKB, I'm the son of a WV school teacher (granted he was also a 29yr Navy Vet too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: By the way, I am speaking in my official capacity as a Knight of the Golden Horseshoe here. Burn down the capitol, ladies. Er, I mean, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: BTW, to clear up confusion, Teachers aren't state employees but do have the majority of their regulations (and salary scale) set by the State. Thus they are dependent on the State legislators for pay raises. Like LKB, I'm the son of a WV school teacher (granted he was also a 29yr Navy Vet too). The entire system in WV is screwed up. The teacher contract is an evergreen contract that you are help to until you retire or die. There is no collective bargaining. You are technically an employee of one of the 55 boards but all regulation is handled via state law, not regulations, thus all employee-employer disputes end up in state court. The whole system is a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Everything I can find says the average teacher salary in WV is $45k. They are demanding a 5% raise, and better benefits. I support that. I don't support walking out over it when the median wage in WV is just over $39k. WV is a low income are (outside Charleston, Wheeling, Morgantown, and the pan handle). Yes, it is a low wage compared the national average, but compared to what others are making in the state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Er, I mean, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I take my knighthood seriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_the_Golden_Horseshoe_Expedition In West Virginia, there is a competition named after the Golden Horseshoe(s), since it was previously thought that Spotswood's party had penetrated as far as the current borders of the state. The Golden Horseshoe test has been administered in West Virginia each year since 1931 and is the longest running program of its kind in the United States. The top-scoring students in each county receive the award. Each county has at least two winners. The exam tests student knowledge on West Virginia citizenship, civics and government, economics, geography, history and current events. Since 2008, all 8th grade students take a test online to show their knowledge of West Virginia's history. The students with the highest scores are "knighted" and receive a golden horseshoe in Charleston, West Virginia, the state capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Everything I can find says the average teacher salary in WV is $45k. They are demanding a 5% raise, and better benefits. I support that. I don't support walking out over it when the median wage in WV is just over $39k. WV is a low income are (outside Charleston, Wheeling, Morgantown, and the pan handle). Yes, it is a low wage compared the national average, but compared to what others are making in the state? Teachers are usually one of the better educated in that state (and a lot of states). Their compensation level isn't reflective of their education level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I take my knighthood seriously. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_the_Golden_Horseshoe_Expedition Now I'm dying. I thought you made up an honorific for frequenting the Golden Horseshoe, the strip club in Charles Town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Popeman38 said: Everything I can find says the average teacher salary in WV is $45k. They are demanding a 5% raise, and better benefits. I support that. I don't support walking out over it when the median wage in WV is just over $39k. WV is a low income are (outside Charleston, Wheeling, Morgantown, and the pan handle). Yes, it is a low wage compared the national average, but compared to what others are making in the state? West Virginia borders 5 states and is within a 45 minute drive of the District. Every state on the border has a much higher average teacher's salary. My father retired after 30 years in WV and immediately took a job in Pennslyvania at a school where he actually had a shorter commute. He immediately made $10,000 more and had health insurance where he had a $0 contribution. And after he retired again after 10 years, he actually got a retirement from PA. There are 700 open teaching jobs in WV. These can't be filled, because no one is going to work for that pay, when they can drive 15 minutes in the other direction and make $5 or $6 thousand more. Oklahoma is experiencing the same problem, because no teacher in their right mind will work in Oklahoma when they can work in the north Dallas suburbs for substantially more. Just now, PleaseBlitz said: Now I'm dying. I thought you made up an honorific for frequenting the Golden Horseshoe, the strip club in Charles Town. No, I was actually knighted with a sword by the Secretary of Education in 1987. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said: Now I'm dying. I thought you made up an honorific for frequenting the Golden Horseshoe, the strip club in Charles Town. Ranson. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Everything I can find says the average teacher salary in WV is $45k. They are demanding a 5% raise, and better benefits. I support that. I don't support walking out over it when the median wage in WV is just over $39k. WV is a low income are (outside Charleston, Wheeling, Morgantown, and the pan handle). Yes, it is a low wage compared the national average, but compared to what others are making in the state? I'll let Major speak to this when he gets here, but that number includes principals and administrators, who are evidently significantly overpaid. https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/politics/super-sized-school-salaries/article_ee79d4e8-6949-54ea-a9e9-1f8fb9a3cc76.html (note that this is from 2011). 4 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: No, I was actually knighted with a sword by the Secretary of Education in 1987. That's cool and all, but I'm debating who I'd rather be "knighted" by and leaning towards my version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: You ever done an online course before? There are serious limitations to this method depending on the topic matter (though some high schools do offer some online classes now). Still an actual teacher for each online class, I don't think we're there yet with AI being able to grade papers. Actually, I did. What was fiction maybe reality one day. I can see Androids being developed that can pass as humans. DATA of Star Trek: TNG could be reality one day and when that happens, alot of jobs including teaching will be eliminated for humans. 31 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: My mom taught high school English in WV for 30 years, and my dad was an elementary school principal. I feel like this strike is slowly opening people's eyes to just how badly the state government has sold out WV to out of state corporate interests over the last 15 years or so (both parties played a role in this). They've cut taxes to the bone. They've ended regulations and have turned the state in a chemical wasteland. They just passed a law that literally allows a gas company to drill your land without your permission if your drug-addicted cousins agree to it. And somehow, they still have no money. I want to see a teacher riot, because I assume it will be very polite riot involving Christmas sweaters. By the way, I am speaking in my official capacity as a Knight of the Golden Horseshoe here. Burn down the capitol, ladies. So, Charleston is stinking again? I remember you knew when you were Charleston because it stunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 That's South Charleston. I hated going to Charleston when I was a kid. It was a five hour drive to hang out in a mall for two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: Actually, I did. What was fiction maybe reality one day. I can see Androids being developed that can pass as humans. DATA of Star Trek: TNG could be reality one day and when that happens, alot of jobs including teaching will be eliminated for humans. It's possible, but we're no where near that level of AI "If, then" capabilities. You can make them look human all you want, but sexbots will be first because the expectations of their intellect will be much lower then other positions you're considering may be replaced. Is a robot going to be asked to do parent teacher conferences? You might as well have a human instead of figuring how to programmer everything that goes into being a teacher. I agree that at some point in the future, we may have to have laws against certain positions being automated (I believe teachers should be one of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, techboy said: True story: Near the beginning of the year in the class I was just referring to, we had the students constructing a timeline of the Universe, and one of the events they had to find a date for was the formation of the first stars. As I was making my rounds, I noticed that MANY groups had written... 2003. Those are some REALLY Young Earth Creationists you have there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Popeman38 said: Everything I can find says the average teacher salary in WV is $45k. They are demanding a 5% raise, and better benefits. I support that. I don't support walking out over it when the median wage in WV is just over $39k. WV is a low income are (outside Charleston, Wheeling, Morgantown, and the pan handle). Yes, it is a low wage compared the national average, but compared to what others are making in the state? All those charts that have been posted are to help those that oppose this to sleep better at night. Median, shmedian. The company I work for doesn't pay anyone less than 31,000/year + benefits, to file a paper or answer a phone - needing nothing more than a GED to do so. I know a 2nd year high school teacher in Jefferson County, WV (Eastern Panhandle) that makes about 34K/year and has much more expensive insurance. Her job requires a degree and a lot more work than someone who answers phones or file papers. The eastern panhandle is damn near part of the DMV at this point. I live in Jefferson County, about 2 miles from Loudoun County and 3 miles from Washington & Frederick County, MD. We are constantly losing teachers to the bordering states that pay a lot more. How are we supposed to draw qualified teachers to our schools when they can drive 15-30 minutes further and make a lot more $$$? While yes - the majority of the state has a low cost of living, the eastern panhandle is much closer to those of its neighbors in MD and VA than it is the rest of the state. I think it's easy to see that they had absolutely no choice but to walk out in order for anything to happen. This thing is still hanging up in the air a week after the governor promised to get this thing done and the kids back in school by last Thursday. The folks responsible for this holdup make comments such as "If they can pay for supplies and food for the kids out of their own pocket, they don't need a raise." They are pieces of immoral, corrupt, and entitled ****. I say this as someone who is inconvenienced by the timing and length of this strike as it pertains to having someone to watch my kid. But I completely understand why they are doing what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 West Virginia doesn't value education. The GOP as a whole doesn't value education. They want an uneducated populous with the lowest amount of education possible. If you are educated, you might actually think. Take a look at what the GOP wants policy wise and come to the realization that most of what the GOP wants isn't really good for the average citizen. The GOP can't have that; so they will do everything in their power to weaken education. They will make it hard for all but the rich, to be able to attain higher education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 This all makes perfect sense as soon as you realize that the radical Republicans in the State Senate see this as an opportunity to break the public sector unions and finally turn West Virginia into the Randian paradise that will make everyone richer than King Farouk. This stopped being about 1 or 2 percentage points almost the moment it began. The good news is, West Virginia politicians are exceedingly stupid, and they are overplaying their hand. They are also making a folk hero out of Senator Ojeda who is going to end up Senator or Governor before this is all over. All in all, the state-wide temper tantrum over the election of Barack Obama has worked out wonderfully for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said: I'll let Major speak to this when he gets here, but that number includes principals and administrators, who are evidently significantly overpaid. https://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/politics/super-sized-school-salaries/article_ee79d4e8-6949-54ea-a9e9-1f8fb9a3cc76.html (note that this is from 2011). Your quoted article says the average teacher makes $43,500. I understand that they are underpaid, but a state like WV can't afford to pay what VA or MD pays their teachers. Honestly, teachers are underpaid in every state. Cali has an average teachers salary of just over $72k, with the median household income of just over $63k (average salary is almost $52k). The numbers are higher, but this is a problem in every state. WV just happens to have a depressed economy... 2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: That's South Charleston. I hated going to Charleston when I was a kid. It was a five hour drive to hang out in a mall for two days. What part of WV? My family is from Ansted in Fayette County. Used to own land there, but sold it because it the upkeep was too expensive and it was in the "middle" of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I was wondering if this would ever make it on to ES. This whole thing started with our insurance. It’s important to note that the 1990 teachers strike resulted in a really good state sponsored insurance plan in lieu of more raises. (They also got a 5k raise, which in today’s money is about 4.5x what we’re fighting for now.). The insurance for teachers in WV was always a selling point to somewhat offset the abysmal pay. Since that time it has slowly been chipped away. Keep in mind, we have no real collective bargaining In our state. Our legislature controls our salaries and also the amount that they’ll fund for our insurance each year. After 28 years, our legislature has yet to find a committed funding source. We have not had a raise in a decade. In that time our insurance kept rising. Just in the last 3 years our deductibles quadrupled. Out of pocket max went up by 40%. Premiums have went up a lot but I don’t want to give a number because I’m not sure. So this year our legislature touted a 5% pay raise spread out over 5 years. But it’s not really 5% , it’s 5% of aggregate teacher salary (42,400,so we aren’t even using the mysterious 45k-49k that keeps getting floated around. And that equates to 404$ per year). In the meantime, they proposed crazy PEIA increases, changing how they figure premiums, changing from 80/20 to 70/30, limiting out of state coverage (which is huge for us in border areas) among other things that would have cost us from 5-7k more out of pocket. They were going to require us to use fitbits and report data regularly or face even bigger hikes. So so they control the insurance and the slalries. Move money around tell us we are getting a raise. I won’t compare us to the miners plight but it’s almost like script. So we fight the insurance and they don’t really move on it for the first few weeks of the 60 day legislative session. Then we start to protest. Walk ins. People going to capitol. Start to plan a strike and suddenly they start trying to do run game with PEIA. But they also introduce bills clearly designed to undermine teachers. Dropping requirements to teach, strengthening laws against right to assemble, bills clearly aimed at weakening unions. And no REAL movement on PEIA. Eventually they propose and pass a 2%/1%1% pay raise. By this time teachers are ready to walk. They announce a 2 day walk out for 2/22 and 2/23. All 55 counties call off school 2 days. No movement. Counties then call off school next two days. Our governor on 2/27 goes on a magic carpet ride around the state hosting town halls. He manages to tell one woman that “I can play the town redneck too!” , ask the crowd “You’re not gonna shoot me are you?” He gets back to Charleston that night, meets with a group of legislators, budget advisors and union reps. Holds a press conference and announced we are giving 5% raises to all education employees and we would be back to work Thursday, citing Wednesday as a cooling off period. Senate Republicans hinted they might not pass it but we wouldn’t know before Wednesday so we bucked union advice and stayed out. And we were vindicated when the House passed it 98-1, the Senate let it sit all day Friday and most of the day Saturday. And after 5 hours or so voted to amend the bill and lower the raise to 4%. So thats where we are at. Teachers here have been packing and delivering food bags around the countybto needy families. I spearheaded a volunteer effort to assist at the various places that are providing low cost child care options. Our community and board of ed have stood behind us. But we’re tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Your quoted article says the average teacher makes $43,500. I understand that they are underpaid, but a state like WV can't afford to pay what VA or MD pays their teachers. Honestly, teachers are underpaid in every state. Cali has an average teachers salary of just over $72k, with the median household income of just over $63k (average salary is almost $52k). The numbers are higher, but this is a problem in every state. I agree that teachers are generally underpaid. And the fact that the article was from 2011 (as I noted) and Major's post make a lot of sense together. Teacher salaries have stayed stagnant in the last 7 years, while their take home pay has been significantly cut due to the health insurance going up $5k-$7k (to use Major's figures). That is up to a 15% cut in pay. I'd be pissed too. Quote WV just happens to have a depressed economy... All the more reason to invest in education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 My father has been losing his mind over PEIA for close to a decade, because it's possibly the only insurance plan in the country that is means-tested. Everyone has the same insurance, but the more you earn, the more you pay. As a principal, that really impacted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Major Harris said: And we were vindicated when the House passed it 98-1, the Senate let it sit all day Friday and most of the day Saturday. And after 5 hours or so voted to amend the bill and lower the raise to 4%. So thats where we are at. Teachers here have been packing and delivering food bags around the countybto needy families. I spearheaded a volunteer effort to assist at the various places that are providing low cost child care options. Our cimmunity and board of ed have stood behind us. But we’re tired. So what do you think is going to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.