Teachers Union Power- From WV & Beyond/ Mountain Mama - WV Thread

[Popeman38]

1 minute ago, Major Harris said:

Honest question....do you think teachers walk around with a strike in their back pocket ready to use in an instant?

 

This is years in he making.  We send some representatives to legislative sessions every year.  We call. We email.  We even staged statewide “walk ins” and demonstrations.  These guys didn’t listen. They knew this was coming and quite frankly seem to revel in it. 

That's not an honest question, because teachers going on strike is so rare you know the answer can't be yes.

 

I support teachers getting a raise.  I understand the issues around benefits and how much they cost.  Like I said, I have family that has lived in Fayette County since the late 1800s (my great grandfather was born 3/25/1913 in Victor, WV). But I disagree with the notion that teachers are criminally underpaid compared to the rest of the employees of the state. If an average employee is earning $39k/year working ~270 days while an average teacher is earning $43,500/year working ~200 days, I can't see how teachers are criminally underpaid.  And to justify walking off the job, the pay disparity has to be criminal.

 

And using the salary for a Loudoun County teacher to justify raises for WV teachers isn't a fair comparison.  Loudoun County is by far a more prosperous county than any county in WV. 

[PleaseBlitz]

8 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

If an average employee is earning $39k/year working ~270 days while an average teacher is earning $43,500/year working ~200 days, I can't see how teachers are criminally underpaid.  And to justify walking off the job, the pay disparity has to be criminal.

 

I think using that particular statistic is pretty misleading b/c in most areas, the average salary is pulled down by minimum wage workers making less than $20k, but buoyed by (generally urban) white collar jobs in tech/law/finance/etc.  WV has very little in the way of urban areas to pull that number up.  

 

8 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

 

And using the salary for a Loudoun County teacher to justify raises for WV teachers isn't a fair comparison.  Loudoun County is by far a more prosperous county than any county in WV. 

 

It matters because it would be relatively easy for teachers in the WV panhandle to simply change school districts.  Much better pay for equal work. 

[Major Harris]

First, as stated before, those numbers are grossly inflated.  They include superintendents and principals. You would have to work close to twenty years to get to that number on the state scale. 

 

Secondly, does the average state worker have a college degree ?  Masters?  No.  Do they have to renew their license to work every few years and pay for the application and the coursework?   

 

Is the average worker in charge of developing the youth of today?

 

People that state out of one side of their mouth that they support teachers but can’t get with this because they make a little more than the average worker in the state kill me.  If average is what you think teachers deserve then you don’t value them.  

 

Comparisons to Loudoun are absolutely valid when I can drive twenty minutes to work there.  No I don’t expect to make the same as a Loudoun teacher but if our state is gonna be competitive we at least have to make enough to make teachers weigh the commute vs the money. 

 

@Popeman38

[LD0506]

[The Evil Genius]

16 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

Unless you are talking about corporate welfare, private school vouchers, and the myriad of other GOP handouts that DC..er Fox news tells me to support.

 

What a ****.

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

It's possible that in the next hour, this will be over.

 

But if it is not, it's because Senator Blair and his ilk in the Senate think teachers are actually overpaid.

 

Actually, that's not fair. I have no doubt that they would give a ten percent raise if part of the agreement was outlawing WVEA and AFT.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

As for average salary.....

 

The largest employer in the state of WV is WalMart. The 4th largest is Kroger. Based on that, the overall state average actually strikes me as high.

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

What a ****.

 

 

Republicanism is a disease.  There is no negotiating to be done with a ****ing retard like that.

[PleaseBlitz]

3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

As for average salary.....

 

The largest employer in the state of WV is WalMart. The 4th largest is Kroger. Based on that, the overall state average actually strikes me as high.

 

Holgo and Huggins are ****ing up the averages.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

And now Justice has announced that the deal is 5 percent across the board for all state employees.

 

So, why did this take 9 days?

[Popeman38]

2 minutes ago, Major Harris said:

First, as stated before, those numbers are grossly inflated.  They include superintendents and principals. You would have to work close to twenty years to get to that number on the state scale. 

The same can be said for every average - the numbers are thrown off by the top.

 

Quote

Secondly, does the average state worker have a college degree ?  Masters?  No.  Do they have to renew their license to work every few years and pay for the application and the coursework?

No.  Here's a question - hasn't this always been an issue with teachers salaries? Where does the requirement to have a masters degree come from?

 

Quote

Is the average worker in charge of developing the youth of today?

No.  

 

Quote

People that state out of one side of their mouth that they support teachers but can’t get with this because they make a little more than the average worker in the state kill me.  If average is what you think teachers deserve then you don’t value them.  

Why? Why can't one support a higher wage for teachers while not supporting walking off the job - one you ask earlier be held to a different standard than normal jobs (bolded and red).

 

Quote

Comparisons to Loudoun are absolutely valid when I can drive twenty minutes to work there.  No I don’t expect to make the same as a Loudoun teacher but if our state is gonna be competitive we at least have to make enough to make teachers weigh the commute vs the money. 

WV will never be competitive to Loudoun County when it comes to pay. The tax base isn't there, the population isn't there. Even if the government rolled back their economic policies to what you advocate, teachers pay in Jefferson County will not be competitive with Loudoun County.  Why would you try to compare Jefferson County to one of the wealthiest counties in the country? Why not compare to Frederick County (average of $50k)? Clarke County (elementary median $45k)?  Those numbers are "skewed" by administrators as well. But they are more accurate comp counties to Jefferson then Loudoun is.  But Loudoun is used because they pay more.

[Major Harris]

One important part I never mentioned is that we have been on strike for ALL state employees.  Realize what we just did people. 

[The Evil Genius]

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Holgo and Huggins are ****ing up the averages.

 

And the chemists at Mylan.

[Major Harris]

.......last edited by Zoony. 

[The Evil Genius]

In WV, it would almost make too much sense to have a statewide pay scale for teachers.

 

If the pay is truly governed by the state, then why does a teacher in Monroe county make less than a teacher in Greenbrier county? The cost of living is nearly (if not totally) the same. Isn't that how state workers are paid thete? There's no variance by county, right?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

2 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

 

 

WV will never be competitive to Loudoun County when it comes to pay. The tax base isn't there, the population isn't there. Even if the government rolled back their economic policies to what you advocate, teachers pay in Jefferson County will not be competitive with Loudoun County.  Why would you try to compare Jefferson County to one of the wealthiest counties in the country? Why not compare to Frederick County (average of $50k)? Clarke County (elementary median $45k)?  Those numbers are "skewed" by administrators as well. But they are more accurate comp counties to Jefferson then Loudoun is.  But Loudoun is used because they pay more.

 

Loudon is an outlier. But WV borders five states. I grew up one mile from the Ohio border and one mile from the Pennsylvania border. Major probably has a 20 minute drive to both Maryland and Viriginia. I would think that the only major population center that is not a few miles from a neighboring state is Charleston.

 

It's actually a mystery why anyone in those areas choose to teach in West Virginia.

 

He is my mortal enemy (Kidding!), but I give Major credit for actually working in West Virginia when he could work anonymously in VA for 25 percent more.

 

My father is still kicking himself for not taking a job in PA earlier in his career. He figures he left $250K on the table over the course of just ten years by not taking a shorter commute into PA simply because he felt loyal to his state. His reward was a healthcare plan that forced by mother to drive 90 minutes for chemo instead of 45.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Just now, The Evil Genius said:

In WV, it would almost make too much sense to have a statewide pay scale for teachers.

 

If the pay is truly governed by the state, then why does a teacher in Monroe county make less than a teacher in Greenbrier county? The cost of living is nearly (if not totally) the same. Isn't that how state workers are paid thete? There's no variance by county, right?

 

Why does policy come out of Charleston while there are 55 separate school boards implementing that policy?

 

Individual counties can add to salaries via their own levies, but that usually amounts to maybe $1K max. Ohio County (Wheeling) always had among the highest salaries in the state, and someone with my mom's qualifications (years/education) would make maybe $1100 more a year. Han**** County usually paid better when Weirton Steel was booming. That was about $750 more a year.

 

Teachers - by and large - don't like disrupting their lives. My mom had the same classroom for 30 years and had two principals in that time. She had a six minute drive. She had lunch with her two best friends everyday. She wasn't going to disrupt that for a grand.

 

Again, though, I think in retrospect, she wonders why she didn't go to Ohio where my cousin was a phys ed teacher and made, on average, around $8K more a year than her. She basically took the first job she was offered out of college and never left - which used to be the case for many teachers.

 

That made sense when teachers were mostly women and their husbands worked in either a mill or a mine or a plant and also stayed put for 30 years.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Republicans are evil, part 5,327: They have apparently given all state workers a 5 percent raise.

 

But are cutting Medicaid to do it.

 

Again, the oil and gas companies are making billions. Billions!!!!

 

And very little of that money is finding its way in state. Out of state companies hiring out of state workers to extract gas that is taken out of state.

 

These people can go to hell.

[Popeman38]

 

58 minutes ago, Major Harris said:

You really don’t know about this topic much so I’ll leave you to you. 

That's always a constructive tactic, accuse someone you disagree with of not knowing anything. 

21 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Republicans are evil, part 5,327: They have apparently given all state workers a 5 percent raise.

 

But are cutting Medicaid to do it.

 

Again, the oil and gas companies are making billions. Billions!!!!

 

And very little of that money is finding its way in state. Out of state companies hiring out of state workers to extract gas that is taken out of state.

 

These people can go to hell.

This is the WV economy in a nutshell.

[bearrock]

Doesn't the fact that WV has 700 unfilled teaching positions despite above state average pay indicate that they aren't getting paid enough?  At the end of the day, state legislature can set the wage wherever they want, doesn't matter if not enough people want the job (especially if those candidates have better options across state lines).  I'm assuming they are just leaning on existing teachers to fill multiple roles at this point.  How long will that be sustainable?

 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:32 PM, Popeman38 said:

Teachers should not be able to go on strike. They should be considered essential. WTF did the students do to deserve losing spring break or going longer in to the summer? What about the seniors? They need paperwork for college admissions. 

Its actually against the law here in WV for public/government employees to strike. But apparently that law doesn't matter as they are doing it without consequence.

The teachers are going through what every other person in the state and country, for that matter, have been going through for years. Stagnant or declining salaries and increasing insurance costs, resulting in "salary cuts".  They however have been sheltered from the insurance stuff until recently. Listening to them, its clear they have no idea what the rest of us have been dealing with. They have no idea how good their health benefits have been for the longest time because they have enjoyed paying nearly nothing for their insurance forever.

I know this because I had managed my father's affairs the last couple years before he died recently. He had the PEIA state insurance and retirement and it was shockingly fantastic. Public employees are now dealing with the reality that those kind of benefits are simply not sustainable. Welcome to our world guys. I understand their arguments and am sympathetic to a point because escalating insurance costs and pay cuts suck. But someone needs to explain to me why public/government employees should be sheltered from such realities especially since the rest of us, living with these realities will have to foot an additional bill to continue to shelter them.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:14 PM, Popeman38 said:

Everything I can find says the average teacher salary in WV is $45k.  They are demanding a 5% raise, and better benefits.  I support that. I don't support walking out over it when the median wage in WV is just over $39k. WV is a low income are (outside Charleston, Wheeling, Morgantown, and the pan handle). Yes, it is a low wage compared the national average, but compared to what others are making in the state?

This is true. The cost of living is lower here. Can't find the article now but teachers salaries here are not bad taking this into consideration. Every profession, except lawyers make less money in WV than they can make in any surrounding state. But it costs more to live there, so take your pick. 

[Destino]

4 hours ago, LD0506 said:

*Sen Arvon embarrassing herself*

This is a salary negotiation and a difficult one.  There isn't a single thing about this situation that relates to a hand out in any way. 

 

The USA has a growing problem with covering its essential domestic responsibilities.  Federal government constantly operates in the red.  We almost lost a city because they went cheap on the levees.  Toll roads are becoming more common because state governments don't want to pay for the roads.  Infrastructure is aging and lagging behind much of the modern world.  Teachers and schools are facing salary and budget issues all over the country. 

 

The shining city on the hill needs a new coat of paint and the landlords would rather see the city fall to disrepair than pay for it. 

[The Evil Genius]

2 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

 

The teachers are going through what every other person in the state and country, for that matter, have been going through for years. Stagnant or declining salaries and increasing insurance costs, resulting in "salary cuts".  They however have been sheltered from the insurance stuff until recently. Listening to them, its clear they have no idea what the rest of us have been dealing with. They have no idea how good their health benefits have been for the longest time because they have enjoyed paying nearly nothing for their insurance forever.

I know this because I had managed my father's affairs the last couple years before he died recently. He had the PEIA state insurance and retirement and it was shockingly fantastic. Public employees are now dealing with the reality that those kind of benefits are simply not sustainable. Welcome to our world guys. I understand their arguments and am sympathetic to a point because escalating insurance costs and pay cuts suck. But someone needs to explain to me why public/government employees should be sheltered from such realities especially since the rest of us, living with these realities will have to foot an additional bill to continue to shelter them.

 

What stops anyone from becoming a WV public sector employee then? I mean, if the pay and benefits are so great, shouldn't there be low attrit rates and no openings statewide?

[Major Harris]

In the end, this exposes a lot of things.  One of which is the extent that a lot people value education.   It’s not much in WV.  

 

Can anyone name another job where a PhD and twenty years experience barely clears 60k?

 

https://boe.jeff.k12.wv.us/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=1572&dataid=10554&FileName=Professional Salary Schedule with Extra Checks.pdf

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