Which wide receiver would you like Washington to get?

[skinny21]

9 hours ago, Audible_Red40 said:

Honestly as good as Landry & Robinson etc are, I just don't want to dish out extreme amounts for anyone of these guys.

 

If a Watkins or a Wallace comes a bit cheaper than the top dogs, then I'd go for that.

 

Yeah, I believe Wallace signed for 5.5/year a couple years ago?  Maybe a touch of inflation now, but he’s also older.  Have to think he comes far cheaper than Landry or a guy like Robinson (aren’t there rumors of a FT for him or is that Lee?).  

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Audible_Red40 said:

Honestly as good as Landry & Robinson etc are, I just don't want to dish out extreme amounts for anyone of these guys.

 

If a Watkins or a Wallace comes a bit cheaper than the top dogs, then I'd go for that.

 

Why?  Not saying you're wrong, but why go with second tier when you currently have exactly nothing proven at WR or TE at all?  (TE because Reed can't stay healthy.)

 

 

[Audible_Red40]

27 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Why?  Not saying you're wrong, but why go with second tier when you currently have exactly nothing proven at WR or TE at all?  (TE because Reed can't stay healthy.)

 

 

What's the benchmark for tier 1 receivers these days?  Landry gets a bunch of catches and tough yards but is 1000 yards worth paying $13-16 million for anymore?  The ball is spread around so much.  Me personally, I'd rather stay away from the golden boys and get a tier 2 guy who is "capable" of putting up numbers.  Only 13 WR's had 1000 yards. Only 13 WR's had 8 TD's or more.  To me it's not worth paying top dollar for that.

 

A guy like Watkins "shouldn't" command that much money and is totally capable of putting up the same numbers outside of receptions, which is Landry's forte.  Landry will not get 100 catches in this offense.  I'd rather not get into a bidding war on the top WR's via free agency.

[OVCChairman]

38 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Why?  Not saying you're wrong, but why go with second tier when you currently have exactly nothing proven at WR or TE at all?  (TE because Reed can't stay healthy.)

 

 

 

Last 2 seasons - 

 

Jarvis Landry - 206 rece - 2123 yds

Allen Robinson - 73 rec - 883 yds (injured all of 17, had 80 rec for 1400 yds the year before)

 

Mike Wallace - 208 rec - 1765 yds

 

Wallace will likely be a lot less expensive but still productive.  It would come with adding a deep threat though.. He's not going to be a 'take the top off' type guy, but he is a very solid vet guy who instantly makes the room more mature.  

 

personally I'd like Emmanuel Sanders if he gets let go for $$ but that's still just a 'could be'

 

[freakofthesouth]

49 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Why?  Not saying you're wrong, but why go with second tier when you currently have exactly nothing proven at WR or TE at all?  (TE because Reed can't stay healthy.)

 

 

 

Im tryin ya check myself in my personal bias with wanting to draft a big upside WR, so I was looking a bit deeper last evening into the FA class.

 

why wouldn’t we go after Landry or A Rob?  Both of them will carry large contracts. I am not an expert on the cap numbers, but I do know we have not a lot of space to work with. If we scooped one of these Top FA WRs it would cost too much money.

 

On playerprofiler.com, John Brown is actually the closest thing to D Jack that we will find in FA.  In fact his comp is D Jack.  He might be affordable?  Runs a 4.35.  That’s the deep speed we could really use.

 

Sammy watkins is intriguing. He’s only 24 and it looks like his market value is a bit more affordable.  That said, right, players are more than just stats and numbers. These guys have to have their head right and in the game.  Why don’t the rams want to resign him, if he is worth it?  And if he’s not, he’d be leaving a system that is very close to Grudens.  See, this is the problem with FAs in general, they are sort of cast offs, in a way... 

 

with limited cap funds, we should be chasing, in this order, an OG, a DT, an RB.  The WR market is a bit slim and the top names seem to command more $$ than we can afford.  That’s why the idea is that we draft an impact WR early which will be much cheaper and could pay major dividends.  

 

It’s also important to again point out that the WR draft class is very slim so if we want someone to come in and contribute next season we have to take one early.

 

 

 

 

[Reaper Skins]

7 minutes ago, freakofthesouth said:

 

On playerprofiler.com, John Brown is actually the closest thing to D Jack that we will find in FA.  In fact his comp is D Jack.  He might be affordable?  Runs a 4.35.  That’s the deep speed we could really use.

 

Best lottery ticket available in free agency by far.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Why?  Not saying you're wrong, but why go with second tier when you currently have exactly nothing proven at WR or TE at all?  (TE because Reed can't stay healthy.)

 

 

Well, Davis and Crowder are proven threats, and Thompson is as well (I get why you didn’t include him, just saying).  

 

IMO, yes, we need more weapons, but 1) I put improving the defense and run game as higher priorities, 2) we have limited cap space, 3) we aren’t entirely sure how Landry fits as an outside receiver, 4) we have some big contracts coming up (Smith/Scherff/Crowder), so tying up big money on a player is a concern.  

 

Landry could work out great for us, so I’m not inherently against the move, but I have to wonder if we’re better off using that money elsewhere.  Feel like Landry is a great add for a team that feels they’re close.  We may be closer than some think, but we have a lot of question marks too... and that makes me hesitant regarding Landry.  

[crabbypatty]

On 2/7/2018 at 2:54 PM, bobandweave said:

 

Moncrief is a free agent. Crabs would be a cut player. 

 

The NFL has different rules for cut players and free agents. If a team signs another teams free agents they count against the players who they lost to other teams. If a team signs a cut player they do not count against the players they lost. 

 

So say the Redskins lose Terrelle Pryor who signs with the Browns and decides to replace him with Donte Moncrief. They would cancel each other out. We would not get a free draft pick for losing Pryor because we picked up a free agent. 

 

Now say the Redskins lose Terrelle Pryor who signs with the Browns and decides to replace him with Michael Crabtree. They would not cancel each other out. We would still be getting a draft pick for losing Pryor. 

 

Which is why there is a premium on cut players in the league. Signing cut players does not hurt a team. 

 

We could potentially upgrade from Pryor to Crabtree and get a free draft pick from the league. Win-Win 

 

Maybe this is why old brucey bruce had so many guys on one year deals (minus the fact he's a tightwad)

hopefully some or all of these FA losses will turn into some draft picks

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Well, Davis and Crowder are proven threats, and Thompson is as well (I get why you didn’t include him, just saying).  

Davis is 98 years old and Crowder is a complementary guy.  His production goes down when threats on the outside don’t exist and he has to face more bodies inside.  He’s quicker than fast.

 

He could be one of the best inside slot guys, but it’s easy to take him away if you don’t have to worry about threats outside. You need threats outside who can win 1:1, which we don’t have.

[Skinsinparadise]

RotoUnderworld‏ @rotounderworld Feb 6

More

Top WR contested catch conversion rates: 1. Stefon Diggs: 83.3% 2. Kendall Wright: 76.5% 3. Juju: 73.7% 4. Albert Wilson: 72.4% 5. Davante Adams: 65.0% 5. Mohamed Sanu: 65.0% 7. Antonio Brown: 64.5% 7. Demaryius Thomas: 64.5% 9. Tyreek Hill: 64.3% 10. Larry Fitzgerald: 59.1%

[Est.1974]

The problem with this these mid tier WRs is they will be looking at 7 mil per year deals. Wilson seems a logical choice, sure Smith will have a take on that, think a lot of yards Wilson put up were with the rookie in at QB.

 

I suspect our WR quality is so average as a group we need to go all in on a #1

[skinny21]

34 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Davis is 98 years old and Crowder is a complementary guy.  His production goes down when threats on the outside don’t exist and he has to face more bodies inside.  He’s quicker than fast.

 

He could be one of the best inside slot guys, but it’s easy to take him away if you don’t have to worry about threats outside. You need threats outside who can win 1:1, which we don’t have.

Ok.  I was arguing your assertion that “we have nothing proven at WR or TE”.  

 

Crowder’s TDs dropped in a big way this year (and those turnovers, ugh), though after losing Jackson, Garçon, and Reed for most of the year, he pretty much maintained his yardage levels.  He is quicker than fast, which is a part of what allows him to separate.  But I agree, we need help on the outside and (as I’ve stated often) I think we could use an all around TE.  

 

Landry still seems a questionable choice given the reasons I provided.  I’m leaning toward picking up a mid tier guy in FA, drafting a guy or two, and see what we wind up with.  On the bright side, I can’t imagine we’ll be any worse than last year, lol.  

[freakofthesouth]

This is fun, most of these mocks are about a month old, but everything they are saying is true.

 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2018/01/16/nfl-mock-draft-texas-am-christian-kirk-2018-nfl-draft-projections-z/1034460001/

 

Quote

San Diego Union Tribune: Kirk selected by Redskins at No. 13

Eddie Brown writes: "The comparisons to Odell Beckham Jr. are apt. Kirk is an all-around pass-catcher known for his route-running and punt-return ability. He’s equally dangerous lined up outside or in the slot."

 

Quote

Christian Kirk (5-11, 200) is an explosive pass-catcher with the speed to take the top off of a defense and the quickness to make defenders miss in space. His play style is very reminiscent of another smaller former SEC wide receiver: Odell Beckham Jr."... Kirk is a lightning-quick playmaker who can blow the cover off a defense, which would certainly open up [New Orleans'] playbook.

 

And as I mentioned, Dallas fans are eyeing him at 19:

 

https://thelandryhat.com/2018/02/09/dallas-cowboys-why-christian-kirk-dak-friendly/

Quote

Kirk may not be the fastest wide receiver coming out of college, but he’s going to be near the top. While his height isn’t necessarily outstanding, it doesn’t need to be. Kirk is a guy who can get lost in coverage and he’s certainly a weapon that can get deep downfield quickly. He’s so talented that just his presence on the field forces defensive coordinators to address him with top notch personnel.

 

I would like nothing more than for his name to be called in Dallas... at pick 13.  And so it would begin in big D no less.

 

...and Rick Snider’s take on how badly the Skins need an impact return man:

 

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2018/01/12/snider-redskins-shouldnt-overlook-returners-in-draft/

Quote

There is a first-round option, though. Texas A&M receiver Christian Kirk not only led the Aggies in receptions three straight years with two 1,000-yard seasons, he also scored on six punt returns and a kickoff return. Now Kirk may be already gone when the Redskins pick 13th, but if not, he’d solve two problems. And, he keeps the Kirk name on the roster should a certain passer depart.

 

...”may already be gone”...?!  I would even venture to say at some point, he could solve 3 problems if he makes plays from the backfield every once in awhile, sweeps and motions and mismatches and what not.  Make no mistake, teams are coveting his versatility.  It’s rare skins fans.  We need explosive weapons on the offense.

 

Todd McShay on Kirk back in December:

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/93435/todd-mcshays-first-mock-ravens-select-baby-beckham-in-first-round

Quote

Kirk, who has not yet declared for the draft, has all the qualities to be a No. 1 target in the NFL, which is why there have been comparisons to All-Pro receiver Odell Beckham Jr. Kirk is an explosive slot receiver who can turn a slant into a touchdown. He's a deep threat who can run past corners. He's an all-around pass-catcher who is known for his route-running as well as punt return ability.

 

OMG just one more- last spring, McShay predicted the redskins would have the 13th pick!  And of course

https://247sports.com/college/texas-am/Bolt/ESPNs-McShay-has-Christian-Kirk-going-early-in-2018-mock-draft-52702415

Quote

McShay has wide receiver Christian Kirk coming off the board with the No. 13 pick to the Washington Redskins.

 

"The Redskins could be in the market for a wide receiver after signing Terrelle Pryor to a one-year deal. Kirk can absolutely fly. He led the Aggies in catches for the second season in a row and added three punt-return TDs to his résumé in 2016."

 

[OlufemiBiz]

*Is Oregon State Beavers WR/KR/PR, VICTOR 'QUICK 6' BOLDEN, Draft-Eligible?!?

 

 

 

*How 'bout West Virginia Mountaineers WR/KR/PR, Mario Alford?!?

 

 

 

*Or, Baylor University Bears WR, KD Cannon?!?

 

 

 

*Or, Notre Dame Fighting Irish's WR, Equanimeous St. Brown?!?

 

 

 

*Let's Make the Rest of the NFL 'FEAR The TURTLE', with Maryland Terrapins WR, DJ Moore!!!

 

 

 

*Or, Boise State Broncos WR, Cedric Wilson (former High School QB)! 

 

 

[freakofthesouth]

Me and JK is tight.

 

https://t.co/jp9Qd7x1wY

 

Quote

With Alex Smith as QB, Redskins must find their version of Tyreek Hill

The Washington Redskins found their quarterback. Now they need to find Alex Smith another version of what he had at receiver in Kansas City: Tyreek Hill.

 

Smith and the Chiefs’ offense were dangerous this season thanks to Hill’s game-breaking ability. They also received that from running back Kareem Huntand had a top tight end in Travis Kelce. But Smith got them the ball in position to make plays. The Redskins are well aware that they need those types of game-breaking players on offense -- and they knew that long before they traded for Smith (a deal that can’t become official until March 14). It was on their wish list before the season had ended.

Washington has a young slot receiver they love in Jamison Crowder and a talented X receiver whose potential they -- meaning players and coaches -- constantly point to in Josh Doctson. Beyond that, however, they don’t have a lot when it comes to players who can change games with one play. Ryan Grant is a free agent and they’d like to re-sign him. But even if they do, they’ll seek another wideout with speed to put opposite Doctson.

 

It’s not that Doctson is slow; he’s not. And he can make plays down the field. Of his 76 targets, 25 percent were on throws 20 yards or more down the field -- but he caught just five (with three others classified as drops). Only 5 percent of his catches came on throws of 40 yards or more, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Doctson has terrific ball-tracking skills and to consider him a finished product after one full season is silly. There was a lot he needed to learn -- and still can refine.

But the Redskins could use a speed guy on the other side -- someone such as DeSean Jackson, whom they allowed to leave via free agency last offseason. The Redskins did make an effort to retain him, but Tampa Bay topped their offer.

 

Jackson certainly has flaws: He was a poor blocker, which sometimes had an impact on where they could run the ball. Defenses knew this. But Jackson’s speed also scared defenses and forced them to abandon certain coverages -- or play them less. When Jackson was in the game in 2016, defenses used far fewer eight-man boxes, knowing what he could do -- and with Kirk Cousinsthrowing downfield more. Consequently, the Redskins averaged 4.69 yards per carry when Jackson was on the field (and a still-respectable 4.26 when he wasn’t).

 

There were plenty of times the Redskins used that fear to hit a team underneath on some sort of crosser to another receiver or tight end, leading to big plays.

 

In 2016, Jackson caught 16 passes that traveled at least 20 yards; 35 percent of his targets went that distance. Jackson’s speed enabled the Redskins to get better looks for tight end Jordan Reed on the other side when aligned wide by himself. Safeties typically would cheat to Jackson’s side.

But for a quarterback such as Smith, having someone who can turn short completions into long runs matters, too, as his history suggests Smith will throw a lot underneath.

 

Even last year, when Smith threw more downfield, he targeted Hill only 23 times on throws 20 or more yards -- that’s just 22 percent of his overall targets. Instead, Hill caught 54 passes either behind the line of scrimmage or within 10 yards.

 

Here’s another stat similar to Jackson’s: The Chiefs averaged 4.96 yards per run with Hill on the field and 4.25 when he wasn’t.

 

It’ll be interesting to see how Washington addresses this position. Among the speedy potential free agents: Sammy Watkins, Marqise Lee and Paul Richardson. Denver’s Emmanuel Sanders is rumored to be on the trading block. It doesn't need to be a big name, but someone who threatens a defense with his speed. If these options are too costly -- and they would be expensive -- then there are fast receivers in the draft. But that would lead to another year with a receiver adjusting to the NFL.

 

Regardless, the Redskins want more speed and the impact could be big.

 

[wit33]

Heard Jackson had a rough time in the Locke room and on field with Bucs, would be nice to get him back at 7-9mil a year. 

 

I like Watkins on the cheap, but that’s more to do with seeing his highlights, high draft pick and 1 good season. Should be easy to get intel from Rams. 

 

Im going pass on Landry, we need a nasty dude on offense, but can’t get with a 12-14 mil per year deal. Does he operate on the outside or primarily in the slot?

 

Damn, wish Doctson was able to show a bit more last year, so the WR position didn’t have to be such a great need. Still like what I’ve seen from a ceiling perspective. 

[freakofthesouth]

Nfldraftscout.com is a great resource guys for keeping track of prospects, with approximate 40 times, and updated seemingly accurate rankings.  If we’re looking for a Wr with speed, among other things, we can get a feel with this chart, which is sorted by approx 40 time and will more than likely be updated after the combine.

 

Rank	Name	College	Proj	Hgt	Wgt	40 ▾	20	10	Bench	Vert Jump	Broad Jump	Shuttle	3Cone
39	Trent Sherfield	Vanderbilt	7-FA	6-0	205
2	*Christian Kirk	Texas AM	1	5-11	200	4.39
5	DJ Chark	LSU	2	6-3	196	4.39
28	*Quadree Henderson	Pittsburgh	6-7	5-08	190	4.40
16	*Deontay Burnett	Southern California	4	5-11	170	4.43
4	James Washington	Oklahoma State	2	5-11	210	4.45
38	*Ray-Ray McCloud	Clemson	7-FA	5-09	180	4.45
37	*Antonio Callaway	Florida	7-FA	5-10	193	4.46
26	Daurice Fountain	Northern Iowa	5-6	6-2	210	4.47
29	*Richie James	Middle Tennessee	6-7	5-09	176	4.47
1	*Calvin Ridley	Alabama	1	6-1	190	4.48
9	*Deon Cain	Clemson	2-3	6-1	190	4.48
46	*Tavares Martin Jr.	Washington State		6-0	182	4.48
10	Dante Pettis	Washington	3	6-0	195	4.49
18	*Trey Quinn	Southern Methodist	4-5	6-0	202	4.49
20	Cedrick Wilson	Boise State	4-5	6-2	194	4.49
27	Darren Carrington II	Utah	6	6-1	205	4.49
43	Jazz Peavy	Wisconsin		6-0	189	4.50
45	Ervin Phillips	Syracuse		5-11	181	4.50
34	KaRaun White	West Virginia	7-FA	6-1	199	4.51
48	Davon Grayson	East Carolina		6-1	186	4.51
8	*Simmie Cobbs Jr.	Indiana	2-3	6-3	220	4.52
12	Michael Gallup	Colorado State	3	6-1	198	4.52
22	Jaleel Scott	New Mexico State	5	6-5	216	4.52
23	*Keke Coutee	Texas Tech	5	5-10	180	4.52
49	Marquez Valdes-Scantling	South Florida		6-4	204	4.52
6	Anthony Miller	Memphis	2	5-11	190	4.53

[OlufemiBiz]

*Drumroll, please...

 

How 'bout Atlanta Falcons' Free-Agent WR, TAYLOR (4.28 40-yard Dash Speed) GABRIEL?!?

 

HE Would Be QB ALEX SMITH's 'Tyreek Hill (REDSKINS-Version)'!!!

 

 

[freakofthesouth]

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/taylor-gabriel/. Says here 4.45.  I just think he’s too small at 5’8” and a buck 70.  He’ll never leave the slot...

[Mania]

On 2/13/2018 at 9:55 AM, OVCChairman said:

 

Last 2 seasons - 

 

Jarvis Landry - 206 rece - 2123 yds

Allen Robinson - 73 rec - 883 yds (injured all of 17, had 80 rec for 1400 yds the year before)

 

Mike Wallace - 208 rec - 1765 yds

 

Wallace will likely be a lot less expensive but still productive.  It would come with adding a deep threat though.. He's not going to be a 'take the top off' type guy, but he is a very solid vet guy who instantly makes the room more mature.  

 

personally I'd like Emmanuel Sanders if he gets let go for $$ but that's still just a 'could be'

 

Wallace had 124 rec and 1765 over the last couple years.  You had the yards right, not sure how you ended up with 208 yards.  

2016 - 72 rec

2017 - 52 rec

 

 

 

 

 

[OVCChairman]

17 hours ago, SkinsFanMania said:

Wallace had 124 rec and 1765 over the last couple years.  You had the yards right, not sure how you ended up with 208 yards.  

2016 - 72 rec

2017 - 52 rec

 

 

 

 

 

Woah you're right... lol sorry I looked at the wrong column... he had 208 targets.  

 

2016 - 116

2017 - 92

[Mania]

4 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

Woah you're right... lol sorry I looked at the wrong column... he had 208 targets.  

 

2016 - 116

2017 - 92

lol, now that's a big difference.  

[OVCChairman]

25 minutes ago, SkinsFanMania said:

lol, now that's a big difference.  

yeah lol oops... my bad 

[joeken24]

On 2/18/2018 at 12:32 AM, OlufemiBiz said:

*Drumroll, please...

 

How 'bout Atlanta Falcons' Free-Agent WR, TAYLOR (4.28 40-yard Dash Speed) GABRIEL?!?

 

HE Would Be QB ALEX SMITH's 'Tyreek Hill (REDSKINS-Version)'!!!

 

 

I likes. Already has NFL film, young, makes plays, and already has playoff experience. Crazy that he was cut by the lowly Browns. He's small (at 5'8), so you're not getting much in the way of blocking. But he seems to be able to take the top off and track the ball well. The Eagles can attest to that and would have to adjust to it when the Redskins play them next year.

[joeken24]

Richie James
Allen Lazard