Est.1974 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 33 minutes ago, UKskins said: No way Cousins sits for a year out of spite. None whatsoever. That doesn't help his market value for next year one bit... I agree. Another team won't wait a year for him either. Still a chance we'll get a trade in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Keim laid out all of the reasons a sign-and-trade won't happen in this article: http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35524/will-the-redskins-trade-kirk-cousins-dont-hold-your-breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 The tag plus Alex puts us over the cap as soon as the deal is signed. We either have to cut players or start restructuring deals to hold Kirk at that point. Why would anyone give us picks for a player we are going to be forced to cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, bobandweave said: This was just posted http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000913035/article/winners-losers-of-the-alex-smith-trade-kirk-cousins-benefits The writer says that the Redskins did not overpay for Smith, and that the 70 million guaranteed money being discussed was only for injury. He also states that it’s likely the team can cut Smith for performance reasons and not have to pay that much to him 1 You gotta be kidding me, its all injury guarantees and people are ****ing? Am I missing something? Why would Smith even do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, mistertim said: Obviously it's a risk. I would never say otherwise. Just pointing out that if the Skins really wanted to play hardball and basically go with a "everyone is ****ed now" scorched earth strategy they could likely force Kirk into a trade as I see it incredibly unlikely that he'd be fine with taking zero snaps for an entire year just as a "**** you" to the Skins, considering the damage the whole thing would likely to do his market value in 2019. Bruce playing hardball is what got us into this mess, please don't double down on our idiocy now. Let the guy walk and hope for a comp pick, it's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, WelshSkinsFan said: Bruce playing hardball is what got us into this mess, please don't double down on our idiocy now. Let the guy walk and hope for a comp pick, it's over. I'm not necessarily advocating for it, just saying that people who say "we have zero leverage" aren't exactly correct. Just depends on how far Bruce and Dan are willing to go and how bad they believe Kirk wants to go to Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: You gotta be kidding me, its all injury guarantees and people are ****ing? Am I missing something? Why would Smith even do that? Probably at least 1 year is guaranteed and most of the other bidders for his services were looking for a rental whilst they groomed his successor. I am assuming he is betting on himself. There is probably a certain amount fully guaranteed for the first year which will be on top of the $17 million he gets this year on his old deal and it is probably the best he was going to get at this point. If he wins a lot of games the next couple of years the team will pick up his options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: You gotta be kidding me, its all injury guarantees and people are ****ing? Am I missing something? Why would Smith even do that? People are going to complain about this because Kirk had his fans and supporters all along. And a case can be made that they hurt the defense in this trade. But complaining about the guaranteed money is silly. Most likely they complain because they are upset with the front office and don’t think Alex is as good as Kirk. I contend when Alex went to the Chiefs he joined a 2-14 team and took them to the playoffs four of the past five seasons so we are in fine hands at the position now Smith wanted a LTD. Smith got that with the Skins. Unlike Cousins he didn’t want to play on a one year deal. The Browns and Broncos weren’t offering Smith a multiple year deal, they wanted him to play out this season and see where it went. Which gave us another advantage over those teams and partly why those clubs offered more for him then the Chiefs took. The Broncos offered a second round pick and Talib. If your the Chiefs that sounds better then a third round pick and Fuller. I would rather have Talib and the second. The Chiefs took the option that best suited Alex and them and that was our offer but on paper was less then they could have gotten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: You gotta be kidding me, its all injury guarantees and people are ****ing? Am I missing something? Why would Smith even do that? Reading that, there is still a good deal of guaranteed money, but $71 mil fully guaranteed in injury. The guarantee could still be $60 mil total.. but we won't know that for sure about a month and a half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: The tag plus Alex puts us over the cap as soon as the deal is signed. We either have to cut players or start restructuring deals to hold Kirk at that point. Why would anyone give us picks for a player we are going to be forced to cut? That's why the only real trading partners are Denver who are in full recruit mode. The Browns will float a ridiculous offer for Cousins in FA. Denver won't be able to match it - sure they hope they can sell Cousins on the SB pedigree etc and lock him up at a reasonable rate but money talks (seems to shout at Cousins) and the deal is a whole lot easier to sell if they haven't got the Browns on the phone offering him $40mill (obvious exaggeration) per season and $100mill signing bonus (doubling down on hyperbole here). You obviously don't pull this off without risk which is what makes it so unlikely, but never bet against Bruce in a dick swinging contest - he's shown time and time again he is willing to do stupid **** to "win" a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: You gotta be kidding me, its all injury guarantees and people are ****ing? Am I missing something? Why would Smith even do that? The ****ing is based on the #'s reported. Also, Rosenthal states "likely" so he really doesn't know the details either. We'll have to wait to find out the nitty gritty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, OVCChairman said: Reading that, there is still a good deal of guaranteed money, but $71 mil fully guaranteed in injury. The guarantee could still be $60 mil total.. but we won't know that for sure about a month and a half "$71 million of Smith's contract will be guaranteed for injury only" That sounds like its all injury based, I took that right from the NFL.com article. That would be hard to believe if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: You gotta be kidding me, its all injury guarantees and people are ****ing? Am I missing something? Why would Smith even do that? Same article mentioned that Smith will likely make $20-$25 million per year. Over two or three years provides about 50-75 million reasons for Smith to do the deal. I read another article that speculated the average value of the contract will be ~$23M per year including roster bonuses with a team option after year the second year of the extension (essentially a three year deal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Bonez3 said: Tag Kurt and even if he plays hardball, which he won't, he rides pine for year. hes not sacrificing a year at this stage of his career. We we will have multiple suitors for trade and the tag has no 'no trade clauses'. The power of tag gives team control over contract rights and players benefit from salary share. Its a no no brainer for me. Come March 14th the Skins would still be roughly 10 mil over the cap, not even counting potential cuts. fact is, you'd have 2 QBs under contract with obvious ammunition to trade one. this is an interesting theory....it's the true game of high risk, high reward. There is gonna be a market for KC for sure...Is Bruce ready to double down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, mistertim said: I'm not necessarily advocating for it, just saying that people who say "we have zero leverage" aren't exactly correct. Just depends on how far Bruce and Dan are willing to go and how bad they believe Kirk wants to go to Denver. Yep, Kirks been kicked out. No chance in hell he will want to sit here for a year behind Smith. He will have a preferred destination and he'll want the direct route into that team. Doesn't get that if we tag him without already sorting a trade deal out. Could still be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, JSSkinz said: "$71 million of Smith's contract will be guaranteed for injury only" That sounds like its all injury based, I took that right from the NFL.com article. That would be hard to believe if true. there has to be guaranteed money in there.. that can't mean that there is no guaranteed money outside of an injury promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said: Granted, Rodgers words weigh much more than Cowherds. But Rodgers and Smith are friends, I'd expect him to be rather nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: The tag plus Alex puts us over the cap as soon as the deal is signed. We either have to cut players or start restructuring deals to hold Kirk at that point. Why would anyone give us picks for a player we are going to be forced to cut? But we can delay Smith trade right? We can Chiefs tell. Let's wait one week to fill in all the paper work. So sign Kirk. Trade him and then trade Alex. Hypothetical Don't think it will happen because I don't see what anybody gains. Kirk won't get a better deal by getting traded then on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: there has to be guaranteed money in there.. that can't mean that there is no guaranteed money outside of an injury promise. I agree, Its an odd way to report a contract. When have we ever seen a QB or any players contract details released with only the injury guarantees mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Granted, Rodgers words weigh much more than Cowherds. But Rodgers and Smith are friends, I'd expect him to be rather nice. The Eagles head coach said he was pissed he had to play against Alex twice a season now. You can make of that what you will connecting the dots but it’s unusual to see a head coach say that about another teams player to me. Could be he believes beating Smith will be harder then beating Kirk. Alex does have his own fans for sure but again he left the 9ers and joined a 2 win team and took them to the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons. He isn’t a bad QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 23 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: He can sign the tag and then we are on the hook for his salary and Alex's salary. He can choose not to accept a trade until the trade deadline and we will be up **** creek without a paddle because we can't extend our guys, sign free agents or even sign our draft picks with both salaries on the books. He will eventually take the trade but only after a 4 month long f you tour of DC. That is the risk. Why are people under the impression he can 'choose not to accept trade'. It's a transition tag. the risk is on the team accepting Cousins, that he won't sign LTD. Which simply won't happen with a team interested in a trade. Even in Keim's piece all he can say is the Redskins biggest risk is he'd be under contract until a trade occurred. A trade would occur in about 48 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, wilco_holland said: But we can delay Smith trade right? We can Chiefs tell. Let's wait one week to fill in all the paper work. So sign Kirk. Trade him and then trade Alex. Hypothetical Don't think it will happen because I don't see what anybody gains. Kirk won't get a better deal by getting traded then on the open market. Not sure that works as part of the reason the Chiefs wanted the deal now is that they are over the cap with Alex on the books and so can't do anything themselves in Free Agency, doubt they would accommodate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Just now, JSSkinz said: I agree, Its an odd way to report a contract. When have we ever seen a QB or any players contract details released with only the injury guarantees mentioned? any time the agent and / or media wants to inflate the value of the deal. How many times do you hear "4 year, $94 million contract" but then looking at it, the incentive requirements are impossible to attain. They have a $200,000 bonus each year for being super bowl mvp, and they get $1,000,000 if they complete 90% of their passes in games during a full moon on thursday nights while wearing red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Opposing view of the trade from Gregg Rosenthal: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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