XFL To Return In 2020

[Mr. Sinister]

21 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I still watch the NBA, but it would be nice to have a good version of football to carry us into the spring.    

 

I highly doubt this will be a good version of football

 

[Cooked Crack]

36 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

They absolutely should go for Colin Keaepernick too.

Vince knows who he's trying to appeal to. Kaep is enemy number one to those folks.

[Mr. Sinister]

2 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

Vince knows who he's trying to appeal to. Kaep is enemy number one to those folks.

 

For the most part. The "No player with a criminal record" stuff also pretty much drives that home

[Cooked Crack]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

For the most part. The "No player with a criminal record" stuff also pretty much drives that home

"Disrespecting the flag and veterans" probably counts as a crime to them folks. I wonder if someone like Roethlisberger would be welcomed in the XFL. Would be interesting to see how real their no criminality stance is.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I highly doubt this will be a good version of football

 

 

Probably not, was more speculation if he improves on the product and actually makes it good/fun to watch this time around.

2 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

"Disrespecting the flag and veterans" probably counts as a crime to them folks. I wonder if someone like Roethlisberger would be welcomed in the XFL. Would be interesting to see how real their no criminality stance is.

 

From what I read he said criminal record and that included DUIs.  And when asked about Johnny Football he didn’t respond.  

 

 

[c slag]

Wonder if a team will play in RFK stadium or William Greene stadium from this XFL?

[MarkB452]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 11:00 AM, Cooked Crack said:

Vince knows who he's trying to appeal to. Kaep is enemy number one to those folks.

 

...could serve as a heel...maybe create a team that does not play any home games and they are the "bad guys" team of the league.  However, I can't see Kaep going for this though.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

41 minutes ago, MarkB452 said:

 

...could serve as a heel...maybe create a team that does not play any home games and they are the "bad guys" team of the league.  However, I can't see Kaep going for this though.

 

He already said no gimmicks and it's not affiliated in any way with WWE this time around.  He want's to put a better quality product out there, make less rules and faster games, basically listening to what current NFL fans want (complain about). 

 

As far as Vince's stance on all players standing for the anthem in his league, it shouldn't surprise anyone.  But, he is coming out and stating that they will stand or they won't play and that he just wants to offer a product/games where it's about the game and nothing else (personal protests) and no political statements.  Granted, him making the rule that all must stand is contradicting.  At the end of the day, I think it would have been best just to not have the anthem played at all, then there wouldn't be any potential protests in his new league.  

 

I think he's potentially treading on thin ice with that rule though.  Start up league, players won't be making that much compared to other jobs they could get. They could all bond together and an entire team take a knee.  But I could see a guy like Vince building that into each players contract, where it allows him to come out on top.  

 

While I personally respect both views (stand or sit/kneel), I just want a decent product out there.  Some good ole fashion form of football.  I imagine the players it might attract are college players right out of college that don't get drafted and possibly some older NFL players that have made their money and just want something to do, maybe some young NFL players tired of being on the practice squad (though they probably get paid better on the PS than in a startup league).

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I don't see why this couldn't successful in certain places. There are LARGE swaths of the country where the NFL does not dominate because of lack of market appeal. Huge parts of south and midwest where NCAA dominates because the nearest NFL team is so damn far away. If you can get teams in these smaller markets while capitalizing on their graduating talent that doesn't make it pro, and simultaneously pilfer good high school talent from going to college, it could get at least pretty interesting. Not talking about making the NFL go bankrupt, but you could have a viable league playing in the South and Midwest with B rate talent I think. 

[Cooked Crack]

Someone needs to ban this guy from an upstanding league like the XFL.

[Warhead36]

A rapist became President. Won't affect Vinny Mac at all.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

2 hours ago, Vilandil Tasardur said:

I don't see why this couldn't successful in certain places. There are LARGE swaths of the country where the NFL does not dominate because of lack of market appeal. Huge parts of south and midwest where NCAA dominates because the nearest NFL team is so damn far away. If you can get teams in these smaller markets while capitalizing on their graduating talent that doesn't make it pro, and simultaneously pilfer good high school talent from going to college, it could get at least pretty interesting. Not talking about making the NFL go bankrupt, but you could have a viable league playing in the South and Midwest with B rate talent I think. 

 

It's possible.  The original cities were Birmingham (AL), Chicago (IL), NY/NJ, Orlando (FL), Las Vegas (NV), Los Angeles (CA), Memphis (TN).San Fran (CA).  But the lowest average attendance per game was in Birmingham, Memphis and Chicago.  I read that percentage wise (think it was stadium capacity), Orlando was one of the most successful cities and they said they are interested again.  

 

I doubt he goes back to Chicago, Memphis or Birmingham.  LA just got two teams, Vegas will have the Raiders there in 2020.  I can't imagine him not having a team in the northeast (NY, NJ, CT, etc.).  Then that leaves San Fran from the original teams, which had the highest average per game attendance of all 8 teams.  My guess is he will go back to Orlando, San Fran and NY/NJ, then five other new cities.  

 

If he keeps it 4 teams on/near the east coast and 4 on the west coast, perhaps these locations:

 

East - NY/NJ, Orlando, West Virginia, Arkansas or Missouri 

West - San Fran, Oregon, Utah, San Diego

 

West will be harder to do, imo.  With the Chargers gone, that might be a good destination.  He might still go for Vegas too.  Not sure about Oregon/Utah if that would even work.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

5 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

It's possible.  The original cities were Birmingham (AL), Chicago (IL), NY/NJ, Orlando (FL), Las Vegas (NV), Los Angeles (CA), Memphis (TN).San Fran (CA).  But the lowest average attendance per game was in Birmingham, Memphis and Chicago.  I read that percentage wise (think it was stadium capacity), Orlando was one of the most successful cities and they said they are interested again.  

 

I doubt he goes back to Chicago, Memphis or Birmingham.  LA just got two teams, Vegas will have the Raiders there in 2020.  I can't imagine him not having a team in the northeast (NY, NJ, CT, etc.).  Then that leaves San Fran from the original teams, which had the highest average per game attendance of all 8 teams.  My guess is he will go back to Orlando, San Fran and NY/NJ, then five other new cities.  

 

If he keeps it 4 teams on/near the east coast and 4 on the west coast, perhaps these locations:

 

East - NY/NJ, Orlando, West Virginia, Arkansas or Missouri 

West - San Fran, Oregon, Utah, San Diego

 

West will be harder to do, imo.  With the Chargers gone, that might be a good destination.  He might still go for Vegas too.  Not sure about Oregon/Utah if that would even work.

I definitely think a team in Morgantown and Salt Lake City could do well. Oklahoma City may even be able to support a team. 

[justice98]

On 1/27/2018 at 11:02 AM, Mr. Sinister said:

 

For the most part. The "No player with a criminal record" stuff also pretty much drives that home

 

I'm amazed that he would box himself in like that so early in the game.  He did that a few times where he had some stipulation that potentially limited the pool of talent unnecessarily for a league that needs all the talent it can get.

It's not often you see a major sports venture fail, then the mastermind says  "screw it, let's do it again".

[Passepartout]

It was a flop then. Why would it be a success the second time around? We did that with the USFL and in the NFL Europe among others. They folded very quickly it seems.

[PokerPacker]

2 hours ago, Passepartout said:

It was a flop then. Why would it be a success the second time around? We did that with the USFL and in the NFL Europe among others. They folded very quickly it seems.

Rocky lost the first time he fought Apollo Creed.  Offered a rematch, Rocky said "nah, it was a flop the first time around, why would I succeed now?"  And then they never made another movie about him ever again because he was a loser.

[Springfield]

4 hours ago, PokerPacker said:

Rocky lost the first time he fought Apollo Creed.  Offered a rematch, Rocky said "nah, it was a flop the first time around, why would I succeed now?"  And then they never made another movie about him ever again because he was a loser.

 

Would have been more realistic...

[redskinss]

On 1/25/2018 at 12:57 PM, PleaseBlitz said:

The XFL should actively encourage gambling and somehow incentivize teams to beat the spread.  In fact, the final spread should be determined prior to kickoff, and the beginning score should reflect that.  For example, if the spread is 3, the game starts with the underdog having a 3 point lead.  

 

 It should also require teams to be forthcoming with injury information for fantasy football purposes. 

Anybody who's ever played in leagues with handicaps knows that this would get ugly fast.

Imagine the sandbagging that would occur to keep your spread disadvantage to a minimum. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Should have done this in the beginning, but added a poll to see how long everyone thinks the new XFL will last.  Me personally, I'm going to give it two seasons.  I think it will be slightly better than the former and better thought out just enough to earn a second season.  Or Vince's ego will jump in even after a poor season 1 and push it one more to see if it will stick since it's now a solo project for him.

[Ron78]

On 1/26/2018 at 9:47 PM, Redskin4ever said:

The only way the XFL succeeds is if they can get the best talent. All the rest of this is for show trying to get ratings. The first time they tried the anything goes route, now it sounds like they are trying to go the opposite direction to control who can do what. I don't expect that to work either. I do expect the biggest benefactor to be the NFL, which will learn which things work and which things don't. They will learn things the fans like and don't like. Then they will incorporate those changes into the NFL. 

 

I do wonder how adding more football will help with the biggest problem, which is over-saturation.

 

That is just not possible though.  The NFL has the vast majority of the "best talent" locked up in multi-year contracts.  Getting big names to sign contracts in the XFL will take years of competition.  Vince is going to have to fill out the majority of his rosters with unsigned free agents .  The biggest benefit to having the first game of the season the weekend after the Superbowl is that by the time the NFL post-season starts it is crystal clear what free agents have not garnered interest from the NFL, and Vince can sign most of them for their rock bottom value.

[Ron78]

On 1/31/2018 at 11:37 AM, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Should have done this in the beginning, but added a poll to see how long everyone thinks the new XFL will last.  Me personally, I'm going to give it two seasons.  I think it will be slightly better than the former and better thought out just enough to earn a second season.  Or Vince's ego will jump in even after a poor season 1 and push it one more to see if it will stick since it's now a solo project for him.

 

One thing worth noting is that Oliver Luck's contract is multi-year for a guaranteed $20 million, so I think that does speak to Vince's intention to commit for a longer term than one season:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-oliver-luck-getting-20-million-guaranteed-from-the-xfl/

[PokerPacker]

This could be where the rookie wage scale bites the NFL in the ass.  If the XFL can manage to pay some fresh rookies decent money, they may opt for the XFL over the NFL.  Could also be interesting to see if they'll bring in kids too young for the NFL and offer them paychecks while the NCAA offers them diddly.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

15 hours ago, Ron78 said:

 

One thing worth noting is that Oliver Luck's contract is multi-year for a guaranteed $20 million, so I think that does speak to Vince's intention to commit for a longer term than one season:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-oliver-luck-getting-20-million-guaranteed-from-the-xfl/

 

It most likely will last at least two seasons this time around.  Vince is tweaking the entire model so it's more successful than the original XFL was.  But after looking at the Alliance of American Football, which launches in 2019 after the Super Bowl, I really think they may roll out the better product and be more successful.  

 

While Vince is committing a lot of money this time around and obviously serious about making it work (instead of relying on gimmicks that stopped working first time around), the AAF has a vision too (from the article I read), basically said low expectations year one, but they have a 7-10 year plan.  I know you mentioned in the AAF thread about the smaller markets and advertising, etc. and why you think that will make it rough for the AFL.  But at this point, we know nothing about where the XFL teams will be playing, coaching, rule changes, etc.  

 

Vince is being all clock and dagger with a lot of details, giving vague responses.  There isn't any talk about not putting teams in smaller markets again, nor larger markets either.  And last time, Vince had a mix of major markets and small markets.  Look at the average attendance for each team/market:

 

Team	Stadium	Capacity	Avg. Att.	Avg.% Filled
San Francisco Demons	Pacific Bell Park	41,059	35,005	85%
New York/New Jersey Hitmen	Giants Stadium	80,242	28,309	35%
Orlando Rage	Citrus Bowl	36,000	25,563	71%
Los Angeles Xtreme	Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum	92,000	22,679	25%
Las Vegas Outlaws	Sam Boyd Stadium	36,800	22,618	61%
Memphis Maniax	Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium	62,921	20,396	32%
Birmingham Thunderbolts	Legion Field	83,091	17,002	20%
Chicago Enforcers	Soldier Field	55,701	15,710	28%

 

Look at the AAF teams/cities and stadium capacity:

 

Club	City	Stadium	Capacity	First season	Head coach
Alliance of American Football
Alliance Atlanta	Atlanta, Georgia	Georgia State Stadium	24,333	2019	Brad Childress[6]
Alliance Birmingham	Birmingham, Alabama	Legion Field	71,594		Tim Lewis[7]
Alliance Memphis	Memphis, Tennessee	Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium	58,207		Mike Singletary[8]
Alliance Orlando	Orlando, Florida	Spectrum Stadium	44,206		Steve Spurrier[3]
Alliance Phoenix	Tempe, Arizona	Sun Devil Stadium	57,078		Rick Neuheisel[9]
Alliance Salt Lake	Salt Lake City, Utah	Rice Eccles Stadium	45,807		Dennis Erickson[10]
Alliance San Diego	San Diego, California	SDCCU Stadium	70,561		Mike Martz[11]

 

 

Lot's of similarities with the XFL's first go round.  But the XFL's most success was in Orlando, Las Vegas and San Francisco.  Orlando makes sense, sunny Florida, lot's of tourists, high traffic area.  So did Las Vegas, no professional sports team at the time, with tons of tourists.  San Francisco kind of shocked me, given the 49ers, Giants, but if you look at the stadium capacity, it was only 41K.  

 

Looking at the cities the AAF picked, with today's technologies, I'm not so sure that they need the large markets to be successful.  If the quality of the product on the field is really good, people will watch.  Companies will start wanting to advertise, etc. etc. etc.  I think jumping in San Diego was a great move, since the Chargers left.  SLC, could be hit or miss, but not a lot going on out there and it's a smaller stadium.  Phoenix, another good choice imo.  Orlando will sell tickets.  The smallest stadium is the city with the biggest market, with only 24K, they might actually come close to selling out some games.

 

Memphis and Birmingham might be concerns, but was the original XFL's lack of success there because it's in markets nobody cares about watching games?  Or was it because of the horrible product and gimmicks on the field?  Both?

 

 

[Ron78]

7 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

It most likely will last at least two seasons this time around.  Vince is tweaking the entire model so it's more successful than the original XFL was.  But after looking at the Alliance of American Football, which launches in 2019 after the Super Bowl, I really think they may roll out the better product and be more successful.  

 

While Vince is committing a lot of money this time around and obviously serious about making it work (instead of relying on gimmicks that stopped working first time around), the AAF has a vision too (from the article I read), basically said low expectations year one, but they have a 7-10 year plan.  I know you mentioned in the AAF thread about the smaller markets and advertising, etc. and why you think that will make it rough for the AFL.  But at this point, we know nothing about where the XFL teams will be playing, coaching, rule changes, etc.  

 

Vince is being all clock and dagger with a lot of details, giving vague responses.  There isn't any talk about not putting teams in smaller markets again, nor larger markets either.  And last time, Vince had a mix of major markets and small markets.  Look at the average attendance for each team/market:

 

Team	Stadium	Capacity	Avg. Att.	Avg.% Filled
San Francisco Demons	Pacific Bell Park	41,059	35,005	85%
New York/New Jersey Hitmen	Giants Stadium	80,242	28,309	35%
Orlando Rage	Citrus Bowl	36,000	25,563	71%
Los Angeles Xtreme	Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum	92,000	22,679	25%
Las Vegas Outlaws	Sam Boyd Stadium	36,800	22,618	61%
Memphis Maniax	Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium	62,921	20,396	32%
Birmingham Thunderbolts	Legion Field	83,091	17,002	20%
Chicago Enforcers	Soldier Field	55,701	15,710	28%

 

Look at the AAF teams/cities and stadium capacity:

 

Club	City	Stadium	Capacity	First season	Head coach
Alliance of American Football
Alliance Atlanta	Atlanta, Georgia	Georgia State Stadium	24,333	2019	Brad Childress[6]
Alliance Birmingham	Birmingham, Alabama	Legion Field	71,594		Tim Lewis[7]
Alliance Memphis	Memphis, Tennessee	Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium	58,207		Mike Singletary[8]
Alliance Orlando	Orlando, Florida	Spectrum Stadium	44,206		Steve Spurrier[3]
Alliance Phoenix	Tempe, Arizona	Sun Devil Stadium	57,078		Rick Neuheisel[9]
Alliance Salt Lake	Salt Lake City, Utah	Rice Eccles Stadium	45,807		Dennis Erickson[10]
Alliance San Diego	San Diego, California	SDCCU Stadium	70,561		Mike Martz[11]

 

 

Lot's of similarities with the XFL's first go round.  But the XFL's most success was in Orlando, Las Vegas and San Francisco.  Orlando makes sense, sunny Florida, lot's of tourists, high traffic area.  So did Las Vegas, no professional sports team at the time, with tons of tourists.  San Francisco kind of shocked me, given the 49ers, Giants, but if you look at the stadium capacity, it was only 41K.  

 

Looking at the cities the AAF picked, with today's technologies, I'm not so sure that they need the large markets to be successful.  If the quality of the product on the field is really good, people will watch.  Companies will start wanting to advertise, etc. etc. etc.  I think jumping in San Diego was a great move, since the Chargers left.  SLC, could be hit or miss, but not a lot going on out there and it's a smaller stadium.  Phoenix, another good choice imo.  Orlando will sell tickets.  The smallest stadium is the city with the biggest market, with only 24K, they might actually come close to selling out some games.

 

Memphis and Birmingham might be concerns, but was the original XFL's lack of success there because it's in markets nobody cares about watching games?  Or was it because of the horrible product and gimmicks on the field?  Both?

 

 

 

Vince has tweaked things in such away that hopefully minimizes loses, but another important difference this time is that he seems fully prepared to lose money in the early going.  There is no way a start up sports league is going to be profitable in its first season.  Major League Soccer was losing money for more than a decade after its inception, but the owners were committed to growing the sport anyway.  The NFL has been around for close to 100 years, and it certainly didn't become a juggernaut in its first season.  It takes years to build a brand.

 

I am not as confident that putting a decent product on the field will make a difference as far as the advertising revenue is concerned.  People tend to become vested in sports teams that are in their own community, and the major markets have the highest revenue potential.  The UFL, which started in 2008, had decent players and coaches.  But, when they moved out of NYC and San Francisco and into just those secondary markets, they lost their TV contracts.  A professional sports league isn't profitable without a TV contract.  Stadium attendance represents a much, much smaller cut of a professional sports team's potential revenue.

 

The XFL website does say in its FAQ's section that both "major" and "mid-major" markets are under consideration, but considering the AAF has already claimed many of the best "mid-major" markets, I think it would be best for the XFL to avoid them or else they will be competing with the AAF for a smaller pot of gold in those places.  The XFL should primarily look for major markets that might have room for a team.  RFK for example currently has no tenets, so I think that would be a really good landing spot for an XFL team in a top ten media market.  Oakland and St. Louis should be considerations if the AAF does not put it's eighth team in either of those places.  San Antonio, Sacramento, or Hartford might be good secondary market considerations, but otherwise I would be looking at NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly, etc. 

 

I don't think Birmingham did very well for the XFL because the team was putrid.  It was the worst in the league.  They had no offensive line, and the quarterback kept getting killed.

 

I guess we will see what happens soon.

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

Starter Jackets making a comeback