Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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On 5/1/2019 at 11:47 AM, goskins10 said:

Had nothing to add just glad for the TSO sighting!    

 

 

Well, you and like maaaaaaybe two other posters! 😛 

 

On 5/1/2019 at 11:47 AM, goskins10 said:

 

I do agree with your points. I guess I will add one minor thing in support - in terms of resources you could argue they spent a third rd draft pick on the QB since they took one of Haskins primary targets from Ohio State in McLaurin and someone that was a leader on their offense. 

 

Great point, as usual from you. :) 

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18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The only time we've had a little consistent success was arguably when the passing game relatively speaking was doing well (2015-2016) and shocker it was our only run under Dan for 2 winning seasons (albeit barely) in a row.    But we are back to square one.     And I am not just talking QB.   We've had almost equal bad play at receiver.   The peak on that front was that same 2 years -- Crowder, Garcon, D. Jax.     If I recall NFL.com one year ranked our WR crew in the top 5 of the league or close to it.  Now they ranked us 2nd to last.

 

Fixing QB and to a lesser extent receiver would be a boon -- and would be unique for the Dan era

 

Spot on, and this is what I largely mean when I say “sound FO”. Basically, the organization won't always be bumbling about structurally and/or philosophically, changing its ways at its very core (which makes them act in a reactionary manner versus being proactive). It would have a steady strategy with regards to acquiring player personnel, how they fit in with each other, and it would know what kind of coach to bring in for that, giving him an environment with the highest likelihood of success.

 

You don’t ever want to be set up at a position or phase and then just lose it all almost over night. There are rare exceptions if/when you decide to emphasize something more important, maybe because that’s what is available during that offseason or you’re answering/getting ahead of some new concept/cycle occurring in the NFL. 

 

But then you’d be trading one strength for another. Not simply nullifying a strength and leaving it at that. Especially when your HC is really good at maximizing said strength. 

 

It’s definitely not easy as you’re juggling the cap and limited resources while you attempt to do all this, and you don’t ever just want to totally ignore other positions or phases and only focus on strengths, but that’s what Execs/GMs get paid to do. And the NFL is set up for everyone to be on a level playing field. 

 

One of my biggest problems with how the organization has operated is how they essentially punish staff members, or players for that matter, when they excel at something. So instead of allowing them to thrive at what they’re good at, they essentially say, “well, you’re good at this so we don’t need to help you there, let’s give you trash to work with now or put trash around you, you’ll be fine, you always figure it out”.

 

And, sure, they might get by. They might be ok. But they never get to really thrive, either, do they? They never get to just dominate at that specific aspect or phase or position.  

 

When Doug mentioned, some time last year, how, “Jay’s offense always produces a 4,000 yard passer, no worries”, or something like that I damn near had an heart attack. :ols: 

 

Or when the question was posed to Jay about the Dline and he said something like Tomsula will make a NT (he’s not in charge of personnel decisions, so he’s just repeating the company line there). As good as Tomsula is, once Allen went out with injury in 2017 that Dline completely fell apart. They couldn’t stop the run to save their lives.

 

Don’t punish people because they’re good at their jobs. Let them thrive. Reward them instead. Expend more resources and emphasize the areas they’re good at so they can dominate at it. Otherwise you’re essentially forcing a team-building philosophy of just being average everywhere. It’s like the thinking is when someone does good or some phase is strong on the team? Welp, don’t worry about that part, it’s fine, let’s focus here now! 

 

Which is why it was great when we not only brought in Callahan, but drafted Scherff with our top pick to go along with all the significant resources we’d already expended at the Oline. Which is why it was good that we drafted Allen and Payne for Tomsula back to back and are allowing them to be a real strength of the team (though one can question whether or not the ideal would’ve been to trade for/acquire via FA a legit interior Dlineman and then pick a guy like James if it’s true that they forced the Payne pick a little bit... but that all goes back to resource management, so I digress). 

 

But yeah, it’s an absolute travesty just how far we’ve fallen in terms of offensive personnel, specifically with regards to the passing game, since those days. It’s unacceptable just how many steps we took backwards there. 

 

Haskins is going to need a lot more from the FO than what has been provided since then if he’s going to succeed. Like @goskins10 mentioned, drafting McLaurin is a good sign they understand that. Just has to actually pan out, but the idea is right. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

Criterion 3 will depend on Jay’s status with the team. The timing is off here, as he’s entering his second to last year on his contract and it’s unlikely he’ll coach without an extension. If it were up to me I’d extend his contract one more year right now to ensure he has, at least, through 2020 to allow Haskins to develop under him. The fear could be that Jay simply doesn’t care about Haskins’ development if he knows he’s a dead coach walking, but Jay for all intents and purposes has proven to be a good guy and a good soldier, even when he doesn’t get what he wants... so it’s doubtful he’ll be an hindrance. 

 

I agree with you here. Here's the thing, Haskins and Jay are now hand in hand. Haskins needs stability at least for the first 2, preferably 3 years he's here. Firing Jay before the next 3 years is a bad move and will only put Haskins' development behind. The team needs to stay true and be patient for a little while here to possibly harbor long-term success, which has never happened under Snyder. What could go wrong? 😂

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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Just now, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Here's the thing, Haskins and Jay are now hand in hand. Haskins needs stability at least for the first 2, preferably 3 years he's here. Firing Jay before the next 3 years is a bad move and will only put Haskins' development behind. The team needs to stay true and be patient for a little while here to possibly harbor long-term success, which has never happened under Snyder. What could go wrong? 😂

 

Yup, that’s the ideal.

 

If your plan was to spend big in the draft to get a QB to develop as the franchise guy, then you should’ve either extended the coach you want him developing under or fired him and chosen said coach. 

 

The timing is definitely off here, which isn’t anything new for Dan’s organizational habits, but there are ways to overcome it. Like I said, the best thing going for us is that Jay’s offensive teachings will be applicable to the vast majority of offense’s in the NFL. It’s extremely unlikely Haskins will be learning different footwork, progressions, and general route concepts from someone else they hire. 

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Ok, this is most likely just me complaining - I get that. But am I the only one who has noticed that since we seem to be getting good comments from how the draft went, Bruce is doing a victory lap? 

 

I have seen him on more show this week than the last 9 years!  I liked the draft - not the buggiest Haskins fan but that is growing on me and the rest of the draft was solid at least, getting Sweat was awesome. Not to sound trite but they have not played a down yet and Bruce is doing his version of an Irish jig in celebration! 

 

Easy now big guy! Let's win something before getting too far ahead of yourself. 

 

Ok, rant over. 

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4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Ok, this is most likely just me complaining - I get that. But am I the only one who has noticed that since we seem to be getting good comments from how the draft went, Bruce is doing a victory lap? 

 

 

 

Shouldn't shock you. The guy is a spin master for better or worse.

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1 minute ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Yup, that’s the ideal.

 

If your plan was to spend big in the draft to get a QB to develop as the franchise guy, then you should’ve either extended the coach you want him developing under or fired him and chosen said coach. 

 

The timing is definitely off here, which isn’t anything new for Dan’s organizational habits, but there are ways to overcome it. Like I said, the best thing going for us is that Jay’s offensive teachings will be applicable to the vast majority of offense’s in the NFL. It’s extremely unlikely Haskins will be learning different footwork, progressions, and general route concepts from someone else they hire. 

 

It's off because I'm sure Jay is feeling the heat. The reason he wants a veteran QB is probably so the team wouldn't be forced to start a rookie and it bring the season down, making his seat even hotter. I also think Jay should have been extended as a bode of confidence towards him and not create unneeded pressure. 

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Shouldn't shock you. The guy is a spin master for better or worse.

 

No surprised at all. Just kind of pisses me off. I want him to STFU until he does something that provides results. But again, it was just a rant. Not meant to make any real point other than to blow off steam about bruce.   🙂  

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6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Ok, this is most likely just me complaining - I get that. But am I the only one who has noticed that since we seem to be getting good comments from how the draft went, Bruce is doing a victory lap? 

 

I have seen him on more show this week than the last 9 years!  I liked the draft - not the buggiest Haskins fan but that is growing on me and the rest of the draft was solid at least, getting Sweat was awesome. Not to sound trite but they have not played a down yet and Bruce is doing his version of an Irish jig in celebration! 

 

Easy now big guy! Let's win something before getting too far ahead of yourself. 

 

Ok, rant over. 

 

Not complaining, this is the truth. Honestly I can't trust a dude that looks like he's about to laugh before everything he has to say. 

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Just now, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

It's off because I'm sure Jay is feeling the heat. The reason he wants a veteran QB is probably so the team wouldn't be forced to start a rookie and it bring the season down, making his seat even hotter. I also think Jay should have been extended as a bode of confidence towards him and not create unneeded pressure. 

 

Yeah, that’s the fear. Like I mentioned, there’s even the issue of Jay possibly knowing he’s a goner, which would mean he has no investment in developing Haskins. Which would be a travesty, as I do believe Jay can do a lot of good for Haskins and is an asset in terms of developing QBs. 

 

I just don’t see Jay being like that, even if he feels that way. He enjoys coaching young guys, is a good guy himself who gets along with most people, and even when justified hasn’t shown open insubordination. I think he’ll just coach Haskins like he would if he knew he was here long term. 

 

But that is a legit concern to have. And Jay wouldn’t even be in the wrong if he sees that developing Haskins might take time he doesn’t have and, therefore, as secondary to him just focusing on coaching the best group they assembled for him to “win now”. 

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2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

No surprised at all. Just kind of pisses me off. I want him to STFU until he does something that provides results. But again, it was just a rant. Not meant to make any real point other than to blow off steam about bruce.   🙂  

 

HEY! YOU PUT SOME RESPEK ON HIS NAME AND CAPITALIZE THAT ****.

 

I typically just don't listen to a word he says.

 

Works out well for me. :ols:

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3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Shouldn't shock you. The guy is a spin master for better or worse.

 

Except the quote you're responding to resolutely disproves the notion.   In fact Bruce rarely speaks.   Didn't the post have an article where they listed it being like 577 days since he had a presser or something?   In fact he doesn't spin at all.    No one hears him say anything.    The presser he took last was when he promoted Doug and said, "Here's your guy," basically.   Allen is kind of known as being generally unavailable to the media and is one of the least chatty execs in the NFL.   How does that make him a spin master?   I'd argue one of our biggest issues is how little they bother to explain moves.   It's the lack of transparency, not the spin, that has typically bothered fans.   Isn't that right?

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1 minute ago, Art said:

 

Except the quote you're responding to resolutely disproves the notion.   In fact Bruce rarely speaks.   Didn't the post have an article where they listed it being like 577 days since he had a presser or something?   In fact he doesn't spin at all.    No one hears him say anything.    The presser he took last was when he promoted Doug and said, "Here's your guy," basically.   Allen is kind of known as being generally unavailable to the media and is one of the least chatty execs in the NFL.   How does that make him a spin master?   I'd argue one of our biggest issues is how little they bother to explain moves.   It's the lack of transparency, not the spin, that has typically bothered fans.   Isn't that right?

 

Actually, no. I don't believe it to be.

 

He speaks when the spin is in his favor and doesn't when it's not. 

 

What his motive is I won't pretend to know. Because, quite frankly, I'm not there daily. But he stays quiet in times where the fanbase needs him to speak and shows his face, like the example above, when things are good. It's a smart play on his part, really.

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Actually, no. I don't believe it to be.

 

He speaks when the spin is in his favor and doesn't when it's not. 

 

What his motive is I won't pretend to know. Because, quite frankly, I'm not there daily. But he stays quiet in times where the fanbase needs him to speak and shows his face, like the example above, when things are good. It's a smart play on his part, really.

 

The two national interviews he's done since the draft likely have more to do with the fact the Redskins have generally been regarded as having the best draft in the NFL this year, which is a first I believe.   As such NFL media want to talk to the team.   I'm perfectly fine with him talking or sending out Doug or Jay too.   I haven't really read much into this other than he was asked to talk as he is the guy who ultimately decides our picks and the leader of the war room and draft day stuff.   I suppose I don't care if he talks or when he does enough to hold it against him he took a couple of post-draft talks.   I'll say if we suddenly start to get real good and he's out there chatty every week it's clearly a sign of happy to chat when good, not when bad syndrome.   I just don't think we're there yet.   He basically doesn't talk.   I suspect that'll be basically who he is until he's not here any longer.

 

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Somebody said that scouting contracts expire in May.

Does that include Kyle Smith, since I believe he's technically above a scout, if I'm not mistaken.

If so, do we need to hurry and lock him up, now that it's May ?

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10 hours ago, mh86 said:

 

Probably to give credit where it was due and not to someone (Bruce) who probably had nothing to do with it

 

Only thing is, Bruce mentions him as well. Skins have also put out an "interview" video with him. And Russini said that Kyle Smith was a big name and enormous part of the front office.

 

Not surprised, though...the Skins suck at everything else, of course they would also suck at keeping Kyle a secret lol...

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1 hour ago, Art said:

 

Except the quote you're responding to resolutely disproves the notion.   In fact Bruce rarely speaks.   Didn't the post have an article where they listed it being like 577 days since he had a presser or something?   In fact he doesn't spin at all.    No one hears him say anything.    The presser he took last was when he promoted Doug and said, "Here's your guy," basically.   Allen is kind of known as being generally unavailable to the media and is one of the least chatty execs in the NFL.   How does that make him a spin master?   I'd argue one of our biggest issues is how little they bother to explain moves.   It's the lack of transparency, not the spin, that has typically bothered fans.   Isn't that right?

 

The quote the guy responded to does absolutely not "resolutely disprove the notion."   The guy said in essence that Bruce Allen is a spin-master because he's doing a victory lap now that the Redskins appear to be receiving favorable national and local media attention.   That's totally accurate.  Yep, it's the lack of transparency that drives us all crazy, but it's the spin too.   It's the "we're close" when we're not.  It's the "we missed the playoffs by two games in 2017" when the truth is we missed the playoffs by three games.  That's spin.   Bruce Allen is a non-transparent spin-master.   

 

 

1 hour ago, Art said:

 

The two national interviews he's done since the draft likely have more to do with the fact the Redskins have generally been regarded as having the best draft in the NFL this year, which is a first I believe.   As such NFL media want to talk to the team.   I'm perfectly fine with him talking or sending out Doug or Jay too.   I haven't really read much into this other than he was asked to talk as he is the guy who ultimately decides our picks and the leader of the war room and draft day stuff.   I suppose I don't care if he talks or when he does enough to hold it against him he took a couple of post-draft talks.   I'll say if we suddenly start to get real good and he's out there chatty every week it's clearly a sign of happy to chat when good, not when bad syndrome.   I just don't think we're there yet.   He basically doesn't talk.   I suspect that'll be basically who he is until he's not here any longer.

 

 

What?  Is this statement meant to be taken seriously?  The media has wanted to talk to Bruce Allen for months and months, not just now!    Yes, I believe you're right that 577 days passed between the "harvest fest/winning off the field" debacle presser and the 15-minute gaggle in a nook and cranny behind a fence at the Senior Bowl ("we're close.")

 

Know when he didn't speak?  When the media, local and national, was outraged over the Reuben Foster signing.  Know what he did?  Threw Doug Williams out there, who was not only ill-prepared but has demonstrated no interest or ability in filling this role.  Trotted a Redskins hero in a difficult situation and the guy  out then had to apologize to the fans and his family.   Yep, Bruce Allen "is the guy who ultimately decides our picks" and our free agents, yet the silence from was deafening for 577 days.  How many games did we win during those 577 days?  Anything good happen during those two seasons?  Nope, not really.      

 

But here we are.   Finally the national media agrees the draft was good, and Bruce is on espn four days later.  It's so laughably predicable I can't believe anyone would attempt to defend it.  

 

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Posted (edited)

@Coach Janky Spanky To be a spin master one must, by definition, spin.   If one never speaks, one can't be a spin master.   Two 7 minute interviews later does not alter that fact, though as I continued in the response, it's possible he becomes an attention whore if we do better and that would be a negative sign.   As for the media wanting to talk to him for a while now, that's not really true.   The national media has had minimal interest.   The local media wants to talk to him, but he hasn't really embraced them, which you can expect, as they've misrepresented so much.    I do agree with you he would have been wise to speak and take credit for the Foster move as it was so good at the time and has worked out as he expected.   That was a mistake for sure.

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Bruce is definitely working the circuit but what I like about these interviews is that you don't hear him saying things like "I", everything out of his mouth has been humble and he is giving credit to those in our FO who deserve it. 

 

Lots of love to Doug, Kyle,  and the scouting staff.

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3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Ok, this is most likely just me complaining - I get that. But am I the only one who has noticed that since we seem to be getting good comments from how the draft went, Bruce is doing a victory lap? 

Absolutely, someone else had mentioned this.  Basically it's *team is getting negative attention* Bruce says, "hey Jay or Doug, go take the podium and explain it".  Then *team is getting positive attention* and Bruce says, "give me the microphone guys I'll take it from here".

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This is the type of tone-deaf **** that drives me crazy. Yes, there is more to the article than just the one line--but he's literally the worst owner in the NFL, and one of the worst in all of sports.

 

I understand people have met him and he wasn't a d-bag at that moment--but this is the arrogance that is just annoying. We are the only team to not win more than 10 games in 26 years--almost 27. How about you do it on the field.

 

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4 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

 

One of my biggest problems with how the organization has operated is how they essentially punish staff members, or players for that matter, when they excel at something. So instead of allowing them to thrive at what they’re good at, they essentially say, “well, you’re good at this so we don’t need to help you there, let’s give you trash to work with now or put trash around you, you’ll be fine, you always figure it out”.

 

And, sure, they might get by. They might be ok. But they never get to really thrive, either, do they? They never get to just dominate at that specific aspect or phase or position.  

 

When Doug mentioned, some time last year, how, “Jay’s offense always produces a 4,000 yard passer, no worries”, or something like that I damn near had an heart attack. :ols: 

 

 

 

Agree.  I've made similar points.  When we had a really good passing game in 2015-2016 it felt especially in retrospect that they took it for granted some.  The Jay turnkey passing system.  We heard it from some here on the board.  It's the system baby not so much the players.  And like you said Doug echoed that sentiment. 😀 And Bruce's comments to JP Finlay about yeah we lost Desean Jackson and Pierre Garcon but we got a lot of that production back in T. Pryor and Brian Quick.   All of that went really south.

 

We went quickly to having one of the better passing games in the league to one that ranges from bad to pathetic.   At the same time they rebuilt a pathetic D line into a really good one.  Now imagine having both a good passing game and a good D line? 

 

I get that its almost impossible to build a team that's strong everywhere.  But IMO if you have a team that does two things well -- pass the ball and rush the passer -- you'll be in the playoffs.  In Dan's tenure, we've never had both things at the same time.  And heck like I said we've never had a premier type pass rusher period on this team.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

This is the type of tone-deaf **** that drives me crazy. Yes, there is more to the article than just the one line--but he's literally the worst owner in the NFL, and one of the worst in all of sports.

 

I understand people have met him and he wasn't a d-bag at that moment--but this is the arrogance that is just annoying. We are the only team to not win more than 10 games in 26 years--almost 27. How about you do it on the field.

1

 

Why is 11 wins the measure and not 10? Both are double-digit wins.

 

I had asked this of someone earlier this year...but if the Skins had won 11 games in 2012 and 1999 instead of 10, would you feel any better right now about Snyder, Allen, and the direction of the franchise?

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1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

This is the type of tone-deaf **** that drives me crazy. Yes, there is more to the article than just the one line--but he's literally the worst owner in the NFL, and one of the worst in all of sports.

 

I understand people have met him and he wasn't a d-bag at that moment--but this is the arrogance that is just annoying. We are the only team to not win more than 10 games in 26 years--almost 27. How about you do it on the field.

 

 

Well, it's well understood I believe Snyder is among the best owners in any league because he does what I believe an owner is supposed to do.   Provide whatever his people tell them they need.   There are the nice stories few hear about him about providing the plane for someone to go to a sick relative, or visiting in the hospital, and it is fair to say Snyder is a players owner in that he does do his fair share of jockey sniffing.   As our owner, Snyder's sole responsibility is to do what he's asked to do by the people he's hired to try to win on the field.   In that he's apparently quite good.   I do not blame him that Spurrier failed.   I blame Spurrier.   I don't blame him Gibbs didn't rekindle more magic.   I blame Gibbs.  I don't blame him that Shanny sucked.    I blame Shanny.   I do blame him for Zorn as that was ridiculous, but for the most part, he's hired competent people and let them do their work.   We have mostly been a coach-run organization under his ownership, though that's changed in the Gruden years to be more a personnel driven organization.    If Haskins is a top 5 player, you'll think Snyder walks on water.   If he's not you'll continue to hate him.   I like him either way as I think he does what an owner is supposed to do.   Hire and get out the way other than to provide what they want of him.

Now, I'm also on the record as saying Snyder is a total prick, so I would say Bruce saying he cares about the fans is just a white lie.   Snyder cares about the fans such that he wants them to like the team he owns, but he's an ass.   He doesn't like us as people.   He's an elitist tool.   It's his biggest personal failing.   But I still think he owns how an owner should.   Hire and provide.

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Why is 11 wins the measure and not 10? Both are double-digit wins.

 

I had asked this of someone earlier this year...but if the Skins had won 11 games in 2012 and 1999 instead of 10, would you feel any better right now about Snyder, Allen, and the direction of the franchise?

 

I know this isn't directed at me but I'll give you my take.😀  If your point is Dan's era has deeper issues than not winning 11 games I agree.   Mind you the 1999 team he mostly inherited. 


 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/executives/SnydDa0.htm

Team Results

 
  • Glossary
Year Tm Lg Job Title W L T W-L% W plyf L plyf Playoff Result
  Total   20 Years 139 180 1   2 5
1999 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 10 6 0 .625 1 1 Lost Div
2000 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 8 8 0 .500 0 0  
2001 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 8 8 0 .500 0 0  
2002 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 7 9 0 .438 0 0  
2003 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 5 11 0 .313 0 0  
2004 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 6 10 0 .375 0 0  
2005 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 10 6 0 .625 1 1 Lost Div
2006 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 5 11 0 .313 0 0  
2007 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 9 7 0 .563 0 1 Lost WC
2008 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 8 8 0 .500 0 0  
2009 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 4 12 0 .250 0 0  
2010 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 6 10 0 .375 0 0  
2011 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 5 11 0 .313 0 0  
2012 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 10 6 0 .625 0 1 Lost WC
2013 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 3 13 0 .188 0 0  
2014 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 4 12 0 .250 0 0  
2015 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 9 7 0 .563 0 1 Lost WC
2016 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 8 7 1 .531 0 0  
2017 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 7 9 0 .438 0 0  
2018 Washington Redskins NFL Principal Owner 7 9 0 .438      
Edited by Skinsinparadise

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