Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[SWFLSkins]

 

I am  moving back into the Sell column. The three runs to finish a game is coaching scared. Not only that the clock mgt. all year has not been stellar. If he hasn't learned now will he ever? I can't see him ever winning in the playoffs when the teams are better and the coaching is better. I hope to be wrong. But I have to be real with what I am seeing on the field. His feel for when the momentum has swung against him is non-existent.

 

How do you continue not attacking stacked boxes on first downs? Especially when the game has gotten tight. 

 

How can you continue to throw the ball deep when it is clear your QB was not on? 

 

Where has the two TE set gone that opened up the WR routes once teams over committed to stopping the TE's and Thompson underneath. 

 

The Defense is doing it's part, I think Jay is now exposed for the Team manager he isn't. Great O play design, implemented poorly is not going to sustain success. 

 

 

What say you? Wolf of Washington in full on Bear mode, or Buy, Buy, Buy and invest hoping this pays dividends long term? 

[NickyJ]

For the moment, I've got to pass. Offensive play has been somewhat underwhelming, with a few shining moments mixed in. We had the Chiefs on the ropes and let them past, we let our defense do most of the heavy lifting in the Raiders game, and we're anemic the rest of the time. I don't care if the 49ers have done okay in other games, we nearly let a rookie QB come off the bench and whip us in our own stadium.

 

Gruden has his shining moments, but he has some dumb ones too. As for the third down run to ice the game, I took that as a more of a damned if you do, damned if you don't moment. If we pass and don't get the first down, that's another 40 seconds of dink and dunk that our defense was folding under. With the run, hard to imagine picking up six yards when everyone knows it's coming.

[thebeermonkey]

He's mediocre and often inconsistent in play calling and preparation. I think he is what he is and won't get much better.

[lavar1156]

I want to love Jay. But he does stupid crap too often. 

[SWFLSkins]

2016 thread link...... 

 

 

[Birdlives]

Coming from someone who is on record as not wanting Jay in the first place, and has called for his firing every year since, including year one, I'm buying Jay. I'm starting to realize good head coaches are like quarterbacks. There aren't actually 32 on earth. At least Jay has some versatility and isn't completely horrible. That might be the HC version of "good".

[SWFLSkins]

 

[Bang]

I do not understand that timeout.. i really don't. No matter how many ways i try to see it, it's just the dumbest damn thing that could have been done.

Luckily we survived it thanks to the young'ns in the secondary making plays..  but damn,, that time out made NO SENSE AT ALL.

that's not even a "rookie coach" mistake.. it's a 'what the **** am i doing" mistake... and he should be well beyond that,, There is NO ONE on that sideline who doesn't see this and talk him out of it?

 

~Bang

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, Bang said:

I do not understand that timeout.. i really don't. No matter how many ways i try to see it, it's just the dumbest damn thing that could have been done.

Luckily we survived it thanks to the young'ns in the secondary making plays..  but damn,, that time out made NO SENSE AT ALL.

that's not even a "rookie coach" mistake.. it's a 'what the **** am i doing" mistake... and he should be well beyond that,, There is NO ONE on that sideline who doesn't see this and talk him out of it?

 

~Bang

That was so mind-blowingly bad it amazed even me, a guy who thinks little of Gruden's decision making to begin with. You're watching, realizing we are about to get a delay of game to help us out, and Jay bails them out. Astounding.

[JSSkinz]

I agree we should have been more aggressive on that last set of downs, who cares if you run the clock down when the other team has a full minute to go 50 yards to get in FG range.  All we did is make it easy on them.

 

Other than that I don't have an issue with Jay, I think he's making a serious effort to run the ball more because he knows we lack cohesion in the passing game.

 

 

Reed and Crowder have disappeared and Ryan Grant has become our most stable WR (Non RB), its a scary time for our offense, didn't think they would be our weakness this year.

 

It's a good thing the NFL is full of mediocre teams.

[SWFLSkins]

5 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

That was so mind-glowingly bad it amazed even me, a guy who thinks little of Gruden's decision making to begin with. You're watching, realizing we are about to get a delay of game to help us out, and Jay bails them out. Astounding.

 

Kirk snapping the ball with time on the play clock is a coachable issue, if my game manager can't manage to run as much time off as possible, is he fit to be my manager? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I want to love Jay but at this point I just really like him.  The clock management stuff is damn near every week.  I just don't think it's possible to call the plays and still be ahead of the game strategy wise when it comes to timeouts and the like.

[skins island connection]

IMO, the real success of this team last year went to coach the Rams.

We lost our OC, Garcon, DJax, and the replacements are a WR who is basically in his rookie year and another WR who is more of a QB than a WR.

 

I mentioned Gruden's possible fubars earlier, hoping that coming off a bye he and this team would take care of business, even though the 9ers are a lot better than their record, it showed an absence of 2nd half adjustments, questionable time-outs, and once again being 'lost' in the moment, a problem he continues to have.

 

He's prob the best thing available out there, but if a good coach or OC becomes available, I'd sell, barring at least a 1st round win and good showing in divisional round game.  He doesn't have it in him to get this team focused and prepared on a weekly basis; it has to be a loss to a sorry team for him to get the picture, then after he does get them on the right track, he drifts right back into that gray area that he seems to thrive in.

 

I won't even get into the strength & conditioning coach Chad Englehart, that guy has to go Monday morning at the latest. Must be related to Gruden. Oh, wait, my bad, its the asst. S&C coach who is related. Deuce. With guys getting hurt every week, durability is taking a 'deuce' on this team.

[Diehard Otis]

30 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

Coming from someone who is on record as not wanting Jay in the first place, and has called for his firing every year since, including year one, I'm buying Jay. I'm starting to realize good head coaches are like quarterbacks. There aren't actually 32 on earth. At least Jay has some versatility and isn't completely horrible. That might be the HC version of "good".

I can get with this.

 

But most importantly, the man is a Winner.  If The Washington Redskins post a Winning Record (for the 3rd Year in a row), can we finally retire this should-he-stay-or-should-he-go stuff?  Sheesh.  This is reminiscent of a College Powerhouse Fanbase that screams for the Head Coach to be fired because they lose 2-3 games a year. *cough* LSU *cough*

 

Jay Gruden just Won a Home Game to get The Team back over .500 and his job is in question???
(some perspective - Baltimore just lost AT HOME to a 1 Win Chicago Bears team in Overtime!  At least Jay didn't do that)

 

Shouldn't we learn to live with the guy? 

 

So he isn't Joe Gibbs.  SO WHAT!!??  He Wins.  And unless you're hiding a Hall Of Fame Coach under your hat, Jay had earned the right to be our Head Coach.  He Wins & he WANTS to be here!

 

BUY.

 

 

[CaptainChaos47]

6 minutes ago, Diehard Otis said:

I can get with this.

 

But most importantly, the man is a Winner.  If The Washington Redskins post a Winning Record (for the 3rd Year in a row), can we finally retire this should-he-stay-or-should-he-go stuff?  Sheesh.  This is reminiscent of a College Powerhouse Fanbase that screams for the Head Coach to be fired because they lose 2-3 games a year. *cough* LSU *cough*

 

Jay Gruden just Won a Home Game to get The Team back over .500 and his job is in question???
(some perspective - Baltimore just lost AT HOME to a 1 Win Chicago Bears team in Overtime!  At least Jay didn't do that)

 

Shouldn't we learn to live with the guy? 

 

So he isn't Joe Gibbs.  SO WHAT!!??  He Wins.  And unless you're hiding a Hall Of Fame Coach under your hat, Jay had earned the right to be our Head Coach.  He Wins & he WANTS to be here!

 

BUY.

 

 

Thank you! Unless we flashback 5 years and Belichick and Brady become available I'm good with riding Gruden and Cousins ..I'll agree I was a little worried about the three runs and punt but if you throw and miss SF likely wins and Gruden wasn't responsible for the 7 points the officials gave the niners.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I’m selling hard. He isn’t the guy to make this team great. 

 

He routinely screws up the clock and gift wraps games for the other team such as the Chiefs game.  He constantly coaches scared and costs us games such as the Bengals game last year, just being content to take the longer FG than even bother trying to get closer. 

 

The team is rarely prepared to start games and usually awkwardly drifts thru the first half of games or the first quarter of the season. 

 

The teams repeatedly makes stupid mistakes and lose their composure as well. 

 

The only thing he could hang his hat on was the offense and even that always sputters out of the gate and this year seems pretty inconsistent thru 5 games so he doesn’t really even have that anymore. 

 

I don’t think he’s bad. But I don’t think he’s good either 

[50yrSKINSfan]

I have stated in the past that I am not a Gruden or Cousins fan because of the back breaking ints. KC seemed to throw at the worst of times. However, I am starting to think better of KC with his pulling the ball down and running for 1st downs instead of forcing the ball. He seems to be maturing as a game manager. I still am not a Gruden fan and this is why. In the KC game with approx 1 min to play and it being 3rd and 2 and having the ball on their 22, instead of picking up the 1st down he tries a jump ball to Dotson who has not made a great catch in the time he has ben here. He gave the ball back to KC with that dumb call. Today he did more stupid calls. End of 2nd, we have the niners on their heals and instead of trying to control the ball and clock he tries not 1 but 2 bombs, when KC was not in sinc, resulting in a turnover and loosing the momentum. He let the miners back in the game. I would sell him if I could as I do not see us winning any big games with him. He finally beat a decent team in the Raiders but then the next week it was back to the same old Gruden, blowing the game with his poor play calling and today he was lucky to get a win at home, with rest against a poor miners team. We should have beat them bad but not with Jay calling plays. He just does not get it. Very hard to root for him.

[Burgold]

The three runs didn't kill me. I would have liked third down to be a safe pass/run option, but I can live with the three runs. I don't understand Jays use of time outs to help out the opponents' offense.

[SWFLSkins]

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

The three runs didn't kill me. I would have liked third down to be a safe pass/run option, but I can live with the three runs. I don't understand Jays use of time outs to help out the opponents' offense.

 

I didn't like how many times he ran on first down with the box stuffed. Then to do it there with all eyes on, you could have thrown it at least once. Kirk in the short mid game was practically unstoppable. I just watch the clock game and smdh. I think Jay should coach youth basketball and learn the importance of watching the clock and using it to your benefit. 

And I feel ridiculous saying that, considering he is a highly paid Professional. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

The three runs didn't kill me. 

Yeah, I disagree with that complaint. You can't throw an incompletion to leave 1:30 for them to get the winning FG. 

 

What I would have liked to see was a bootleg. They were keying on the RB, obviously. So fake it to Perine into the left side, have everyone block that way, and then Cousins holds the ball and runs the other way. They likely go for the fake and KC trots for a first. If they sniff it out, Kirk drops on the ball, keeps the clock moving. Losing 5 yards is fairly irrelevant there.

[petedaddy]

my favorite Jay Gruden moment today was the hand off to Niles Paul - that was epic

[SWFLSkins]

15 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Yeah, I disagree with that complaint. You can't throw an incompletion to leave 1:30 for them to get the winning FG. 

 

What I would have liked to see was a bootleg. They were keying on the RB, obviously. So fake it to Perine into the left side, have everyone block that way, and then Cousins holds the ball and runs the other way. They likely go for the fake and KC trots for a first. If they sniff it out, Kirk drops on the ball, keeps the clock moving. Losing 5 yards is fairly irrelevant there.

You know Joe Gibbs had a knack for pulling some play out of his book to close a game out and nobody saw it coming. I still think a pass on first down, or second there could have worked, still had the third down to run anyway. I don't hate your idea, still much better than what I saw. 

[Warhead36]

Gruden is a good coach. Does he have his flaws? Of course, but so does every NFL coach. There is no perfect super genius except maybe Bellicheck I guess.

 

You can nitpick some of the play call choices, that's fine, but watch other games, coaches call dumb stuff all the time. Andy Reid STILL can't manage the clock just for example.

 

His offensive system clearly works. We barely have NFL caliber WRs or RBs(besides Thompson) and are still putting up over 20 points a game. The team has largely been prepared to play and play hard for him.

 

Gruden is a better then average NFL head coach.

[SWFLSkins]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Gruden is a good coach. Does he have his flaws? Of course, but so does every NFL coach. There is no perfect super genius except maybe Bellicheck I guess.

 

You can nitpick some of the play call choices, that's fine, but watch other games, coaches call dumb stuff all the time. Andy Reid STILL can't manage the clock just for example.

 

His offensive system clearly works. We barely have NFL caliber WRs or RBs(besides Thompson) and are still putting up over 20 points a game. The team has largely been prepared to play and play hard for him.

 

Gruden is a better then average NFL head coach.

 

Can't disagree with that, problem tho is just watching your team play good enough  or do you want to see them progress. Jay is not progressing, and now I think he may have too many stations to cover....maybe Callahan OC? next year. 

https://twitter.com/johnnylocal/status/919703339675406336

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, SWFLSkins said:

You know Joe Gibbs had a knack for pulling some play out of his book to close a game out and nobody saw it coming. I still think a pass on first down, or second there could have worked, still had the third down to run anyway. I don't hate your idea, still much better than what I saw. 

We got the ball when they had two timeouts left. Any incomplete would give them an extra 35 seconds. Doesn't matter what down you threw on.