Kilmer17 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I think Larry's point is the saddest. This is a case where people KNEW their was a potential killer. WARNED authorities about him, and STILL nothing happened. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Can’t be true. GOP bad. DEMS good Please stop acting like a dick we understand you are somehow offended about people placing the blame on the GOP but seriously grow the **** up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Yeah, I don’t need to see that. Yeah, I didn’t either. That’s why I didn’t bother linking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, AsburySkinsFan said: Not entirely helpful. I know you just had a heated exchange yesterday about this, but lets try and be productive. There is culpability on BOTH sides, and I give zero craps about playing the blame game, that’s the rules they play now. The rules need to change to “whoever gets it done wins!” I don’t care if it’s GOP or Dem. Just get it DONE! We have an accord. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Llevron said: What does it hurt getting rid of the AR-15? Why can't we start there and see what happens? Yeah I'd have no problem with that. The millions of people who own them aren't going to turn them in but if that gets the ball rolling then sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, Llevron said: What does it hurt getting rid of the AR-15? Why can't we start there and see what happens? The AR is just a style of firearm, it’s highly modular meaning that the parts are highly customizeable and interchangeable. If you outlaw the AR another modification will take its place. The key to it is semi-auto, high capacity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Even the assault weapon ban didnt stop Columbine. It's not enough. Those types of "solutions" are political trickery. They are feelgood measures that accomplish NOTHING. Comprehensive reform is needed. Not token gestures. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, redskinss said: Yeah I'd have no problem with that. The millions of people who own them aren't going to turn them in but if that gets the ball rolling then sure. 3 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: The AR is just a style of firearm, it’s highly modular meaning that the parts are highly customizeable and interchangeable. If you outlaw the AR another modification will take its place. The key to it is semi-auto, high capacity. Yea all I'm asking is if getting the ball rolling will hurt. I know it won't fix it. May do nothing at all. But we are so worried any change will lead to the end of the second amendment I think we need a start. If or when another mod takes the place if the AR then we address that as well. It is better than nothing, right? It may have zero effect. But we are at least giving ourselves a chance at change. We can reevaluate the effectiveness after some time passes and that in itself is something over nothing. I admit I don't have the best ideas here. I just want movement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Even the assault weapon ban didnt stop Columbine. It's not enough. Those types of "solutions" are political trickery. They are feelgood measures that accomplish NOTHING. Comprehensive reform is needed. Not token gestures. Agreed, Dylan -- Intratec TEC-DC9 (9-mm semi-automatic handgun) attached to a strap slung over his shoulder (under coat), Savage 311-D 12-gauge double-barrel shotgun (barrel sawed down to approximately 23 inches, initially half-hidden in Dylan's cargos).Eric -- 10-shot Hi-Point model 995 carbine rifle on a strap (under coat), Savage-Springfield 67H 12-gauge pump shotgun he called 'Arlene' (named after a Doom character - initially in one of the duffels carried to the top of the grassy knoll -- stock and barrel sawed off, reducing the entire gun to 26 inches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Even the assault weapon ban didnt stop Columbine. It's not enough. Those types of "solutions" are political trickery. They are feelgood measures that accomplish NOTHING. Comprehensive reform is needed. Not token gestures. We both know comprehensive reform is impossible at this stage. Why not start with the feel good and move forward. It's very much like my 350 pound ass making the excuse that walking on the treadmill 15 minutes a day will accomplish nothing. Probably. But you have to ****ing start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 And for the record Im just picking the AR out of a figurative hat. You could start with anything. But starting with comprehensive change sounds unrealistic to me. We cant even agree on background checks or not arming the mentally unstable. I mean, ****, they cant even agree on a budget. Money. And they love money. We could start with anything. I just picked the AR cause it was a topic of the last 3 pages. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Llevron said: We both know comprehensive reform is impossible at this stage. Why not start with the feel good and move forward. It's very much like my 350 pound ass making the excuse that walking on the treadmill 15 minutes a day will accomplish nothing. Probably. But you have to ****ing start. Yes but the danger is will the 15 minutes on the treadmill lead to more diet and exercise or will it be used as an excuse that you tried and failed and fall back into the same routine. Edited February 15, 2018 by redskinss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Llevron said: We both know comprehensive reform is impossible at this stage. Why not start with the feel good and move forward. It's very much like my 350 pound ass making the excuse that walking on the treadmill 15 minutes a day will accomplish nothing. Probably. But you have to ****ing start. Im honestly not trying to take this in a different direction, so if it comes across that way, realize it's not my intent. The problem with token gestures like a ban on ARs is that it allows the issue to be just another political play. The Dems can dig in their heels and if it passes, they can boast that they did something, while blaming the GOP for not passing a ban on ARs. That's crap. It accomplishes nothing but political gamesmanship. The GOP is NEVER going to do a damn thing about this. Never. But as of now, the Dems arent either. What was Hillary's platform on guns? Background checks? Loophole discussion? preventing people on the do not fly list from buying guns? All noble goals. And completely meaningless. The Dems position on guns is too far to the right of what is needed in our country. And until they start acting like the leftwing party, I am going to continue to lump them in with the other right wing party on the gun issue. Think of it another way. After Columbine, after Sandy Hook, after multiple members of Congress were shot, NOTHING HAPPENED! If the NRA and the GOP is that powerful. That after all of that. And after watching Obama issue hundreds of Executive Orders on every other damn issue. If we STILL cant get any real change on guns? Then saddle up and lets just shoot the crap out of each other until we whittle the population down to a manageable number. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 30 minutes ago, Springfield said: There’s a video on live leak that’s got dead bodies. 29 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Yeah, I don’t need to see that. Well, Benning wants you to see it, don't forget. After all, that's the way these things can be stopped. Dead bodies, in your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 For those trying to figure out the AR issue here is a primer. The silver (aluminum) part of this rifle is the definitive piece. It’s what the government considers the “gun”. EVERY other piece is generic and interchangeable. (think PC computer parts for those geek inclined) To advance this problem....this is considered an “80% lower receiver”. ANY and I mean ANYONE can buy one of these pieces of aluminum and turn it into the piece like the one above. No background check No criminal history No registration But tbe milling must be very difficult and specialized right? Think again. https://ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner For $1600 you can buy an automatic lower receiver mill to “finish” the 80% block into the piece above. $500-ish worth of parts and you have a legally aquired, home built, untraceable, serial number free AR. Now, who wants to start? Are we finally beginning to cone to terms with just how much legislation will be required? This will be hard...very hard. Even IF the NRA was removed from the equation this will be extremely difficult and challenging. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said: Well, Benning wants you to see it, don't forget. After all, that's the way these things can be stopped. Dead bodies, in your face. I’ve been brought to tears five times watching the interviews with these kids. Hearing about the coach who was shot protecting kids. Hearing parents struggle to find their kids, getting texts as they hide in janitor closets. Watching videos of bullets ripping through a clasroom full of kids. Paniced kids scared to death as SWAT teams clear the room. My wife and I discussed this at length yesterday, and we showed those videos to our kids and we had a very REAL discussion about what to do and not do. I NEVER would have imagined that I’d have to have THAT talk with my children. Edited February 15, 2018 by AsburySkinsFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, DogofWar1 said: This is where CDC studies would do a lot of good. Not every mental illness is going to show a causal link to violence/gun violence, but some definitely will. A lot of abusers have depression and substance abuse issues. That doesn't mean that everyone with depression or who abuses substances should be barred from owning a gun, but I know there are certain markers that can likely be found within subsets of depression and/or substance abuse that would suggest a person being at risk of committing violence. Getting the CDC back in here and doing major studies will really help pinpoint exactly which issues need to raise concern and which likely don't, because we know just about everyone who commits a mass shooting isn't right in the head in some way, but knowing exactly which way, without creating excessive amounts of false positives, will be crucial to success. I agree with this. I believe that general path towards violence with a combination of mental illness is a disaster waiting to happen. I'm uncomfortable looking at it from the "what diseases to watch out for" standpoint, because so many don't directly cause violence. But I'd love to leave that research up to some professionals to see what correlations are the most dangerous and common among these mass shooters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Im honestly not trying to take this in a different direction, so if it comes across that way, realize it's not my intent. The problem with token gestures like a ban on ARs is that it allows the issue to be just another political play. The Dems can dig in their heels and if it passes, they can boast that they did something, while blaming the GOP for not passing a ban on ARs. That's crap. It accomplishes nothing but political gamesmanship. The GOP is NEVER going to do a damn thing about this. Never. But as of now, the Dems arent either. What was Hillary's platform on guns? Background checks? Loophole discussion? preventing people on the do not fly list from buying guns? All noble goals. And completely meaningless. The Dems position on guns is too far to the right of what is needed in our country. And until they start acting like the leftwing party, I am going to continue to lump them in with the other right wing party on the gun issue. Think of it another way. After Columbine, after Sandy Hook, after multiple members of Congress were shot, NOTHING HAPPENED! If the NRA and the GOP is that powerful. That after all of that. And after watching Obama issue hundreds of Executive Orders on every other damn issue. If we STILL cant get any real change on guns? Then saddle up and lets just shoot the crap out of each other until we whittle the population down to a manageable number. Naw I totally get where you are coming from here. It is moving the conversation but I do think the politics in this has become more important than peoples lives (unfortunately). Im not saying you or politicians but for regular Joe blow people its about Repubs v Dems so it is what it is. I honestly dont think we will ever get past the political nature of this thing. That sucks but it can be worked around. Like it is understood and expected that the Dems will blame the Repubs for **** in ways that isnt at all helpful. The reverse is true as well. Which is why I dont understand why you actually think comprehensive reform is needed or even possible. Unless you mean taking ALL money out of politics. That would be a wonderful start. But I dont think thats what you mean. I dont know man. Im struggling for an answer here. There seems to be nothing that can be done that both parties will accept as even a FIRST STEP. let alone anything that will actually change anything. Im staring to understand that "Thoughts and Prayers" is all we can do for people because no one with any power will do anything else. Edited February 15, 2018 by Llevron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, redskinss said: Yes but the danger is will the 15 minutes on the treadmill lead to more diet and exercise or will it be used as an excuse that you tried and failed and fall back into the same routine. Either can happen. Or nothing can and we stay at 350. Sounds like we are more afraid of what happens if we start changing gun laws than what happens if we dont. Thats sad to me. Edited February 15, 2018 by Llevron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Llevron said: Naw I totally get where you are coming from here. It is moving the conversation but I do think the politics in this has become more important than peoples lives (unfortunately). Im not saying you or politicians but for regular Joe blow people its about Repubs v Dems so it is what it is. I honestly dont think we will ever get past the political nature of this thing. That sucks but it can be worked around. Like it is understood and expected that the Dems will blame the Repubs for **** in ways that isnt at all helpful. The reverse is true as well. Which is why I dont understand why you actually think comprehensive reform is needed. Unless you mean taking ALL money out of politics. That would be a wonderful start. But I dont think thats what you mean. I dont know man. Im struggling for an answer here. There seems to be nothing that can be done that both parties will accept as even a FIRST STEP. let alone anything that will actually change anything. Im staring to understand that "Thoughts and Prayers" is all we can do for people because no one with any power will do anything else. I get the idea behind a "first step". I just dont believe that the first step will accomplish anything, and that everyone involved will slap themselves on the back and wont take the next few steps that would actually help. Want to ban assault rifles? Sure. I have no problem with that. But I want to ban any gun that can hold more than 1 round. Show me a politician that is willing to take THAT stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 8 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said: A concealed weapons permit training is NOT sufficient for what you’re asking for. You say that you’re not talking about handing them a handgun and saying good luck, but what are you suggesting? Who’s goung to pay for it? Did you see the recent POTUS budget? Our governor just slashed education and counties around us are closing schools because of it. And yet you want some sort of Teacher SWAT team. Get real. When people who share your views talk like this all it makes people on the other side want to do is double down on their views. If you want to have legit conversations and find meaningful solutions you need to understand that this is a very complex problem that can’t just be legislated away at this point. All I keep hearing is we just need to do something no matter how small. We just need to get our foot in the door...but what you really mean is legislate more gun laws that won’t be followed or obeyed anyhow, and damn near impossible to enforce. When Sacks and Stuff states that he GOP has decided that their NRA funding is more important than a few more dead kids it’s counter productive. Demonizing my side is not going to get us anywhere. You would think that would be obvious by now. I’m an NRA life member and the father of three. I want them safe also, but I also realize this problem is going to be a lot harder to solve than a few additonal window dressing gun laws. Let the insults fly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 If true, can we at least tackle the gun show/private sale loophole first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said: If true, can we at least tackle the gun show/private sale loophole first? Dont tackle the loophole. Ban gun shows. Ban the private sale of guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Dont tackle the loophole. Ban gun shows. Ban the private sale of guns. Tbh, I'm right there with you Kilmer. But I suspect incremental change is the only change in the US that can be achieved when it comes to guns. America is a gun. Edited February 15, 2018 by The Evil Genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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